MegaSack DRAW - This year's winner is user - rgwb
We will be in touch
Announced they are reducing the speed on that road today and placing cameras. It's on the BBC.
Guessing the "other car was speeding" cover up has started?....
I've noticed some eldery drivers are very sensible and slow.
Response of the authorities is that they’ll lower speed limit on the road
They were discussing it anyway. Knowing something of how councils work, this will have been in the pipeline for years.
The army thing is later than 1930. My Grandad learned to drive in the army during WW2 so never took a driving test either.
People are living longer so it makes sense that we need to introduce some form of fitness to drive test at a later stage in life - not sure a full on driving test is required. If nothing else other than to update people on the rules of the road and modern infrastructure like Smart Motorways...I've never touched the Highway Code since I passed my test 20 years ago and on average there is something like 10 or more ammendmnents to the HC every year, so there's been maybe upto 200 changes to the HC since I passed my driving test. And apparently we all signed an agreement when we passed our driving test committing us to keeping ourselves upto date with the HC so ignorance is no excuse.
Though after doing a speed awareness course a couple of years ago and a Motorway safety course yesterday I'm upto date now!
Guessing the “other car was speeding” cover up has started?….
Speed limit was 60, and the immediate action to lower the speed limit suggests it probably wasn't.
Announced they are reducing the speed on that road today and placing cameras
Amazing how they managed to do it some time ago. This is from March last year
https://www.edp24.co.uk/news/average-speed-cameras-between-kings-lynn-and-hunstanton-1-5422066
or last week https://www.edp24.co.uk/news/politics/where-are-average-speed-cameras-on-a149-1-5847833
mentions the Babingley turn where the accident happened.
Now I really don't know what happened, but a conspiracy theory is a bit much.
Hang on though, I've read 1984. Maybe there's a whole team sat in a massive building changes old news reports to fit the new normal. Doubleplusgood.
To be fair to the King of the Lizard People I almost flipped my van on the M6 trying to pick up a banana off the passenger footwell. Never made that mistake again. Bloody scary and stupid.
Most of you seem unaware that there already are mechanisms in place!
License has to be renewed every 3 years past 70.
FIL just had his license revoked because someone (we don't know who - doctor possibly) told the DVLA he wasn't fit to drive.
But if you want a real measure of the risk, ask the insurance companies who bet their money on it every day why premiums for the elderly are lower than 20-somethings. (I think FIL was still paying less than I do at 38 with a clean driving record fwiw)
petec
Hang on though, I’ve read 1984. Maybe there’s a whole team sat in a massive building changes old news reports to fit the new normal. Doubleplusgood.
Calm down, are you related or something?😏
Just curious, do those links day the speed was being reduced in that section too?
Most of you seem unaware that there already are mechanisms in place!
License has to be renewed every 3 years past 70.
And what is the criteria for renewal? It is not a test, or anything close to a test is it.
Announced they are reducing the speed on that road today and placing cameras. It’s on the BBC.
My mother lives in the next village down the road, that road is a rat run and flat. Plenty of people drive quickly down it..
... like most of Norfolk and the Fens TBH.
Accident right on the cycle path.
Will go there tomorrow and look for souvenirs......
are you related or something?
Got a lot of [older] family up there; it's gone from being a sleepy backwater to immensely popular, and the roads haven't coped. The tractor/sugar beet lorry drivers will still pull out in front you like they always did, and a lot of people aren't used to it. Coupled with the boy racers of Lynn (look at all the roadside memorials on the single carriage way stretch of the A47), a lot of the roads are dangerous.
you've not seen quiet until you've driven out to Terrington Marsh on a dank February afternoon. The thought of growing up there...
And yeah, the speed limit was planned to be reduced in exactly that spot.
Old couple driving the wrong way towing a caravan down the M40 a couple months ago killed themselves & a van driver - they'd been reported a few days earlier due to a minor collision. I had to stop my dad from driving - not a pleasant task when he lives with you and moans about it all the time, certainly something ought to be done.
sideshow
...But if you want a real measure of the risk, ask the insurance companies who bet their money on it every day why premiums for the elderly are lower than 20-somethings. (I think FIL was still paying less than I do at 38 with a clean driving record fwiw)
That says it all really.
Looking back on my own driving history I suspect maybe we should restrict driving licenses to those above the age of 30*.
As you get older you realise that a car is simply a transportation box, the roads are public infrastructure and not a private race track, and other road users are not a mobile chicane, but people with an equal right to be there and an equal right to drive at a speed they think safe.
.
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.* That's tongue in cheek btw.
