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How do normal people afford to go back to work full time after having a baby? Average nursery in my area is over £2k a month for 5 days. That’s more than most peoples mortgage. I’d bet on it exceeding salary for many.
Any tricks I’m not thinking of?
We were looking at a child minder. However, I've managed to persuade work I can work 4 days, but same hours. Just doing that has saved 400 a month. Wife will have a day off too in the week then with gparents.
But when looking at nursery fees, it just shocked us. Only will have one child I think. The costs are astronomical for child care.
Childcare vouchers and a promotion helped me out.
Childcare vouchers or whatever the current equivalent are, that's the only "trick".
You can get a bit back in tax using the child care account scheme (see gov.uk for details). It's easy to use once set up.
Also you start to get some free childcare hours from 2years in England or 3 in Scotland.
But those first few years suck.
Partner is 3.5 days a week (2 week timetable) grand parents one day a week. It is a massive cost and I think the single biggest reason behind the whole gender inequality thing. You have to be on a decent wage and have some form of external help like we do to make going back to work pay. At one point my partner was on agency and it worked out as £40 a day she worked for (pre tax), take out fuel and it was probably more like £35 or less.
I am not sure what the solution is but it does seem strange the way there are no hours until 3 years old.
Was similar for us, I’m sure the same place will be over 2k now for 5 days. Their fee structure was barely cheaper for 4 days, most 4 day workers have Monday or Friday off and it’s hard to fill the place.
Max out tax free childcare, check if there’s any discounts (they did NHS discount which wife qualified for) and remember it gets cheaper one the free hours (from quarter after 3rd birthday)
kick in.
Ours were 2 years apart, so a heavy year when they were both in full time nursery.
Interesting, cheers.
So is universal credit available to most people with kids?
Any tricks I’m not thinking of?
Perhaps one of you stay at home and look after your own child ?
Call me controversial if you like , but the "traditional" route worked out well for us 😉
Did the same as above. Told the wife to give up work to look after the child. as Revs1972 says, the traditional thing seems to be out of fashion but worked for us.
Also saves one person exclusively working to line someone elses pockets (nursery)
Tough one for all families - we used a local childminder with eldest, who was great, and MrsMC went part time.
When the second came along, it didn't make financial sense for her to work, we just tightened our belts, used childcare vouchers for pre-school when eligible, then I did a 9 day fortnight when MrsMC found a paying job one day a fortnight.
I know a mate of mine was paying more in childcare than he earned, and I asked why he didn't quit work and be a stay at home dad, but he was playing the long game with his pension contributions.
In my case no worries, that makes sense.
I’m thinking of the younger generation. Many I know rely on two salaries to cover rent, mortgage if they are lucky. Tag that challenge against inflation and market shrinkage and I don’t think we have to worry too much about population growth.
As above, just have one parent stay at home. Hell, you could even make a bit of extra by looking after another child.
Surely folk think about these things beforehand? You could call it family planning.
The traditional approach Works well if your ina career path that a. Allows it and b. Isn't prohibitive to return. A gap for child care is still a stigma in interviews I've fought dinosaurs on panels over suitable candidates with gaps explained by "child care"
Because her job allows my Wife went part time.
My job - part time is not an option in my role but I'd have liked to have gone to 4 days.
Child care is 550 quid for 3 days and even at that I'm really happy we are approaching 3. If it was 2 grand a month/child up here I think I'd seriously be considering not working regardless of any career or job aspirations that were ever had.....I don't earn enough to consider spending that on childcare to buy the continuation of my career
As above, just have one parent stay at home.
Straw poll all those that successfully used this option. Which decade was this in ?
Sounding dangerously like we are suggesting that you need to be well off/financially secure to have children these days - it's largely a broken society that's at fault here not the parents of unplanned children.
To those suggesting you ‘just have a parent stay at home’ what if one parents salary doesn’t cover the mortgage etc?
To those suggesting you ‘just have a parent stay at home’ what if one parents salary doesn’t cover the mortgage etc?
