[Closed] Patient confidentiality- opticians.

I’d be having a word with the manager, if it was me; that is unacceptable and I’m pretty certain it contravenes patient/customer confidentiality.

Eh? Sounds like you’ve invented something to be outraged about.

A) she’s your wife
B) it’s your lens details, not your PIN code
C) they did your wife a favour, presumably because she asked

I'm erring that way too, but Mrs A won't let me go in in person. She knows me well and is worried that I'll make a big fuss/ scene.

im sorry, they told her what exactly?

that another customer, one she knows, opted for thin lenses?
or your prescription
or that you dont really need glasses you are in fact clark kent

get yourself in there and demand rectification of this awful situation. looking forward to the report.

Actually yes, that is a breach. A friend is an ex optician, ex because he got sick of not being able to report folk to the DVLA because of confidentiality issues.

I think you’d be best relaxing and just letting it go - she is your wife and not your neighbour

I’m with the OP on this. Doesn’t matter who it is, you cannot divulge information like that to a third party. Gross misconduct with my employer.

Not sure I’d go storming in, but it’s definitely unacceptable and I’d be putting that point across.

A friend is an ex optician, ex because he got sick of not being able to report folk to the DVLA because of confidentiality issues.

The must be more to the "story" than just this?

They told her what lens type I had opted for. Not my prescription. Nor my secret agent past.

I'm annoyed that they divulged this to another person without asking me first. I don't mind her knowing in the slightest, but I'm annoyed that the optician's feel that they can divulge in this way.

Wow.

Must be the time of year.

Or Brexit.

Yep - Brexit.

Clear breach of confidentiality worth a serious disciplinary and almost certainly illegal under the data protection act. I'd be furious and would be making a formal complaint and would want folkj disciplined ( but not sacked)

If I did something similar in my job I would be in big trouble

Opticians can refer to the DVLA (via the police I believe)....the police are exempt from having to gain consent to notify the DVLA directly...i know because the police did it to me based on a non driving issue but incorrect info my useless employer supplied to them when they thought I'd gone AWOL at work.

Basically if the police feel it's in the public interest, a safeguarding issue or a safety for other road users issue then they can approach the DVLA without you knowing about it until you get the letter threatening to revoke your licence....and then they will collude to avoid telling you who initially supplied them the info they're acting on...i had to lodge a complaint with the IPCC in order to get them to divulge that my employer had duff information on my medical history....all fun and games until you realise your job, your independence, your social life and your relationship are under threat because of losing your licence....managed to get my GP to back me up and head off the police and DVLA but my employer is still being a dick about the nonsense on the 'medical' file they hold on me....never mind, I now have a solicitor and I'm in the process of suing them, it's not like the NHS needs the money is it!?...you think they'd just admit their mistake and apologise instead of paying out but no, in true public sector fashion they're digging in and will end up handing over a lot of money to me instead....the police effectively threw them under the bus....can't wait.

@Scotroutes

What are you going on about?

tj- like you, I'd be having an uncomfortable meeting with my line manager if I did something similar too.

I wouldn't just be having an uncomfortable meeting. I would be disciplined and sanctioned.

OP,

Do you stick to the speed limits when driving?

All else is just fluff. 🙂

They havent divulged any personal data have they - which would be a breach of the data protection act.

What they have done is tell your wife what off the shelf product you have bought.

They have divulged p[ersonal data without consent - and if any of the data is stored on computer or even if in some cases it is not any release of any personal information without consent is a breach of the data protection act

There is of course no way your wife could have told what type lenses you had bought otherwise.

Unless of course she looked at you.

Yeah as above, personal information is address, DOB etc maybe at a stretch your prescription but saying broadly what product you opted for is not really personal is it?

Also what are you hiding from your wife that means she cant possibly know the thickness of your lenses? 😆

If you walked into a bike shop and were chatting to someone and said "my mate steve was in the other day and bought a specialized enduro not sure which one though it was green" and they said "oh yeah it was one of these *points*" would you start shouting at them for breaching the data protection act despite the fact you had already clearly seen steves bike and it was not a secret?

How cross would you be if you asked your wife to pop in and find out if you'd ordered nikon or zeiss lenses and they said, sorry, your husband will have to come in and ask for himself!

TJ - I think it's a stretch as it is not personal - you can't determine anything personal from that particular product choice.

Was it a Boots optician OP? If so, complain. You may get some extra Advantage points or what ever they are. 🙂

A friend is an ex optician, ex because he got sick of not being able to report folk to the DVLA because of confidentiality issues.

He was badly misinformed then.

Opticians can report directly to the DVLA if someone is unfit to drive but continues to do so in spite of the opticians advice.

They don’t need to go via the police either.

