[Closed] Posh and Posher: Why Public School Boys Run Britain

networking isnt an Old Boys network though is it?

The "old boys network" these days is no more than a construct of envy. A fabricated excuse.

That's quite a defence there stoner, all that came out when I don't seem to remember criticizing the "posh" universities, or all the graduates. I was actually putting the point across that it wasn't where they went to get educated that mattered, it's what they did when they got there and beyond.

You called it a load of "hooey", but then admit it does happen citing Cameron/Osborne. Considering that everyone "networks", do you not think that the future politicians and future business leaders who sat the political and economics courses did not network with each other?

Networking is pretty much everything. Look at the Labour party head honchos. They all fit the same mould. Right uni, right course, right start in the political machine etc. Networking is crucial in business too. Your personal contacts are vital to success.

I'm agreeing with 5th elefant( 😯 ).

hence teh oxbridge elite in politics

deleted incredibly witty but slightly offensive remark.

TJ. Yes I agree.

But its not because he WENT to oxford or cambridge.

I said in my OP, relationships are always there. political links and families. Im not naive, I think you and Ernie have jumped a bit to quickly.

What I said was that success by an oxbridge graduate is NOT primarily down to an Old Boy Network.

Your personal contacts are vital to success.

Sroner - so Osbournes is there because he knew Cameron at Uni but

But its not because he WENT to oxford or cambridge.

Want to borrow a shovel?

TJ - for someone who apparently "had the academic achievements to go to Cambridge" you're displaying more the intellectual level of someone who could have gone to Oxford. 🙄

There are opportunities everywhere to better yourself.
If you choose not to yourself, don't ctiticize those who do.

not sure anyone is really just pointing out that those opportunities you speak of are vastly more open to those at the top of the economic scale than those at the bottom.

hey Stoner can you answer the question I posed?

surely the Old Boys network is directly related to the fee paying school you went too or have I missed something? Isnt theat what the words mean?

The Old Boy network exists, Daddy is MD in company X and will either provide a job for sonny's friend or the opportunity to get the job

I sincerely doubt that's anything like as prevalent as the Guardian would have you believe. certainly no more likely than a shop steward getting his pals son on the shift is it?

[s]a_a which one?[/s]

edit: that one. hang on

you said:

how an education is paid for is irrelevant to the existence or not of an old boys network.

I said:

surely the Old Boys network is directly related to the fee paying school you went too or have I missed something? Isnt theat what the words mean?

I sincerely doubt that's anything like as prevalent as the Guardian would have you believe. certainly no more likely than a shop steward getting his pals son on the shift is it?

a_a: yes Old Boys Network comes from old school relationships. And it's so out of date it's laughable.

To try and use it seriously in an argument is akin to using the word "toff". A nostalgic construction used lazily without really thinking whether it's even remotely relevant or contemporary. Trying desperately to emotionalise something far more mundane.

In real life, most "old boys" couldnt give a monkeys about their alma mater or others that come from it. Thats not the same as using friendships that have endured from school - afterall would you not help an old school friend out, whether you went to Eton or Scum Comp?

The "Old boy network" implied that you could waggle your old school tie and get a leg up from an unknown, older alumni, regardless of your personal relationship with them. I can think of no occasion that that could have happened in my experience.

right OK, it doesnt exist because you said it doesnt despite all the evidence to the contrary, I'll ask again have you watched the programme linked to at the top of the thread?

I can think of no occasion that that could have happened in my experience.

Clearly you are the arbiter of fact. If it hasnt happend to you it doesnt happen!!

If there was a national boarding grammer school where only the brightest students from the state system could apply and was manned by the best teachers and was run by an inspirational head,with ties into industry, commerce and politics(at a high level).

Would the exstudents have a chance ?

Should be in with a chance getting to the top uni's
but how would they fair from afterwards

Stoner - still digging? Cameron and Osbourne are an obvious example that you admit is true of the "old boys network" in action.

Its real. it happens today.

then where's your corollary?

