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It is possible to earn a good salary and have a good quality of life. The two things aren’t mutually exclusive.
It is possible to earn a good salary and have a good quality of life. The two things aren’t mutually exclusive.
I would say its easier 🙂
However there is an epidemic of mental health and physical health issues t6hat are as a result of how capitalism conditions us to behave. folk striving for material goods leaving their kids to grow up wondering where Mum and Dad are, Comfort / easy food making us fat and giving us diabetes. Stress from hours sitting in a car everyday............................................
Our society does not lead us to happiness overall
If the challenges of you job are about what you are actually employed to do and within your power to change and resolve , then those challenges do not (or at least far less likely to) lead to stress, ie if you are an IT bod, the challenges are technical, you get proper management support and training to progress your skillset to keep resolving those challenges. However if you have to work with poor company culture where you are not properly resourced, don't get the proper training and support then challenges become stressful very quickly
Challenging environments can be good, stressful environments are never good.
stressful environments are never good.
If it's challenging then there is always some "stress" be that physical or mental.
ie if you are an IT bod, the challenges are technical,
It would appear that the challenge of being in IT is trying not to share a space with your fellow workers. Who knew?
It is possible to earn a good salary and have a good quality of life. The two things aren’t mutually exclusive.
Of course, But it's also possible to be happy whilst not having to chase every single penny. Many people don't seem to understand that you can have a smaller (cheaper) home, buy less stuff, work fewer hours, yet still have a great lifestyle, and be happy. My wife and I could both work more, earn more, but would we be any happier? I doubt it. Sure, there is a level of wealth below which life is noticeably more challenging, but a lot of people max out on mortgages, credit etc, when they don't need to. Our aforementioned neighbours (they with the fancy soft sheets) work far more hours than us, yet spend a lot more too, and I'm not sure they have much to show for it. We have just as nice things that we need, have just as nice holidays, but aren't stressing about the bills. So we aren't any 'worse' off than them, ultimately.
@MSP responsibility without autonomy is a recipe for misery.
Many people don’t seem to understand that you can have a smaller (cheaper) home, buy less stuff, work fewer hours, yet still have a great lifestyle, and be happy. My wife and I could both work more, earn more, but would we be any happier?
I think that's very subjective. I'm definitely happier for earning more money than I did several years ago, it's allowed me to do things that I wouldn't otherwise have been able to justify to myself. And yes, I could have lived a simpler life without those experiences, but I'm happier for having had them, and I don't regret the time I've had to spend to get to such a position.
@rockchic..... Snap!
Other than I've van and started in 2022.... And I fortunately have an EU passport (the only Brexit benefit I can think of even if it might be a bit egoistic).
It's still possible despite the Schengen/EU bollocks.... Turkey gives you three months stay and there are lots of Balkan countries outside of the EU.
Have only heard good things about Turkey. Warm in winter, lots of space, relaxed people and it's relatively cheap.
Of course, But it’s also possible to be happy whilst not having to chase every single penny.
sure. but its not the binary choice that seems to be being presented by many on this thread.
I think a lot of people try to find meaning through consumption and are encouraged to do so by capitalism. I think that many feel insecure and compensate through status symbols. I also think that many people are just basically unhappy.
I don't believe that modern society is geared up for an individuals happiness.
It's geared up so that a few profit from the misery of the masses.
You're sold the idea of happiness... Buy this, but that. Gratiate your "needs" now. Little view to the long term. People generally are ever more isolated with little time for others.
How many people do you know that are on pills so that they can function? Function in terms of fitting into society.
I would rather not be prescribed pills so that I fit into society. I would prefer a society that is geared up for the individual. I know this might sound ironic to some given the amount of drugs I willing take. I think for many, not being sober is a coping mechanism, myself included.
Interestingly, it's been my experience that people that have less have been the most generous. The more wealth someone has, the less willing they are to help others.
I think that it's the idea that happiness is something that can and should be pursued that causes a lot of the problems.
I think that it’s the idea that happiness is something that can and should be pursued that causes a lot of the problems.
I disagree strongly - happiness should be the aim of all our lives surely? The problem is happiness is not in consumption as capitalism conditions us. I have pursued happiness all my life with a fair bit of success - but it mainly comes in forms you cannot buy - a walk on the beach, the company of friends etc etc
There is a growing argument though, that if we dedicate ourselves to achieving happiness, then any time we're not happy can trigger feelings of depression or failure:
https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20210105-why-our-pursuit-of-happiness-may-be-flawed
I disagree strongly – happiness should be the aim of all our lives surely?