But from the OP first post , we are talking about when childcare costs could be higher than salary
Straw poll all those that successfully used this option. Which decade was this in ?
2007 and 2013 for me
Any tricks I’m not thinking of?
Vasectomy?
May be too late for that though! 🙂
All the family planning in the world is only going to tell the average couple they can’t afford 1 kid, let alone 2 😂
Sounding dangerously like we are suggesting that you need to be well off/financially secure to have children these day
Why is that such a bad thing ? We waited until we were financially capable of supporting our children. Because of a number of issues, not least miscarriages, we were both mid thirties by the time we had them ( we met when we were 30).
We were not rich by any means, just about had enough to cover costs. Even if I was in the financial position I am in now back then, my wife would have still left her job to become a mother ( it is what she wanted ). She has not expressed any desire to go back to work and now fills her days when the kids are at school doing voluntary work and looking for holidays 😉
Straw poll all those that successfully used this option. Which decade was this in ?
2004-to date - I'm currently the part timer and have been the last 5 years. MrsMC earns more than me.
What else have we done? We relocated from Sussex to Derby to be able to afford to start a family on one salary. We've had one foreign holiday in 19 years. Took us 20 years in this house to get the money together to do up the kitchen. We have second hand Skodas rather than new cars from "better" brands.
We've got a nanny who costs us a couple of hundred a month more than the missus brings home after everyone's tax and ni is accounted for. Mrscruffy and I stagger our working hours so we can keep the hours down as much as possible. We've had 3 lots of very good maternity pay so not too bad.
Not sure how we're going to do it when they are all at school and need the school run doing twice a day
Why is that such a bad thing ?
Are you really so unaware of the world today that you need me to explain that or are you just purposefully being devil's advocate.
Just to be clear, I’m old and haven’t just had an unplanned child 😂😂
I’m just trying to work out how the current / next generation are going to have kids to fund my pension and healthcare in old age…
Flippant answer,: move abroad. Childcare is better funded.
But it's also what I did. Moved out of UK to be able to save for a house deposit and start a family.
We pay 600e/month for 5 days/week at the local commune creche. It's open from 7am to 6pm too.
A former colleague in Wimbledon had 3 nannies for her two kids over the week. It was cheaper than a nursery, and yet all of her salary went towards this.
If either of your employer's has a relocation/internal transfer/ training abroad scheme, do it!
A mate qualified as a child carer. Looks after his and earns money looking after other folks kids. Helps that he lives in a suitable area and has a big enough house/garden.
2 kids 2 years apart here. The cost is horrific. I went compacted full time to gain a day a fortnight, wife went part time.
Twins, 2 and half years old, no sibling discount, both 3.5 days a week, separated parents, no grand parents on hand, no other family support. 17.5hrs free when they reach 3yrs old.
Both parents have decent jobs and incomes but are frugal as needs must.
When they get to school that monthly fee is going on coke and hookers until I've forgot about the past couple of years.
Not complaining though, I knew child costs would be astronomical before they came along, and they're bonny lads.
Why is that such a bad thing ?
Are you really so unaware of the world today that you need me to explain that or are you just purposefully being devil’s advocate
It's a fair point.
We use money to 'ration' pretty much everything else. The size and location of your house, how many holidays you take and where, even what you eat.
All these are decided by how much money you have/how you prioritise spending it.
Why should having children be any different?
I would like a horse but I can't have one because I don't have enough money for a field/stable/groom/horse so therefore I haven't got one.
Defo look at child minders in your area. Speak to other parents, check out the various online portals and apps (Bubble?) and see who's out there.
We opted to use a nursery for 3 days a week to give monkey the benefits of a bigger/busier environment, and got lucky with a local child minder who was amazing and insanely cheap for the other 2 days. She didn't do it for the money, she'd fallen into it 30 years prior after looking after her daughters, and basically became a proper nanny to monkey. It may have helped that she had an epic garden and pool, which the kids had supervised access to, but IMO she was just plain brilliant. All the kids loved her.