As you get older you realise that a car is simply a transportation box, the roads are public infrastructure and not a private race track, and other road users are not a mobile chicane, but people with an equal right to be there and an equal right to drive at a speed they think safe.
👍🥰
As said above, insurance companies who have the stats reckon old drivers are safer than young drivers. My dad stopped driving at 89 but before that he had restricted himself. Stopped night driving, only driving local roads off peak etc.
I've driven on the A149 many hundreds of time (grew up in Hunstanton, my wider family are still there) and I wouldn't consider it particularly dangerous or have seen much speeding.
I currently live in Ely in the Fens and the driving around here is shocking, not many roads, too many cars due to the city expanding due to Cambridge overflow, combine this with slow-moving farm machinery, produce trucks, mud on the road and impatient, entitled drivers and you get lots of bad accidents, many fatal.
Despite there being above the average about of pensioners most serious accidents here are caused by boy racers and impatient commuters, the old people do silly things but generally, these are low-speed crashes and parking prangs.
Caveat - I'm no fan of the royal family - but it would be ridiculous if Phillip isn't charged with dangerous driving, as it seems to being now reported. Also the BBC reported the accident in a way that made it sound like it was the other persons fault. "the Kia driver hit Prince Phillips car with considerable force". No he pulled out in front of someone that probably had no time to slow down. Every reporting of the royals from the BBC is from another age...
If he is found to be at fault it will present the local Plod with a bit of a dilemma. Press for prosecution or have a quiet word with Brenda?
As said above, insurance companies who have the stats reckon old drivers are safer than young drivers.
Not necessarily safer, just have less accidents. They may not drive as far, drive at same times and are typically slower meaning people have time to avoid their bad driving without crashing. Go out on the roads at 09:15 and dodging the erratically driven Honda Jazz is a common occurrence.
just came to post the same as Kerley - old people generally do tiny mileages and all low speed town driving.
I have an agreement with a mate who is a good few years older than me, that I'll be the one to have the discussion about taking the keys off him. He had to do it to a mate of his and he used the economic argument, it's cheaper to get taxi's than insurance/petrol/maintenance
just came to post the same as Kerley – old people generally do tiny mileages and all low speed town driving.
Ah - and that's what makes them less of a risk. Glad we've resolved that one.
It looks like they’ve replaced his crashed Landrover with a new one. Lets hope it just for getting about off road.
old people generally do tiny mileages and all low speed town driving.
Yet I'm guessing still get lower premiums for the same annual mileage estimate (the older types whose insurance details I'm party to live in the country and some of them drive a lot). Hard to clock up a high mileage doing all low speed town driving.
Most of you seem unaware that there already are mechanisms in place!
License has to be renewed every 3 years past 70.
FIL just had his license revoked because someone (we don’t know who – doctor possibly) told the DVLA he wasn’t fit to drive.
When this generally comes up, people like GP's organisations object to the pressure it puts on them to come up with a difficult and subjective decision as to weather they pass info on to the DVLA,
Older drivers[4]
The DVLA states that:Age is no bar to the holding of a licence. The DVLA requires confirmation at the age of 70 that no medical disability is present. Thereafter a three-year licence is issued subject to satisfactory completion of medical questions on the application form. However, as ageing progresses, a driver or his/her relative(s) may be aware that the combination of progressive loss of memory, impairment in concentration and reaction time with possible loss of confidence, suggests consideration be given to ceasing driving. Physical frailty is not per se a bar to the holding of a licence.
A Canadian paper showed that a near accident or accident was the only factor that would lead many to stop driving. Few elderly drivers plan for stopping driving.[8]
Encourage relatives to contact DVLA if they believe a relative who has dementia should not be driving. Many elderly drivers who die in accidents are found to have Alzheimer's disease.
GPs may have concerns about breaching confidentiality (by contacting the DVLA) when they have concerns about patients with mental illness or dementia. They are advised to seek advice from their defence union before doing so.
from above
As you get older you realise that a car is simply a transportation box, the roads are public infrastructure and not a private race track, and other road users are not a mobile chicane, but people with an equal right to be there and an equal right to drive at a speed they think safe.
And then you hit a point where you just assume that as you have been driving for so long you can and should keep doing it, why would you stop? Why would you consider it?
For those who are getting older when do you think you would stop? What would make you think about it?
Do you notice your own skills and awareness is not what it was?
Lets hope it just for getting about off road.
I had to jump out of the way of the last one when said driver was on his way to the polo in the Great Park whilst off-road a couple of years ago. I think the driver has driven for the last time.
I contrast driving with holding down a Class 2 medical for flying. No comparison.
Most of you seem unaware that there already are mechanisms in place!
