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How good and easy to set up and use are they now? I resent paying microsoft or apple money at all since they kowtowed to Trump but I am going to need a new desktop soon.
I am a reasonable user of a computer but thats about it No idea of the detail of how they work. I can just about open command prompt but thats it. I use a fair bit of open source software like open office and so on and have had few issues with it. the only microsoft thing I now use is basic windows
would I be foolish to look at an open source OS ? Or have they reached a level now where and averageish user can make them work?. there are local places who can build a computer to my spec so I don't need to buy one with everything preinstalled
[sweeping generalization]
Open Source OS is the domain of the tech nerd, and I mean that in the same sense that many here are bike nerds; the fact that it needs constantly tinkering with is part of the enjoyment. You'll be forever trying to get it to work with your printer/router/phone/scanner/whatever, and the nerds love that stuff, in the same way that the nerds here love wanging on about tyre pressures, rebound rates and frame geometry.
As Joe Punter who just wants a bike to ride to work on, should just go buy a hybrid from a known brand, if you want an OS that just works, use iOS, Windows or Chrome.
[/sweeping generalization]
OpenOffice was discontinued quite some time ago (although there is an Apache version). Libre Office is go to open source Office app these days. Might explain your issues 🙂
Can't speak about operating systems but I use a lot of open source software now and it is so professional and usable.
I do still use Windows but I can't recall the last I actually gave Microsoft any money. The current one came installed on a second hand computer and has been updated for free many times.
Very easy to use for basic stuff, office, browsing, etc. etc. depending on which flavour of linux you choose.. there are lots!
I'd suggest mint or ubuntu, a lot of them just work straight out of the box, they come with most drivers and often come bundled with say firefox, open office sorry libre office as it's now called...and other common apps people will typically want.
You can even make a USB bootable verion of most, so you can run them from a flash drive to test drive them, before installing them properly.
https://linuxmint-installation-guide.readthedocs.io/en/latest/choose.html
Well that shows how dim I am 🙂 Not even sure what open source office thingy I am using. Maybe its the apache version?. I don't really have issues with it tho. I wrote "few issues" not "A few issues" 🙂
I am certainly no computer nerd but my experience of open source software is generally good.
mattyfez +1
The most difficult thing can be overcoming a computer's reticence to load a different OS, which means a faff in settings to shut secure boot and the like up.
Otherwise, easy enough and updates are simpler than Windows
Some niche hardware is a problem, but for most it's straightforward
really don't do it unless you really like doing this stuff and want to get into it. As above although it is a generalisation it is still for people who enjoy getting stuff to work and you are just making life harder for yourself when you could be getting on with something more interesting. If it's only because you resent giving money to Apple/Microsoft I'm sure you will struggle with Google as well as there really are few phone systems outside Android/iOS. You will also spend a lot of time 'fixing' problems by googling stuff and typing in commands that you don't fully understand. That way chaos lies
mattyfez +1
The most difficult thing can be overcoming a computer's reticence to load a different OS, which means a faff in settings to shut secure boot and the like up.
Otherwise, easy enough and updates are simpler than Windows
Some niche hardware is a problem, but for most it's straightforward
Yeah I'm currently duel booting with windows and Nobara, as it has good steam support and i can play forza horizon... only issue is I can't get my xbox pad to connect properly via bluetooth, it works fine with a usb cable though, so i might try a different linux distro
All normal stuff just works though...
I do not use google and am logged out of all google stuff on my phone and do not let it track me at all ( difficult but possible) so I have almost nothing to do with google either 🙂
This is a timley video if you are thinking about linux...
really don't do it unless you really like doing this stuff and want to get into it. As above although it is a generalisation it is still for people who enjoy getting stuff to work and you are just making life harder for yourself when you could be getting on with something more interesting. If it's only because you resent giving money to Apple/Microsoft I'm sure you will struggle with Google as well as there really are few phone systems outside Android/iOS. You will also spend a lot of time 'fixing' problems by googling stuff and typing in commands that you don't fully understand. That way chaos lies
That's really not true, a lot of the more user friendly linux distros you just install it much like you would windows you go through an initial setup, enter wif-password, etc, and it just works. They even come bundled with all the comon apps most home casual/users want - vlc media player, libre office, etc etc.