It is most definitely a breach of the Data Protection Act. Medical data is actually classified as Sensitive Personal Data and release of it in the fashion you describe would be a breach of the act.

If you believe a company has breached the act, you should report them to the Information Commissioners Office. Their website has a process for doing this.

If you look at their report for who they have fined and why, you'll see large and small businesses.

Words fail me....

They told her what lens type I had opted for. Not my prescription.

Surely anyone could tell you had very thin lens by standing next to you and looking at your glasses?

Are you really upset by this?

I take it both you and the Mrs are regulars there?

Has your wife given permission for you to disclose to STW and the whole worldwide webesphere that she will be wearing contact lenses?

Did you say something about a glasses prescription that your wife now knows about or am I missing something?
Not the docs & a STD? Or worse.

Mountains & molehills.

& yes, I do agree that patient confidentiality is vital but, It's your eye prescription FFS!

Mountain and mole hill spring to mind here.

I must be wired differently but I honestly do not think I would give a toss and neither would the missus.

They told your wife about your lens prescription; not your next door neighbour you have herpes.

Life is too short to get annoyed by such trivial matters.

Yes its personal info as it is info belonging to the person. Personal info in that sense.

I work in healthcare. Any information about a person must be kept confidential. You can only use information given to you for the purposes it was given and you cannot divulge information without the persons consent.

I have had 3 organisations including the nurses regulatory body censured by the information commissioner for similar sorts of things.

A bike shop does not have the same duty of care.

It is most definitely a breach of the Data Protection Act. Medical data is actually classified as Sensitive Personal Data

Thick or thin lenses is [i]sensitive[/i] medical data?

It isnt even medical data, let alone sensitive.

It is a product you chose to buy instead of another alternative.

Also you are livid about an opticians telling your wife but are happy to tell a bunch of internet strangers what kind of lenses you have?

To those saying it wasn't personal information disclosed, the fact they confirmed that you were even there is not on. All sorts of guidelines about this sort of thing and abusive relationships etc. They could get themselves into a lot of trouble for doing so. Whether or not this was applicable to the OP's personal circumstances doesn't matter, the opticians didn't know that.

This must be a wind up from the OP. People dying of violence and malnutrition in Syria and there's outrage because the wife knows what kind of glasses you wear!

Was it actually your prescription or just xyz brand of lens?

I'm struggling to see how brand of lens etc is confidential. Medical prescription yes but I'm getting the impression that wasn't what was shared. As per the analogy above if sweamrs was in my lbs and they said "sweaman2 has gone for the minions again this spring" then no issue.

If the lbs said "and here's the invoice" minor issue depending on the couple.

Optician = medical professional so cannot release info to anyone
Dirksdiggler yes that can be a problem, relatives get annoyed when we can’t give out info.
I seem to remember a case a few years ago where a wife phoned to enquire about her husbands dental appointment to be told he hadn’t been seen in ages. Turns out he had told her of quite a few appointments when he was actually having an affair. He successfully sued the dentist.....

This must be a wind up from the OP.

Has to be, but how do people think up such wind ups?

Its different for medical professionals to a bike shop.

Its a serious breach of confidentiality with minor consequences in this case.

How is disclosing someone was in an opticians personal data? Genuinely curious as lots of people could see someone enter / exit.

Because its data that belongs to the patient and in law cannot be disclosed to anyone else without the patients consent

http://guidance.college-optometrists.org/guidance-contents/communication-partnership-and-teamwork-domain/confidentiality/

In other circumstances, you should not disclose any clinical, personal or non-clinical information about a patient to a third party, even if that person says they are family or a close friend. This is because it might harm the patient if you divulge the information, for example, if the patient is a victim of abuse. This includes the patient’s:

name
contact details
personal circumstances, and
any other information that might disclose the individual’s whereabouts, for example whether they have been in your practice.

Only one word to describe an outrage like this - Huge.

Throw an [i]equally[/i] huge book at them

Throw an equally huge book at them

No point, they'll see it coming.

😀

Optician = medical professional so cannot release info to anyone

From memory I think the specsaver/vision express business model is an odd one. An optician with a franchise shop business wrapped around it. The optician passes on the prescrition to you and you give it to the shop and they use your need for glasses/lenses and the fact you are stood in a room full of merchandise to twist you into a sale. The two entities are related but independent. Did the optician or the 'shop' do the blabbing?

I'm not sure I'd be too fussed in your situation.

Much to amusement of many here TJagain is completely right. Providing information without consent is a breach of data protection but with minor consequences here. I would contact the opticians register a complaint and ask them to look at their SOP for giving out patient data. It’s of minor consequences here but in a (probably highly rare) other circumstance it could have more serious consequences.

