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just remember if you have kids they could become a big hitter in here
Surely only people who live on frightful council estates, live on benefits, and spend their days drinking, smoking and watching Jeremy Kyle, have kids before they're 30 nowadays anyway?
If you do struggle fertility-wise, I'd advise moving to a frightful council estate, live on benefits, and spend your days drinking, smoking and watching Jeremy Kyle. Contrary to perceived medical wisdom, it seems to sort out any issues with conceiving pretty sharpish
Never mind the rolling eyes I appreciate education but some degrees don't seem to offer much and are very Mickey Mouse
What is a real bind, for me, is the guilt I feel in that both sets of parents obviously really want grandchildren. They would not try to get us to do something we don't want to do, but their disappointment is palpable, and I intensely dislike having to disappoint my parents
Are you both without siblings? Hardly fair for you to have that responsibility forced on you alone, even if just by the power of guilt. Any critical system should have redundancy and backups.
If you're gonna do it, get it done ASAP.
If not, no worries - but make sure you make the most of all those glorious child-free hours you have, you bastard.
Going to Uni is so much more than course content.
36 with one on the way, the wife is only 28 though. TBH I was the one pushing as I was worried about bringing up a baby in my 40's!
Nothing is easy though ...Mrs Frodo's waters broke at 19 weeks and were currently taking one day at a time trying to get to at least 24!
It's great.. You'll just end up way more tired, skint and have little spare time. There'll be times when you could just cry when they won't sleep /eat / be quiet for 2 minutes. And there's the proud magic moments which give you goose bumps of love / pride... All very much a rollercoaster of being a parent. Some people make it look easy but I'm sure inside they are screaming. 39.. And 3 girls under 6.
Are you both without siblings? Hardly fair for you to have that responsibility forced on you alone, even if just by the power of guilt. Any critical system should have redundancy and backups.
We do, but it isn't looking much more hopeful in that direction either. We may yet be surprised.
I don't see it as being unfair, its just the way it is. Our parents want grandkids, we are unlikely to produce any.
So I'm 41 and the wife is 42 and neither one of us have ever wanted kids
For those whose wives don't want kids, keep them away from smelling a newborns head....it was like a switch flicking my other halves hormones on!
[quote=anotherdeadhero ]
Are you both without siblings? Hardly fair for you to have that responsibility forced on you alone, even if just by the power of guilt. Any critical system should have redundancy and backups.
We do, but it isn't looking much more hopeful in that direction either.
Backup failure. I'd sack the managers.
Almost Managed to reach 38 with no kids ... Now at 39 I have a 15 month old and a 3 month pregnant wife.
Squeezing it all in before I'm 40 🙂
We are near bang on the target age, no kids here & currently no intentions to.
Thankfully on my wife's side there already grandchildren, and also thankfully on my side despite being an only child my parents are fairly ambivalent to grand children. Doesn't stop people feeling like they have the right to stick their noses in and force their opinions onto us though.
We're not having kids just because 'that's what people do, isn't it'.
Doesn't stop people feeling like they have the right to stick their noses in and force their opinions onto us though.
its because they want you to suffer like they have.
[i]We may get to 60 and realise we made a mistake; you can only try to live without regrets and enjoy the life you have built together, whatever your choices were along the way. [/i]
It'll more likely happen when one of you loses the other and suddenly you've nobody who really cares for you nor anyone to care for.
And/or, no one to rely on to help you out when you've a problem that you either can't cope with nor fathom out. This is something that becomes apparent as your parents age, and suddenly you realise they rely on you like you did of them.
Having kids because you need them to look after you or because you're scared you might regret not doing - these don't seem like great reasons.
As per some of the above posts, I got together with Mrs Deviant because I want to be with her not because she can have children (or not, who knows?!)...our attitude has always been that we're happy without but if it happens later on we'd probably have children....we're 37 (me) and 32 (her) and don't use contraception, if it happens it happens....she loves her horse, I love anything with two wheels and we both love dogs!
We've had one proper termination a few years ago and called upon the morning after pill a few times, irresponsible?...maybe, been together 7 years and known each other since she was 18....there is no pussy-footing around in our relationship, we're about as cold and clinical as two people get!
Our chats about children are not emotional, they tend to revolve around money, spare time, the hideousness of childbirth, child care and work etc etc....realistically I suppose we're just not very nice people and we know we're incredibly selfish...at least we have insight and have made the appropriate decisions so far unlike some of my friends and colleagues who shouldn't be allowed pets let alone children.
Overpaid the mortgage for 15 years whilst we were trying for kids that never arrived. Now 42 and only working 3 days a week due to a really small mortgage. Would I have preferred to have had kids when we were trying? Yes. Would I choose to have some now? No.
