non-fatiguing cars?

Volvo.

#endthread

I test drove a Superb estate with a dsg box a few weeks ago and it was like floating around in an armchair. I'm not really used to modern cars so I don't have much to compare it to but I'd love to take one on a longer journey.

Volvo, 5 Series, E Class, CLS. Basically anything towards the luxury/executive end of the market.

Or a Caterham; you'll never fall asleep in one of those.

Definitely something with one of those adaptive cruise control thingys. I have a Mazda 6, super comfy (but no adaptive cruise control that I’m aware of)  I drove it 7 hrs up the motorway last week and it was exhausting. 

One where there are no other drivers on the road making you concentrate on the road ?

stw losing it's touch! audi rs6 init! 😉 though I found a scooby the most effortless car "cross-country".

Merc E class for quiet and smooth.
Had a V50 with seats you could sit in all day, unfortunately the rest of it was a bit disappointing and tiring.

Volvo.
I've driven across, up down and around europe in various Volvos, very relaxing and capable indeed.

Seats are still the benchmark by which others are judged.

Have to admit i hate adaptive cruise control but each to their own. It could of course be my VW thats the problem and not all cars with this.

I would respectfully suggest that even with a newer less fatiguing car you should be breaking journeys into segments to avoid you shutting down and being unsafe on the road. It's an inconvenience but better than having to live with guilt if you injure someone close to you.

3 series BMW would be my suggestion as they're relaxing to drive, especially with an 8 speed auto-box fitted and all the toys for cruise control, climate, auto hold etc. I suspect that other premium marques will be equally relaxing if purchasing something post 2016.

Hard to say but I have found my experience with Mercedes interesting. At first you think 'ok' but then before you realise it 4hrs has passed and you feel fine.

There are lots of little things. There's more range of adjustment in the seat and steering wheel than I'm used to - but it's comfortable in all it's positions I am not hinting the one combo that works. The whole car is more stable so you have to concentrate far less on correcting your course on motorways.

It was quiet at first, now I think the control arm bushings have failed so there's more vibration than there should be.

Have to admit i hate adaptive cruise control but each to their own

That's interesting - would love to know people's thoughts as I've never used it!

In an ideal world I'd cop a modern S class or somesuch, with all the trimmings. In reality I've got about £10ish K which seems like it'd get something from about 2013 with a decent spec.

I've spent all day driving in my V60 (latest model), no problem at all. Shame they've stopped selling them in the UK.

You can get a CLS or an E class for that. But you'd need to pay attention to things like the bushings or the engine mounts. They are fluid filled and I guess provide a better ride but maybe don't last as long or break down sooner than plain rubber, I don't know. I'm on 98k.

I've driven to the Alps/Pyrenees/ Spain from Leeds loads of times in 2 different Passat estates, a Mitsubishi 4x4 pick up thing, a Ford Smax and now a Merc Viano van.
I can seemingly drive the Viano for ever without getting tired! The bigger the better I reckon, get high up and you see forever. Cruise control is great as well, but mine isn't adaptive.

Yes, adaptive cruise control is a big winner for me. All those little moments where someone touches their brakes for no reason, or drops in front of you then slows down by a few mph, or you want to change lane, overtake and drop back in front - ACC does all those without you needing to touch the brake or accelerator pedal.

You find yourself no longer having to react to all the little changes in speed and direction of others, which over the course of a few hours adds up to hundreds of instances.

No doubt someone will be along to say back in their day they had to climb under the car and change the gears by hand while driving etc etc

Other easy/cheap wins are cars without low profile tyres and/or stupidly big wheels (over 17 inch), taking your roof bars off when not in use, making sure tyres are inflated properly, and driving a bit slower!

I've only tried ACC for a short time, on a BMW iX hire car and it was mostly OK apart from the annoying of trait of slowing down as you approach a car in your lane on the m-way meaning you need to take over control for the overtake. I believe some Teslas will perform the overtake if the situation allows. Given all the self-driving assist the BMW had it seemed like a pretty big omission. Still better than non-ACC though.

OK apart from the annoying of trait of slowing down as you approach a car in your lane on the m-way meaning you need to take over control for the overtake.

On VW cars you just hit the indicator and it knows you are going for a pass so hits the accelerator for you. I'd be surprised if BMW didn't do the same.