License has to be renewed every 3 years past 70.
But it's simply a self certification, tick a box, "I'm still fit to drive". Given 90% of drivers class themselves as 'above average' I'm not sure this is the best approach. My mothers car was battered on every corner by the time we got her to stop and if we hadn't taken the keys off her she'd still be driving now.
Most of you seem unaware that there already are mechanisms in place!
License has to be renewed every 3 years past 70.
FIL just had his license revoked because someone (we don’t know who – doctor possibly) told the DVLA he wasn’t fit to drive.
You seem unaware that that is not a test and that it would be a GP or optician who possibly rightly reported him.
That's brilliant.
LOLZ that is so funny!
That gif is simply awesome...
🤩🤣
And then you hit a point where you just assume that as you have been driving for so long you can and should keep doing it, why would you stop? Why would you consider it?
For those who are getting older when do you think you would stop? What would make you think about it?
Do you notice your own skills and awareness is not what it was?
As an older person Mike, I may just be able to answer that. I've had to stop driving in the dark despite being tested and needing a new prescription for driving glasses. No problem during daytime though. Consider my standard of driving to be fine and always keep under the speed limit in built up areas which certainly hacks off a few. Awareness is fine especially around cyclists.
For the record I had to tell my own father to stop driving, in a nice way obviously.
I didn't find this out until after we stopped my mother and father driving but you can anonymously report someone. You seem to need to know who someone is, so when I witnessed someone so infirm they had to lift each of their legs into the car after staggering out to it, then scrape the car opposite while turning round and then drive off there wasn't much I could do (other than send them the car registration).
When this generally comes up, people like GP’s organisations object to the pressure it puts on them to come up with a difficult and subjective decision as to weather they pass info on to the DVLA
Indeed.
GPs may have concerns about breaching confidentiality (by contacting the DVLA) when they have concerns about patients with mental illness or dementia. They are advised to seek advice from their defence union before doing so.
However, my counterpoint to that would be firearms and shotgun licencing. Both require a doctor to sign off on and both are capable of just as much damage as a car. If legislation allows a GP to disclose information for the purposes of one licensing scheme I don't see why it is difficult to ask them to do the same for another.
I had to jump out of the way of the last one when said driver was on his way to the polo in the Great Park whilst off-road a couple of years ago
Came across that rounding the corner by the copper horse, though Liz was driving, him passenger. Although I suspect they have one each, or ten.
The ranger or security dude had pulled up by the turn into the Long Walk prior to them charging down it.
Think for pootles round the estates I don't see a problem. They can do what they want there anyway even if not licensed.
Do they need a licence on the road anyway or are they exempt?
However, my counterpoint to that would be firearms and shotgun licencing. Both require a doctor to sign off on and both are capable of just as much damage as a car. If legislation allows a GP to disclose information for the purposes of one licensing scheme I don’t see why it is difficult to ask them to do the same for another.
Surely there are far, far fewer people holding shotgun licenses than driving licenses?
A bit off topic, but in response to a post above.You do not need a GP to 'sign off ' a shotgun licence, whilst the expectation is that they would be involved it is not a legal requirement. In the West Mercia police area for example, a request for relevant information is sent to the GP surgery, but if the GP does not reply then the licence is usually given. Some GP's won't reply as a matter of principle, others charge their patients for a check through the record.
Other Police authorities won't issue until a response is received. There is no consistancy as the legislation is open to interpretation.
My mother lives in the next village down the road, that road is a rat run and flat. Plenty of people drive quickly down it..
I disagree, just past that junction is the dip, lovely rising blind double apex corners. Perfect for a heady night out in your Peugeot 205 in 1998. The royal protection squad pulled us up and told us to “F off and do that somewhere else.”
I worked on the Royal estate for 3 summers. Picked the phone up one morning and it was Philip’s chap, the old man had parked a Land Rover somewhere the previous morning and quite forgotten where, could I pop out and have a look?
Jimw that's interesting, I wasn't aware of that force's policy. As you say different forces apply the law inconsistently, another example being air rifles being taken off ticket.
Chvck - that is certainly the case however there is no mention of a lack of resources being an issue. I'm not naive enough to think that's not the case but it would seem the ethics question is a bigger issue.
The whole medical fitness question is a shit show right now and needs a major overhaul in terms of how things are reported and how licences are revoked or reissued. It rewards nobody to self report (expect a long fight to get your licence back when you are fit again) and conversely it seems you cannot easily report someone who seems incapable of safely controlling a vehicle.
Cambridge overflow, combine this with slow-moving farm machinery, produce trucks, mud on the road and impatient, entitled drivers and you get lots of bad accidents, many fatal.