As for getting looked after we've got pleny of younger cousins, neices and nephews and by the time we need it 2 houses to give away when we die.
Mrs CD has just had her 20 week scan and we're having a baby girl. I'm 39, she's 36, later than all our friends but it took longer to find each other and it took a while to conceive.
I never wanted kids until recently, others may feel different.
We may get to 60 and realise we made a mistake; you can only try to live without regrets and enjoy the life you have built together, whatever your choices were along the way.
A friend recently said to me that regret is not a reason to have kids.
Mrs CD has just had her 20 week scan and we're having a baby girl. I'm 39, she's 36, later than all our friends but it took longer to find each other and it took a while to conceive.
I never wanted kids until recently, others may feel different.
Aaaaah huge congrats mate! Didn't realise you were that old! 😀
I wouldn't say there is any right age to have kids, but one issue I see with having kids later in life is that the grand parents are less likely to be able to help out with looking after the kids & in fact might be needing your help to look after themselves at the same time you are having kids yourself. This is coming from the vantage point of having had kids relatively young (3 boys before I hit 30) & also them only having one grandparent left alive before my oldest son turned 11 🙁
I'm 38 and have been single that long I don't even know how to approach a women. People seem surprised that I'm 38, single and no kids.
I actually backed away from my oldest mate as everytime I went round, his wife was always saying " oh you will be left on the shelf....." Did my head in and I've not spoke to him in over a year now.
Will I regret not having kids later ? Doubt it. I've 2 Godaughters who are awesome but my mates ( their dads ) are always telling me off for being too soft with them.
Leaving aside the "no one to take care of us" argument as that seems a bit silly and pretty selfish, the regret one is interesting...if you hate kids or have that disparaging attitude towards parents and families of the usual suspects from the STW Childhaters' Brigade (who curiously enough, seem irresistibly drawn to these threads), then you probably won't be asking yourself if you should or shouldn't. And that's fair enough. It's probably best for everyone involved, you'd probably make an arse of the job anyway.
If you're undecided, I reckon go for it - it's more than likely that you're going to love the child unconditionally. Anecdotally, it seems that most people who were a bit ambivalent towards parenthood beforehand do end up loving their kid(s) and enjoy the experience. The feelings of resentment at missing that snowboarding holiday, impromptu piss-ups and other stuff that seems to happen less after the little one arrives for a few years are more than compensated by the other stuff that new parents gush about all the time. Weighed up against the chances of a (half-ish) lifetime of regret should you decide you'd have liked some after all but now it's either biologically impossible or requiring hugely expensive medical intervention, might be best to just have one or two. You [i]probably[/i] won't regret it.
I confess to being a bit trolly on these threads cos some people's attitudes wind me up a little. I'm still not convinced by the argument of 'you might as well because it will probably be great', even though I think it's mostly true. I reckon if I had kids it would be great, but I reckon not having kids could be just as great, in a different way.
I guess the thing that grates on me a bit is some people seem to be suggesting that they think they are a 'better person' for having kids - I'm sure most will deny this but it sort of implies 'I'm a better person than people who don't have kids'. I'm sure parenting can bring out some great things in people, but it can also bring out some not so nice stuff too.
Sure it's a natural instinct to some extent but when people get all 'the only thing in the world that matters is my child/children' I don't think it's particularly healthy or admirable. I know that doesn't happen with everyone but I've seen it with a few people, to varying degrees.
it’s the ‘little miracle’ idolisation clouding peoples judgement that sometimes irks, hormones are obviously quite powerful to muddle peoples thinking so much.
lets face it shagging is a basic reflex action that requires little thought and giving birth is not a miracle or there wouldn’t be 2500 births per hour worldwide.
[i]Leaving aside the "no one to take care of us" argument as that seems a bit silly and pretty selfish,[/i]
Maybe, but it has been the main driver for the human race since the beginning of time - except maybe in the first world for the last century or so...
I'm still not convinced by the argument
I'm not arguing, nor am I trying to convince. More applying some thought (though there's probably a better term) to a "should we, shouldn't we" type question one may be asking oneself. Just trying to look at it from a quirkier perspective other than the two dimensional arguments for and against to which these threads typically descend.
I guess the thing that grates on me a bit is some people seem to be suggesting that they think they are a 'better person' for having kids - I'm sure most will deny this but it sort of implies 'I'm a better person than people who don't have kids'.
I disagree...and I suspect you're arriving at that conclusion because of the attitude that you demonstrate in parenting threads whenever they crop up. I think most people (when they say that) perhaps mean they feel they're a better person than they were before, not necessarily better than anybody else - to give them the benefit of the doubt. Look, I'm not proscribing any particular choice - and I don't feel I'm a better person for having become a parent - I'm different for sure, some good, perhaps some not so good (though I'm so overcome with my own amazeballsness, I haven't got round to working those out yet. 😀 ).