FTR, monkey continued going to her several afternoons a week after starting school.
Yes, emigrate.
Even before the ex and i did it, a decade and a half ago, childcare in the UK was about half one of our take home per month per child.
There are two of them now, the most we paid for childcare (high quality, good child/carer ratios, proper food etc) was about £200 a month, for both of them, 45 hours a week.
Britain is very backward for childcare provision under 3.
It's not just a problem for the immediate parents - the countless teachers, nurses, and other workers that we so badly need simply have to stop working in many cases as their wage doesn't cover childcare. Getting mums back to work isn't only about their own rights, it's also important for the economy.
My wife's job is to look after our 3 young kids. It's incredibly hard but incredibly rewarding. They are only young once and my oh my they grow fast! She/we are very unusual around here, but we actually know our kids. We've overheated other parents talking in playgrounds at the weekend and it's evident they don't feel comfortable being responsible for their own kids. Today's way of life seems to strongly value employment and not value parenting. why have kids and pay others to bring them up?
It’s a fair point.
Yes and a reasonable counter arguement if you were a tory party member .
I was born to two factory workers in the 80s .
Thanks to circumstance they were able to buy a home with help from society.( Right to buy) cost them 29k . They sold it for many years later in the early 2000s for 45 it's recently been in the market for 155k.
Are two main wage workers going to get a loan for that these days.
What about heating it.
Food for all?
Even two median income jobs that's a fight if you started today ... And rents nigh on match mortgages in most cases thanks to "investors"
The other hilarity is child cares incredibly expensive yet those we trust our kids too....are paid barely a living wage in many cases.
I gave up my job to look after my kids full time. The stress of part time working in a senior position combined with the cost of childcare, long days, and kids starting school just didn’t stack up.
Being at home full time was hard work but lovely. I’m glad I did it, because I think my kids have benefited, but…
…ultimately I think it was a contributing factor in my divorce and the loss of earning potential is not something that is easy to get compensated for - you need the cash to pursue that argument via solicitors, and if you’ve not been working that well paid job you used to have...
It’s not a fun discussion to have, but giving up a job is a big deal - and there is often (usually?) an assumption it’s the mother that will give up their career. Which kind of illustrates that it is an equality issue. Talking through how that’s going to look not just while nursery bills apply, but in the longer term, could save a lot of resentment later.
How does each person get their own leisure time, or pay for that, if one is earning? Does the earner get to decide how any disposable income is spent? What do weekends look like? How does the non earner retain autonomy? What happens if they never get back to full time, or where their salary was? IMO it almost needs a pre-nuptial style agreement. There’s a lot to be gained, but plenty to be lost too.
Having kids without a network of relatives around is hard! Modern society is pretty badly set up for it (unless you’re in a Scandinavian country).
(Sorry, hardly a cheery post!)
We use money to ‘ration’ pretty much everything else. The size and location of your house, how many holidays you take and where, even what you eat.
Ah, but all those things have a qualifier that weeds out the unworthy, you have to pay up front (or be worthy of credit), but anyone fertile has qualified to have a kid. And once born they're not easily repossessed...
What about people that actually keep society running, let’s say couples comprising of two:
Nurses
HCA’s
Dustmen
Delivery Drivers
In all seriously at £2k+ a month even as a female Dr on £60k pa I’d seriously consider throwing it to look after kid/s.
Don’t quite understand how you can maintain sustainable communities with this over large parts of the country.
Fine for anyone in laptop class that bought their house in the 90’s / 00’s. I’m aware enough to realise that I would be in trouble if on same salary trying to buy house and kick off family today…
We just struggled through the first two years, what really sucked for us was that my wife only got 6 weeks paid maternity leave, 2 of those were spent in the hospital due to complications, our daughter was the youngest in nursery by a few months, a lot of work places are 3 or 6 months, with add ons and so on.
Childcare vouchers did help, as did only doing nursery 3 days a week, the best bit though is when she hit 3 and we got the 30 hours childcare a week, but you need a place to get that, and to get a place most of the time you already have to have your child in there, so not a lot of room to look after them until 3 and stick them in childcare.