Linux Mint was simple to set up and use when I played with it on an old laptop. The old laptop is key here as it extends the life of an appliance that would otherwise end up as electronic waste (I expect that you won't want to re-purpose old tech as a local server for Plex or something like a DNS set-up).
Long time daily user of Solus here https://getsol.us/
Very very rarely need to resort to command line and when I do it's usually just because it's easier than using the GUI. Easy to use software center.
The only thing I can sometimes need that I don't have is access to Adobe Creative suite functions and InDesign but again it's so rare. There's so many web apps out there now I don't need to install anything just about everything is done in the browser.
Obviously LibreOffice suite is available for Docs and spreadsheets.
To all the nay sayers, have you even used a modern Linux distro?
It's no more difficult than switching from Windows to Mac OS for example.
That's like saying skoda cars are rubbish based on a 25 year old memory.
I challenge you to prove me wrong... Create a flash drive and boot up something from this list, and I dare you to tell me you struggle with it for normal home user activities.
https://www.howtogeek.com/linux-distros-best-for-beginners-to-start-with/
You can even run it straight off a flash drive to play with it without installing it properly
Not used Linux for a long time. But when I last used Ubuntu on and old PC it was absolutely fine for normal web and office stuff. That was over 6 years ago now and I can only imagine it has got better.
So I'd get a spare USB drive download a distro to it and see how you get on.
An alternative to paying Microsoft to use Windows is to use it anyway and just put up with the activation reminders. That and limited personalisation options appear to be the only downsides. Security updates appear to come through as normal.
An alternative to paying Microsoft to use Windows is to use it anyway and just put up with the activation reminders. That and limited personalisation options appear to be the only downsides. Security updates appear to come through as normal.
In that scenario you'd just buy a grey market widows licence key for a tenner or something, but it doesn't address the problem that you're still stuck with windows.
If I wasn't heavily into gaming on windows I wouldn't even use it at all.
Windows is expensive, bloated, full of Spyware and just not as good.
Are you building the desktop yourself or buying retail?
assuming it got windows installed at the factory then surely uncle bill had already been paid ? I’d stick with windows and make a point of doing as you currently do and avoid their applications where possible
certainly wouldn’t be a hill I’d choose to die on and I work in IT
Just crack on with something like Mint or Ubuntu, I use Ubuntu Cinnamon across a laptop and desktop and it's boringly efficient. No idea why people are saying it's difficult. Some distros are a nightmare, Mint or Ubuntu are easier to get to grips with than new windows.
Don't bother reading any "best Linux distro for beginners" type articles because they quickly descend into techy one-upmanship bullshit about stuff that's utterly irrelevant to actual beginners.
If there's some random bit of software you "have to" use for work purposes or whatever that might be different but for the vast majority of people that's not the case.
Honestly, you could be up and running in an hour, in a week you almost certainly won't want to go back.
certainly wouldn’t be a hill I’d choose to die on and I work in IT
Don't even think I about it. As you know, I've been in IT
you are just making life harder for yourself when you could be getting on with something more interesting.
Hey mee too! I work in IT, and for home use, I can say catagorically say all three of you have absolutley no idea, or indeed experience, of what you are talking about in this context! 🤣
Either that or your only interactions with Linux were backend server stuff, or from 25+ years ago. 🤔
They are great (the good ones) until suddenly they're not. Like, there's some bit of software you want, or you edit a document using Libre Office and it totally buggers it up, or you want to use some gadget and it doesn't work. Then you are stuffed and your only support network is nerds who will start arguing about distributions and kernel modules and whatnot.
I used to use it for work. My laptop kept crashing which impacted a high stakes project and everyone was blaming me for using Linux. Turned out I had a hardware issue, but that didn't make a difference. I went back to Windows.
^^^^
You're not wrong wrong but that's a reason there's a load of memes about word losing its shit when you try and move an image or whatever and it's not because of the rock solid stability of ms and ms office!
Are you building the desktop yourself or buying retail?
assuming it got windows installed at the factory then surely uncle bill had already been paid ? I’d stick with windows and make a point of doing as you currently do and avoid their applications where possiblecertainly wouldn’t be a hill I’d choose to die on and I work in IT
I would get one built locally without windows
Why not just chuck a distro on your existing computer to see how it goes?
