[Closed] No pension, no worries.

Depends when you're going to retire/die and what else you have ?

Depends on how much money you need when you retire I suppose 🙂

No pension, no chance of a pension, I'm past caring. Wife has one, I'd better hope she doesn't leave me...

I didn't think you had a choice anymore?
If you don't pay into a pension, your employer has to enrol you on one and take 1% to pay into it

I've been withdrawing my pension for the last 5 years (almost). It means that working isn't a necessity.

My dearly beloved had a lovely pension setup. The banks were allowed to shaft that.

I may be a bit thick, but it seems that everyone who pays into a pension does not seem to get what they pay in back.
is this the case?

benefit scroungers.

I may be a bit thick, but it seems that everyone who pays into a pension does not seem to get what they pay in back.
is this the case?

Not any more, you can take your pot without giving it to city sleaze bags from next April

I didn't think you had a choice anymore?
If you don't pay into a pension, your employer has to enrol you on one and take 1% to pay into it

I think you can still opt out.

Lets make this simple:

When you stop working you still need to eat/live etc.

So start saving. A pension is a tax efficient way of saving.

Doing nothing now will feel pretty stupid when you are a bit older.

Don't forget, if you withdraw your pension in full next year and beyond, you will pay a voluntary tax on 75% of the fund. So instead of it going to the financial sector...it goes to Georgie boy in no 11.

Funnily enough, the countries cited by the Government as leading lights in this area (USA, Australia etc) have all started to take steps to return to compulsory annuitisation as the system failed big time. Many pensioners blew it all too quickly and simply ran out of money and were thrown back on the state as the provider of last resort.

The rules regarding automatic enrolment are that the employer has to provide a scheme to which you are automatically enroled. You may however, opt out.

When you stop working you still need to eat/live etc.

I know a few folk who have stopped working, have no private pension, and manage quite well......some even managed to save a bit of their state pension.

your employer has to enrol you on one and take 1% to pay into it

That won't be worth much though.

Interactive Investor SIPP for me, happy enough with it as very cost efficient.

I know a few folk who have stopped working, have no private pension, and manage quite well

State pensions are rather generous at the moment - it'll get worse.

If you're under 45, with the exception of a lucky few, you'll be working til you drop.

The state pension will be ancient history by then. An unaffordable pyramid scheme experiment a gilded generation got to enjoy.

A private pension may keep you in subsistence level poverty, but thats the best you can expect.

When you think about it, you should start smoking, and drink more. Maybe a drug habit? Or unprotected sex with dodgy hookers?

So instead of it going to the financial sector...it goes to Georgie boy in no 11.

Six and two threes then 🙂

Not any more, you can take your pot without giving it to city sleaze bags from next April

You always could as a drawdown pension, essentialy you put the whole lot in an aco**** and pay income tax on anything you withdraw. I'm nowhwre near close enough to retiring to know what the new rules mean.

may be a bit thick, but it seems that everyone who pays into a pension does not seem to get what they pay in back.
is this the case?

i have a pension but there seems little/no point, and it's increasingly hard to justify. Every year i'm told i have to work longer, put more in, to get less out.

will i be surprised when i recieve the following letter:

"dear sucker,

there's no money left.

thanks for all the cash, now gfy"

?

no.

You'd be foolish to take it all in one go, I'm sure there are tax friendly ways of spreading it out

Governments know that not keeping pensioners warm and fed loses them the next election. It also means millions of opinionated old codgers with nothing better to do than hassle them, will.

I'm working on the basis that if I live old enough to have burned through all my assets a brick through the police station window will get me a cup of coffee and a bed for the night.

I didn't think you had a choice anymore?
If you don't pay into a pension, your employer has to enrol you on one and take 1% to pay into it

I think you can still opt out.

Yep, and if you do they'll automatically re-enrol you every 3 years (I think).

I started paying into a private pension when I was 18, not because I understood why I should, but I didn't want to regret not doing it later on. It now provides me with some reassurance that I'm a least a little prepared for the future.

The figures being thrown around in the last couple of days have made me feel even better. I have twice the average pot at 35, which can only be a good thing.

I may be a bit thick, but it seems that everyone who pays into a pension does not seem to get what they pay in back.
is this the case?

If you're going to live a long time, you'll get your money back.
Otherwise, not.

Insurance companies /providers obfuscate their fees, so basically we're paying them for losing our money for us. If you're not paying much in, up to 20% of your pension props up parasites.

A private pension may keep you in subsistence level poverty, but thats the best you can expect.

