[Closed] Now the fire service personnel are due to strike

I didn't think they were allowed to strike. I do remember this happening when I was a kid though. We had the 'green goddess' army fire engines filling in in our area.

School teachers I imagine.

Kids will go uneducated, procreate madly and end up on the dole.........hmmmm.

Jeez, is someone planning to stop their second jobs ?

That's nice of them.

Now the British Army, already overstretched and very often paid less than firemen will have to step in to provide cover and put themselves at enhanced risk by using clapped out kit because they're not trained to use the lovely shiny Fire Service gear.

I can't believe striking isn't illegal for the emergency services, it should be.

Yes, because its not like Trumpton have ever been on strike before is it? Just look at the devastation caused last time, and the time before that, oh, and the time before that... oh, maybe not after all eh!

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we have had the BA crews, the BAA, lot, and many others,and they only caused slight disruptions.

Have BAA gone on strike ? BA crews certainly took limited strike action, but who are the [i]"many others"[/i]

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If it was the local council workers, possibly nobody would notice the difference

Possibly because there aren't many council workers left ?

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Project - does a day ever pass when you don't take a swipe at public sector workers ?

I am?
Really?
hmmm. Why am I the last to know?

BA, BAA, ... ?

can't imagine who it'll be next, Bristol Association of Ardent Anglers must be worth a punt

(or maybe [url= http://www.blacksheepbrewery.com/ ]this lot[/url])

Why am I the last to know?

Because unlike project you don't read the Daily Mail ?

I'm in work, looking at the FBU notice board, there's nothing about us going on strike, where'd you see/hear this Project?

A.

Didn't they strike in 2001 or so?

[b]BelfastAndy - Member
I'm in work, looking at the FBU notice board, there's nothing about us going on strike, where'd you see/hear this Project?

A.

Posted 59 seconds ago # Report-Post[/b]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-11043768

London Town to start with and im sure there where other counties as well

They haven't announced strikes then, just a ballot on industrial that [i]could[/i] result in strike action

Also

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-south-east-wales-10736478

Apologies for the Daily Mail type headline.

London firefighters to vote on industrial action

So it's just London. And they haven't decided yet.

Still, why let the facts stop you from having a swipe at public sector workers, eh project ?

They haven't announced strikes then, just a ballot on industrial that could result in strike action

Never let the facts get in the way of a half-arsed reactionary right wing rant.

just a ballot on industrial that could result in strike action

That's too long for project to wait.

If only we could privatise the fire service......

It was until the second world war i believe.

from the BBC article...

The union said it will ballot about 6,000 members in the capital on action short of a strike.

****
A.

Believe me after the last successful strike, you'll not find a lot of FF's willing to do it again!

First I heard about it as well.

That's nice of them.

Now the British Army, already overstretched and [s]very often[/s] paid less than firemen will have to step in to provide cover and put themselves at enhanced risk by using clapped out kit because they're not trained to use the lovely shiny Fire Service gear.

I can't believe striking isn't illegal for the emergency services, it should be.

+1 and corrected

What are the proposals ? All I can find are 'longer days and shorter nights' whatever that means!

In fairness, I don't know the fire situation but within the ambulance service we have umpteen reasons to strike. All leave from august to october cancelled? Contractual pay rises not granted? Its all well and good saying the emergency services shouldn't be able to strike, but did you ever stop to wonder why? Yeah the fire service have a pretty good deal, but they wouldn't gamble that on a whim. there was a big kick off in south yorks recently about shift changes and everyone said "its so they can work two jobs". Could also be so they can look after their kids/care for relatives/ have some quality of life? no one joins the emergency services for the benefits, but imagine if all you IT workers lost all your perks over night. Would you stand for it?

So not striking at all then, sounds more of working to rule and only in London.

The Fire Service is going through big changes again mainly from the knock on from the last strike, no not the one in the 70s, the settled but not with out some 'compromise' on short of what the fool leader of the FBU promised them.

I'd say their members will be cautious this time after that mess.

meehaja

What's the reason for the leave situation and were people forced to cancel holidays?

@ernie_lynch

Possibly because there aren't many council workers left ?

Have you seen this:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11034769

If a 12% efficiency increase in local government workers could result in 500,000 fewer jobs being needed, this means that there are approximately 4,000,000 people employed in local government, which is still quite a few I think.

To give this some context, there are approximately 1.5 million employees in the NHS.

backhander - Member

That's nice of them.

Now the [b]Armed Forces[/b], already overstretched and [s]very often[/s] paid less than firemen will have to step in to provide cover and put themselves at enhanced risk by using clapped out kit because they're not trained to use the lovely shiny Fire Service gear.

I can't believe striking isn't illegal for the emergency services, it should be.

Corrected for accuracy. It was a Joint effort - not just the Army - when the idle, change-resistant inefficient firemen last went out, put lives at risk and had to be covered by more capable people who got on with the job in hand with surprisingly effective results.
The police aren't allowed to strike - how the back-sliding firemen get away with it is beyond me.

this means that there are approximately 4,000,000 people employed in local government, which is still quite a few I think.

who do you think writes all the 'out to lunch' and 'closing early' signs?

- management consultancy Knox D'Arcy.

