[Closed] Off AND injury caused by road covered in SH_T by lazy farmer?

combined with a police report of the incident that quotes me as saying "shit happens" and no action being taken against the driver.

Oh please. My heart bleeds...

You've obviously not worked with any then.

So, someone's kid is hurt due to the probable negligence of someone else, then it turns into 'oh but we should all feel sorry for the poor impoverished farmers'....

Come on. In any other situation where someone was injured through the negligence of another, you lot would be erecting a gallows and lighting the pyres...

Granted, there may be hazards in rural areas, from mud and dirt that inadvertently gets onto roads from farm vehicles, but the OP states the road was 'covered in mud and slurry'. That mud and slurry didn't get there by itself. The slurry in particular should not be fouling a public highway.

'Oh that Talkemada is only a city boy and knows nothing of our country ways'. Yeah, right. 'Cos you know everything about me, eh? Pfft. Judgemental fools.

In case it makes any difference, I'm very definitely a country boy (and usually argue from that perspective), but I completely agree with Talky. Of course lots of farmers have it tough, but then there are still plenty of others who aren't in any way poor, not to mention that many farmers are complete selfish b*******s. Of course you can't expect completely clean roads and a little bit of muck is unavoidable, but leaving a road covered in the stuff is totally unacceptable - and also illegal.

Can you prove it was negligence then?

If farmers had to stop and sweep all the mud off the road every time then nothing would ever get done.

Lorries from construction sites aren't allowed to dump mud in the roads - and there can be a hell of lot of mud on sites. No one says "nothing will ever get built", they just make certain that the mud on wheels of the lorries are washed off before they drive off the site. Or else hire a road sweeper which constantly drives up and down clearing the mud.

OP states the road was 'covered in mud and slurry'.

Wrong, if you had bothered to read it properly it actually said:

steep down hill section road covered in slurry from tractor traffic spreading

I very rarely find anyone knows the difference between slurry, mud, silage and manure. The OP was quoting what his son said. He may have been wrong. It was probably just mud.

Annnyway, if the farmer had JUST dropped it then it would be doubtful he could be held responsible, and in any way would be very unfair and unlikely to hold water in court as if you are pulling out of a muddy field there is no way you can stop it falling on the road.

So, someone's kid is hurt due to the probable negligence of someone else, then it turns into 'oh but we should all feel sorry for the poor impoverished farmers'....

I was pointing out that the automatic sueing of someone just because you couldn't cope with a bit of mud on the road could have far reaching implications. If the farmer is leaving the road dirty often and doesn't care about cleaning it up then I'd say, yes, sue his ass off. However in this case, if I may be granted to assume that it was a one-off on the farmers part (as the son might go this way often and this was clearly a suprise), then maybe a chat to the farmer may be in order. I must go to one incident a week where a simple bit of conversation in a community would solve many problems.

Come on. In any other situation where someone was injured through the negligence of another, you lot would be erecting a gallows and lighting the pyres...

It seems like that is your approach most of the time. 😉

No one says "nothing will ever get built", they just make certain that the mud on wheels of the lorries are washed off before they drive off the site. Or else hire a road sweeper which constantly drives up and down clearing the mud.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but last time I looked there wasn't a jetwash at every farm gate and I think every farmer in the land would just pack it all in if he had to employ a street cleaner to follow him wherever his tractor went. Not practical I'm afraid!!

I doubt that would be particularly difficult. Find the source- bosh.

You can argue in the farmer's defence, or about 'expecting hazards', all you like. Fact is, a person has suffered injuries and damage to their property, because they lost control on mud and slurry that shouldn't have been there in such amounts as to create a hazard and cause an accident. All road users should expect not to have to deal with such hazards caused by negligence.

A for some of the sanctimonious on here; if it were your kid, I doubt you'd be so willing to defend the farmer...

last time I looked there wasn't a jetwash at every farm gate

A hose and a broom is enough.

Annnyway, if the farmer had JUST dropped it then it would be doubtful he could be held responsible, and in any way would be very unfair and unlikely to hold water in court as if you are pulling out of a muddy field there is no way you can stop it falling on the road.