Around here we notice that grandparents do a lot of shifts as childminders, guess its similar around the country, wander in a town centre during the day and there's a fair few 50-70 year olds pushing prams, i guess that's the cheapest way of doing it!
and there is often (usually?) an assumption it’s the mother that will give up their career. Which kind of illustrates that it is an equality issue.
There's more than one househusband on this forum. I know of other couples where the womain was the main breadwinner and remained so.
How does each person get their own leisure time,
Share it out.
or pay for that, if one is earning?
Share it out.
Does the earner get to decide how any disposable income is spent?
It's shared decisions.
What do weekends look like?
Same as they usually do. Probably a mix of family time and "solo" time depending upon circumstances.
How does the non earner retain autonomy?
Same as anyone does when they are part of a couple.
What happens if they never get back to full time, or where their salary was?
Then the situation stays the same for a long time.
Your personal experience might colour your judgement of these issues but it works for lots of other folk.
Is it really over 2 grand a month or is that some funny business with terms and not paying some months? 2k per month with 1 week off for Xmas would be £95 per day, that's about 50% more than it costs around here (south east commuter belt). Sure it's expensive, but it's not 2k.
£60 a day is around £15,000 per year and the government give you £2k of that. Every full time worker pulls home more than £11k after tax so it's always worth going back financially, but a lot of folks choose not to.
Our youngest just turned 3 so it only gets cheaper from here on up.
trail_rat+1
Sweamrs (mid 30's) recently had a (successful) interview for a senior role using a 3rd party recruitment firm. Midway through the interview "Are you aware of anything in the next 3-5 years that might impact your ability to deliver in this role???" She told them to mind their own business and having now got the job is letting HR now they probably shouldn't use said organisation again.
There's still too many dinosaurs in senior positions; and those who think "trailing spouses" are also okay are just as bad as those who ask women loaded questions....
My OH looked after a friend child one day and vice versa. Grandparents can also help out, but that gets trickier if you have kids later.
But yes, I don't know how people can afford it. Guess that's why fertility rate in the developed world is plummeting. What is it a out 1.4 or 1.5 now??
1.6 for England and Wales
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A colleague of mine was a brutality efficient
finance analyst. He worked out that I was doing my stressful job for a net gain of 20p per hour when my kids were in nursery. That included using childcare voucher scheme
We had two 15 months apart and 3rd three years later so was in for thousands a month for years. It got us used to not having as much disposable income and when they came out we saved the money rather than blowing it on coke, hookers, Santa Cruzes and Audis. It was the best thing we ever did.
Your personal experience might colour your judgement of these issues but it works for lots of other folk.
However her experiance sadly is very common more so as purse strings tighten and things get tough and so is as valid as *share it out*
And once born they’re not easily repossessed…
That's why being financially stable is a poor measure of your worth to have a kid.
It is not a long term guaranteed state for most folk. It is but a transient state we dip on and out of. It's a measure at a single point in time
Majority of folk even when they consider them selves stable are 1-2 pay cheques away from not being so.
The more fortunate might be a year or 2 away - but that's just a serious illness or accident - it does and can happen more often than you think.
Kid doesn't go away at this point.
Flip side of waiting is how difficult it can become to get pregnant.... We are later parents by traditional standards as we were doing the financially stable thing...... We realised it was a fallacy and you'd never reach that stage and just got on with it. So many folk we know have waited till they got "financially stable"- then found out sadly either no Bueno or spent their pot on IVF.
I see quite a lot of this working in a primary school. Too many alternatives to list but one thing does stick out. I see many of those who struggle actually having money but not spending it wisely. This week, 2 actually) we have a child off on holiday. Her attendance is shocking and would be even worse if there wasn't a misguided move by the head to be somewhat flexible with the register times. (so granny can do the morning care) Granny can't get this kid 2 miles on time despite not working or having transport problems. What irritates me is that the family can afford flash cars, even flaher iphones etc and a 2 week holiday in Egypt yet can't sort decent wrap around care. Child id often pick up late. A bright 9 year old means that we know full well that granny can't organise crap and mum thinks that the world owes her a living.