There is quite a lot of evidence that people have an inherent happiness 'setpoint' from which we spike up or down given external factors but trend back to our setpoint over time, although this can be influenced with 'intentional efforts' (diversification of activities/experiences, engage in positive relationships, engage in meaningful activities, practice gratitude and similar efforts).
Also habituation and hedonistic adaptation. ie the more we pursue happiness, the less likely we are to be satisfied with the things that make us happy. Whereas if we accept the ups and downs of life, the more likely we are to appreciate the things that make us happy when they happen.
Why ‘Happiness’ is a useless word… and an alternative
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GocIobQ9MLs&pp=ygURSGFwcHkgc2Nob29sIGxpZmU%3D
I'm not buying any of this - its looking for happiness in inappropriate things thats the issue IMO
Jeepers - live miserably if you want but I am quite content with a life spent in the pursuit of happiness.
Happiness sought in service of others ( Its nice to be nice), in watching sunsets, in a well earned pint, in the new vistas found over the hill, a chat with a pal. I am sure happiness is not found in material possessions or hedonism but it taking joy in simple things, in helping others and in friendships
I think the word you're looking for is content.
Generally contentment brings happiness.
IMO
Happiness is more than contentment. Its contentment plus joy. We need those touches of joy whatever they are
Photos of baby seals - Brigitte Bardot! Pain - BDSM! Ancient Greeks - homosexuality! Da Vinci - Mona Lisa and war machines! Suffering physically - masochism! Goals - footy! Make a difference - Nelson Mandela!
Oh I love a motivational simplistic bollocks Youtube. 🙂 So we need to be fulfilled to be happy but that will make us unhappy, right? It was nice swimming in the local pool in the pool in the sun today, utterly futile but nice, then I had a siesta because the effort in coldish water knocked me out, and woke up happy, having achieved absoultely nothing and done nothing to make the world a better place.
All this motivational stuff completely misses the point, most people have too much on their plates without looking for more fulfillment. They'd just like a sunbed next to a nice sunny swimming pool next to their mate possibly with their kids splashing in the pool and an mtb to thrash along some trails if they can be arsed.
I don’t believe that modern society is geared up for an individuals happiness.
It’s geared up so that a few profit from the misery of the masses.
You’re sold the idea of happiness… Buy this, but that. Gratiate your “needs” now. Little view to the long term. People generally are ever more isolated with little time for others.
How many people do you know that are on pills so that they can function? Function in terms of fitting into society.
I would rather not be prescribed pills so that I fit into society. I would prefer a society that is geared up for the individual. I know this might sound ironic to some given the amount of drugs I willing take. I think for many, not being sober is a coping mechanism, myself included.
Interestingly, it’s been my experience that people that have less have been the most generous. The more wealth someone has, the less willing they are to help others.
I agree with this. The idea that we need money to be happy, is a myth perpetuated by those who seek to profit from the pursuit of gratification.
I think a lot of people try to find meaning through consumption and are encouraged to do so by capitalism. I think that many feel insecure and compensate through status symbols. I also think that many people are just basically unhappy.
So surely the aim would be to keep people a little bit unhappy, so they've still got something to need to buy? New iPhone, anyone?
I do not believe this is deliberate - there is no big conspiracy or puppetmaster. its just the way capitalism works. In general people are conditioned from an early date that happiness comes from having stuff. Buy a new car or phone and be like the smiling happy beautiful folk in the adverts. Feeling down - have this sugar and fat laden snack - it will make you feel better ( and it does) . Want to feel like a "success" buy these nice toys and trinkets etc etc
I have seen so many people in their middle years wake up and think "is this it?" I got the good job and worked hard to progress. I have the spouse and my kids in a nice semi in suburbia, I have my nice car on the drive, my big telly with all the frills etc etc. But I'm drowning in debt, a wage slave till I drop and I am not happy.
Capitalism has done some wonderful things and dragged us as a species out of the mire but now it creates conditions where a large part of the population is unhappy.
Our society should be built around happiness not consumption
Sitting next to my Dad in his final few hours in hospital, a few years ago, it was very obvious that regardless of life's trappings, you go out with what you came into this world: nothing.
I've been lucky to have the mindset throughout life that every day should be made the most of, however I'm in the age bracket where mates are starting to fall seriously ill etc.
The most important things we have as individuals are Health and Time. Money can assist in both, but when it comes at the expense of either, then its time to make a change.
I'm lucky to be well paid, but feel like my personal life is very subservient to my professional life at the moment. Part time will hopefully make a big change. Retirement needs to be factored in, but that may or may not ever happen....I might not live that long, so I'm not going to flog myself literally to death...