When you think about it, you should start smoking, and drink more

This, I reckon once I have some money I'm just going to take up Motorbike racing and base jumping.

Work till you die in a job you hate, (unless you're lucky and your job is either fun or academically interesting), have two kids, buy a death box (house), get divorced, cock stops working, brain stops working properly, end up in old peoples home.

don't forget the 'DNR' tattoo...

@ton - depends how long you live.

Personally I'm told I've got one of the best available, an RBS Staff Final Salary one, but I can't pay any more into it so it'll never amount to much - I paid into that from the age of 23 to 32, but I've not paid into anything for the last 5 years - I've be meaning to look into it, but I haven't had any real spare cash each month to pay it and private ones are expensive - I'll start again when we set one up in work, or auto-enrolment forces us to, whichever comes first. My Wife, if we last that long is a Nurse with an NHS pensions, another good one.

As for whether you should? Consider this - whilst life expectancy in the UK is 80ish, that of course is 'from birth' every year you live your expectancy goes up - if you've made it to 30 without dying of some horrible childhood disease or topped yourself (most deaths under 30 are suicide) you're likely to live to around 90.

So you spend the first 20 years of your life (ish) being taken care of by your parents, you probably think you'd like to retire at 65 and not wait until the Government says you should down tools at 70 or whatever - so you've got 45 years of work to earn all the money you want to live on for those 45 years and another 25 in retirement.

Currently the state pension is £113 a week, £450 a month - okay, you might be lucky enough to have paid off your mortgage by then - but even taking that out of the equation - how'd you fancy living off £450 a month, whilst you're still paying council tax (£100 a month?) Gas and elec (£100 a month?) Water (£40) Food (£200 a month?).

But sod it eh? It'll sort itself out won't it.

A private pension may keep you in subsistence level poverty, but thats the best you can expect.

Surely that's up to you? It's only a savings scheme.

Plan A: I'm going to win the lottery so I am covered.

Plan B: I've also been paying into pension for the past 18 years (since I started working) and the past 11 years have all been final salary. (Won't be necessary though as I will win the lottery)

Plan C: If all else fails I will have to kill my wife to reduce outgoings whilst still accessing her fund.

As you can see, I have goven this careful consideration

I have twice the average pot at 35, which can only be a good thing.

Yeah - got a link? Wondering what's average - and even what's recommended.

For many though it would be better to wait until got a deposit and/or paying higher rate tax.

[i]I may be a bit thick, but it seems that everyone who pays into a pension does not seem to get what they pay in back.
is this the case? [/i]

Depends how old you are, my Granny lived to 97 so 37 years out of hers. And my Dad has now been longer (retired at 60 y/o, now 82 y/o) on his old firms' final-salary pension than when he worked there.

And mine are currently looking at paying out a decent amount, but then I (and companies) have been paying in for 30 years now.

horrible childhood disease or topped yourself (most deaths under 30 are suicide) you're likely to live to around 90.

15 years of which will be spent being kept alive in an old peoples home, unless big pharma invents pills which stop the various types of dementias. Which you can bet will only be on private plans in 50 years, so you'll have to work to keep yourself alive so that you can carry on working till you die.

Educator has a point though, very soon, retired people will be in the majority.
That should give them a lot of leverage.

I've just turned 55 and looking to see if it's worth taking some of my pot next year, it's hardly growing so maybe.

I'm assuming the state pension will be gone by the time I get to that age, also assuming I'll never be able to retire - so planning to carry on as I am, basically.

If I get too old and infirm and start being a burden on people, I'll take up BASE jumping or something 😉

Trimix - Member

Doing nothing now will feel pretty stupid when you are a bit older.

I've got one from my old work, and had the S2P paid into up until last year, when that stopped(I knew it was going to stop, so I don't think a few year of paying that into a private pension would do much harm)... I'm not paying into one just now, suppose I really should do something about it, but tbh, i'm not particularly concerned about it, I've got some debt to pay of over the next 2 years, so i'll get rid of that before thinking about it.... it's not like I'm the type to save, so I'll be working till my late 60s anyhow. When the time comes I'll make do somehow.

I'm not overly concerned, if i'm starving, I've no qualms about stealing shit! 😆

Works will need to start paying a pension in a few years anyhow won't they? so that sounds about right for when I'll want to be paying back into one..

Okay then then STW IFA's, serious question, what is best to do?

I have a decent pension, as does my wife. But, they are both being hammered (public sector pensions) and who knows what they will actually look like in 20 - 25yrs time.