Wrong. It would be the duty of the farmer (or anyone for that matter) to ensure that no matter from their land fell onto a public highway creating a potential hazard. They would be required to clean it up asap, if it did accidentally happen. If they could not ensure their vehicle did not drop anything onto the road, then the vehicle would not be considered roadworthy. Sounds like more than just a bit of mud from the tyres in this case.

As for 'blame culture' blah blah- tough. If I get hurt and/or my property damaged because of your negligence, I'll sue you until you bled. And rightly so. Why should I suffer for your negligence and disregard for the Law?

I don't believe in lynching and burning.

Slow, prolonged torture is much more my style...

Fact is, a person has suffered injuries and damage to their property, because they lost control on mud and slurry that shouldn't have been there in such amounts as to create a hazard and cause an accident. All road users should expect not to have to deal with such hazards caused by negligence.

So how would you expect a farmer to conduct his business then? I am literally asking you how you would do it. My challenge is, you have to drive a tractor and trailer from one field to the farmhouse which involves going down 1/4 mile of public highway. The field is muddy, you are on your own. How do you leave the road free of any mud/debris?

Take me through what you would do.

A hose and a broom is enough.

For 100ft of road in the middle of nowhere? (for example!)

Have you ever been to the countryside? Its brown and green, you could drive or get a train to it, go on, have a look one day. 😉

"If it had been your skinny little arse getting road rash, you'd have gone crying home to your mummy and demanded the farmer be lynched, I bet..."
i refer you to

and eating through a straw for 2 weeks,
combined with a police report of the incident that quotes me as saying "shit happens" and no action being taken against the driver.

still, got a few k from the insurance of the van i wrote off in damages

For 100ft of road in the middle of nowhere?

No. For the tractor wheels you div.

No. For the tractor wheels you div.

Fair enough, change the rules.... errrr, hang on, we're back to the problem that you don't get hosepipes at every field entrance on farms. I'll admit you can carry a brush in the cab, that seems reasonable. 🙄

Dirtworker FTW....

errrr, hang on, we're back to the problem that you don't get hosepipes at every field entrance on farms

OK.....I see I'm going to have to help you with this one.

Right then....... clear the mud from a very small area by the field entrance, if necessary lay some hardcore down. Then place a trough near the entrance - how you fill it with water is up to you - hose, rainwater, water in containers transported over, whatever. Next drive the tractor to the mud free area, dip a stiff broom in the water, and then use it to scrub the wheels. Repeat as necessary.

If you want I'll come down and show you. What's best - drive down, or get a train ?

And btw, you could always invest in tractor mounted brushes 💡

As I've already said, construction sites aren't allowed to dump mud on the roads, if they do they risk a fine. And it isn't always very easy for them to deal with the issue, for example there might not be any water on a new greenfild site, but that doesn't mean they can simply allow the muckaway lorries to leave crap all over the roads.

But of course why should a farmer bother doing anything - if no one's going to complain.

that's exactly the point... no-one has complained for years and years and years.. because everyone understands that it's the countryside and the farmer is doing his job and growing our food.. so we drive a bit slowly through his farmyard..
which by the way... is not the only reason to drive slowly in the countryside..
kids out for a walk with mum and dad and the dogs..
little jonny wobbling to work on his bicycle..
a herd of cows being moved from one field to the next.. (aaah.. it's ok.. got this one covered.. cow mounted brushes.. clean off their feet on a patch of hardcore before they go through the gate... and massive poo bags to scoop up the pats too..) that's right.. we're in an episode of 'city slickers countryside makeover' starring ernie and talkmad..
come to our next village hog roast boys.. we'll lay on a lynchin in yer honour!

Right then....... clear the mud from a very small area by the field entrance, if necessary lay some hardcore down. Then place a trough near the entrance - how you fill it with water is up to you - hose, rainwater, water in containers transported over, whatever. Next drive the tractor to the mud free area, dip a stiff broom in the water, and then use it to scrub the wheels. Repeat as necessary.

You really have absolutely no idea, have you?

I very rarely find anyone knows the difference between slurry, mud, silage and manure

or hay and straw 👿

Could I remind all you mountain bikers to clean all the mud off your bikes and tyres at the end of each bridleway. Some of the divots that fly off your bikes afterwards on the roads are bloody dangerous to us roadies. It' just lazy inconsiderate negligence on your half, and the little bit of extra effort it would require to make the world safer would help shift those extra few pounds of fat you all seem to have.

