Forum menu
if we’re happy, we generally know that a bit more money would make us more happy.
That is completely dependent on whether what makes you happy requires money and whether you already have enough money to do all the things that make you happy.
I don't think more money would make me happier. For example, I love cycling and could buy very expensive bikes but I don't, I have only one bike and it would cost around £1200 to build up.
Some interesting takes on life in here. I'm going to try to be less consumeristic and buy better and 2nd hand where possible (I do this already but should do more). Also going to try and declutter my and our life by some margin. The amount of stuff I/we own is incredible and I'm not sure that it's good for my mental health at all.
As isn't the 40hr "work" week, I do despise having to come into the office 8.5 hours a day whether I have anything to do or not. If I was a boss it would be a work when needed regime and if you've done your bit go home. If "cover" is needed, work it out between yourselves so that someone can do that but make it fair and keep everyone happy.
The utopian dream of all this tech was supposed to give us so much more free time but all it's done is allow businesses to employ less people and pay bigger fat cat bonusses.
The utopian dream of all this tech was supposed to give us so much more free time but all it’s done is allow businesses to employ less people and pay bigger fat cat bonusses.
The free time has been taken up by "bullshit" jobs to keep everyone in work.
The comment I made about having a bit more money was purely to cushion the future, or something for a rainy day.
Our house needed some maintenence work in 2022 and 2023. Luckily we had some savings , but it would be nice to have some extra for health care and other 'rainy days',in the future.
I also think living a more frugal lifestyle helps one to appdeciate the little treats in life, such as a meal out with friends, a new saddle, etc. I treated myself to a plum tree last week, planting it brought lots if joy.
Reality is most folk want more money @bunnyhop, on here there is a bit of a middle class ideology, a lot of the population live in normal jobs where they won't get offers of cutting days, and can't anyway as they have families and increasing costs, they could cut back, but the minute a crisis hits they're stressed again, the boiler goes bang, where can i find 3k, etc, etc.
For me happiness is just a state of mind, it's something you have now and again, it's not a permanent setting, you get more quality in life and more happiness through working out what balance works for your life and lifestyle, utopian dreams of part time hours, no money worries and early retirement are for the lucky few, more than the masses.
Why does some of this thread make me think of Pulp and Jarvis Cocker singing about she came from Greece she had a thirst for knowledge
She studied sculpture at St Martins college
I knew someone who was actually studying sculpture at St Martins College, when that song came out (I loved Pulp btw). He wasn't Greek though.
I treated myself to a plum tree last week, planting it brought lots if joy.
Beautiful.
Reality is most folk want more money @bunnyhop, on here there is a bit of a middle class ideology, a lot of the population live in normal jobs where they won’t get offers of cutting days, and can’t anyway as they have families and increasing costs, they could cut back, but the minute a crisis hits they’re stressed again, the boiler goes bang, where can i find 3k, etc, etc.
But many people choose to live right up to the very margins. My aforementioned soft-bed-linen-loving neighbours could choose to save instead of spend, then they'd be able to absorb the occasional cost like a new roof. But they make their own choices based on their own priorities. My philosophy is to always have a little extra in case of a rainy day. Because at some point, it will pour. This is life.
Having extra is great, but for the masses earning the average salary, with a kid or two, trying to buy a house or save for a deposit and so on, i doubt they'll have 3k readily available to pay for a roof to be fixed, or a boiler, or a second hand car after their car fails it's MOT and so on.
Having a rainy day fund is great, but in this day and age it's raining every day, literally and figuratively.
From what I know of the evidence, it’s that up to a certain point a lack of money makes people unhappy, because they can’t afford the necessities. Past that point, if you’re happy, then more money generally makes you happier, however if you are not happy then it doesn’t.
So it’s not worth working to the point of making yourself unhappy in the belief that more money will make it worthwhile.
The last few posts are very much er… on the money (sorry). I was chewing the fat with an ex colleague last night - we both worked as senior sales in a prior company, both now in our early 50’s both took the chance to move from highly paid roles as expectation turned to shit, and now both not enjoying work.
The summary was as above - we both earn and can continue to earn - decent money to live decent lifestyles for our families with little significant worry. Both of us would like to find a role that makes us smile when getting up for work in the morning, but both of us agreed that the pursuit of more senior roles, more money, better job titles is likely not worth the stress, risk and unhappiness at the age we are.
Before I first started sales I was given this advice “remember that as long as you can shut off from work and enjoy a beer and a pizza on a Saturday night, everything is fine”
It probably sums up the above - reaching an amount of earnings and satisfaction in life whereby the pursuit of “happiness” via money would only be contrary to that level of satisfaction.
Oh how we learn the hard way though eh?