So, if we do want to retire at a sensible age and live a good life after retirement, and we are already paying as much into our pensions as we are allowed to, what ele should we be doing to ensure we are in a good position in the future. Simple savings, ISA's, property, investments, selling body parts....?

can I ask, why people presume that there will be no state pension in the future?
has this fact ever been published or stated anywhere.

I'm not overly consider, if i'm starving, I've no qualms about stealing shit!

And if you go get caught and sent to prison, then you're sorted 😉

Tom_W1987 - Member

horrible childhood disease or topped yourself (most deaths under 30 are suicide) you're likely to live to around 90.

15 years of which will be spent being kept alive in an old peoples home

Yeah, my Wife's Gran has been in one for the last 4 years (although she was 90 before they wheeled her in) it costs her family £45k a year to keep her there! The local Council put up £100 ish a week towards it (which is the level they fund local authority places at) but they'll want a % of her house for that when she dies.

can I ask, why people presume that there will be no state pension in the future?

There were 22 workers for every pensioner when the scheme was set up. It's something like 3 now. It's a giant Ponzi scheme, NI payments now aren't saving for your future, they're paying pensioners today. There is no state pension pot.

My basic maths went something like this.

I have a pension pot I paid into when I first started work and got a sizeable portion paid by my employer. Think it sits at about £25-30k in the pot.

I then have had no pension since. My wife has one which she also paid into when she started but since the kids came along she has also neglected.

Then this recession hit and all manner of finance went to the wall. People who had saved their entire lives were out of pocket. People who had done everything by the book ended up the worst effected.

Then the government try to force you into these employers pensions where the employer must also contribute a massive 1% (Wow). So this gets everyone back contributing.....to what exactly? Then we get down to calculated figures. The guy who gave a presentation to us basically said that I, having about 30yrs worth of work left in me would have to save £300 per month to get a fund big enough to gurentee £12000 per annum income at 70. So I did a few sums. £300 x 12 = £3600 x 30 = £108000. Now if I get to 70 and feel like blowing £108000 I will not really be that well fixed to spend it tbh. If I live to 80 I will be satisfied and just use the money in the bank, at least I have control. Now the biggie. If I live past 80 I don't really give a toss. I have paid into the system more than most and I really don't care if they have to fund wiping my arse at 80 or throw me into an incinerator.

My household has an income above any benefits available so I am not going to be due anything if I become unemployed. I am coming up 40 so I am in that bracket where I will have to provide for myself anyhow when retirement hits at, what is it, 70? I will be mortgage free by the time I am 50 and I intend to use the 50-70yrs to try to back off from working hard and enjoy my bloody life.

Then we bring into the situation that we are also going to be the inheritance generation. My parents, my wifes parents, our aunts and uncles etc etc all own their properties. We will end up with a decent chunk of money for our 50-70yrs.

Finally, my plan. I will enjoy those 50-70yrs. By the age of about 60 I will start to funnel every single penny to my children. My house, my pension pot(What there is of it), my savings. I will basically take an allowance of my well off kids & grandkids. I will go cap in hand to the government to fund a flat for me and the wife (Not that I will live there much as my kids will treat me to lots of holidays). They will regard me as basically penniless and probably reward me with a government benefit of some kind to top up the kind donations from my kids.

My wife works at a solicitors so we are cluing up on what the time scales etc are for doing most of the above legally and if I had any trust issues with the kids having all my money, well tbh I would just give up now and live on the street.

[quote=ton ]can I ask, why people presume that there will be no state pension in the future?
has this fact ever been published or stated anywhere.
It's not that there will be no state pension, it's a question of how much it will be. The state pension isn't sitting in a big pot waiting to be paid out, it's funded on an ongoing basis by taxpayers. As the number of non-taxpayers (pensioners) increases, there will be less to go around.

Of course, one way out of this is to increase the number of taxpayers. We could, for example, increase the amount of immigration we have.

can I ask, why people presume that there will be no state pension in the future?
has this fact ever been published or stated anywhere.

i don't know - but i do LOL when binners ALWAYS comes out with the 'pensions we're all DOOMED' statement on threads such as this....

thats some crystal ball he has...

can I ask, why people presume that there will be no state pension in the future?
has this fact ever been published or stated anywhere.

Its the elephant in the room. The self-evident truth that dare not speak its name.

Its just a pyramid scheme. And the thing with those is that at some point, they all unravel. That will happen a long time before we reach some hypothetical retirement 'age'

Of course, one way out of this is to increase the number of taxpayers. We could, for example, increase the amount of immigration we have.

Yeah but that would be the rational thing to do.....can't have that can we?

