And since when was cronyism the sole preserve of Eton's alumni?
Not at all Stoner. But only a deluded person would believe that there was no "Old boy network" between bankers, politicians, etc, who were formerly pupils of Eton.
and just which life advantages did you (and don simon) subsequently miss out on for not saying "Harrow"?
Dont know.
I expect in the case of those students they were trying to asses if I was worth listening to or not.
So why were all these people from Eton, former Eton Old Boys and people working at Eton convinced it exists and was. is or will be helpful?
(and don simon) subsequently miss out on for not saying "Harrow"?
Have I said it's wrong? Have I said I'm jealous? Have I done anything except say it exists in the face of your denial? Have I missed out? Who knows?
But then, putting workers in charge of the factories might see reduced profits for the factory bosses, and a greater distribution of the profits/rewards amongst all the workforces.
The people who make it to the top look after themselves, and their network, not the people they trampled on to get there. But, yeah, if they at least knew what they were doing it would be a good start.
[i]But only a deluded person would believe that there was no "Old boy network" between bankers, politicians, etc, who were formerly[/i]
pupils of Eton,
pupils of Tower Hamlets Comprehensive,
Burlington Squash club,
Thursday night drinking crow in the Dog and Duck, Balham South
etc
etc
you get my point.
If you (or TJ etc) [i]assume[/i] that much cronyism is to down to public schools it's clear signs of a prejudice.
I was being facetious a_a
I keep forgetting to use this when I trip up. Thanks for the reminder.
But only a deluded person would believe that there was no "Old boy network" between bankers, politicians, etc, who were formerly
pupils of Eton,
pupils of Tower Hamlets Comprehensive,
Burlington Squash club,
Thursday night drinking crow in the Dog and Duck, Balham South
etc
etcyou get my point.
no, but then you clearly dont get mine either
I keep forgetting to use this when I trip up.
Surely as one who never trips up, this [s]excuse[/s] will be surplus to one's requirements?
I keep forgetting to use this when I trip up.
I blame uneven wooden floors.
TJ et al, is it OK to have an unfair advantage when that is gained a la Kinnock? Or is it only those who went to that well known Slough Comp that are using an unfair advantage? You seem to have glossed over that example.
Or, is it that inverse snobbery and prejudice is acceptable in your happy little utopia?
Thursday night drinking crow in the Dog and Duck, Balham Southyou get my point.
Yes I get your point, and it is absurd. Having connections with people who drank at the Dog and Duck in Balham on a Thursday night, will not give power, privilege, and influence, in any meaningful way. Having been a former pupil of Eton will.
Why do you think people spend vast amounts of money to send their sons to Eton, when all they have to do is send them down the Dog and Duck on a Thursday night ?
because it's Youngs beer.
TJ et al, is it OK to have an unfair advantage when that is gained a la Kinnock? Or is it only those who went to that well known Slough Comp that are using an unfair advantage? You seem to have glossed over that example.Or, is it that inverse snobbery and prejudice is acceptable in your happy little utopia?
No its the same and the Islington set of Blair et al is the same and seems to be continued today. Having said that I know very little about Kinnock. The probelm as I see it is that power in this country is not controlled by a group that are even close to being represntative of the population in terms of economic background and this applies to all the main parties.
Just for a bit of balance.... My wee brother went to the same (good) comprehensive that I did and went on to win a scholarship for Cambridge, where he gained a good degree. He's now pursuing further studies in the US.
My point is that if you're a brainbox, your background may be irrelevant, if you're lucky enough to have pushy and caring teachers / parents. Many fee paying schools also have scholarship schemes.
It's still a long way from ideal, granted; Cambridge highly recommend that their students do not take on part time jobs, so spending money is expected to come from the parents - mine worked several years past their expected retirement to fund my bro's education. But it can be done.
Elfinism would see those who have worked their way up through an industry or service in positions of authority over matters relating to them. Like, a former train driver in charge of transport, not some chinless wonder who's only knowledge of such things is to say 'Home James'.
What does a train driver necessarily know about running a railway, let alone about wider transport issues? I can understand that input from train drivers could form a part of any transport decision making process, but I can't see that having driven a train necessarily makes one best placed to make the decisions.
2 rational posts in a row? Shome mishtake shurely!
because it's Youngs beer.
The facetious faeces is flying thick and fast tonight Stoner 🙂
I blame uneven wooden floors.
*runs off to check liability insurance policy*
but dont you see that's it's inevitable a_a?
To be "in power" requires a machine to get you there. Whether it's based around the TUC, Notting Hill, the Fabian Society or the CBI.
Have any of the downtrodden masses here ever tried to enter the areas they regard as the exclusive domain of the 'toffs' and been refused because of their social status....