IanM, +1! 😀

Given your explanation of the incident, no action was taken against the driver because they weren't in any way responsible, so a strawman which is of no real relevance to the OP's incident.

Coming down hill on a bike a car saw me as a "space" and turned into me and i hit it hard enough to require a complete new front end to a scudo . so in all actuallity, it was ALL his fault.

NEXT!

As ernie said at the top. When you run a building site you get rained on with all kinds of threats if you get any sh¥te on the road. As I said before, it got to the point where I got threatened with the police?? It all comes down to reasonable prevention of the problem! I was born in t country and still live 5 mins from the sticks and farmers do it habitually round here!

I think some people are forgetting that the countryside is a chuffing massive place

Of course nowadays everyone expects some one else to take responsibility for THEIR actions so yes go ahead and sue the farmer.

Funny to talk about responsibility here. The cyclist has to take responsibility, but the farmer doesn't? How does that work then?

Farmers DO need to clean sh*t up, since they are the ones causing it. Squirrels and falling branches are NOT the fault of the farmer, but sh*t all over the roads is. A bit of mess is unavoidable but I've seen some awful messes in my time.

PS Sh*t here means general mess whatever its composition.
PPS I am from the countryside
PPPS

the farmer is doing his job and growing our food

HAHAHA! Do you actually KNOW any farmers! LOL!

You really have absolutely no idea, have you?

+1 for Robdob

Sat here reading this thread utterly amazed. Some people really should think before they type.

It is odd that there is no distinction under law between what should be applied to building sites and to farmers yet there appears to be a tacit understanding that building sites have to clear up their mess but farmers, if it's a bit inconvenient, don't.

I agree that enforcing the legislation is not going to help farmers, but it seems somewhat unfair to builders/developers that it is enforced on them much more vigorously (at least going by the responses on this thread).

there's a distinct difference between many vehicles leaving 1 or 2 entrances from a single site over a period of weeks or months and a farmer leaving a multitude of fields a few times though.

Yes farmers have a responsibility to indicate and clear up their mess where reasonably possible.

I'd say that the farmer bares the majority of the fault but unless your son has lost out financially or incurred considerable psychological damage/distress then pursuing a claim would seem to be petulant and smack of the blatant profiteering through misfortune that is all too common. Report the incident by all means, if the farmer is a repeat offender then the police may wish to take action.

and there's some top spouting of bollocks on this thread 🙂

Right, so a "bit" is ok. A "lot" is not. Farmer is at fault when theres a "lot" and he / she hasn't attempted to turn it into a "bit".

Shall we wait to see how much there actually was? OP bang a picture up of said road. As with anything there has to be a line somewhere, then you can all decide on which side on the line the road is....

Or carry on arguing 😉

HAHAHA! Do you actually KNOW any farmers! LOL!

yep.. 2 pig farmers, one dairy, and 4 that have had to diversify no doubt partly due to arrogant sanctimonious pricks deciding from afar how tings should be done..
NEXT!

There is no 'argument' here; I am right and anyone who says otherwise is wrong. It's as simple as that.

Yes, obviously, you just had the last word on the subject.

I'll have the last word, I'll even put a question mark on the end of it if thats ok?

Talkemada - Member
Slow, prolonged torture is much more my style...

Username after banned username, post after angry post. We know. 🙄

BTW - do we know whether we have proof of 'a farmer' putting slurry on the road, or is this still from the unfounded claims of the OP? Negligence would require some sort of proof rather than a stw angry mob.

Funny; those defending the farmer are calling anyone who disagrees with them 'ignorant' etc, but none have actually come up with anything to counter the letter of the Law in such a scenario. Just bang on about how city folk don't unnerstaand coun'ry woiys...

we're in an episode of 'city slickers countryside makeover' starring ernie and talkmad..

You just don't like the fact that we're right.

How about, next time we're in the countryside, we 'accidentally' drop loads of litter? Eh? Of course we wouldn't, so why should the farmer not be held responsible and accountable for their actions?

This argument is done. The farmer is probably liable for the damage and injury caused by his negligence. Proving it would be difficult. Securing a prosecution more so.

Most of you Countryside Alliance would cry like little girls if that happened to you, and be straight onto Brussels, Amnesty International and Greenpeace if your precious bikes got scratched. And you'd bitch and whine the whole time, don't lie. We know you would.