Before I first started sales I was given this advice “remember that as long as you can shut off from work and enjoy a beer and a pizza on a Saturday night, everything is fine”
Aha, well that's where it gets interesting. Personally I've allowed my ambitions in life to creep beyond a beer and pizza on a Saturday night, and perhaps that's where we go wrong, i.e. losing perspective and thinking that society owes us the time and wellbeing to be out riding bikes and climbing mountains all the time.
Out for a walk this morning before trying to get some work done over the rest of the weekend, hobbling because I've obviously aggravated my S.I. joint (doing exercises for my piriformis probably!) so not in the best mood. Had some tunes in, beautiful morning, just plodding along the same old walk which typically isn't something that motivates me, I'd usually either want to be running/riding or at the very least going somewhere new.
AAAAANYWAY the walk was actually pretty nice in the end and I even stopped for five minutes to watch a family of Bullfinches which lightened the mood. It was a good lesson in enjoying simple things.
Problem is, I aspire to so much more. I still want to be fit and strong enough for the 300km Audaxes, the 150km gravel rides, I have a guidebook I want to write, I want to be Youtubing awesome new gravel routes that I've been planning on Strava. This morning made me realise maybe I just need to accept that's not my lot in life, and I should be satisfied with plodding around the local dog walking loop, and yeah, maybe enjoying a beer and a pizza tonight.
It's funny how innocently you can end up with unrealistic ambitions, maybe I've just lost perspective in thinking that I SHOULD be able to do all that awesome stuff whilst supporting a family etc. and I don't have any right to expect to be pain free, fit and strong in my forties. I suspect older generations suffered much worse in terms of wellbeing and fitness, but their expectations weren't as high.
Perhaps it's time to log off Strava and the Facebook gravel groups (and here, dare I say it!) and lessen the F.O.M.O!
Edit: minor epiphany there, if I have to accept I'm not going to be the world's greatest gravel cyclist, I guess it would be fair of society to not also expect me to be world's greatest employee! 😂
"I even stopped for five minutes to watch a family of Bullfinches which lightened the mood. It was a good lesson in enjoying simple things"
Take the lesson. Embrace wandering around the countryside by bicycle
Money absolutely cannot buy happiness. However...
'We were however extremely fortunate in both inheriting money, so this helps enormously. I struggle to see how us earning more would improve our quality of life; we’d both have to work more, and then have less free time.'
That is a very privileged position to be in, but does mean an appreciation of other situations might be difficult. Because, I can assure you , a lack of money can make you very unhappy, very quickly
Hell, money can definitely buy things that make you happy, this time of year, folk with houses in warmer climates are away for 2 weeks to recharge their batteries and do what they enjoy, the rest of us are sat looking at record breaking poor weather limiting activities and any sunshine.
Stress for those who can't afford that car fix until later in the year, so face the bus and an extra hour or two a day travelling would be much happier with a little more money to get that car fixed now.
Having days out and about with the family are good ways to make memories and be happy, but they cost fortunes these days, same with mod cons and so on.
Health is a huge point as well, 3-5 years on NHS lists, or a trip to London for the week in a couple of months timescale, i know who's going to be happier about having constant pain or immobility reduced for that type of period!
As always, the old saying money can't buy happiness was brought up in a time when the rich didn't want the poor to want more.
We were however extremely fortunate in both inheriting money, so this helps enormously. I struggle to see how us earning more would improve our quality of life;
ah, now it makes more sense. 😉
ah, now it makes more sense. 😉
Family i know in their late 20s inherited 50k last year, it was spent in a matter of months.
The other quote I like is
“you need the wealth to afford your principles”
I treated myself to a plum tree last week, planting it brought lots if joy.
Of all the things I've bought, I reckon trees and plants are the best value for money. A few £ for a shrub, a few £10 for a tree and once planted, year after year you get to appreciate it's foliage in the garden etc.
Family i know in their late 20s inherited 50k last year, it was spent in a matter of months.
To be fair a young family, in the SE, could probably spend a few £100k in a day just paying bits of mortgages / student loans etc and still have 'nothing' to show for it at the end (other than less debt).
"Family i know in their late 20s inherited 50k last year, it was spent in a matter of months."
"To be fair a young family, in the SE, could probably spend a few £100k in a day just paying bits of mortgages / student loans etc and still have ‘nothing’ to show for it at the end (other than less debt)."
Or equally, a fancy car and a few nice holidays, and boom, it's gone!
Family i know in their late 20s inherited 50k last year, it was spent in a matter of months
What was the thread count of their bed sheets?
Not sure, but they were in disneyland within 6 weeks of it arriving in their bank 😂
Oh hell yeah, Dolce and Gabbanna as well!
ah, now it makes more sense.