Cycling and my other hobbies are pricey, but sensible life choices allow them to happen. As much as I love a good holiday, regular events to look forward to are more important, even if it's an afternoon on a bike.
We all only have one shot at life. No boss is ever going to thank you on your deathbed for the extra shifts....
We all make our choices and you've got to do what make you (and loved ones) happiest.
"You can't change the past. You don't own the future. All you have is now." Mikertroid '99
I do not believe this is deliberate – there is no big conspiracy or puppetmaster. its just the way capitalism works.
Of course. But companies do have marketing strategies to ensure the perpetuation of consumption; Apple will announce a new gizmo, and there will be loads of marketing guff about how much faster and better it is than the previous model, with fancy graphics and even slick animations etc. But in reality, the differences will be barely noticeable at best. Very slight improvements if you're lucky. But that won't stop many people from immediately rushing to buy the latest model.
In general people are conditioned from an early date that happiness comes from having stuff
I think this is where things take a more philosophical turn. Small children will often become jealous and possessive over things, toys etc. I think this in inherent part of human nature; we need a certain amount to survive, so a shortage or absence of thing, real or perceived, is going to be of concern. Hence wars. We need to control our own immediate environment and ensure our own survival, even if that's at the expense of others. So if we have plenty, then surely we'd be more content? But it doesn't seem to work like that. How much is enough?
"nice semi in suburbia"
Pervert.
Very interesting thread. I often wonder how happy other people are behind closed doors. I think there are some very brave faces out there unfortunately.
Hmm, well operation 'step back' hit its first hurdle yesterday, seems very much as if my company would rather lose an employee than allow someone to step back into a role with less responsibility. I think this is partly an industry thing as they explained my stepping back would just mean more work for others or having to hire another employee to fill the role I've just stepped back from.
Given how busy we are I can only assume the fees are terrible and thus we can't afford another employee, or they just can't hire as there aren't enough suitable candidates on the market ☹️
I sometimes wonder though if there is societal aversion to someone in their forties wanting to step off the ladder and focus on quality of life again. Talk is always about 'progression' and never about just being happy in the role you're in. Our industry's solution to stress and workload is just 'get better at your job' rather than 'let's find a role you CAN excel at'.
I think I need to focus on operation 'Sideways Step' instead and just get the hell out of this industry 🙄
Many years ago hubby and I decided to go the 'less money, fewer working hours, be happier and have more time route'. It's been fine. We still have great holidays, many days out etc, but to do this we've led a slightly more frugal lifestyle than others. I can't stand telly programmes such as 'Apprentice' which seems to be driven by greed and unkindness.
Our lifestyle isn't for everyone but I've never missed having things that other people desire, eg a better phone, a bigger telly, new clothes all the time. But, It would be nice to have a little more money to cushion things such as healthcare (glasses, dental work etc) for the future. Health is everything and one can't buy that, but without a bit of money to buy good food, go out and socialise then life is going to be difficult.
I know many wealthy people through my job and they are no happier than me.
I do not believe this is deliberate
I think it is.
There is no reason for everyone to still be working 40+ hours per week. And yet anytime a four day work week (or any other form of increasing people's free time) comes up groups like The 'Taxpayer' Alliance materialize to lobby against it. Someone is funding these groups. They are not grass root organisations. So there is definitely a group of people within society who have a vested interest in maintaining a population that is time poor.
13thfloormonk
Full Member
Hmm, well operation ‘step back’ hit its first hurdle yesterday, seems very much as if my company would rather lose an employee than allow someone to step back into a role with less responsibility.
**** em, tell them from now on your doing the bare minimum
Many years ago hubby and I decided to go the ‘less money, fewer working hours, be happier and have more time route’. It’s been fine. We still have great holidays, many days out etc, but to do this we’ve led a slightly more frugal lifestyle than others. I can’t stand telly programmes such as ‘Apprentice’ which seems to be driven by greed and unkindness.