The next time you have an off because of someone else's negligence, don't come crying to me, because I'll just stand there and laugh at you in a cruel and unkind manner, while you sit there sobbing over your grazed knee.

TooTall; get a life son. 🙄

[i]counter the letter of the Law in such a scenario[/i]

Like red light jumping? 😆

...anyway, fred I need to pick your brains about a trip to london..

there's a distinct difference between many vehicles leaving 1 or 2 entrances from a single site over a period of weeks or months and a farmer leaving a multitude of fields a few times though.

But surely that is irrelevant under the law?

The reason the building site has to clear up the mess is because it put it there, the only reason it seems to me that many see it as different for Farmers is because it would be inconvenient for them to clear it up.

Like red light jumping?

S'ok as long as no-one gets hurt or is inconvenienced. As would a bit of mud on the road be, if it didn't pose any hazard to other road users.

Whayyawannaknow? Where to eat? Where to drink? Where to score?

Just use this thread rather than starting another; I'm bored with this one now anyway. It's done.

Talkemada - Member
I'm bored with this one now anyway. It's done.

Login or thread?

Ok, staying out in the docklands, need to know how accesible it is to get in and out lateish at night, and could also do with a recommendation for a few hours bike shop shopping while mrs crikey goes off looking around shoe shops...

but the law (despite being an ass) or rather it's representatives must distinguish between 1 or 2 day's worth of mud which will be gone in a few days or after the first rain and a consistent, accumulating problem.

it's like saying the punishment for chucking a coke can out of the car window should be the same as for fly tipping commercial waste over a period of months

Clean up your own mess. End of.

Which part of the Docklands, Crikey? Canary Wharf area, or over towards City Airport?

CW has loads of bars and restaurants, although they can be a bit poncy and pricey. The City Airport area is a bit dire really; either soulless housing developments or rough council estates. Mind, it's only a short run on the DLR into town. The DLR runs until gone midnight weekdays, and at least until midnight on weekends. If you were in the centre, you could leave the pub etc at chucking out time, and get home ok.

Greenwich isn't far; DLR or a walk through the foot tunnel. Some nice pubs and eateries.There are some lovely riverside pubs down that way, as there are in Wapping.

Bike shopping will be limited to Evans CW, sadly. There's nowt good until you get into the centre of town.

If you fancy a pint while the missus is shlepping around the shops, then let me know and I'll pop down. Hmm, if you had a bike, I could show you some interesting local sights...

pop into Stratford for a pint, some class drinking establishments around there

Stratford! LOL!

I was cycling through there on Saturday; I have never seen such a colossal building project. It's ****ing enormous. Bigger even than Canary Wharf.

There are one or two nice pubs round there, but I have to say, it's not my first choice for a night out! 😕

Talkemada - Member
I'm bored with this one now anyway. It's done.

Login or thread?

Did anyone find out how deep this dried mud/sloppy slurry on the road was?
That to me seems the only thing that would swing it one way or t'other

we found a secret pub in stratford, it's so rough round there that the landlord had no signs outside it and just kept watch for likely customers and invited them in 😆

Talke - are you in the Docklands?

We were on the 6th floor of Anchorage Point for just over a year (next to Cascade building). It was quite pleasant really but missed the countryside.

I think its near the watersports centre at the far west end of the Royal victoria dock, one of the hotels near there. I suspect I'll not have enough time to slope off for a pint or a ride; we're only there for a couple of days.
What bike shops in the centre then? Preferably not Evans; we've got one and it's a bit predictable..

Oh, and would you use Canning town subway or the DLR?

we always use the DLR from customs house when we are at Excel, the pub there (opposite the station, not the one on the Excel site) goes through phases of being excellent and crap. worth a try to get you away from the monstrously expensive bars in the hotels. There's also a chinese underneath the pub which is very good but expensive. There's also a second Fox pub at the other end of Excel near the cheaper hotels that is a bit more interesting, gets a few locals and has beer garden etc. bit scrotty though.

I've not been since the olympic building work got under way properly so it may have all changed.

http://www.nfuonline.com/Our-work/Regulation-and-Inputs/Health-and-safety/Mud-on-the-road/

Canning town subway

Subway?