Junior staff in local authorities were, on average, productive only 32% of the time during working hours

To put it in context the private sector only manages 44%, but thats still 37% better.
- Dave Prentis

It is a red herring to compare private and public sector productivity

How can you measure the productivity of a care worker and compare it with a car worker on a production line?

School teachers I imagine.

Kids will go uneducated, procreate madly and end up on the dole.........hmmmm.

cant see teacher striking just yet, we can stomach a pay freeze. Start messing with pensions and the dogs of war would be unleashed though.

I work in the private sector, however my friend is a parmedic in london and she gets screwed hard. She works 6/7-6 and apart from once I've never know her to finish before 7, she gets a minimal wage, around £20k a year for living in london (she is classed as a studnet paramedic) and only gets the minimum holiday they can get away with.

Some of the shift patterns are horrible too. 6-6 nights thursday to monday. Try having a social life outside of that.

Ian your friend is having her course paid for is earning more than £20k that I promise and gets 8 weeks holidays a year. Oh and she's not a Paramedic but that's pedantic.

The shift patterns for 12 hour workers give you a good social life. You get plenty of time off from working so many hours, if they don't like the unsocial hours then your in the wrong job.

As a country lad, I think it reinforces the respect for all the retained firefighters - up and down the country people do it for the benefit of the community rather than 30k per year, whilst working their proper jobs too.

just like the RNLI, just like Special constables too, and all the other emergency services like cave and mountain rescue... sort of makes you wonder if we even need full time firefighters being paid 30k plus to sit watching videos and working out in the on site gym all evening on the off chance they'll get called out...

[i]"Some of the shift patterns are horrible too. 6-6 nights thursday to monday. Try having a social life outside of that."[/i]
Not everyone's social life revolves around going to the pub on Saturday night.

only gets the minimum holiday they can get away with.

This bit is still making me laugh.

The good thing about the NHS is they now have some pretty good websites providing lots of info, like the LAS which gives us this info.

What benefits will I receive?

To give you an idea, here are the current pay levels for a student paramedic working in outer London, and doing the full range of shifts*:

* Year 1 £21,311 inc. (during initial 26-week course) rising to £25,785 inc.
* Year 2 £27,507 inc.
* Year 3 £29,228 inc.
* On qualification as a paramedic £29,884 inc.

*This salary is basic pay plus outer London high cost area supplement and full (25 per cent) unsocial hours enhancement.

You will also receive a number of other benefits.

* A minimum of 27 days' holiday each year, increasing with service.
* New NHS employees from April 2008 will be eligible to join the Amended NHS Pension Scheme which provides membership to a final salary scheme with pension linked to pay near retirement. Other benefits include life assurance, dependent benefits, voluntary early retirement, ill-health retirement benefits and the option to increase retirement benefits.
* Access to a round-the-clock employee assistance programme.
* Personal and professional development and training opportunities.
* Interest-free travel season ticket loan.
* Childcare voucher scheme.
* Access to NHS discounts, offering NHS employees a range of money-saving deals.
* Access to occupational health and counselling services.

* A minimum of 27 days' holiday each year, increasing with service.

...right. Which is a day below the statutory minimum for the private sector.

"You are entitled to a minimum of 5.6 weeks' holiday a year. This is called statutory holiday. To work out how many days holiday you can take a year, you need to multiply 5.6 by the number of days you work in a week.

For example:

* if you work a five-day week, you are entitled to 28 days' paid holiday a year (5.6 X 5)."

http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/index/life/employment/holidays_and_holiday_pay.htm

ZuluEleven...are you so stupid as to think retained don't get paid? Retained firefighters do it purely and simply for the money and are now taking work from full-time firefighters.
MrFC is a firefighter and he does not earn £30.
He does not have another job.
What a load of gobshites on this forum!!!!

Retained firefighters do it purely and simply for the money and are now taking work from full-time firefighters.

Yeah, of course... 🙄

Konabunny.... I think you miss an important point about bank holidays being included in the statutory calculation (hence the increase in 2009) but excluded from the paramedic holiday allowance. So they get 8 more bank holidays on top of their standard allowance.

Yup exactly Yeti roughly something like that. If you work them you get extra hours of holiday for lieu time.

Zulu there is some current upset with this, the work FC refers to is they are using retained staff to cover overtime and the likes as it's cheaper to pay them. The retained staff I know all do it for the money,

yup i get a lot of holiday, problem is holiday on paper and holiday time off is very different. I currently have 290 hours leave outstanding. Can I book any of that off? No. NO family holiday, no chance of getting more than a week in a row off, no chance of christmas, school holidays, or bank holidays off.

Don't get me wrong, I knew the situation when I joined up and after working 7, 12 hour shifts in a row sometimes I get 6 days off but it does balance out as a 40 hour week, the same as everyone else.

Drac, from the retained FF I know, I think saying that they do it for the money is like saying the TA do it for the money, or that the RNLI do it for the money - its a small part of a complex equation, and given that their employers and local communities play ball I don't think you can put it down to the individuals personal greed - given that most rural areas are covered by retained crews, the value for money compared with keeping a full time fire crew on duty 24/7 in every small town doesn't even begin to compare.

I dont think that being selected to cover shortages instead of paying o/t for full time crews is the same thing as "taking work off them" - simple economics, if the full timers were willing to work overtime for time rate instead of xtra bubble then I'm sure they'd choose them instead...