Who's had a leg up at your work from an old school contact?

TJ - define "Old Boy Network" for me.

The "Old boy network" implied that you could waggle your old school tie and get a leg up. I can think of no occasion that that could have happened in my experience.

A regular question on introductions was an enquiry to which school you went to, from that point on the future of the relationship is determined.
Friends got jobs for and from friends' families.

It isn't as base as flashing the tie, it's networking but you are deluded if you say it doesn't exist.

Who's had a leg up at your work from an old school contact?

Dont know I aint in any Old Boys network, I didnt go to a fee paying school, which is what the word means.

Not sure North Bromsgrove High Old Boys exists, it would have girls in if it fdid though so that may just discount it.

Oxford dictionary:

an informal system through which men are thought to use their positions of influence to help others who went to the same school or university as they did , or who share a similar social background.

wiki:

An old boy network, or society, can refer to social and business connections among former pupils of male-only private schools.

don "A regular question on introductions"

job interviews?

Be daft if they didnt ask which school you went to.

What do you think the odds are of coming across someone interviewing you from your old school by chance?

Dont know I aint in any Old Boys network

So in spite of having no experience of it, you think it's rife?

networking isnt an Old Boys network though is it?

men are thought to

OED not known for being flippant with their use of words.

job interviews?

No, social. Most people were known by name and school. I'm not saying it's wrong, I'm saying it exists.

So even in the definitions there's no claim of widespread nepotism.

The vernacular implies nothing more than the kind of networking relationships cultivated at any comprehensive school, red brick university, shop floor, sunday league football club, church congregation, masonic lodge or sewing circle.

I'm saying it exists

spain or UK?

UK? who on earth asks which school you went to in social conversations?

Nepotism? Old Boys Network? Step on the ladder?

Sorry chaps, thought you were talking about these two:

[img] [/img]

The "Old boy network" implied that you could waggle your old school tie and get a leg up from an unknown, older alumni, regardless of your personal relationship with them. I can think of no occasion that that could have happened in my experience.

Well the Global Forum on Public Governance, run by the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD) reckons it certainly exists between the banks and the government :

[url= http://scotlandonsunday.scotsman.com/latestnews/Study-reveals-true-extent-of.5230278.jp ]Study reveals true extent of 'old boys network' between Government and banks[/url]

[i]"Britain has a greater culture of cronyism than Europe or the US, according to the study, which identified key individuals who have moved jobs between politics, financial institutions and the bodies charged with regulating the banking industry."[/i]

Is the OECD also plagued by socialist/left-wing envy ?

But of course you didn't mean [i]that[/i] did you Stoner ?

The "Old boy network" implied that you could waggle your old school tie and get a leg up [u]from an unknown, older alumni, regardless of your personal relationship with them.[/u] I can think of no occasion that that could have happened in my experience.

Have I spied a crafty edit?

So in spite of having no experience of it, you think it's rife?

Well as said at the risk of getting repetitive the programme linked to at the top of the thread had lots of people from, at and working in fee paying schools who seemed convinnced it exists. I have never been to or worked in or even visited the grounds of a fee paying school so wouldnt know.

I have seen ex PhD students of ex PhD students of get jobs with certain people myself included. Thats networking and different from an old boys network (although not much different). The key difference is the fact that I (or my mum) didnt have to pay to get into that network

TJ - for someone who apparently "had the academic achievements to go to Cambridge" you're displaying more the intellectual level of someone who could have gone to Oxford.

Is this some sort of Toffs' in-joke that I don't understand to to my scrotey plebesence?

Old Boys Network comes from old school relationships. And it's so out of date it's laughable.

You keep believing what your Tory heroes keep telling you eh Stoner?

Ha ha! You once tried to convince us you weren't a staunch Tory supporter. What a joke. Not that you had anyone fooled, you little Thatcherite you!