What is a distro? Too much jargon I have no idea about. speak to me like I'm 93 🙂
It's the flavour of the OS.
They're all basically the same under the hood (well, they're not but let's pretend) but the user facing bit changes depending on what the developers want to achieve.
So Ubuntu is a distro for normal people who want stuff that just works for everyday computing.
Go here:
https://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntucinnamon/releases/24.04.2/release/
follow the instructions, report back by 2200hrs. 😉
It's fine. I use Linux for everything, and while there used to be a lot of problems, they're mostly a thing of the past.
It won't work for gaming if your game is Windows only. And you might have hardware that doesn't work if you're unlucky. Pretty much all printers are fine though.
And whereas in the olden days if you got stuck, you would be wading through a million stack-overflow posts to figure out how to fix something, these days you can just ask ChatGPT and it will do a pretty good job of telling you what to do.
I even have working hardware acceleration when using kdenlive, which is quite astonishing.
I use proton via steam for windows gaming on ubuntu and it works well, not as good as being in native windows but good enough to play the sort of games my aging hardware will play.
OpenOffice was discontinued quite some time ago (although there is an Apache version). Libre Office is go to open source Office app these days.
Libre Office is a fork of Open Office (ie, someone else took the source and started working on it independently). Libre Office is the better choice for the consumer, Open Office is (or at least was last I looked) targeted and business users who want fewer bleeding-edge features but an official support route.
It's fine. I use Linux for everything, and while there used to be a lot of problems, they're mostly a thing of the past.
It won't work for gaming if your game is Windows only. And you might have hardware that doesn't work if you're unlucky. Pretty much all printers are fine though.
And whereas in the olden days if you got stuck, you would be wading through a million stack-overflow posts to figure out how to fix something, these days you can just ask ChatGPT and it will do a pretty good job of telling you what to do.
I even have working hardware acceleration when using kdenlive, which is quite astonishing.
HDR actually works properly in the desktop environment too, unlike windows.
I'll come to answer your original question when I've got a bit more time. Two things to consider though:
- You need a new desktop. What's wrong with the old one? (And if you're buying a new pre-built machine it'll almost certainly come with Windows preinstalled anyway.)
- Whenever this conversation crops up you will get Team Microsoft who will tell you that Linux never works and is more trouble than it's worth, and Team Penguin who will tell you that Windows never works and still think "Micro$oft Windoze" is hilarious. Both of these groups are fanatics who are basing their advice on decades-old experiences and who won't be told any different so are best ignored.
Yours, someone who uses both on a daily basis.
Whilst the picture loading is still on the wonk, the correct link to the full-sized version of that image is
https://singletrackworld.com/wp-content/uploads/wpforo/attachments/18810/8043-image.png
You need a new desktop. What's wrong with the old one? (And if you're buying a new pre-built machine it'll almost certainly come with Windows preinstalled anyway.)
Its more than a decade old and beginning to struggle to run stuff. Too many windopws open and it all slows down. Maybe more ram would help - IIRC its expandable
As above - I would get one of the local PC bods to build me one without all the preinstalled shite
Hey mee too! I work in IT, and for home use, I can say catagorically say all three of you have absolutley no idea, or indeed experience, of what you are talking about in this context! 🤣
Possibly, it's been 15 years since I last tried it but it only takes one program that you would like to use that doesn't work and you are in a world of pain. I just checked one of the audio programs I use and it can be run under Linux but then it says this for how to deal with sound issues:
Unpack the download with "tar -xzf xscsetup-9.42.0.tar.gz". It is a binary distribution so there may be other issues with library versions etc. There is more information in the readme you will find in the download.