Sure it's a natural instinct to some extent but when people get all 'the only thing in the world that matters is my child/children' I don't think it's particularly healthy or admirable. I know that doesn't happen with everyone but I've seen it with a few people, to varying degrees.
Again, apply some latitude to what people mean when they say this. I've seen it to varying degrees too, but to very very few people, and to be honest, the ones I can think of were bloody boring about other stuff beforehand.
hormones are obviously quite powerful to muddle peoples thinking so much.
I know what you mean. It's like the desire to post trollish remarks on threads just to wind people up and get an erection at the same time - that muddles peoples' minds too and makes otherwise normal people seem like massive bell-ends...unless of course that person really is a bell-end, which I suspect is true in lots of cases.
I was almost going to become a dad this year, I'm only 26 and it terrified me. My girlfriend at the time couldn't see through what I guess is hormones and think logically about it (ie I'd only known her for 6 months, we're both pretty young with careers to go after and all that stuff) for a while but I'm so glad we didn't go through with it. Felt like a massive weight had been lifted off my shoulders. Not sure if I'll ever want to get into that position again, just don't think it's for me at all. She was well up for it, and so the relationship ended as we clearly want different things out of life! Not ready to settle down any time soon.
I know what you mean. It's like the desire to post trollish remarks on threads just to wind people up and get an erection at the same time - that muddles peoples' minds too and makes otherwise normal people seem like massive bell-ends...unless of course that person really is a bell-end, which I suspect is true in lots of cases.
i’m not sure i’m with you on the sexualisation of posting on the internet but if that makes you tumescent then fill your boots. but yes it’s surprising how normal people think they are the best drivers, and are superior parents etc. i see the same kind of reactions when challenged by the unthinkable notion that they are not perfect behind the wheel and neither are their wonderful offspring.*
*not at driving, you know what i mean
i’m not sure i’m with you on the sexualisation of posting on the internet
Yeah, maybe your mind is a bit muddled. Again.
I disagree...and I suspect you're arriving at that conclusion because of the attitude that you demonstrate in parenting threads whenever they crop up. I think most people (when they say that) perhaps mean they feel they're a better person than they were before, not necessarily better than anybody else - to give them the benefit of the doubt.
I dunno, perhaps I'm being over-sensitive (like a parent when their child/parenting is criticised 😉 ) but the theme of a lot of what people say about parenting comes across to me a bit like this:
Before children I was shallow and selfish and my life lacked meaning, now I have children AND ITS THE MOST AMAZING THING EVER and if you don't have them you are still shallow and selfish and missing out and will die lonely and full of regret.
I find people being evangelical about anything tedious - as you say some people are boring about anything, but parenting seems to be one of the few things where it's still socially acceptable to evangelise.
Yeah, maybe your mind is a bit muddled. Again.
i think it might be you with the angry bee in your bonnet 🙄
I wouldn't worry about whether other people think you're leaving it too late or not ,personally I'm happy with the way we ended up doing it (1st son at 35 2nd at nearly 41).
Mrscarlos and I have been together since being 19 years old ,at that age I wanted to start a family but she said no way so we spent the next 15 years enjoying each others company and doing what we wanted. All of our friends who got together about the same time and had kids early have split up ,having a family early didn't work for them.
My boys are now 10 and 4 and there are times I wish we'd started earlier as the pair of them make the duracell bunny look like a sloth but it keeps us both going. I have noticed at school there are a lot of older parents so I don't feel like a grandad when picking them up(even if I feel like one 1/2 an hour after getting them to bed)
[i] I reckon if I had kids it would be great, but I reckon not having kids could be just as great, in a different way.[/i]
People can only speak from their own experiences, but at the risk of being accused of evangelising, for me - I cannot agree with this statement. Although I might have done before I had kids. Make of that what you will.
now I have children AND ITS THE MOST AMAZING THING EVER
And you know what? For some people it is. I can't see why you can't accept that. You might not like that they no longer see snowboarding, DJing, photography (to pick a few examples 😉 etc ) and endlessly droning on about them in the pub on a schoolnight as the fulfilling activities they once did. But their lives and priorities have changed. They're still the same people - just with a different outlook and a bit less availability for getting pissed on a Tuesday evening.
...if you don't have them you are still shallow and selfish and missing out and will die lonely and full of regretI find people being evangelical about anything tedious - as you say some people are boring about anything, but parenting seems to be one of the few things where it's still socially acceptable to evangelise.
Tbh, I'd find it tedious too if it was as common as you seem to be making out, but it really isn't in my world. Almost as tedious as people making sweeping generalisations. But I don't think that's going to stop people doing it anytime soon.
