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Not for me though, as I genuinely try and take an interest in the things my friends find interesting rather than accusing all of them of evangelising about their particular thing.
Pretty sure I haven't accused [i]all[/i] of my friends of evangelising about one thing? Just think there is a bit of tendency that way with some parents. I genuinely like hearing some stuff about some of my friend's kids - when they do something that's funny or interesting, or there is a particularly nice picture of them or something.
Meaningless, empty and boring for some people.
Because those people are so obsessed with their children that nothing else could ever seem worthwhile or interesting to them? 😛
I'm not claiming I don't bore some people on Facebook with the shit I'm into - in fact I'm sure I do.
You're not on my list of boring parents BTW darcy. 😉
He's on mine 😉
I don't think it's really fair to paint me as some cynical child-hater for saying this - as I've already said I reckon if I had kids I'd probably get on with it and enjoy it, but I'm not sure if it's particularly for me.I think going 'well I'm not feeling any burning desire to have kids but everyone else does it and they all say it's great so I suppose I might as well, plus I'll have someone to look after me when I'm old' is really a great way of looking at things.
Sounds like I had similar views to you tbh.
Personally I wasn't worried about getting old and the associated risks, the decider for me was my other half really wanted kids, so for me her happiness was more important to me than my ambivalence.
Stating the obvious one thing to consider is I know a few people in long term relationships where it has all gone a bit wrong when they find out its no longer their choice and one of them starts to resent the other. As whilst they both said they weren't bothered one way or another it turns out women sometimes don't say what they really mean, and when its too late there is **** all you can do about it as you don't get a second go at life.
He's on mine
Who are you? 🙂
On my very rare visits to the pub, I have to be virtually forced at knife point to talk about my kids.
And I can't say my dad pals tend to drone on about theirs either.
Just saying.
But my Facebook is virtually all kids, dog and bikes.
It's all I get time to do ffs.
Charles Kennedy - probably not the right time but another perfectly good reason to have kids earlier rather than later 🙁 in fact my first wife was the daughter of older parents who died when she was 9 (father) & 16 (mother), my ineptitude at parenthood in my mid 20's doesn't hold a candle to loosing one's parents at an early age
34 when my twin girls were born. 2 in August.
When they arrived I had a few months of dawning realisation of what my parents had been through to bring me into the world. I know now that is something I can never repay to them, but I can pay it forward to my own kids.
We stand on the shoulders of countless generations and as a species we sweep forward relentlessly. As individuals, we all have the responsibility of those countless generations on our hands and I think you need to have a pretty good reason not to even try. Not wanting kids because you think you'll be a terrible parent is a good reason. Fretting about your freedom is not.
All IMO of course.
I'm with Grum on this, I think.
I get that people are enthusiastic about things that they're passionate about. But I've had a few friends for whom reproducing has replaced their sense of self. They've turned from interesting people into "babies babies babies babies babies deep breath babies babies babies babies babies babies babies." Everything they ever say or do involves babies in some wholly irrelevant way. "Went to the bank today to pay a cheque in, with my baby." Their entire life has been surrogated and whilst I applaud doting parents I think it's a little bit sad that now they're living someone else's life rather than their own. They shouldn't be mutually exclusive.
EDIT: sorry... gonna delete that
that was just blatant trolling and pretty mean-spirited
Non-breeders have already got enough to deal with 🙂
reproducing
To be honest, the fact that you have to constantly refer to parenthood as "reproducing" or "reproduction" on any related thread tells me all I need to know about your attitude to the whole thing.
But I've had a few friends
So is that all your friends who've become parents? Around half? Just a few? I reckon I can count a "few" people out of every subset of friends-what-have-something-in-common who are a bit of a bore about their particular thing. It kinda follows that way with folk. There are always going to be a few that ruin it for the rest of the normal ones.
To be honest, the fact that you have to constantly refer to parenthood as "reproducing" or "reproduction" on any related thread tells me all I need to know about your attitude to the whole thing.
You misinterpret intent in my light-hearted and irreverent writing style here I fear.
So is that all your friends who've become parents? Around half? Just a few?
Just a few. Clue's in the use of the word "few" in the sentence you quoted. I was by no means generalising, they're a minority.
People who dedicate their lives to their kids is one thing, people who dedicate their lives to an online forum posting thousands of times is another!
I get that people are enthusiastic about things that they're passionate about. But I've had a few friends for whom reproducing has replaced their sense of self.
"Hi how are you?"
"little Timmy did his first proper pooh"
"That's nice, so what else is new?"
"Tilly has got here name down for a good school"
"Great, and how are you?"
"Oh fine now we have found a good childminder who can prepare vegetarian food"
And so I goes on, any sense of self is replaced with the minutiae of mini-me's life steps. Thankfully not everyone falls into that trap but it's far too common.