Mainly drowning in the land drains, when Joe driving god can't get out the car in dark muddy water. The penalty for failure is just too severe, I take it easy when visiting the relatives who live that way.
My dad is 79 and no longer drives at night. I plan to be a full-time cyclist after 75 as I suspect the traffic levels and my abilities will make the whole farrago an unpleasant experience.
I flicked through BBC’s breakfast thing just now, while they were discussing this. They mentioned accident stats of 2 in a thousand drivers when over 70, whereas 17-24 have 4x as many. My gut reaction is that comparing a 97 yr old to a 70 yr old is probably like comparing a 44 yr old driver to a 17 yr old. But in reverse. 😁
and conversely it seems you cannot easily report someone who seems incapable of safely controlling a vehicle.
It’s very straightforward.
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NobeerinthefridgeSubscriber
Mrs Nobeer is an ophthalmic nurse, mainly elderly patients in for macular degeneration.Treatment generally involves eyeball injections, which has obvious side effects on vision. Most of them drive in and home, there’s no mechanism to stop people driving, the onus is on the driver.
Utter madness.
I think Mrs Nobeer or her superiors might want to get some professional advice on that. If there is a real risk (as she is implying) it is almost inevitable there will be an accident and thus a good chance eventually she is going to be explaining to a coroner or FAI why more was not done to stop the person driving. The Glasgow Bin Lorry case showed that there will be robust questions asked of medical professionals who didn’t intervene to stop people driving. The fact we can essentially stop people taking new babies home without a car seat tells me we can ensure safe travel arrangements exist when we want to. If the instructions to patients/drivers is not 100% clear, and advice on how else to travel to/from the hospital then they are part of the problem. If they know someone has been told not to drive and gets behind the wheel and neither call the police or report to DVLA they are as culpable as ignoring an obvious drunk driver. Do they advise DVLA when patients eyesight no longer meets that legal standard?
My dad went for a cataract operation* on his mobility scooter & the hospital wouldn't discharge him unless I went & picked him up, so there must be ways of stopping patients driving. I then had to pilot his mobility scooter home past rush hour traffic - oh the shame...
* He didn't tell me, first I knew was the hospital ringing me up
I think Mrs Nobeer or her superiors might want to get some professional advice on that. If there is a real risk (as she is implying) it is almost inevitable there will be an accident and thus a good chance eventually she is going to be explaining to a coroner or FAI why more was not done to stop the person driving. The Glasgow Bin Lorry case showed that there will be robust questions asked of medical professionals who didn’t intervene to stop people driving. The fact we can essentially stop people taking new babies home without a car seat tells me we can ensure safe travel arrangements exist when we want to. If the instructions to patients/drivers is not 100% clear, and advice on how else to travel to/from the hospital then they are part of the problem. If they know someone has been told not to drive and gets behind the wheel and neither call the police or report to DVLA they are as culpable as ignoring an obvious drunk driver. Do they advise DVLA when patients eyesight no longer meets that legal standard?
It's a medical ethics conundrum, basicallly your Hippocratic Oath or the modern equivalent prevents you from breaking confidentiality. I have friends in the medical professions who have said the same thing, hence why doctors and such are well advised to take professional advice before disclosing any medical details. I have one friend who was an optician who left the profession because he wasn't prepared to deal with potentially allowing someone to drive off who wasn't fit to.
The form you alluded to would be useless in such a scenario. I'm pretty sure you also need to know the persons name hence me saying you cannot easily report them.
The Glasgow Bin Lorry case demonstrates several problems with assessments...
He concluded that Mr Clarke “repeatedly lied in order to gain and retain jobs and licences”.Sauce linky
Good to hear that he is driving again already. Hope he doesn't go out when it is sunny.
It’s a medical ethics conundrum, basicallly your Hippocratic Oath or the modern equivalent prevents you from breaking confidentiality.
It’s really not a difficult ethical dilemma and I don’t think any governing body has issued advice that if a patient is likely to be a risk to themselves or others on the road that any duty of confidentiality prevents a medical professional from reporting to the police/dvla.
I’ve no idea why someone who is able to make a reasoned assessment of a person’s physical fitness to drive would be unlikely to know their name. The optician you referred to presumably also knew their address, date of birth etc. The dvla is the approach for revoking (or having proper fitness to drive assessments done to enable a fair assessment of the need to revoke) a license. If someone is an immediate danger to themselves or others then call the police just as you would with a drunk driver (in fact not everyone who is reported drunk is pissed - quite a few turn out to be having a medical episode). Description of the vehicle, registration plate, location and direction of travel is all they will ask for.