Sorry? BMW? Indicators? 🤣

Heh, was gonna make the joke but didn't want to alienate half the forum

Surprised no one has said this already, an EV… the good ones are effortless to drive, you can have adaptive drive where it reads the road and slows down for traffic and corners, speed signs, or single pedal driving.

It is nice and warm, or cool when you get in it, and stays just as you want it, and it has enough tech to keep you entertained and relaxed.

BMW i4 here.

The OP said no EV. Or I’d have recommend the same. Not least because regular breaks on motorway drives sounds baked into their post viral life anyway, so range anxiety less of a thing.

OP said not an EV.

and instead of being relaxed, they'll be constantly stressed about how long before they are stranded with a flat battery.

the annoying of trait of slowing down as you approach a car in your lane

Adaptive cruise control that doesn't slow down as you approach another car is available. It's called cruise control.

an EV… the good ones are effortless to drive, you can have adaptive drive where it reads the road and slows down for traffic and corners, speed signs, or single pedal driving.

OP has £10k....

Surprised no one has said this already, an EV… the good ones are effortless to drive, you can have adaptive drive where it reads the road and slows down for traffic and corners, speed signs, or single pedal driving.

Everything except the one pedal drive is carry over tech from fuel cars...

Let’s not do the EV thing over again, the OP explained why it’s not an option. Let’s stick to useful suggestions.

I was going to say ‘Volvo’, but it’s already been said. I have an old XC90 with aggressive tyres, and it is a joy to drive on long trips. I have two kids in London and one in Edinburgh, while I live in Cardiff, and the CC and a good podcast, I could do those trips a few times a month with delight.

It’s also automatic, which makes it extra nice. My other car is manual (a Jag X-Type) and as nice as it was to drive, I never use it now in favour of the Volvo.

Adaptive cruise control with good lane keep assist. At the 10k end of the market I think Hyundai is likely to be the best system, can drive itself up the motorway for hours with no interventions as long as you're holding onto the wheel. Worth checking it works before you buy, the vw system is awful in comparison

E Class merc, big engine, automatic. Audio books and crack on. Used to routinely drive my e class coupe to Staines in a single run. I live in Cumbria. You need something effortless 

Bit out there, but Citroen really pushes comfort. Their suspension is based on some fancy rally tech, but adapted to be supremely comfortable. They have really gone for comfort rather than sporty (which is what the British public want).

Another +1 for Volvo I'm afraid. I have 2 of them and an old Peugeot Partner (Berlingo) that I clack about in with the dog in the back. Every time I drive a Volvo my words to MrsRNP are "this is such a good car" - they are both old with 400k miles between them and still brilliant.
Our V70 has done the run long run down to Perpignan many times in utter comfort.

Got a tiny engined petrol Superb estate and the torque and gearbox makes motorway cruising effortless. It's not fast, but motorway overtakes in gear are a doddle and visibility is, well, superb. Seats aren't as good as Volvos sadly.

I've recently got a 10y old Merc e220 and it is effortless to drive, it just wafts along with power when you want it. An auto box makes things a lot easier to drive, doubt I'll go back to manual.

A Honda.  There's a reason lots of old people drive them.  Everything is light to the touch; switches, steering and gear change.

The most relaxing car that I have owned was an 2009 Audi A4 V6 Tdi on standard suspension. Quiet, effortless and good seats. My current car (VW Golf) has good seats and ACC but is noisier.
I am also a fan of ACC, in flowing traffic it does make it more relaxing a once you learn it’s foibles.

I drove Nottingham to the south of France and back two summers ago in my 3 series. 15h 900miles each way over about 24h .

It was good. Tiring and not something I'd ever consider regularly/ yearly but less horrible than expected.

I went from a 2001 Octavia to a 2015 honda civic estate to 2014 3 series. I'm tall and the 3 series seats go back further. The civic seats fitted my back so much better. The 3 really fits when adjusted just so. When my 5"4 wife drives it she has to change 20 or so things but she finds it comfy as well.

As a starting point something that's designed for quiet and comfort over speed/handling/"driver dynamics".
It absolutely doesn't need to be a luxury brand.  The three large Fords we've owned have been some of the best cars for ergonomics and long journey comfort. I don't rate our Focus for this though too revvy.
I think there are two things you can consider here.