Makes me think of that Nick Helm sketch and playing the heavy metal CD round his mates at vol3
I think you need to have a pretty good reason not to even try.
Because it's my decision, and nothing to do with you.
HTH 😉
You misinterpret...
I'm not convinced to be honest, but there's no point in arguing it further.
Thankfully not everyone falls into that trap but it's far too common.
You're finally getting there.
I only want kids if I become so well off, I can afford to give up most of my work whilst owning some house in a warm country with a big pool, a poolside bar and a balcony overlooking it all so that can prowl like a lion.
If I do manage that, then I will have four and start my own dynasty/clan.
You're finally getting there.
You lead the way o wise one
We stand on the shoulders of countless generations and as a species we sweep forward relentlessly. As individuals, we all have the responsibility of those countless generations on our hands and I think you need to have a pretty good reason not to even try.
You see, this is the kind of arrogant nonsense I'm talking about darcy. Apparently I need to have a pretty good reason not to even try and have kids. Excuse me?
You see, this is the kind of arrogant nonsense I'm talking about darcy. Apparently I need to have a pretty good reason not to even try and have kids. Excuse me?
Yeah, not sure having more kids is the best option with our current rate of consumption.
What do we owe history, or even biology? Tourmanalis seems to think we have a moral obligation to pass on our genes? Why? The human species given a long enough timeline will be extinct anyway.
Most of my friends who've had kids seem to fall in to one of two camps:
They are either totally self absorbed, have become boring and seem to spend their entire lives posting pictures of said kids on Facebook.
Or they seem totally stressed out about the whole thing, have little time or cash and rarely ever come biking any more.
Thankfully there are a small minority who seem to get it right and involve the kids in their hobbies, friends etc (rather than revolving everything about their lives around the kids) Kids seem happier too in this instance.
awww man...
look at all the cute unrealised non-breeders venting their (understandable) insecurity on the proper grown-ups
the paradox is, that although full maturity as a human being cannot possibly be achieved until you have experienced the unfathomable infinite responsibility of parenthood, you're probably emotionally better off revelling in blissful ignorance 🙂
Thankfully there are a small minority who seem to get it right and involve the kids in their hobbies, friends etc (rather than revolving everything about their lives around the kids) Kids seem happier too in this instance.
That's an overwhelming majority in my case. I dunno...maybe it's the people you hang out with.
Tourmanalis seems to think we have a moral obligation to pass on our genes? Why?
I don't actually, I think everyone should do whatever they want. My personal experience of parenthood has left me with a great sense of indebtedness to my folks and that is something I wish to pay forward to my kids. My post was largely about my own motivations but flame away!
My husband was 41 when my oldest was born.....I was only 23 though. Glad we had them when we did, I'd say how old is your other half?!? I am now 37, probably fitter than I was at 23, but glad I had mine when I did (23 and 25),
I know people who left it late and ended up either childless, or had only one (even tough they really would have liked more).
Simone
the paradox is, that although full maturity as a human being cannot possibly be achieved until you have experienced the unfathomable infinite responsibility of parenthood, you're probably emotionally better off revelling in blissful ignorance
Have you seen Benefits Street on the telly?
So darcy - you seem to reckon I'm being over-sensitive or trolling or anti-children or something and get quite upset by these kinds of viewpoints, but you're fine with this stuff cos they're 'on your side'?
I think you need to have a pretty good reason not to even try.
the paradox is, that although full maturity as a human being cannot possibly be achieved until you have experienced the unfathomable infinite responsibility of parenthood
😆
Yeah you seem totes mature yunki - I can only imagine what you were like before having children! 🙂
I'm 37, wife is 34. Zero kids and that will never change. It always makes me chuckle that those with kids will happily tell the childless that they're making a mistake, but if I told a parent they made a mistake by having a child I'd be considered a horrible person.
Have them or don't. Its a personal choice either way that should never be swayed by the opinions of others or some misguided sense of what society expects.
So darcy - you seem to reckon I'm being over-sensitive or trolling or anti-children or something
Yep, I do. I also think you're not great at taking what you dish out, at least not on these threads anyway.
Yeah you seem totes mature yunki
Your mum seems totes mature.. and your bum smells of poo
I'm forty-one and have never really wanted kids...my missus is a couple of years older (not being specific as she frequents these pages) and had twins from her previous relationship.
The boys are now seventeen, I love them both to bits and I wouldn't want to suddenly dump a little brother or sister on them now.
I've always taken the view that there are plenty of unwanted kids out there who don't have a home. I've always been open to the idea of adoption or fostering.
Yes, relationships have failed in the past because I feel the way I do, but I can honestly look back with no regrets.
Yep, I do. I also think you're not great at taking what you dish out, at least not on these threads anyway.
Maybes - I confess to some mild trolling but I reckon you're being a bit over-sensitive (like most parents 😛 ). And I reckon you are a bit oblivious to some of the dickishness that gets directed towards non-parents (just as I probably am the other way round).