People can only speak from their own experiences, but at the risk of being accused of evangelising, for me - I cannot agree with this statement. Although I might have done before I had kids. Make of that what you will.
I agree, but by the same token, you can't assume that everyone will feel the same way. It is kind of an irreversible action, and nobody can be sure that their circumstances will engender appreciation of parenting from an ambivalent initial premise.
I think the natural tendency is for parents to espouse the 'kids are great, you'll love being a parent view', in a similar manner to bike kit reviews: everyone should get what you have got, because you're convinced you've got the best. What is the technical term for this, confirmation bias? I forget.
I have known several parents, both male and female, all ages, both early and late starters, who privately confide that they wish they had not had children. I'm sure these people do not openly and publicly air this view. Attempting to guess the frequency of either distribution is difficult, and as alluded to above, possibly irrelevant on an individual basis.
To anyone worried about being an old parent, there's a simple solution. Move to London and you'll almost certainly not stick out as an old parent 🙂
Whenever I go back, I'm always struck by how noticeably older parents of young kids are compared to elsewhere.
(To the OP - do what you reckon is right. People pushing you to have them is just subconscious validation of their own choices)
I reckon if I had kids it would be great, but I reckon not having kids could be just as great, in a different way.People can only speak from their own experiences, but at the risk of being accused of evangelising, for me - I cannot agree with this statement. Although I might have done before I had kids. Make of that what you will.
Same as Stevet1, I would have before having a child agreed with grum as I was (and still am) pretty happy with life and having kids was never a big big deal to me, and I didn't really get people gushing about their children as its really not that exciting or amazing that little Jonny can point at shapes of animals on demand and I always hated people giving me there most precious 'thing' to hold.
However since my little one turned up and this is only my personal view about my personal circumstances, I now realise what I was missing out on a very rich and fulfilling experience. I guess its similar to the view that you don't miss what you have never had, however to dismiss something you haven't experienced as not as good as what you already have seems like a crazily blinkered view of life to me, yes the grass isn't always greener, but sometimes it is, and for me in this case I am glad I took the chance.
Also, if you really think that people are harping on about how great it is to have kids, so you are just as stuck as them not doing whatever you want to, when you want to. Then it might be worth taking a bit of time to evaluate your life as that level of cynicism about life isn't healthy.
Not having kids is OK, having kids is OK, thinking that everyone is conspiring to ruin your life is seriously not OK.
thinking that everyone is conspiring to ruin your life is seriously not OK.
Nah, it's your kids that do that 😉
And you know what? For some people it is. I can't see why you can't accept that. You might not like that they no longer see snowboarding, DJing, photography (to pick a few examples etc ) and endlessly droning on about them in the pub on a schoolnight as the fulfilling activities they once did. But their lives and priorities have changed. They're still the same people - just with a different outlook and a bit less availability for getting pissed on a Tuesday evening.
OK, but at least I drone on about a variety of things, not just the same one over and over and over again. 🙂
Also, if you really think that people are harping on about how great it is to have kids, so you are just as stuck as them not doing whatever you want to, when you want to. Then it might be worth taking a bit of time to evaluate your life as that level of cynicism about life isn't healthy.
Eh?
Not having kids is OK, having kids is OK, thinking that everyone is conspiring to ruin your life is seriously not OK.
Eh?
I don't see many people without kids saying 'you should try not having kids sometime, it's amazing - you're really missing out', but it seems to be ok to say this the other way round. And as someone said up there, I suspect there are many people who actually do regret having kids (or are at least on the fence) but it's not really socially acceptable to say so. Some people sound a bit like they are trying to convince themselves they love it.
I don't think it's really fair to paint me as some cynical child-hater for saying this - as I've already said I reckon if I had kids I'd probably get on with it and enjoy it, but I'm not sure if it's particularly for me.
I think going 'well I'm not feeling any burning desire to have kids but everyone else does it and they all say it's great so I suppose I might as well, plus I'll have someone to look after me when I'm old' is really a great way of looking at things.
OK, but at least I drone on about a variety of things, not just the same one over and over and over again.
Meaningless, empty and boring for some people. Not for me though, as I genuinely try and take an interest in the things my friends find interesting rather than accusing [i]all[/i] of them of evangelising about their particular thing.
but I'm not sure if it's particularly for me.
You don't say! 😀
A few points if I may:
1. By the time you decide you want children, it may be too late.
2. There's almost NEVER a good time to have children.
3. Its almost impossible to imagine being a parent, so difficult to decide if you are going to enjoy it or not.
4. No one can ever tell anyone else how they will feel when their first child arrives.
........and finally, my Mum is now an 84 yr old widow and in good nick, but she has been badly scammed and relies on both my brother and I to help her wiv stuff. I genuinely wonder how she would fare without us. So it's a potentially big issue being stored up for childless people.