It's a completely new language if you haven't used it before and I'm not convinced you would want to go down that road. Yes it's not a standard program but you might find there is a bike cad program you want to use, or a mapping program, or if you want to install Signal which is hardly unusual then these are the instructions:
# 1. Install our official public software signing key:
wget -O-| gpg --dearmor > signal-desktop-keyring.gpg;
cat signal-desktop-keyring.gpg | sudo tee /usr/share/keyrings/signal-desktop-keyring.gpg > /dev/null# 2. Add our repository to your list of repositories:
echo 'deb [arch=amd64 signed-by=/usr/share/keyrings/signal-desktop-keyring.gpg] https://updates.signal.org/desktop/apt xenial main' |\
sudo tee /etc/apt/sources.list.d/signal-xenial.list# 3. Update your package database and install Signal:
sudo apt update && sudo apt install signal-desktop
Fine if you are used to it but it's a complete new language to learn. I'm not really sure that is what tj wants although I am also completely sure he could do it if he chose to go down that route
You could be using it by now!
I'm being slightly tongue in cheek but a, you could be and b, you'll never actually know until you try it for yourself.
Leffeboy's example above is pretty much the worst case scenario for a normal user.
Obviously it's not perfect but if Windows was perfect you wouldn't be changing so why not try something with different hassles!
You could be using it by now.
Is actually a good point. As mentioned already you can get distributions that will run off a flash drive so you can just try it on your existing windows desktop without installing anything and see how you get on
Hey mee too! I work in IT, and for home use, I can say catagorically say all three of you have absolutley no idea, or indeed experience, of what you are talking about in this context! 🤣
Possibly, it's been 15 years since I last tried it but it only takes one program that you would like to use that doesn't work and you are in a world of pain. I just checked one of the audio programs I use and it can be run under Linux but then it says this for how to deal with sound issues:
Unpack the download with "tar -xzf xscsetup-9.42.0.tar.gz". It is a binary distribution so there may be other issues with library versions etc. There is more information in the readme you will find in the download.
It's a completely new language if you haven't used it before and I'm not convinced you would want to go down that road. Yes it's not a standard program but you might find there is a bike cad program you want to use, or a mapping program, or if you want to install Signal which is hardly unusual then these are the instructions:
# 1. Install our official public software signing key:
wget -O-| gpg --dearmor > signal-desktop-keyring.gpg;
cat signal-desktop-keyring.gpg | sudo tee /usr/share/keyrings/signal-desktop-keyring.gpg > /dev/null# 2. Add our repository to your list of repositories:
echo 'deb [arch=amd64 signed-by=/usr/share/keyrings/signal-desktop-keyring.gpg] https://updates.signal.org/desktop/apt xenial main' |\
sudo tee /etc/apt/sources.list.d/signal-xenial.list# 3. Update your package database and install Signal:
sudo apt update && sudo apt install signal-desktopFine if you are used to it but it's a complete new language to learn. I'm not really sure that is what tj wants although I am also completely sure he could do it if he chose to go down that route
That terrifies me. Im too old for this shit 🙂
That terrifies me. Im too old for this shit 🙂
You would only get into that world if you wanted something beyond the standard office/browser mix but I don't think that is unreasonable and Signal is fairly common now
I use signal every day.
ts more than a decade old and beginning to struggle to run stuff. Too many windopws open and it all slows down. Maybe more ram would help - IIRC its expandable
As above - I would get one of the local PC bods to build me one without all the preinstalled shite
It's hard to advise without (a lot) more information. But if you've got someone local who can help...
What you could do if you're Linux-curious is make what's called a "live" USB. Install Linux to a pendrive, boot off it and try-before-you-buy, so to speak. It won't touch your Windows installation, if you don't like it just reboot without it, and you'll probably find that old hardware works faster with it anyway.
Instructions are here: https://ubuntu.com/tutorials/try-ubuntu-before-you-install
Your "favourite image" is the first one it offers you, choose Ubuntu Desktop then Ubuntu 24.04.2 LTS
There are many different "distros" as someone else mentioned earlier, the thing with open source software is that anyone can do what they like with it. So if say you don't like the desktop interface on Ubuntu you can just wipe the USB and do the same with Mint or any other flavour you care to try.
I like Ubuntu because it's widely supported, one of the big barriers to entry with Linux is when you do have an issue and google it you'll find 47 different competing solutions, 46 are one of: doesn't apply to your distro; used to apply to your distro but has been superseded; will apply to your distro but has been committed (implemented) yet; works but is the wrong way to do it; works but is the wrong way to do it only for a different reason; works but breaks something else in the process; or simply doesn't work. You think STW can have an argument in an empty room, we're rank amateurs compared with the Linux forums. But at least with Ubuntu your support network isn't for an OS used by about six people.