1. Choice of a less fatiguing car, which you've picked up on
2. An approach to driving that manages fatigue (if you don't already)

I know it's not directly comparable to long COVID fatigue but I have always done a lot of big hit/solo long journeys.  An advanced driver friend  pulled me up on a few things on a trip together about 15 years ago and rather than have a typically British reaction of denial and abusing them, their mother and their pet cat it was a catalyst for a lot of small behavioural changes when driving.  It's now very rare I feel fried after a long trip (I used to before) and I think that's down to being mentally and physically efficient in the car. I don't "rush" a journey.  Sensible pace, good planning ahead, light braking and acceleration, stick to the limits, be tolerant and good natured. That dramatically cuts the stress and therefore energy expenditure.
The stereo is often off when I'm pounding out a long journey especially on my own and I don't sit there chatting on the phone either (I hate that).
Sorry long waffle but in summary:

• Comfort not speed
• Interior that isn't like a dungeon (our old Audi) is a benefit
• Auto is a benefit (although I'm in a manual again)
• Something that doesn't need the nuts revved off it  (our current 2nd car is like this and it's not a good long trip car imo) i.e. something that has some low end pull
• Make sure the ergonomics work for you - driving position and well laid out instruments and controls, plenty of adjustments all save energy/fatigue.
• Remove as many distractions inside the car as possible

robertajobbFull Member
OP said not an EV.

apologies, didn’t fully read the OP, or the 10k bit.

Obviously recommend what you know territory here, but the newer model Alfas are super comfy. I drove mine 2000km home from where I bought it. Seats are next level, car is really quiet. <br /><br />

Had a Toyota Corolla estate for 3 years and it was the best thing I’ve ever had. 400 mile days were no problem, and genuinely found my (or my wife’s more likely) bladder was the biggest limiter on how far I could drive.

Did Swindon to Edinburgh, Carlisle, and regularly Manchester/ Liverpool return with only fuel stops, and always got out feeling fresh.

The best ACC I’ve used (better than merc or VW by miles), comfy seats, good heating/cooling and apple carplay/ controls in the right places all added up to a car I would have again in a heartbeat. Not sure if they will be in budget though?

I love the idea of an EV, but with this budget, and given we often can't park on the same street as our house (let alone outside it), I think it may need to be the next car after this one!

An approach to driving that manages fatigue (if you don’t already)

I (think I) am generally a pretty chilled driver, but would certainly be interested to read more if you've got any links?

The most relaxing cars I have owned were

Audi A8 but so dull it might induce sleep.
Range Rover but for 10K you will spend the same repairing it.
Mercedes CL600 which was something of a land yacht but when I drove down Cherbourg - Nice in a single stint, I think I got out feeling fresher and more relaxed than when I got it.

I would go for a high quality, large car that has been crucified by depreciation - The Merc was £126,000 purchased new and I paid about £14K for it. BMW 5 & especially 7 series seem to fit the bill.

By far the best cat I’ve ever had was a X5 on winter tyres. Really comfy and quiet. Could manage the trip down from an hour north of Inverness to Cheshire non stop swapping drivers on the way. 

Current 5 series is good but not as quiet. Maybe need to swap the wheels out for winters that aren’t run flats again. 

So bit of luxury, power, auto and tyres with a decent sidewall on them. 

E class.

It is no coincidence that this is the most commonly mentioned car on this thread so far.

Avant-garde or Elegance (absolutely not anything amg/sport spec), saloon if you don't need the boot as they are even more refined than the estate.

You can get a, lovely car for 10k.

They even have system "attention assist" which is designed to combat the exact issue you have (fatigue creeping in while driving).

Going back to first principles, what is it that you find particularly tiring about driving - by that I mean is it the cognitive load in particular, or constant exposure to road noise etc? Or both. Or something else.

Wondering because I recently did my first really long drive - Peak District to Aviemore and return - after my ongoing long covid recovery and i coped reasonably well, I think because the nature of motorway driving is that you're making relatively predictable decisions in roughly comparable scenarios over and over again, whereas in urban environments or on non-motorway roads, you're dealing with a wider variety of situations and I think, working harder mentally.

I wonder if there is something in the suggestion that you might be able to reduce fatigue with different driving strategies / approaches.

Obviously the Ogmios school of Zen Motoring would be the gold standard here... ahem:

I guess in a way, car choice ties in with that, something lazy and non-urgent makes sense. My only contribution on that front is not to buy a tuned Mk2 Golf GTi...  don't ask how I know etc.