I've always taken the view that there are plenty of unwanted kids out there who don't have a home. I've always been open to the idea of adoption or fostering.
Yeah I reckon it's a really admirable thing to do and if I was to have kids would probably lean towards going down that route. Though possibly I shouldn't be allowed near children with my extreme pedophobia.
Your mum seems totes mature.. and your bum smells of poo
Good point, well made. 🙂
...a bit over-sensitive
Honestly, I have no words, just 😆
And I reckon you are a bit oblivious to some of the dickishness...
I dunno mate, I'm losing you now...you seem intent on trying to paint me into some kind of corner, based on heavens knows what. A while back you were talking about someone being on my "side". I have no "side". I like people to be happy with their choices and not to make sweeping generalisations about the choices of others. As I said earlier, I don't proscribe any course of action.
If you don't like this kind of stuff being pointed out to you, just let us know or ask STW for a "Can Give. Can't take." tag after your username so we know to treat you with kid gloves. Otherwise, if you're going to dish it out, then be prepared to take it back without being a pussy about it. I'm not thing to troll anyone just give my point of view from within my frame of reference, in the forlorn hope that it might prick some little bit of empathy into life. (I realise we're on STW and empathy is in short supply sometimes though.)
Wow.
What i'm pointing out is that you're being a hypocrite about it. You see it as fine for people to be dicks/patronise/demean/troll non-parents without commenting on it, but when I do it a little bit the other way round (and admit it) it's totally not ok? And if I point out the hypocrisy I'm being a 'pussy'?
Yeah I reckon that's taking sides and being over-sensitive.
What was the quote 'the Internet: pick a side, be a dick about it'? 🙂
If we're talking about empathy, how about some empathy for people who've decided they (probably) don't want kids basically being told repeatedly that they are wrong, and they just don't get how wrong they are? There's a reasonable amount of society/family expectation on most people to have kids IMO - are you saying that's not the case?
Well this one has gone as expected, say no kids and your a parent hater/kid hater. Say kids are the answer to everything and everyone else is stupid and your fine.
It's a personal choice, people can make that choice. I personally don't feel I need kids to complete my life a view shared by a number of my friends.
I think you need to have a pretty good reason not to even try.
the paradox is, that although full maturity as a human being cannot possibly be achieved until you have experienced the unfathomable infinite responsibility of parenthood
Top trolling there guys.
If you pin your hopes of fulfillment as a human being on your ability to reproduce then I pity you. There is so much more to life.
My missus is stressing time is running out. I'm 34 this year she is 33 and her best mate is preggers (I've) while another has been knocking little ones out for fun. We will do things the way our parents did, get married first so that could take a year. She is worried time is not on her side, I would like a kid or two so I guess I'd best get a move on!
Do I worry about supporting a family? Sure I do, I'd have to give up buying overpriced expensive bikes and carbon wheels and buy a people mover (T5/6 day van but the missus does not know that yet)
say no kids and your a parent hater/kid hater
Whereas no one actually said this, did they?
What was the quote 'the Internet: pick a side, be a dick about it'?
As I said, I don't have a [i]side[/i]. I have a frame of reference from within I can try to make someone see my point of view. [i]Not[/i] agree with it, just see where I'm coming from and why I might try and challenge silly generalisations. If you have a problem with the generalisations (or trolling) of others, then challenge them. There's no point blaming me for them or having a go at me for not challenging them for you.
Oh and...
Wow
Come on, let's try and be grown-up about it without the silly putdownery of starting a post like this.
There's no point blaming me for them or having a go at me for not challenging them for you.
That's not what I was doing, I was saying it's hypocritical to seemingly get quite upset/pissed off about it in one direction but not the other. Hence me saying you seem to have a 'side'.
Come on, let's try and be grown-up about it without the silly putdownery of starting a post like this.
Not meant like that. Genuinely quite shocked by how vitriolic/scornful you were towards me in that post.
And if we're talking about silly sweeping generalisations - you used the phrase 'STW Childhaters' Brigade' a way back in this thread.
deadlydarcy - Member
...if you hate kids or have that disparaging attitude towards parents and families of the usual suspects from the STW Childhaters' Brigade (who curiously enough, seem irresistibly drawn to these threads), then you probably won't be asking yourself if you should or shouldn't. And that's fair enough. It's probably best for everyone involved, you'd probably make an arse of the job anyway.
Amazingly some people want to present views that are the other side of the discussion, sort of a balance to the whole thing. Should we mark threads as being for positive reinforcement only? You know like should I try gap jumping canyons at my age - of course you should what could possibly go wrong.
To be fair Grum, you started the attacks in this thread, as you have in other threads of this nature in the past..