As I've mentioned, I grew up in poverty. But in an intensely frugal house, so got used to 'budgeting' from a very early age. Also got used to the idea of not having stuff, so actually, continuing that philosophy isn't that hard now that I'm in a far more comfortable situation. My mum was constantly reminding me that other people are far less well off, and that kind of stuck. Seeing real poverty in Bangladesh as a kid, really stuck with me. As a result, just don't 'want' stuff as much as other people do, perhaps. A blessing. We have no significant debt however, so are extremely lucky in this regard. Again, I accept it's a very privileged situation to be in,I make no pretence of this.
Not sure, but they were in disneyland within 6 weeks of it arriving in their bank
A friend's daughter went to Euro Disneyland recently; £3k+ for 3 days for 2 adults and 2 kids. For the same amount they could have had multiple holidays I'm sure, or a really nice one for 2 weeks or so. They are now pleading poverty and trying to tap up my friend for money to pay their bills. As someone who also grew up in poverty, he wasn't shy about telling them exactly what he thought of their profligacy. I think the easy credit, 'enjoy now pay later' philosophy that so many people seem to have chosen, means that many simply do not have the ability to see ahead more than a very short period. Either that or they've given up teaching basic maths in schools. His daughter's response was 'well we deserve a holiday!' Deserve. And there we are again with that sense of entitlement. How do we engender society away from such thinking?
Not sure, but they were in disneyland within 6 weeks of it arriving in their bank 😂
Madness.
Even allowing for chucking a load at a mortgage or some immediate necessary expenditure or something, that would be the the golden opportunity to put some away in a JISA or similar and give the kids a little booster later in life.
A friend’s daughter went to Euro Disneyland recently; £3k+ for 3 days for 2 adults and 2 kids. For the same amount they could have had multiple holidays I’m sure, or a really nice one for 2 weeks or so.
they could certainly have had a longer holiday, but £3k does not buy you a "really nice" holiday for 4 people for 2 weeks during the school holidays. The absolutely cheapest 2 week holiday with dinner included on the thomas cook website for 4 people, for 2 weeks during august is currently £3200, and I would imagine, given that its a 3* hotel in spain rated on tripadvisor as 3/5, its not something you'd count as "really nice"
Even allowing for chucking a load at a mortgage or some immediate necessary expenditure or something, that would be the the golden opportunity to put some away in a JISA or similar and give the kids a little booster later in life.
Yeah, flip side though is that the family had a holiday of a lifetime whilst the kids were young and no worries about paying for it, can see both sides of it, i've not had a foreign holiday since i was 12, so it's madness to me though 😂
Is a Disney holiday the new smashed avacado on toast?
they could certainly have had a longer holiday, but £3k does not buy you a “really nice” holiday for 4 people for 2 weeks during the school holidays.
I'm sure it does if you shop around. We know plenty of families who seem to achieve this, and for even less. Air BnB, self catering and you could have quite a bit left over. And I'm sure you could spend a lot more than £3k for 3 days if you really wanted. But the point was they effectively spent money they couldn't afford, and are now scratching around to pay their own bills. The choices they made are now impacting on their daily lives, and they don't seem to understand that they are solely responsible for the position they are now in.
Depends on what a "really nice holiday" is to you. A colleague at work said a holiday for him was an opportunity to upgrade his lifestyle. For me it's about doing things most of which cost very little once you have travelled.
And there we are again with that sense of entitlement.
Indeed.
It depends what you want from a holiday. Certainly you can have a holiday in Europe for a family of 4-5 for less than 3k.
Basic cottage on the edge of the alps ~1k for 2 weeks
Petrol + tolls + channel ~1k
Food 3-400.
Take bikes etc on the car, a bit of walking, cycling, sitting by lakes, eating too much cheese. Sure it's not for everyone but Disneyland is my idea of hell.
Most people's holidays are my idea of hell but then I'm sure my holidays are most people's idea of hell. However holidays are included in most everybody's idea of a high quality of life.
People expect great things of their holidays as I'm sure anyone else who's worked in the holiday business will confirm. But most people's holidays take them far enough out of their comfort zone to raise stress levels and they'll either work hard painting over the imperfections such as malaria, disentry, roaches,swimming in sewage, sunburn, noisy drunks, German towels, rip-off attractions, jet lag, road rage, cancelled trains, non-stop rain, queues(and up-gradeing scumbags), sleeplessness, lack of sex, hangovers, bike/ski/car crashes, foreign hospitals... and convince themselves the week in hell wad great, or spend their time moaning and making life hell for everyone they encounter because things aren't as perfect as they imagined they'd be.
But one just has to have something to tell neighbours, workmates, clubmates, Facebook, Insta', the hairdresser. It's a comparison thing that is part of the feel good that makes up quality of life as perceived in our modern world.