For me, this time of year good headlights/bulbs make a huge difference to fatigue. A higher driving position also helps mitigate the lasers some other cars seem to be fitted with.

Another +1 Volvo had a few love them

Based on my own experiences - the most relaxing car i've had was a 2018 BMW 2-series Gran-Tourer - i drove from London to Lake Garda twice and felt great at the end of each journey.

The 2014 Passat i had wasn't bad either - just sort of wafted along.

The worst was a fiat 500 hire car - i did a day trip from London to Bristol in it and could barely walk when i got home - the seats were effectively camping chairs.

I'd go with a Jaguar XJ, probably X350 shape with a petrol and have plenty of change. Fabulous cars to do miles in, a step above the german stuff in terms of comfort.

Porsche Cayenne EHybrid  , with air suspension, massage heated / ventilated seats, acoustic glass, cabin ioniser . Combined with adaptive cruise , just over 2k revs at 80 , the miles just melt away 😁

In the spirit of recommending what you have, either of our cars do long distance quite comfortably. Both are diesel and cruise at low revs, which I’ve found less fatiguing than a higher revving petrol - something about the vibrations I guess.

Ford SMax, manual, diesel - can be set with a fairly  upright driving position, with hips and knees level and a bent knee down to the pedals, much like a truck driver’s position. Seats are nicely firm and supportive. Also, very large windscreen makes for an airy ambience.

Jaguar XF auto - complete opposite of the Ford, much more laid back position -  just a quick recliner chair really. Auto is definitely preferable to manual in motorway traffic jams. Bit of a gamble to buy at the lower end of the market however! Ours was well looked after by the original owner and came with a full service history, but even at that there’s a constant spend required to keep it going.

Volvo, auto.

I've owned a few and genuinely a 850, or even a 360 from over 20 years ago are supremely comfortable. Like an armchair on wheels

Relaxing for me means not stressing about extraneous info while driving, especially in poor conditions.
recent experience w Audi (couple of courtesycars) mean they are non starters, too many screens in too many places and too many things that go bing. I'm sure you program that out in settings, but setting off the collision alarm cos you were too busy looking for something else had gone bong is not relaxing.

Had BMW as daily drivers over last few years, and they are really good at ergonomics. THe only info you see is the info you need, nothing going bing you don't need to know about. I drive navigation and comms so much better than android auto. Info visibility excellent. You can concentrate on the road and other traffic and it's great. Get to the end of long drives feeling really fresh

Curve ball, Subaru Legacy. My dad got one recently (a levorg which is over budget) very relaxing car. All the toys, smooth ride, 4x4 if that floats your boat.

I had a diesel Mondeo (Ghia x) which was ok, but over 2 hours was impossible. I thought it was me getting old but, no, it was something about that car. Subsequent vehicles, including the 12 year old vivaro have been fine on long journeys.
My current Passat estate is lovely with ACC. Especially after I needed 4 tyres changed. The bloke gave me the options and I asked him which were the quietest. It turns out they all have a decibel rating. I chose the lowest and am glad. A mate came with me on a motorway trip. He has a similar car and remarked how quiet mine was.

Changing from run flats to normal tyres helped in my 3 series.

Nothing I can directly put my finger on - bit quieter, a bit Les crashy over bumps, a bit quieter but on all adds up on the 300 mile trip to see my folks

Going back to first principles, what is it that you find particularly tiring about driving – by that I mean is it the cognitive load in particular, or constant exposure to road noise etc? Or both. Or something else

Hi BWD, it's hard to say! I think it's a couple of things. Partly the cognitive load, but in a 'stamina' sort of way - i.e. you can't just switch off for a minute and stare vacantly into space (!).