To be "in power" requires a machine to get you there. Whether it's based around the TUC, Notting Hill, the Fabian Society or the CBI.
Or the Communist Party, those well know champions of social equality. Well, for some anyway....
but dont you see that's it's inevitable a_a?
right really confused now, is this you being facetious again or have I chamged you mind and its gone from non existant to inevitable?
What does a train driver necessarily know about running a railway, let alone about wider transport issues? I can understand that input from train drivers could form a part of any transport decision making process, but I can't see that having driven a train necessarily makes one best placed to make the decisions.
They'd have a better idea than someone with a PPE degree from Oxford who has never actually been on a train or a bus.
no, a_a
Im referring to all interest groups managing the democratic landscape.
it has nothing to do with an "old Boys Network".
Ah - so its just "the natural order" is it now stoner. We need to bow down to our lords and masters and just accept the crumbs for their table?
eh TJ?
try and keep up if you're going to join in.
Have any of the downtrodden masses here ever tried to enter the areas they regard as the exclusive domain of the 'toffs' and been refused because of their social status....
Yeah, and it pissed me right off.
Mind you, I never really wanted to go in ...........and I guess that if I'm honest, they [i]did[/i] have a point.
Im dying to know which St James club refused Ernie 🙂
They'd have a better idea than someone with a PPE degree from Oxford who's never actually been on a train.
Transport policy is more than just trains - I'd want someone in charge of transport who is capable of absorbing and processing a great deal of information from a large number of sources and then using that information to formulate policy.
I really should invite Ernie to lunch at my club sometime. Would be most amusing to see him have to put on a tie.... 😉
Transport policy is more than just trains - I'd want someone in charge of transport who is capable of absorbing and processing a great deal of information from a large number of sources and then using that information to formulate policy.
Fair enough. That would rule out a professional politician though.
this argument is surely more about the social divide and the infrastructure that ensures that the gap remains in place..
accusations of inverted snobbery and prejudice may well fall on deaf ears as that gap provides a very effective barrier for empathy..
A professional politician is ONLY employable outside of westminster BECAUSE of cronyism* and the expectation of influence.
*note to TJ & Ernie: Cronyism =/ Eton Alumni, just for the avoidance of any doubt....
accusations of inverted snobbery and prejudice may well fall on deaf ears as that gap provides a very effective barrier for empathy.
Long may it survive. It's the only reason these arguments on STW can be counted on to while away a dull night on saturday TV...
Stoner - Memberbut dont you see that's it's inevitable a_a?
TandemJeremy - MemberAh - so its just "the natural order" is it now stoner. We need to bow down to our lords and masters and just accept the crumbs for their table?
I really think you do need a shovel - or is it a lifebelt by now
You keep contradicting yourself adn coming up with ever more ludicrous arguements.
Would be most amusing to see him have to put on a tie
Wouldn't be a wise move........the choking effect it's likely to cause, would probably make me gob on their carpet.
The accusation of inverted snobbery - politics of envy etc- gets mentioned whenever anyone complains about the lack of a meritocracy in this country. it is almost always made by people who support/defend this iniquity to people who have very little interest in joing the other group and want only for fairness to prevail.
TJ, you're foaming again.
How do you get to :
"We need to bow down to our lords and masters and just accept the crumbs for their table?"
from me saying "that [it's inevitable that] interest groups influence the political landscape?"
my club
No...it's just too easy.
I am coming round more and more to the idea that Ernie and CFH are actually the same person - and is called Charles Pooter
Stoner - your argument now seen me to be that its inevitable that the old boys network of public school educated rule the country, we can do nothing about it thus we merely have to accept it
Your comparison of the bullingdon club and its like and the tuc is laughable - whoo holds the reins of power?
I think this is a new high for STW - I have never seen such floundering
*cue personal attack on me - again*
it is almost always made by people who support/defend this iniquity
there's a word for that sort of person..
yo rarguemnet now seenms to be that its inevitable that teh old boyuys network of public school educated rule the country, we can do nothing about it thus we merely have to accept it
errrr, no.
You know it's no fun arguing with someone who invents one's own posts.
I could bore everyone else for your benefit by quoting the posts I made about "inevitability" and to what I was applying it, but you can get off your lazy arse and go read them yourself rather than make shit up again,
Play nicely (old) boys.
Direct quote from you in context Stoner
so its not inevitable then that the old boys network grab the power and the wealth?
So far you have tries to argue that the old boys network does not exist
That it exists but is everywhere including down the pub and in the unions
That its inevitable and we must accept it
That its not inevitable?
Stoner - seen earlier today
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I shall just leave you to wibble away in your own brand of illogic.