Not all situation are like this but many people seem to think that kids and other people supporting them are a given right.
We pay £44 AM / £38 PM in the South Wales Valleys x2 for both lads.
The Gov tax credit allows a max of £500 per child every 3 months so is always maxed by the last month so your just using what ever change you have left.
Mum is the main bread winner and negotiated a 4 day week but tbh makes up that 5th days hours in the evenings, she has a job where slipping behind the curve for too long would negatively effect her career, even though she'd much rather be with the lads at home, but being separated also doesn't allow for that. I've managed to tweek my hours so finish at 12pm on a Friday which removes an afternoon, it all helps.
All this will pass and I'd still do it again so just forget about any disposable income and suck it up for a few years if both are going back to work.
Not sure about the comment about people who use child care not feeling that they can be responsible for their own children, that's total madness.
Our children were in nursery in the period 2003-2009. Though both were in together for only half that time.
SO was a senior doctor at the time. We both earned similar amounts then.
It was surprisingly tight for that period. And we had planned the finances meticulously.
If we were in the same position today it’d be similar to the OP’s I suppose as nursery fees have, reasonably, increased but Dr’s wages have fallen way behind.
Emigrating does seem a reasonable idea.
A colleague of mine was a brutality efficient
finance analyst
Maybe, but did this person factor in NI contributions and intangibles like social interaction, happiness, future ROI? +20p/hour is a bit meh but working in a job today has other immediate benefits and future benefits to consider.
Grandparents, well mainly one grandparent (MIL) who has probably saved us tens of thousands.
Plus my wife chose reduced (flexible) hours. We still put them into nursery for a couple of days a week, but we were extremely lucky with local family support.
Our lads were in hospital 6 weeks post birth and came home on the week the first lockdown started, for the first 6 months they saw no one but Mum and Dad, even after that it was very rare chats over the garden gate, so the social aspect was always something we wanted to bring in later on, 3.5 days gives a good balance. Having been to a nursery parents evening this week it's good to hear about them starting to make friends and build there own relationships which they are just starting to do.
Straw poll all those that successfully used this option. Which decade was this in ?
2014 until now. As per MCD no holidays abroad and a cheap car. House needs lots of work doing and we spend carefully. We always agreed that one of us would stay at home whilst they were little. Youngest starts school this year so Mrs F will be working part time.
I was just gutted that it wasn’t me that got to stay with them tbh. Everyone is different and what works for one doesn’t for the next. It was/is just the right thing for us.
For perspective, When we had ours (90's) there was next to no financial 'support' and mortgage rates were in double figures. We had to scrape by too.
My OH didn't work for the first few years and then when my OH wanted to go back to work we got a Nanny as it was actually cheaper than nurseries etc (for 2 close together). Another benefit of a Nanny is that they come to you, so makes mornings so much less stressful.
I don't have kids partly because of the financial impact. But what I just can't understand is what the point of having kids is, if you are just going to bugger off to work for most of the hours they are awake, leaving someone else to bring them up?
It's like buying yourself a classic car, paying all the costs, then paying someone else to drive it around all day whilst you're at work. Then being too knackered to drive it yourself at weekends.
Hidden option might be to look into a further education course (full-time or part-time) which provides childcare funding, enabling one partner to gain qualifications while the children are young.
Agree with everything Hannah said.
What should people do instead boriselbrus? Did your parents not work??
I live in France. Smallest NewRetro is in creche which is €1.95 per hour, so works out at about €330 per month if he's there 20 days.
Children start school (ecole maternelle) in the year they turn 3, so his older sister has been at school since she was 3 and 2 months.
Another +1 for Hannah. My wife and I had a long hard talk / time with a calculator before we decided to send our kids to nursery, and then we decided only 3 days per week. My wife worked part time to keep her career going and at the time her net wages was about £75 a month to herself as spending money. Naturally we shared our resources as Scotroutes alludes to.