But also noise/stimulus/distractions - they are fatiguing in themselves. Even on a good day, an evening in a busy environment (say a family party) with lots of conversations going on at the same time, kids running around, maybe music in the background - that will tire me out and make me want to go and sit in a quiet room on my own. (It reminds me of being a kid and hearing a parent say stuff like 'grandad is tired now, we need to go home', and wondering why grandad was tired when he'd just been sitting in his armchair, but now I am the grandad 😅 )

My Jaguar XF Sportbrake 25t is the most effortless car I’ve had for ticking away miles.
8 speed auto, comfy but supportive seats, quiet (I’ve got the petrol 2 litre turbo) at all speeds. Mine doesn’t have adaptive cruise - but I tend to set my speed limiter to 76mph and drive to that - so no danger I’m going to get caught speeding on the motorway essentially. I don’t like normal cruise control in any car personally - hurting towards the back of something and having to brake or click a button to disengage it stresses me out. I imagine decent adaptive cruise would be much better than standard cruise. Mine has Apple CarPlay which integrates seamlessly with my phone for satnav / Spotify / WhatsApp (reads messages out) etc.
Your budget might be an issue for one without big ish miles though - would suggest the facelift model which I think starts at 2017.
The other car I’ve had which cruises very comfortably is a Citroen DS5. I had a manual diesel but the engine was quieter than any diesel I’ve had before or since - also very smooth / linear and not ‘boosty’.
The interior was lovely tbh - comfiest car seats I’ve ever had. All the buttons were nicely to hand and you could either have it dark inside or you could open the electric interior blinds to the glass roof for nice sunshine.
Would imagine for your budget you’d get a very decent one - quick Google throws up euro 6 diesel models - 2015 plate / 51k miles on the clock.

The one I had, had a massage drivers seat as well as seat heaters and adjustable lumber support etc.

Has the head up display thing / turning xenon headlights / the nice seats and wheels etc.

£9995

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202311304444814?sort=relevance&advertising-location=at_cars&make=Citroen&model=DS5&postcode=BS15%203SG&price-to=12000&transmission=Automatic&year-from=2015&fromsra

My BMW E91 330D that I’ve just sold is the most relaxing & comfortable thing I’ve owned - pretty quiet, smooth auto box, easy to read dash with nothing extra you don’t need, just enough switches in the right place, enough power to always do what you need and most importantly the most comfortable seats.

Seats will be subjective so I’d be trying to test drive a few of the suggestions from this thread - 3 / 5 Series, A6, Mondeo, Volvos etc. And I’d stay away from underpowered cars, I don’t find them relaxing at all.

Re adaptive vs normal cruise, I find ACC good in heavier traffic where you can’t always just move out a lane and normal better in light traffic where you’re more likely to have a clear lane to move in to. It’s a shame I can’t switch between the 2 modes on my cars.

I'm in.the camp of  a C class or E class.

I've had a C class on hire a couple of times, inc a trip to Czech Republic.   

It's one car that I concluded 'if I had that amount of money to burn on a motor, I'd have one without question'.  Just so controlled and calm to be in behind the wheel. 

(I nearly nearly got one at the start of 2022 in estate form... but the boot space just wasn't big enough in the C for a big Ladbrador to be truly happy.).

Their suspension is based on some fancy rally tech,

No, it isn’t. It’s a hydro-pneumatic system introduced on the DS cars, way back in 1955, and so effective that Rolls Royce licensed it for their cars, as did BMW for the 5-Series e34 Touring, Maserati for the Quattroporte II and Peugeot. Mercedes have used it under the name Active Body Control.

Citroen have some of the most comfortable seats I’ve spent several hours sat in. Certainly better than some Mercedes, like the A-Series I had to take to Bristol AutoGlass, about two years ago. It was about a year old with the new full screen dash, and after less than half an hour in it, I just wanted to dump it and get a taxi back, it was horribly uncomfortable, the seat far too firm and unforgiving - I’ve sat on stackable plastic chairs that were more comfortable.
I was more comfortable sat in Maccy D’s for 2 1/2 hours waiting for its screen to be replaced, not looking forward to the hour drive back.

It was a similar model we had in where the entire screen went black just as it left QC after body repairs. Oh, and then there was the Mercedes that was dropped off by a logistics driver, and the battery had died when someone went to move it and it was stuck in Park. Hours of attempts to get it to move failed, it ended up being dragged onto a flatbed recovery truck and taken away. I will never, ever consider buying a Mercedes of any description, and I wouldn’t recommend buying one to anyone I know.

3 series BMW would be my suggestion

I would suggest the same, but with any of these types of cars, look for non sports / Adaptive suspension, no run flat tyres, and decent length wheelbase and the engine with the most torque you can find.  I’m very comfortable cruising a 320d, have previously enjoyed the same with a 330i, and would probably now consider - whatever fuel - something in the 500nm torque range mated with the right transmission to deliver that experience.  It’s the effortless wafting that’s the key here.   For a BMW i’d be looking and an 8 speed ZSG box and a 330/335d or similar 5 series.