My wife and I made a similar decision about 10 years ago. Circumstances forced some significant changes, but these turned out to be the best move. I effectively 'retired', my wife went from 5 days a week to 4, then 3, and we aren't actually any 'poorer'. We were however extremely fortunate in both inheriting money, so this helps enormously. I struggle to see how us earning more would improve our quality of life; we'd both have to work more, and then have less free time. Swings and roundabouts. I now get to choose work, which is far more varied and interesting, and even fun. I spent Monday and Tuesday this week stripping out a friend's bathroom of mouldy sealant, and replacing it with fresh stuff. I now have the promise of future work re-dong said bathroom, and also the kitchen. I never intended to go into decorating, but it's actually quite rewarding. But I don't have to rely on it, that's the key. I have another project in mind that involves a lot of work and will not be financially rewarding at all, but it will be fun, and I totally appreciate the position of luxury and privilege I am in to be able to do so. This will involve enabling others, particularly younger people, to pursue creative avenues, so actually very close to realising my 'dream' in life really. I totally appreciate I would not be able to do this if I had to do a 9 to 5, Monday to Friday type job. Many people really need to take a step back and appreciate such privilege in life, if they have it. Not enough do.
I'm sure there was a Howies ad years ago, with the tag line something like
'Time not money'
There have been numerous studies on the increase in productivity and employee satisfaction and happiness from shorter working weeks and hybrid working. But the dictorial nature and establishment mentality of corporate power structures still drives the idea that employees should be unhappy drones.
The system is corrupted by those that have power in it, just by their narcissism of needing to exert power over their underlings, it isn't even good for the bottom line.
I'm sure I read somewhere that a study suggested that £50k was a bit of a threshold salary, whereby happiness/satisfaction increases up to that point then drops off slightly, or increases much more slowly or something. Seemed plausible to me, it's more than many will get obviously but likely to allow much of the freedom and flexibility many of us would like.
I dropped some hours two years ago allowing me to do a four-day week. It was a revelation, one of the best things I've done. Freed up time, mental capacity and energy. It's given me the chance to do things I wouldn't have done otherwise, namely volunteering, which is leading me towards the possibility of retraining and a career change.
I do think it's slightly impacted my long term financial situation but I'm also happy in principle to work for longer - if that means being paid to do something I like and have some control over rather than vice versa. But never more than four days a week!
if we’re happy, we generally know that a bit more money would make us more happy.
Personally, I'm more than happy with my current financial situation. I cannot envisage how having more money would make me any happier. But we all have different needs; cultural, social, economic. I can buy whatever I want; I just don't want very much really. Spending money doesn't bring me any more happiness. I worked that out some time ago, took stock of what I had, how lucky I was, and how I needed to fully appreciate all that. The things that make me happiest are spending time with my partner and others, sharing experiences and having fun. We socialise a lot, but we aren't going to the Ritz; a cheap meal or drink with people we love is far more rewarding and joyful than expensive things. My wife went out with two friends last night to a 'posh' restaurant; she really enjoyed it, said the food was great, but although we could 'afford' to go to such places regularly, we feel it's nicer to have occasional 'treats'; anticipation makes the experience that bit more special. I completely appreciate that we are lucky enough to still have significant enough income to be able to make such choices. But our bar is somewhat lower than others, perhaps. For me, coming from the experience of poverty, how I live now is utter luxury by comparison. So this is it. I'm content. I don't need more.
Definitely with @brownperson. We worked very hard early in our careers and realised several years ago we really didn’t need or want to pursue more money. I enjoy reading a book at a local coffee shop more than the £40k holiday, the latter I find more punishment than pleasure. I’m now 51 and my wife is 47, we both work 25 hours a week; I don’t have plans to stop a job I love and has total flexibility, my wife does intend to retire in the not too distant future and she will just continue with charity work. We have mortgages paid off, no debt and have put enough away for our daughter’s future too. That’s not really because of really high salaries or even purposeful saving, we’ve just never felt the need to spend much money. Bizarrely at our grand age, we’ve never bought a sofa, which makes me laugh 🙂 We certainly don’t get paid badly but keeping our lives simple has made us happier and we seem to be in a pretty good place financially and better than many people we know who earn many multiples of our salaries. Take pleasure in whatever you are doing and simple is often brilliant. I have adopted that to my riding too, I definitely take more pleasure nowadays in just riding. Wherever. Definitely feel very grateful to be in the position we are in, life can be hard for so many reasons.
I've only bought one sofa at 53 perhaps that's how to achieve true zen.
if we’re happy, we generally know that a bit more money would make us more happy.
Only up to a point, past that point I don't think money makes any difference.
Yes I could buy more crap, or go on holiday somewhere more expensive, but it wouldn't make me any happier.
NB I work a 4 day week through choice, as I'd rather have more time to do other things...
Bizarrely at our grand age, we’ve never bought a sofa, which makes me laugh
I have never bought any furniture new - nor crockery and cutlery. All secondhand and mainly bought with houses. Ive never owned a car. Most of my electronics are secondhand
I'm 63