There was pressure on me to keep working and I spent 3 years of that bored in job I could do with my eyes closed purely for the financial continuity, then helped her back to work when our youngest finally went to school.
So the only thing we really benefited from as a couple was that she’s been able to return to work having kept up with her industry.
But for the kids - I’m not sure I’ve seen it posted - another consideration is the childrens social development. Keeping them stuck indoors with parents for 4-5yrs can often be less fruitful than having them in an environment with other children and receiving pre-school learning experiences to help their development. This was also part of our decision.
I don’t have kids
Kinda qualifies the rest of your post tbh. Go and spend some time with people that do to answer your question.
Back when my kid was born, we looked into childcare ....£50 a day it was back then ...I was self employed and subbed out to a company taking £120 a day
OK I thought £50 2a day ain't bad with the wife working also....but the crucher was....they wanted us to pay for their holidays too...so when they shut down for Xmas for the week I've got to pay even tho I'll be at home not earning.
Well we soon put that to rest....I stayed at home full time (no grandparents to help us) till my kid started school.....Best thing ever, we had loads of adventures...
If you can do it and scrimp by (just) then I highly recommend it...looking back at all the photos I took ....money can't buy that or the memory's
She/we are very unusual around here, but we actually know our kids.
This is easily overlooked. I've seen friends (both male and female, depending on how they've worked things out) totally disconnected from their kids and have seen behavioural and other things like dyslexia slip under the radar as they have been so busy working to pay for childcare that they've not been able to spend enough time with their kids. And you don't get it back.
Hannah makes some great points as well. MrsMC was happy to spend time with the kids but I turned down promotion opportunities to be around the kids more and especially to help MrsMC keep her challenging career going part-time, until eventually it was easier for me to be the part-timer.
That takes some getting your head around, even if you think you are an enlightened modern man, and now I am using my part time hours to support my ageing patents as well. At least I understand more about what women have been struggling with for decades
We had two in nursery for two years and it was savage on the income. That was only three days a week as my partner went part time. This prevented us from upsizing. Quite glad we didn’t to be fair now as the extra cash would’ve been sunk into a larger mortgage. Luckily we can absorb this rise in cost of living as we’ve been used to high outgoings. So glad we didn’t stretch ourselves.
For perspective, When we had ours (90’s) there was next to no financial ‘support’ and mortgage rates were in double figures. We had to scrape by too.
Well there was my parents utilised it .... Or was it just in Scotland. The very fact you could scrape by and had a mortgage suggests you were not on a minimum wages job back then.
As I said systems broken but also as mattccm suggests widely abused I don't have an answer for that but we should be helping to a minimal standard of living costs by way of ensuring the receiver has no choice by utilise it to the minimum standard .... Ie energy costs or food costs.
I have neighbours who have disabled children(requiring care) who are in fully funded housing and they cannot afford to heat their home right now due to the cost of living increases.
But shit I guess thats their fault for their choices....
Two kids 5 and 7. Planned.
Both work as nurses.
Both have taken turns at being part time.
My wife is now full time and the bigger earner with better job. She was part time for 7 years though at 28 hours.
I was full time but half NHS, half agency work as it afforded more flexibility.
I was in a managerial position before kids. I'm now at the bottom of ladder job role wise as it gives more flexibility and less pressure to commit to work's needs rather than the families.
I currently work 24 hours over two days plus two agency shifts a month to top up the wage.
At one point we paid £1000 a month in childcare. It was unsustainable.
In theory we could both work full time now they are both in school but I feel they need us to be around. They are young.
I'd also like to (desperate to) change career but as it stands I've got a lot of flexibility and days off.
Long story short:
Put career and earnings on hold for the kids but then we are around for them whilst they are young.
We are in the fortunate position where OH (teacher) was able to drop to a 0.5 contract on birth of number 1, that was 6 years ago and number 2 is now 2.