Sounds like it's time to be de-Zeiss-ive, but don't get too angry or you'll get Raybanned from the store.

Nealglover-

If you think a patient is unfit to drive

A221
The DVLA and the DVA have legal responsibility for deciding if a person is medically unfit to drive.
A222
The patient is legally responsible for informing the DVLA or DVA if they do not meet the vision standard for driving. Information on how they can do this is in the Useful information section below. However, if you think the patient may pose a very real risk of danger to the public, but you are not sure whether you should act, ask yourself: 
what might the outcome be in the short or longer term if I do not raise my concern? And,
how could I justify why I did not raise the concern?
A223
If you decide that the patient is unfit to drive, you should:
first tell the patient that they are unfit to drive and give the reasons. You may wish to discuss your concerns with a relative or carer, if the patient consents to this
tell the patient that they have a legal duty to inform the DVLA or DVA about their condition
put your advice in writing to the patient
record your advice and keep a copy of any correspondence to the patient on the patient record, and 
notify the patient’s GP, if appropriate, with the patient’s consent.
A224
Sometimes the actions in para A223 might not achieve their aim, or would take too long to do so. You have a duty of confidentiality to the patient, but this is not absolute and can be broken if it is in the public interest to do so. Guidance from the Department of Health includes the example of reporting a driver who rejects medical advice not to drive as one where the public interest can be a defence to breaching patient confidentiality.78
A225
If you conclude the public interest outweighs the duty of confidentiality, you should:
notify the appropriate authority (DVLA or DVA) in writing, and, if appropriate, provide evidence of clinical findings (see useful information below)
notify the patient’s GP of the action being taken, and
notify the patient, if appropriate.
A226
If you are considering informing the DVLA or DVA that the patient may not be fit to drive,79 you may wish to contact your professional or representative body for advice.
See section on Confidentiality.
References
78 Department of Health(2010) Confidentiality: NHS Code of Practice. Supplementary guidance: public interest disclosures [Accessed 27 Oct 2017]
79 DVLA. Health conditions and driving [Accessed 27 Oct 2017]

http://guidance.college-optometrists.org/guidance-contents/knowledge-skills-and-performance-domain/examining-patients-who-drive/if-you-think-a-patient-is-unfit-to-drive/

Looks like hell of a minefield and wouldnt like to try that unless I had my employers support. Which I doubt he would have.

convert

The two entities are related but independent.

Sounds more like a hairdressers

thegeneralist - Member
Words fail me....

[img] [/img]

esselgruntfuttock - Member

Throw an equally huge book at them

No point, they'll see it coming.

and

giantalkali - Member

Sounds like it's time to be de-Zeiss-ive, but don't get too angry or you'll get Raybanned from the store.

Very good, very good indeed.

In all honesty this is not a wind up. I have no problems at all that Mrs A knows about my glasses, the prescription, price, type etc. I keep a copy of the prescription and receipt in the travel wallet in case I need a replacement when we are abroad.

My issue is that I was annoyed that details of my purchase had been passed on. Possibly mountains out of molehills but I do feel that it should not have happened.

OP please don't make a "spectacle" of yourself.

Take a good long hard look and the horizon will be clearer

Squirrelking they can tell the DVLA as you found out after Googling. Confidentiality doesn’t go beyond the law but it has to be in the interest of the public, it’s not particularly difficult. Give the person a chance to do it themselves, if they don’t prompt them again if they still don’t and pose enough risk you can intorm the relevant party, document all processes as you go.

Squirrelking-

If you conclude the public interest outweighs the duty of confidentiality, you should:
notify the appropriate authority (DVLA or DVA) in writing, and, if appropriate, provide evidence of clinical findings

That’s all you need to know really.

If an optician has told someone they are unfit to drive, and they KNOW they have continued to do so, they are in the clear to report them.

No issues whatsoever. No grey areas, they just do it.

A close mate is an optician and he’s done it multiple times with various employers over the years as it really pisses him off (like permanent drink driving!)

No idea why your mate really changed jobs, but I don’t think it was that 😉

tonyg2003 - Member

Much to amusement of many here TJagain is completely right.

*Basks in self righteous glow*

I shall frame this and put it on my wall

I can’t believe there are people on this thread share some level of outrage. I don’t care about the legalities or advice on optician college websites. This ‘incident’ just requires a modicum of common sense:

[b]No personal* data was released to anyone whom the OP didn’t want to have it[/b]

Don’t go reporting this to anyone or go create a fuss. You’ll at best make an unnecessary scene and at worst get someone to lose their job for no reason

* your type of lens (not prescription) is not sensitive personal information

It seems there was a clear breach of the data protection act.

Fanatic - yes it is legally. You may not think it is but the law would disagree with you.