And I still don't believe that even [i]you[/i] believe that generally people in life think you're weird for not having kids.. Not really, not deep down in your heart.. It's all in yer head mate..
Sorry for taking the piss, but it's too easy.. Nominating that auld fella on the first page for **** of the thread, simply cos he offered his advice was just begging for trouble..
You've made yer choice, but you don't half come across as sour about it
Hence me saying you seem to have a 'side'.
I can't find any more ways to explain that I don't have a "side". And I wasn't being vitriolic - if you can't take being trolled, then don't do it in the first place. (The empathy stuff was a general point and not aimed at you in particular, if that was unclear.)
Anyway, we're straying towards attacking tone of post and not arguing the points themselves, which is dickish and pointless. I'm hitting the sack as I have a flight to Copenhagen to catch tomorrow. First child-free long weekend for us in two and a half years. I'm looking forward to the lie-ins on Saturday and Sunday mornings. And we don't have to upset anybody on the plane with a crying child. 😀
EDIT:
Amazingly some people want to present views that are the other side of the discussion, sort of a balance to the whole thing.
I have no problems with anybody presenting alternative points of view mike. But if they're made in a trollish way, and make sweeping generalisations, then don't go getting upset when they're challenged. To be fair, I notice you have moderated your previous views to a degree when you're irresistibly drawn to these threads and I congratulate you for that.
Right, I really must hit the sack, I'm up awfully late for a breeder.
Enjoy Copenhagen darcy (it will be so much better without kids 😛 ). Defo bedtime.
yunki - I attacked this guy because I thought he was being a proper bellend (still do).
Do it now. Start tonight. Don't necessarily try for a baby, just stop using contraception.
Being a parent is a job for the young, at any rate not for the old.I don't know anyone with kids who has regretted it (except perhaps one with a handicapped child)
But at 60+ I do know a number of childless couples who get teary when drunk, about how they wish they'd had them and how they made the wrong decisions in their 30s to have "fun" instead. In the scheme of things, that "fun" pales into insignificance beside the joys & terrors of children.
And if you can't see several instances of bellend in that post them I'm afraid you must have the pro-parenting blinkers on. I can spell it out for you if you like.
And I still don't believe that even you believe that generally people in life think you're weird for not having kids.. Not really, not deep down in your heart.. It's all in yer head mate..
It's not so much that, but it's quite a big decision to make and yes sometimes there are doubts - but people basically telling you you're wrong is pretty shit. I don't tell people they're wrong and they'll be full of regret and that they're missing out on fulfilling experiences for not playing in a band, not snowboarding, not DJing, not MTBing, not being a photographer, or even for doing boring jobs they hate that take over their whole life. I've had some amazing experiences doing those things but I wouldn't be so presumptuous and arrogant as to assume I know what's best and instruct others that the way I've chosen is not only the best way for me, but for everyone. And yet several people in this thread have done exactly that, and it's representative of a reasonably widely held view in society.
Grum, you'd just be alpha male/club them over the head, knock them up and then run type if you were a hunter gatherer.
No need to make excuses, you're just not the type biologically who wants to waste a lot of resources on a kid who may or may not be yours! 😆
It's just unfortunately r-selection reproductive strategy is generally frowned upon in todays society. Don't blame it on your upbringing though, blame it on your genes 😀 We all know why they don't like people like you.....you might knock up their wimminz and run off to go skiing leaving them to look after all those totes amazeballz kids.
And if you can't see several instances of bellend in that post them I'm afraid you must have the pro-parenting blinkers on. I can spell it out for you if you like.
Lulz.. no thanks mate... I think your calling someone a **** when they offer the wisdom of their experience tells me all I need to know 🙂
Nae weans. We haven't been "trying" for children - more a case of not trying not to - for 15 years, so with myself and herself both now in our mid-late 40s it looks it's not going to happen. We are at peace with our place in history as an evolutionary cul-de-sac, I guess.
Didn't really fancy joining the Darwinian clamour for IVF via my local NHS, and could never afford to do it privately. In a world of finite supply and increasing demand for resources, an inability to reproduce does not strike me as an illness, as such, as something you need to be cured of. Maybe more of a blessing.
Sometimes it bothers me, sometimes it doesn't. Being on the childless side of the fence, I veer between scoffing at parents who assume absolutely everyone will find their children as endlessly novel as they do, and being appalled by news stories about ****less, sexually incontinent parents who abuse and neglect their umpteen kids - when there are so many people who would give their eye teeth to have just one. Although I don't consider myself to be [i]that[/i] bothered, I have a recurring dream which features a tiny baby that I feel an overwhelming and intense sense of affection for. Then I wake up, and there is no real baby screaming to be fed and for its arse to be wiped, and I feel relieved. But the fact that I dream about something that rarely troubles me in my waking hours suggests that the lack of a mini-me is a fundamental itch that I may come to regret failing to scratch.