My parents usually take one overseas holiday a year and probably three or four week long breaks around the country. They have a decent house and spend money on updating it now and then. Try that on a state pension.

NB they were never rich, just saved like hell after us kids had left home.

ton - Member

can I ask, why people presume that there will be no state pension in the future?
has this fact ever been published or stated anywhere.

The Tories have quietly tried to kill it off every time they're in government - they've recently increased the age in which it's payable - although it's not been admitted it's thought that auto-enrolment will one day replace it completely for people under a certain age - but it will never been taken away from people who are already claiming it or even are working now - it's likely to ensure they're not blown out of the water next election any party who stop it, will only do so to new people entering the workplace.

We could just kill all the old people.
Use some kind of neurotoxin in M&S' beige fabric dye?

bencooper - Member
I'm not overly consider, if i'm starving, I've no qualms about stealing shit!
And if you go get caught and sent to prison, then you're sorted

Then we bring into the situation that we are also going to be the inheritance generation. My parents, my wifes parents, our aunts and uncles etc etc all own their properties. We will end up with a decent chunk of money for our 50-70yrs.

assuming all of that capital isn't sucked into care costs during the last few years of their life....

i don't know - but i do LOL when binners ALWAYS comes out with the 'pensions we're all DOOMED' statement on threads such as this....

thats some crystal ball he has...

You don't need a crystal ball, just a grasp of very basic maths.

Anyone imagining a retirement similar to the one 70 year olds are enjoying at present is laughably delusional. You see those foreign holidays, and weekends in the lakes they're enjoying, and all those nice meals at the golf club? Well we're all paying for it. And then some!

You also assume they don't have a similar plan to my own to offload the money over then next decade or so

I was discussing the "state pension pot" at work today with one of the olds actually, she seemed to believe as she'd paid in all her life she deserved a cushy state pension but wasnt impressed when I suggested as she's got no kids she's nothing but a drain on society and come retirement really should kill herself! Teehee!

Yeah but that would be the rational thing to do.....can't have that can we?

Like any ponzi scheme it'll only work for so long, then we're in even more trouble. At the moment immigration works nicely as they mostly nice young types busy working. Then they get old and start costing more. Plus there's there ever present housing issue to sort out.

Tom_W1987 - Member

Yeah but that would be the rational thing to do.....can't have that can we?

but it's not rational, it (immigration) would only serve to hold up the pyramid just. a. bit. longer.

(those hard-working immigrants would then want/need pensions, requiring more immigrants, etc. etc. etc.)

You don't need a crystal ball, just a grasp of very basic maths.

My pension % contributions are matched by my employer. Based on current contribution level (ie not taking into account my salary will increase), I should be able to retire at 60 with 50% of my current salary. Obviously that age and % is ball park.

Those maths are basic enough for me to want to contribute.

No meaningful pension for me, but have quite a few assets to hopefully keep me in old age e.g. several houses, decent level of savings, investments etc. I'm just working on the basis of acquiring enough capital along the way to keep me going. It might not be as tax efficient as a pension, but at least I know what I have.

But if I was on a modest wage, living in an average 3 bed semi I'd definitely want a private pension and would be shitting myself at the prospect of old age poverty. I certainly wouldn't want to be relying on the state to look after me!

My pension % contributions are matched by my employer.

Congratulations! You're in a privileged but tiny minority

Its quite sad and amazing that people find it so hard to deal with their future when its more than a few years away.

Rather than save up for when they have no job, they find reasons not to save, find reasons to think a Pension is a bad way to save, find reasons not to be able to afford to save. The list goes on and on.

Perhaps young people should spend some time with those who have retired with no savings.

I only started paying into a pension a year back, and only then because my new employer matches contributions up to 5% of salary. Prior to that I'd been investing in property. My wife has a reasonable pension from her work so I'm hoping we'll be able to retire well before the state pension kicks in.

I should be able to retire at 60 with 50% of my current salary.

Congratulations! You're in a privileged but tiny minority

P-Jay - Member

ton - Member

can I ask, why people presume that there will be no state pension in the future?
has this fact ever been published or stated anywhere.

The Tories have quietly tried to kill it off every time they're in government - they've recently increased the age in which it's payable - although it's not been admitted it's thought that auto-enrolment will one day replace it completely for people under a certain age - but it will never been taken away from people who are already claiming it or even are working now - it's likely to ensure they're not blown out of the water next election any party who stop it, will only do so to new people entering the workplace.

The previous Labour government implemented a plan to increase the state pension age based on Lord Turner's work, which the coalition subsequently accelerated. But go ahead, knock yourself out and blame Fatcher.