It's the [b]Tube[/b]. A subway is a sandwich shop or an underpass beneath a road... 😉

Jubilee Line Tube gets you into central London via CW, London Bridge and Waterloo. Pretty quick. The DLR takes you to Bank or Tower Gateway, where you can change for the Central and Northern Lines (Bank) or the District and Circle Lines (both). You could scoot up to Stratford on the Jubilee Line too, and change for the Central Line. Might be quicker actually.

I'd be off seeing some sights, rather than bike shops tbh. But I suppose Condor on Grays Inn Rd (Chancery Lane Tube) is good for roadie stuff, or Cycle Surgery (Strype St branch) in Spitalifields (Liverpool St) for mtb stuff. Brick Lane Bikes is a 10 minute walk from there, for all sorts of retro fixie weirdness. But they're bike shops. Not that fascinating imo.

You'll only be just down the road from me, so if you change yer mind about a pint...

Enjoy.

Thanks for clearing that up Drac (no pun intended 😆 ). I would have looked for the same thing but couldn't be arsed last night.

bit scrotty though.

😆

There's a reason I don't drink in Canning Town...

Fair enough if you just fancy a quick drink without going too far, but tbh, a short journey to CW might be a better bet, as it's a little more 'genteel' round there!

Lol, I'm not coming [i]just[/i] to go to bike shops, but I do prefer them to shoe shops...
Mrs crikey has sorted out the trip, we're off to see 'Oliver' because I drunkenly said I like musicals, plus maybe Kew gardens on the Sunday.

No realistic chance of meeting; "you're going to meet someone you don't know after I've arranged a weekend away for the two of us?".

Ok, cheers for the info!

we found a secret pub in stratford, it's so rough round there that the landlord had no signs outside it and just kept watch for likely customers and invited them in

😯 Erm, somehow, I don't think that's a 'public house'...

Stratford has the pub where Iron Maiden first performed (Cart and Horses on Leytonstone Road). It is getting a little more gentrified now though, as house prices rocket (****ing Lympics). There are one or two quite nice 'Traditional East End Cockney Knees-Up' type pubs left, although sadly these are disappearing or are frequented by scrotes and wannabe villains.

Talke - are you in the Docklands?

We were on the 6th floor of Anchorage Point for just over a year (next to Cascade building).

Know it well. Not far from me. I'm a little further north in the 'scrotty' area of Poplar. Nice...

"you're going to meet someone you don't know after I've arranged a weekend away for the two of us?".

😆

And what's wrong with that???

Always up for showing STWers around. Give us a shout next time you're down maybe.

I'll probably be down on the 15th of July just for the day for another boring training day/conference, and would be free from 4.30 until I get my train back. I'll be in the Marylebone road/Euston-ish area and might (depending on the people I'm with) be able to get away for a pint or two...

...there is a very slender chance that I might get to come down the day before and be free on the evening of the 14th, but that's a very unlikely scenario...

You just don't like the fact that we're right.

How about, next time we're in the countryside, we 'accidentally' drop loads of litter? Eh? Of course we wouldn't, so why should the farmer not be held responsible and accountable for their actions?

you're right.. I really don't like the fact that you're right.. how very astute of you to notice.. you must be a real hero round your ends..

the fact that you will scream section 14 paragraph 4 and then attempt to sue someone for infringement makes you a proper little herbert in my book..

and I'm not talking about dropping pooh in the city centre so that part of your argument is nonsense..

I'm getting bored of this now too..

you're right.. I really don't like the fact that you're right

Sometimes, that's how life goes, unfortunately. 🙁

Never mind.

🙁

As a youngish lad starting out in the motor trade (21) i was given the job of ferrying a largish van to keswick to have some small paintowrk jobs carried out.

Whilst climbing a twisty piece of road past bassenthwaite lake i had the missfortune to come across a bend which was caked in cow muck. I say caked, more like a sheen of cow muck. I was doing no more than 40mph on an A road so wasnt speeding (The van wasnt capable of it) and was alert.

My first observation was not of losing control. There wasnt any noise or scrabbling for grip. The back end just slid out and it was all in slow motion. I steered into the skid to try to correct it but i bounced off the farmers wall then got flung backwards into the opposite wall. Whilst this was happening i realised i had no seatbelt on which wasnt a good idea.