Could manage the trip down from an hour north of Inverness to Cheshire non stop swapping drivers on the way.

Sounds dangerous......

I use to drive 40k pa in the past, old style Citroen use to be the answer - just waft along.

For the past 30 years I've driven auto's, and I'll be driving them until the day I stop.

I've a high-spec x-drive 3 series now, very quiet, safe & comfortable but my pal has an SE 5 series, 2017 on basic skinny wheels - this wafts along.

Extra's to make it easier - aircon (use it ALL the time), heated seats & steering wheel, adjustable seats & wheel and don't forget stuff like quality tyres and ensuring the car is maintained well.

- Comfort not speed
- Interior that isn’t like a dungeon (our old Audi) is a benefit
- Auto is a benefit (although I’m in a manual again)
- Something that doesn’t need the nuts revved off it  (our current 2nd car is like this and it’s not a good long trip car imo) i.e. - something that has some low end pull
- Make sure the ergonomics work for you – driving position and well laid out instruments and controls, plenty of adjustments all save energy/fatigue.
- Remove as many distractions inside the car as possible

Agreed. Whilst not necessarily matching all points on that list - at least not on purpose - my current car is an automatic Grand Tourer type and it is without a doubt the most comfortable car I've had. Fife to Sheffield can be done in one go and I don't get out feeling like I've been folded up into an A4 jiffy bag for 6 hours.

For £10k those points bring to mind some kind of diesel luxo-barge. Plenty of relatively new Euro6 A6 S-line are in budget, same for things like C-class Merc, VW Tiguan, VW CC, etc. Plenty to choose from.

Another C Class vote the seats are some of the comfiest (the only other car I had that came close was a Ford Gransda Scorpio) go auto obvs but also avoid AMG with their stiffer suspension and low profile tyres.

what are you driving at the moment?

I have been repeatedly told that Volvo are super-comfortable, but I am not convinced. Maybe that's because I am nearly 2m tall, maybe it's because I have only really tried v70, v60 and v50 models in the cheaper, second-hand end of the spectrum.

Newer Passat? agsin problems with the tall thing. Same with Mercedes, tall and relatively old choices only.

I remember all my cars being relatively uncomfortable after a few hours. The old Passat was fine, but Torpoint to Cambridge in a single hit was a recipe for tiredness.

Needs to be quiet as well. Noise is fatiguing.

Have to admit i hate adaptive cruise control but each to their own

That’s interesting – would love to know people’s thoughts as I’ve never used it!

It is good for heavier traffic but not for lighter traffic, as it slows you down behind cars when you could just be pulling out seamlessly. Although I've only used it in an EV when you can't always tell that you've slowed down a bit. But yes, it's good. The best thing though is that it comes with emergency braking. Now I'm sure people will jump in to tell me I should be paying attention, and rest assured I am ALWAYS paying attention but everyone slips up sometimes, and I actually feel a lot more relaxex knowing that the car is also watching what's going on and if I make a mistake it may not be fatal.

As for screens - turn them off. The Prius had a simple number at the base of the windscreen which you could dim, and you could turn everything else off so the entire dash was almost completely dark. This was fantastic at night.

Also good headlights (like you get on expensive cars) are really important, and get them properly adjusted. However this is difficult unless you learn to do it yourself, as most garages seem happy to ensure they simply aren't dazzling other drivers so they pass the MOT, which apparently means they point them at the floor and be done with it. There is a specification for the gradient of the beams printed on the panel at the front of the bonnet when open.

OP said not an EV.

and instead of being relaxed, they’ll be constantly stressed about how long before they are stranded with a flat battery.

They don't suddenly cut out you bloody idiot, they tell you the state of charge at all times so you can stop and charge at one of the many chargers. Range anxiety is not a thing any more than fuel anxiety.

XC60/X3 (I didn't suggest xc90/X5 because of cost! But also, I think the X3 is just generally a better more usable car than the X5)

5 series / E class

5/E probably a bit more refined, but you're sat lower down which is really fatiguing in itself. I'd take the more upright position + higher driving position over 10% loss of refinement any day for comfort / being less overall fatiguing. You see further down the road - it's just simply more relaxing

Unless there is posh adjustable suspension, the higher profile the tyres the better on our roads. (you're a MTB'er so will be easy to work out why)

I had a diesel Mondeo (Ghia x) which was ok, but over 2 hours was impossible. I thought it was me getting old but, no, it was something about that car. Subsequent vehicles, including the 12 year old vivaro have been fine

Which year Mondeo?