We are super fortunate in having grandparents nearby who do one day each, and then one day at nursery. It’s been extremely balanced - kids both know and love their grannies, some quality time with mum and some nursery experience.
Even one day a week at nursery is over £260 a month here, and we still have the problems of ill children and covering etc, despite the huge advantages mentioned above. We are desperately lucky and don’t forget it.
What worries me more is the behaviour I see in the workplace, which surely impacts people trying to maintain their family. One of my team is a full time working single mum (like my mum was), the lack of understanding and flexibility she’s experienced is truly appalling. Another is a full time working mum, and her partner works full time. The negative conscious/unconscious bias that seems to have existed about her dual role (whether that’s who should take time to look after the kids or the lack of flexibility and understanding to manage a balance) is also appalling.
Two kids 5 and 7. Planned.
Both work as nurses.
Saves on childcare I guess.
What should people do instead boriselbrus? Did your parents not work??
Not when we were preschool age. Quite uncommon when I was a kid to have two working parents (late 70’s and early 80’s). It’s a choice like anything else. I just think you’re missing out if you don’t spend that much time with your kids. Just my opinion, others differ.
We pay 600e/month for 5 days/week at the local commune creche. It’s open from 7am to 6pm too.
I think the times here are important we really struggled to find somewhere open @07:30 most places open at 08:00 and considering how common it is to have 08:00 start time I was amazed at this gap.
Quite uncommon when I was a kid to have two working parents (late 70’s and early 80’s).
We also are not in Kansas anymore toto.
It's crazy and most nurseries are close going under too.
My wife is danish and there childcare is pretty much free. Both parents always work and equality is therefore far greater. In turn it seems to be the reason for divorces being much more amicable because both parties are coming from an equal footing.
Just coming to the end of this - Jr is 4 this Summer and starts school this time round. Mum had a year off Maternity (becuase we'd saved up specifically to cover this beforehand).
He went to Nursery as soon as he was 1 - so hes had 3 full years.
We worked out that at £52 a day, 3 days a week was the right balance for us. We are lucky that we can lean on Grandparents for 1 day most weeks, and thus that allowed Mum to go to work p/t 4 days a week. It was basically cost neutral.
If she'd have stayed at home, we'd be about the same finanical situation now, but she would have basically curtailed her career. As it is, from September shes going back to work full time. Its also been really important that she spends time as her own functioning adult, not just 'mum' and has some friends from work outside of the usual school mum friends and family.
A few points:
30hrs free childcare: This is more complex than you think - I was expecting our bills to drop massively last year when it kicked in but it covers the 'childcare' aspect alone - so we still have to pay nursery for food/trips/consumables etc. And its ONLY during term time (38 weeks a year?). When the years bill was amortized across 12 months it wasnt as much of a discount as I first hoped.
School wraparound: When he starts in September, we STILL have to pay for wraparound childcare. As we will now both be 5 days a week, thats £75 to be able to drop him off a 7 not half 8, and pickup and 5-6pm.
Everyone is different - we are very lucky and have Grandparents available, I earn OK money, and crucially both do regular Mon-Friday hours and Mums job is term time only - so it fits the 'school life' very well. The majority of the costs over the 3 years have come out of my wage pre-tax. Shift work etc makes it much, much more complicated.
Get the information from the .Gov and your employers on what you can claim or get help with, and do the calulations. Splitting down the middle with part time working/part time stay at home parenting, for us, was the right answer.
Finally - there is a 'value' to Nursery. Nursery nowadays is a proper educational establishment with a curriculum. Even with mum teaching Primary age kids herself, Nursery has been brilliant. He loves it, the staff are great, he has had IMO a much, much more rounded upbringing from 1-4 than he would have being with the same parents all day every day.
Well there was my parents utilised it …. Or was it just in Scotland. The very fact you could scrape by and had a mortgage suggests you were not on a minimum wages job back then.
Who said anything about "minimum wages job"? If anyone is on a minimum wage job then or now paying someone more to look after their kids is just plain daft.