My pension % contributions are matched by my employer.

Congratulations! You're in a privileged but tiny minority

Tiny minority? Really?

[url= http://www.employeebenefits.co.uk/benefits/pensions/matching-pension-contributions-rise-in-popularity/104520.article ]75% of FTSE 100 and FTSE 350 companies offer matched contributions.[/url]

Perhaps young people should spend some time with those who have retired with no savings.

my mother had no savings when she got to retirement age.
heck, she even manages a month in spain every winter.

Not planning for your own future is either daft, ignorant or arrogant. You know that you will some day stop working. You know how much you earn to keep you to the lifestyle you are currently leading. You know that money someone gives you will stop.
What then?
Are you currently being paid the same as the state pension? Then you might just about break even. If your current pay is more than the state pension, what provision have you made to make up that shortfall?
Nothing?
Oh well.

Prior to that I'd been investing in property

Ooh are you one of those 'evil' BTLers?

As others have said, most people under 40 will be working until they drop.

she even manages a month in spain every winter.

I'd love to see a budget for that. As I'm sure would all the pensioners freezing to death. How do you think she does it and they don't?

but it's not rational, it (immigration) would only serve to hold up the pyramid just. a. bit. longer.
(those hard-working immigrants would then want/need pensions, requiring more immigrants, etc. etc. etc.)

Not really, they'd just have to have enough children to replenish the numbers sustainably.

The issue is when you have baby booms followed by massive drops in birthrates.

Congratulations! You're in a privileged but tiny minority

Mine are doubled by my employer.

how many pensioners do you know who have froze to death molgrips?

You don't need a crystal ball, just a grasp of very basic maths.

you quote no mathematics though.... just DOOM predictions of what WILL happen in the future

we can forecast, but we don't really know do we? or perhaps the tm'ed binners crystal ball franchise is on a roll...

can i have the winning jackpot numbers for the next euro lottery binners plz? 😆

Peterfile - second paragraph of your link

[i]Its FTSE 350 DC pensions survey 2014, which questioned 98 FTSE 100 and 241 FTSE 350 companies, found that 75% of respondents now offer matching contributions. However, while there has been a moderate increase in contribution levels, these have not kept pace with increasing longevity.[/i]

Anyone forsee a problem here?

It goes back to the whole 'basic grasp of maths' thing, as opposed to any use of crystal balls 😀

how many pensioners do you know who have froze to death molgrips?

Just the ones I read about in the mail. And, to be fair, lots of other media outlets.

I have known a few pensioners who could in no way afford to go to Spain, and were similarly not profligate with money.

By my reckoning your mum must be living on about £350/mo. Does she own the house she lives in?

Not really, they'd just have to have enough children to replenish the numbers sustainably.

Is there no max population we have room for?

Those who think there will be no state pension in 40 years - can you explain exactly what you think is going to happen? Will the country see a government allowing hundreds of thousands of elderly people starve to death? Will it become the norm? Seriously

Maybe it won't be called state pension, but there will be a way of people getting by; that's one thing you can guarantee.

And what about those who are self employed? There's no benefit in a private pension. I see my strategy as property and savings - own another property or two and take an income from the rent. Already mortgage free and considering the property ladder - scale up while money is coming in to keep the extra cash saved and used on something that's likely not going to go bust, scale down when it stops to free up cash.

Anyone above bemoaning their public sector or final salary pension - line up for a slap please.

Anyone forsee a problem here?

I see a problem with you stating that employer matched contributions put me in a tiny minority, when I have just demonstrated that I am absolutely not 🙂

[quote=ton ]how many pensioners do you know who have froze to death molgrips?
Around 300 per year in the UK.

I will go cap in hand to the government to fund a flat for me and the wife (Not that I will live there much as my kids will treat me to lots of holidays). They will regard me as basically penniless and probably reward me with a government benefit of some kind to top up the kind donations from my kids.

Wow, that's an extreme way of making sure you get your money's worth out of the state pension! Not sure if it would actually work as any guaranteed regular income you have from your kid's trust fund will probably be taken into account. I suspect you really would have to give the money away to them and rely on their goodwill to give you some of it back on the quiet. I'll ask my wife tonight, she will know. She deals with that sort of thing quite a lot with her accountancy clients.

I see a problem with you stating that employer matched contributions put me in a tiny minority, when I have just demonstrated that I am absolutely not

Anyway... that wasn't really the point i was making. If they're the very best pension schemes, and they're predicting shortfalls, in a situation we all know is only going to get progressively worse, year on year .... how long before the whole house of cards comes falling in?

Like I said.... maths