See, the Tories see people like you as very useful; they pull the wool over your eyes, convince you there's something in it for you, indeed may even throw you a few scraps to make you believe, then once they're done with you, will discard you like yesterday's rubbish. Meanwhile, they'll use the power you've given them, through your deluded sycophancy, to shaft everyone, and leave a right mess for everyone else to clear up. They'll be lording it up in secure gated mansions, while you try to avoid getting mugged on your way home from work. You're just a resource to be exploited and used as they see fit, nothing more.

Do you truly believe [i]all[/i] those who come through the Eton/Oxbridge style system are truly there purely on merit? Course they're not. Some are, but many are there simply because of the wealth of their families. I dare say a nice contribution to a new sports field or science lab goes quote a long way in getting you child accepted at such places...

Interesting how any mention of the fact that the education system is weighted in favour of those with money, provokes responses from people believing this heralds a call for the destruction of high quality education. No-one's actually mentioned scrapping private education, just that in a fairer and more just society, there would be little need for it. None of the little Tory Boys have bothered to offer any idea how the inequalities and discrepancies in the education system are actually going to be tackled and resolved. Perhaps cos the Tories have absolutely no intention of ever doing so; keep the proles in intellectual darkness, and they will pose little threat to the institutionalised power of the privileged few.

The other thing that program touched on was the 'special advisor' entry to politics, and the politics degree at oxford. Common to all parties.

I'd much rather someone worked their way up through a proper job, then into the union and eventually an MP. Equally I'd be very happy for the eton old boys to work in any job (even banking) for 30 years before becoming an MP. The professional politician - someone who only knows about politics? Politics is the least useful qualification for a politician. They should actually be able to do something useful, or at least be successful at something other than being a backstabbing, lying git.

UK? who on earth asks which school you went to in social conversations?

who on earth asks which school you went to in social conversations?

When I worked at Newcastle Uni and taught on a very "posh" agriculture course I was asked loads of times, one of those doing the asking was the Duke of Northumberlands son who I believe is quite well off and may have gone to a fee paying school.

The OECD didnt use the phrase "old Boys Network" in their release to describe the very mundane act of cronyism now did they. That was the scotsman. And they very kindly did it in "quotes". How sweetly leftist 🙂

And since when was cronyism the sole preserve of Eton's alumni?

And since when was cronyism the sole preserve of Eton's alumni?

so it does exist amongst the Eton Old Boys? Your confusing me now

TJ, given that you had the academic excellence required and have an obvious affinity for making your point, did you ever consider trying to enter politics ?

honest question and not an 'attack'

I was being facetious a_a

Ernie is confusing evidence of cronyism with evidence of a right wing public school conspiracy 🙂

When I worked at Newcastle Uni and taught on a very "posh" agriculture course I was asked loads of times, one of those doing the asking was the Duke of Northumberlands son who I believe is quite well off and may have gone to a fee paying school.

and just which life advantages did you (and don simon) subsequently miss out on for not saying "Harrow"?

Elfinsafety - Member

None of the little Tory Boys have bothered to offer any idea how the inequalities and discrepancies in the education system are actually going to be tackled and resolved.

I don't recall any significant effort by the Labour Party to make radical changes to education when they had an overwhelming Parliamentary majority....

I'd much rather someone worked their way up through a proper job, then into the union and eventually an MP.

+1. [b]Elfinism[/b] would see those who have worked their way up through an industry or service in positions of authority over matters relating to them. Like, a former train driver in charge of transport, not some chinless wonder who's only knowledge of such things is to say 'Home James'.

But then, putting workers in charge of the factories might see reduced profits for the factory bosses, and a greater distribution of the profits/rewards amongst all the workforces.. Which is probbly why we're stuck with the system we have now. The ruling elite don't want others to enjoy the wealth and privilege they have become accustomed to, and rigorously defend their positions through the manipulation of institutions such as Law and Order, Education, Healthcare etc. Keep all the best stuff for yourself, just throw the proles a few scraps now and then, and they'll be subservient and grateful, and willing to do your bidding.