Oh, and when we had ours my OH got only 6 weeks full pay then 6 weeks half pay maternity and I was deducted both days I had off for their births from my holiday allowance. Had it easy...
Ok boomer.
What area is £2k a month for nursery, central London? I have friends in London who haven't seem to have wised up that the 'extra pay' doesn't cover the living costs. I'm just a 30 minute train ride from London and nursery is £1100 a month.
2 options
1. Dont have kids
2. Factor in 1 of you not working until the kids can go to school like my and many other parents did
I think our son cost us £1300 a month at nursery.
My wife loves her job and it would have been bad for her mentally and in terms of career to take a break (she didn't want to).
We put our son in full time and he loved it, seems to have transferred well to school too.
We did have the advantage of being able to shift our hours though so one of us could do a drop off and the other collect.
Still got to spend lots of time with him and we all did well from the arrangement as far as i can see. 2 happy parents and one will adjusted (apart from being a bit daft) nearly 7 yr old
We have 2 kids 2 years apart and had one year where both kids were in nursery 3 days a week. My wife and I both went down to 4 days a week, but it did hurt us for a while. we were paying 1k a month for a year but that was arout 2013 it was quite a bit cheaper than now, ours was just short of £40 a day, but we didn't earn anywhere near what we do now. Even then though I know there were nurseries in other areas, posh bits of Leeds, Roundhay ect. that were charging £70+ a day and they had waiting lists!!
My wife earns more than me and her career is better than mine, but I'm not sure I'd have managed as a full time stay at dad. I'd have given it a go if we needed to though. Actually I did for a while with my eldest when I was made redundant....
We knew that getting through that year financially would stand us in good stead so managed. We got them into the local primary school nursery as soon as we could though!
Let's be clear, this isn't the 70s/80s/90s. Average house prices are 8x average earnings. in the 70s it was almost 1:1, in the 80s 2:1 and in the 90s 3:1. It's now OVER 8:1. Unless you're living in an area with extremely cheap housing, were able to buy with inherited money or are in the privileged position to have a single income which is => 3x the average wages (or some combination of the above), 1 person staying off work, full time, for 3.5 years isn't a possibility.
There are other factors too. 2 kids, 2 years apart, that's 5.5years of no national insurance contributions, no pension contribution, no career growth, NOTHING for the person staying home. In a society which encourages people to go to Uni and be professionals, demonstrate career growth and commitment to it, this can seriously harm someone's long term career prospects. in the 70s/80s/90s, more work was blue collar and skilled white collar, not professionals.
What's more, is that people these days have to move around a lot more for work, which means that many families are geographically dispersed, so limited supports.
We've had two kids, both went to nursery, both made use of childcare vouchers and 15h (later 30h of free childcare), we have no family within 300 miles, for the first we had no maternity pay (my wife was just finishing her PhD) and my wife stayed home foe 18m with my son, we survived on £30k and savings...£24k a year post tax, pension and student loan repayment...rent (Bristol) was over £12k of that... We made the decision that I'd do compressed hours at work (40h in 3.5days was the contract) and that my wife would secure a job in her field for not less than £30k. Childcare was for 3.5 days, still an average of £1000 a month. We had a tiny amount more money, but my wife's career got started, my son got to socialise with other people and he still got to spend more than half his days with a parent. I've now done this for 8 years, through 2 kids. It's properly, debilitatingly ****ing hard. I've turned down jobs which pay more, but offer less flexibility, but it's the right balance of future planning, social need and career requirements. it's also fair...on everyone.
I see kids who go to school for the first time having spent their first 4 years with a limited social group and school is hard and miserable for them, they struggle with school trips, they're introverted, etc, this is especially true if they're an only child.
Nursery has benefits, but by God is it costly for full time, especially if wraparound care is required.
Not when we were preschool age. Quite uncommon when I was a kid to have two working parents (late 70’s and early 80’s). It’s a choice like anything else
It was also unnecessary to have two incomes to make ends meet in the 70s. House prices have risen so much relative to wages that the old nuclear family norm no longer works unless one parents has a very well paying job.