I got out of the van, the farmer was running over at this time. I nearly slid on my arse because the road was slippy. Gave famer my details, pointed out the road and set off to the bodyshop. I took great delight in my opening line at the bodyshop

"You know that small job we had you doing, well its a little bigger now"

Next day i phoned the police just to make sure i didnt get into trouble and they informed me that their had been a possible fatal accident a few hours later on the same sie 🙁

I ended up with solicitors letters asking for statements etc. Didnt get called for any court hearings thankfully.

It did teach me a lesson. I was lucky and got away with a bit of whiplash and a new pair of undies.

You really have absolutely no idea, have you?

Well I've driven a tractor and trailer in the course of my employment in the past........does that help ?

Although I will admit that it was a long time ago when I was just a 19/20 year old kid..........have they changed very much ?

I'd sue his ass like the guy who wrote my car off, whiplash and hospital stay for driving like an idiot.

Maybe I should say forgive and forget etc...

£2000 personal injury paid by his insurance! Took me 3 months of physio.

If they don't give a monkies about the public and how dangerous it is they soon will and besides the farmer is insured.

"clear the mud from a very small area by the field entrance, if necessary lay some hardcore down. Then place a trough near the entrance - how you fill it with water is up to you - hose, rainwater, water in containers transported over, whatever. Next drive the tractor to the mud free area, dip a stiff broom in the water"

The longest trailers towable behind tractors are about 44ft plus drawbar(an artic lorry trailer), stick a tractor on the front and you're looking at about 20metres in length. Once you've handbrushed the 4-16 wheels of tractor plus implement/trailer of 0-12 wheels (which will take how long?) the mud is going to build up after a few repeats of that. So hardcore is out of the question. It pretty much has to be concrete or tarmac (which will need to cleaned each time too)?
Now to let other tractors into the field while you laboriously spend your day cleaning, you could well be needing space for another 20m tractor/trailer length to get in the field, put that 3x20m pad upto 3x40m, there'll probably be some king of queue building up so at least a 3x60m concrete pad in each and every field.
With grass, okay so you wouldn't have an artic trailer, but around 12-15m tractor/trailer (8 wheels) with a round trip of around 10mins (maybe 3 tractors/trailers on). You'd be needing maybe 3 times as many tractors/trailers/men to keep up with the 'harvester' in order to clean them each trip

"you could always invest in tractor mounted brushes"
They'd block up, and would never be stiff enough to 'sweep' the mud off, especially clay like mud. Plus the vast majority builds up in between the tread anyway so wouldn't make much difference

Okay, so not typical (nor my picture), but how do you get this much mud off with a brush? And how long would it take?
[img] [/img]
"Dirtworker FTW.... "
I don't think so ..

I'm not saying its not farmers responsibility to clean up their mess, but trying to have no muck on the road whatsoever is completely unworkable as far as I can work out. Signage is one short term compromise (not a brilliant one), but is at least 'workable'

Building sites typically have more traffic and all day every day, rather than a 'freak' intensive harvest period a field may get for an hour or two (as outlined above), not that it makes any difference in law

Horses get to crap on the road and the riders don't have to pick it up (yet dog walkers are supposed to)?

Okay, so not typical (nor my picture), but how do you get this much mud off with a brush? And how long would it take?

Quite a lot. How long it takes is completely irrelevant - it reminds of an argument I once had with a guy who claimed you could only wait so long before overtaking a cyclist.

But I will tell you that cleaning mud off the exposed wheels of a tractor is going to be a whole quicker and easier than cleaning the mud off a dirty great big muckaway lorry, with it's inaccessible wheels and double axles in between which everything, and the kitchen sink, get stuck/jammed.

Somehow construction sites don't get away with the [i]"long would it take?"[/i] argument.

[b][i]"but trying to have no muck on the road whatsoever"[/i][/b]

I don't think anyone has suggested that.

.

You really have absolutely no idea, have you?

I saw a cah once. Ollie tried to touch it, but it runded away.

[img] [/img]

Daisy says: 'Moo, quite frankly'.

Horses get to crap on the road and the riders don't have to pick it up

. Ollie tried to touch it, but it runded away.

you have NO proof of that officer
[img] [/img]

oh, someone else, well never mind, errr, ahem.