(sorry, I typed that lot three hours ago and failed to hit "Add Reply")
Hey mee too! I work in IT, and for home use, I can say catagorically say all three of you have absolutley no idea, or indeed experience, of what you are talking about in this context! 🤣
Possibly, it's been 15 years since I last tried it but it only takes one program that you would like to use that doesn't work and you are in a world of pain. I just checked one of the audio programs I use and it can be run under Linux but then it says this for how to deal with sound issues:
Unpack the download with "tar -xzf xscsetup-9.42.0.tar.gz". It is a binary distribution so there may be other issues with library versions etc. There is more information in the readme you will find in the download.
It's a completely new language if you haven't used it before and I'm not convinced you would want to go down that road. Yes it's not a standard program but you might find there is a bike cad program you want to use, or a mapping program, or if you want to install Signal which is hardly unusual then these are the instructions:
# 1. Install our official public software signing key:
wget -O-| gpg --dearmor > signal-desktop-keyring.gpg;
cat signal-desktop-keyring.gpg | sudo tee /usr/share/keyrings/signal-desktop-keyring.gpg > /dev/null# 2. Add our repository to your list of repositories:
echo 'deb [arch=amd64 signed-by=/usr/share/keyrings/signal-desktop-keyring.gpg] https://updates.signal.org/desktop/apt xenial main' |\
sudo tee /etc/apt/sources.list.d/signal-xenial.list# 3. Update your package database and install Signal:
sudo apt update && sudo apt install signal-desktopFine if you are used to it but it's a complete new language to learn. I'm not really sure that is what tj wants although I am also completely sure he could do it if he chose to go down that route
That terrifies me. Im too old for this shit 🙂
It's like learning any new OS version or Office software.
With that lot ^^ you just copy and paste into a programme that's installed with every Linux by default, after that it might become part of the "normal" update routine. I say "might" because some do, like Firefox, and some remain stubbornly independent with their own update option, but that's no different to stuff under Windows
# 1. Install our official public software signing key:
That's just making sure that you download an authentic copy. You have to verify it and then install it as "admin" (the sudo bit). In Windows it's easier to install virus-laden stuff and the majority of home-user attacks are aimed at Windows anyway.
I also object to Windows wanting me to use a Windows account and then "follow me" around
I really wouldn't bother. If you don't want to pay Microsoft then just use one of the many KMS activators on GitHub.
I have Windows dual-booting with Ubuntu on my laptop and despite being designed for Linux it still doesn't quite work properly. It'll fire up fine, but once you're in you'll find continual annoyances that will lead you to wish you'd stuck with Windows (or Mac).
Linux is still terminal-based, so if the random GUI that the distribution supplier has plonked in doesn't work then you'll need to dive into the terminal, and you'll need to understand what you're doing as copied and pasting instructions from the internet will almost certainly not work.
What's good:
- it is actually open source.
- the backlight on my laptop is for some inexplicable reason brighter on Linux than Windows.
- all the bits and pieces on my laptop had drivers out of the box.
What's not so good:
- performance and battery life is still an issue. Resizing a browser window, for example, happens at one frame per second.
- you lose fingerprint / facial recognition. Even if there are drivers, there's no actual support in the Linux kernel for this. Get used to typing your password a lot.
- apps in the bundled "stores" are not the latest versions or frequently crippled (eg I dare you to find a way to play a video with an AC-3 audio track on Fedora or Ubuntu without diving into the command prompt).
- system and application updates take ages and you still have to restart.
- unless you export as PDF you still can't use any of the free "office" suites to modify a Word or Excel document because the formatting is just far enough off track to look naff.
- if you thought that Photoshop has a learning curve it's nothing to GIMP. And while we're on that, you'll never get the average person to install an application with that name unless someone tells them what it's short for.
- can't write to an NTFS drive without paying a third party.
- inconsistent UI scaling.
I've been using both for nearly 20 years and still prefer Windows. Though I do think Microsoft peaked with Windows 10.