I almost changed my Vivaro for a mk3 Mondeo last week.

OP - sorry if I missed it but have you said what you drive now?

I used to regularly do 6+ hours driving in a day for work.Most comfortable car was an old Lexus LS430 - the nicest easist car I have ever driven. Replaced it when it finally died with a Toyota Avensis, which is good but not as nice as the Lexus.

Since Covid, working from home and changing roles, I have found that long drives really tire me out these days - I think it is something you get used to over time.

Hi BWD, it’s hard to say! I think it’s a couple of things. Partly the cognitive load, but in a ‘stamina’ sort of way – i.e. you can’t just switch off for a minute and stare vacantly into space (!).

Aye oop! I wonder if some of it, at least, is about factoring in ways of stopping and re-charging regularly as much or more than the particular car, making sure you have loads of time so you don't feel under pressure. I can relate to the impact of general hub-bub and, I guess, multi-tasking, but thankfully it's gradually improved for me over time and I'm pretty much back to being my old, irritable self, though I still struggle with moments of high stress. 

I got really interested in mindfulness and meditation as a way of handling things mentally. Not so much that you drive the car in a meditative state, though in a way, good driving is, I think, quite mindful in that you are, or should be, completely engaged in the process - the Ogmios thing was only a half joke -  but more as a way of re-wiring the brain, so that stuff washes over you more easily, if that makes sense. Might be worth delving into. There are some useful apps out there.

I suspect that most medium to large modern cars that folk have suggested are going to do the machine side of things quite well enough, but you also have control over how you approach journeys. I tried to avoid rush hours or at least timing things so that I didn't hit big urban conurbations when they were likely to be busy. None of which is rocket science, ditto planning routes that feel less stressful and giving yourself lots of time so you don't feel under time pressure, keeping pace with traffic so that you're not constantly overtaking or being overtaken etc. 

Good luck with it and hope things gradually improve.

In terms of journey management, for me the answer is food and coffee. It really helps 🙂

I really enjoy a longer trip in my Octy estate. It's probably not the most relaxing and comfortable, but after my Civic type-r ep3 everything feels more refined and relaxing!

I did 3.5 hours in my Golf GTi a couple of weeks ago with no stops, I was ready for a break at that point though!

In my view there is a significant difference between a Passat etc and a Mercedes etc. You may not notice on a test drive but you may notice after 5 hours or so.

The other side of the coin is that after a decade or so you things like shocks and rubber suspension components will start to age. So a more modern cheaper car might end up being feeling quieter and more comfortable in terms of noise. Also, in my case I am weighing up wether or not to change the Merc for a slightly newer Passat, and I have been looking around. For about the same mileage and price I can get a slightly newer > 2015 Passat but they come with not only Euro 6 engines but adaptive cruise and auto emergency braking as well. On the other hand, better seats will always be better seats.

I almost changed my Vivaro for a mk3 Mondeo last week.

OP – sorry if I missed it but have you said what you drive now

We're currently in a 2009 petrol Mazda 3, with no gadgets. It's been a great little car, but getting a bit old and rattly, and it's not the most comfortable on longer trips.

Incidentally before that we had a 2002 MK3 diesel Mondeo - bit of a tractor, but I did love it!

I got really interested in mindfulness and meditation as a way of handling things mentally. Not so much that you drive the car in a meditative state, though in a way – but more as a way of re-wiring the brain, so that stuff washes over you

Thanks, yes this is definitely something to look more into. I have googled stuff like "how to make driving less fatiguing" but you get the usual stuff about getting plenty of sleep and taking regular breaks. I do all that already! As I said before, I am not generally a stressy driver (or a stressy person in general) but I don't doubt there's room for improvement! I'm reminded of a time my IAM accredited cousin gave me a lift once and I was struck by how calm and predictable the journey was. 

I have tried noise cancelling headphones in the Mazda as it happens, but found the contrast between the quiet in my ears, and the rumble coming up through the seats to be quite distracting and not really what I had wanted ...