None of us are outraged. some of us understand that this is a serious breach of patient and data confidentiality albeit one with negligible consequences

Some of us live with this sort of stuff every day and have also seen severe consequences from what appears to be innocent actions in passing on information.

Don’t go reporting this to anyone or go create a fuss. You’ll at best make an unnecessary scene and at worst get someone to lose their job for no reason

Couldn’t agree more.

Some of us live with this sort of stuff every day and have also seen severe consequences from what appears to be innocent actions in passing on information.

Understand that, but in this case, I’ll wager the person in the opticians knows bothe OP and his wife, that they have been in there together previously/recently etc etc.

I’m not saying they were in the right. But it’s not worth someone potentially losing their job over.

Did they tell your wife about your eye herpes?

My point is there were zero consequences here. And I find it hard to invent a scenario where disclosing the type of lens could result in any negative consequences.

This sort of over sensitive interpretation of laws invented for different/ more obvious situations grinds my gears. It’s certainly not as clear cut breach of data protection law as some make out.

Get off your high horse. No harm no foul. Save the outrage for something that matters.

They wouldn't lose a job over it unless its a repeated pattern of behaviour or the boss is looking for an excuse to sack them. Its a verbal warning level offense

Who is outraged? NO one that I can see.

Its not an oversensitive interpretation of the law. Its simply the law.

They wouldn't lose a job over it unless its a repeated pattern of behaviour or the boss is looking for an excuse to sack them. Its a verbal warning level offense

If it were me, I’d rather not leave it up to your guesswork what the consequences of reporting this non event would be.

It ain’t the law. It’s your interpretation of the law. I am at best 50/50 sure your interpretation is correct.

Most people seem to be missing the point. There were no serious consequences here but unless the opticians look at their patient confidentiality systems there could be consequences in another case. It’s useful feedback to the clinicians to give them the chance to improve their SOP. I work in a very highly regulated and litigious clinical area and deal with this sort of stuff daily.

Who is outraged? NO one that I can see.

Correct. I think the OP said he was “a bit miffed”

But was he really ?

Or did he just do that thing that seems really popular these days ...

and spot something (that had no effect on him at all) and realise it was something that technically he could complain about, and go for it !

It also advises taking professional advice before informing the DVLA, that to me is a red flag that says its not as simple as it appears.

And yes, there were other issues but this was one of them.

My optician not only talks about my wife’s history but also my father in law’s (including some pretty detailed info suggesting my wife may well end up with similar eye problems that he has). Got to say that I was pretty surprised at the level of detail he went into.

When it comes to data protection. Wait until you see the new GDPR laws!

Alison from the garage told my wife in passing that me and Billy always get two bacon rolls each from her on early shifts, and I got a row when I got home. Can I make a claim?

It also advises taking professional advice before informing the DVLA, that to me is a red flag that says its not as simple as it appears.

To be fair, it does.

(I’ve texted said friend and asked the Q)

He said that the advice is always...

“If you KNOW that they are unfit to drive, and you KNOW that have ignored your diagnosis/advice, then go for it. No issues”

They wouldn't lose a job over it unless its a repeated pattern of behaviour or the boss is looking for an excuse to sack them.[b] Its a verbal warning level offense[/b]

Is it though? I repeat - we use the word optician pretty loosely. Are we talking about a sales assistant working in the shop attached to the opticians or an actual optician? If the former is it really any different to the assistant in the shoe shop telling your wife you bought such and such a pair in a size 9? I'm not sure it is. The fact that my right foot is a size 11 and my right eye is +1 D seem on a par in sensitivity to me.

FFS - I hope this is a troll.

Speeding
Littering
Close overtake
Red light jumping
Mobile phone usage whilst driving
No tax/MOT

Get all of these incidents reported and once you’ve finished, move on to inconsequential data protection breaches.

Do I need a medical power of attorney to pick up my wife's new glasses from the optician?

fanatic278 - Member
It ain’t the law. It’s your interpretation of the law. I am at best 50/50 sure your interpretation is correct

20/20 Shirley?

I am once again amazed how anyone, I mean even if they try really, really hard, could muster up enough of a monkeys about something like this to start a thread about it in the public domain.

Incredible.

I think I preferred pre-internet times when you didn't know there were so many odd folks knocking about 😀

tj and others- I thank you for what I believe to be sound and sensible advice.

I am not trolling. I am not outraged.

Look at it this way. Person 1 has information collected by opticians.
Person 2 has that information divulged to them by employee of said opticians. I honestly believe that this is not the way things should be. It matters not to whom the information was divulged (unless they hold some kind of power of attorney).

I do not intend to pursue this with the opticians.

[quote=tonyg2003 ]When It Comes To Data Protection. Wait Until You See The New GDPR Laws!

FTFY