After experiences working in tourism I figured living somewhere nice all the time beats even the most exotic holiday. I go on holiday expecting it be hassle and suffering with a few moments of satisfaction, and being very pleased to get home in one piece hopefully finding the doors and windows intact and taking precautions to kill unwanted passengers in my bag that might contaminate the house.
I dunno, me and the Mrs prefer a holiday where someone else cooks our food, pours our drinks and cleans our apartment whilst we can laze by the pool between trips and are happy to pay for the priveledge whilst we can afford it, but don’t expect to be entitled to it forever. I’ve yet to experience any of the issues Edukator lists.
Well apart from the hangover.
You just need a well researched and/or recommended destination that meets your criteria. YMMV.
All of those are real experiences from friends, relatives, workmates, customers, club mates... . I missed out fell off a mountain and died, had a heart attack on the flight to a Majorca training camp, broke several vertebre hang gliding, robbed twice on the same weekend in Barcelona, broken ribs falling over in a bus, arrested and held in Spain for carrying a pocket knike, permantly broken ankle cycle touring. I will admit my friends and aquaitances are more adventurous and less risk averse than most but given that holidays represent less than 10% of most people's time the propensity to **** up is clearly much higher on holiday. There again you could go on a world cruise, the couple doing that are currently at zero mishaps.
A holiday is ultimately a luxury, so nobody is entitled to one. A 'holiday' for me as a kid might have been visiting relatives in Birmingham for a couple of days. I did get to go to Bangladesh when I was about ten though, and that was probably more meaningful to me than any other holiday I've had since. I doubt Edukator would have liked it; the cockroaches were as big as Matchbox cars. And they flew.
I find cockroaches pretty harmless but don't like the smell so have traps because whilst not of the flying matchbox variety they're common around here.
Bed bugs on the other hand I detest so bought a freezer I plug in after holidays to decontaminate everything.
Birmingham for a holiday. For someone born in the old red brick QE that brings a smile. 🙂
A luxury or a necessity? Each year we are reminded that about 3 million French kids don't get to go on holiday and that quite apart from missing out on the fun not having a holiday is stigmatising and a social/educational handicap.
The pressure to take their kids on holiday inevitably impacts other aspects of the quality of life equation also known as kippers 'n' curtins where I was dragged up. 😋
It depends what you want from a holiday. Certainly you can have a holiday in Europe for a family of 4-5 for less than 3k.Basic cottage on the edge of the alps ~1k for 2 weeks
Petrol + tolls + channel ~1k
Food 3-400.Take bikes etc on the car, a bit of walking, cycling, sitting by lakes, eating too much cheese. Sure it’s not for everyone but Disneyland is my idea of hell.
you definitely can, but most people wouldn't call the cheapest cottage thats a drive from somewhere decent and <£2/meal/person on food "nice". I've done a lot of trips like that, and had a grand old time, I was simply pointing out that holidays are expensive, and whilst £3k for a long weekend for a family seems excessive, its not the once-in-a-lifetime trip budget that some were suggesting
There’s a lot going on in this thread 😂
That family that came into £50k and spent some of it going to Disneyland. That seems…ok? As someone with a young family, I’d probably stick say 50% into a high interest savings account or pension, bump up my rainy day fund, 30% on home improvements and then ideally I’d have 10% to spend on something fun for the family.
In fact, having a family does change the way you think about money once you start to earn more than you need to survive, and that understanding seems missing from some of the more frugal mindsets above.
In my mind, as much as I need to think about the future and plan ahead, having a daughter that is rapidly growing up means we have a window of 5-7 years where she is robust and interesting enough to take abroad, and also young enough to want to hang out with us and have fun (If you have >1 kid I assume that window of opportunity is even smaller). For us, we’re choosing to spend more on fun holidays now, which perhaps could go into retirement, or fixing up my car or buying new windows for the house. And by heck my frugal past self who could go back packing for £5 a day would be baffled by some of the holidays we have. We don’t travel in summer hols because it’s too expensive and hot, but try pricing up a cheap skiing holiday in feb half term, and a cheap but nice trip somewhere European and warm in October half term and have change from £5k.
And yes, that is a luxury and a privilege but that is kind of supposed to be the point in having a career. I could choose to save it all but I cant spend it when I’m dead. I could cut down on my hours but I’d still be working, just less able to travel. I could travel less but showing my daughter the world is one of the most important of the least important things we do.
As you lot are smothered in smugness and satisfaction can I have your money, please?
Srzly tho we’re in a right two and eight at the minute as despite earning comfortably in to six figure between us we’ve sunk everything in to a business converting part of the house into an annexe/holiday letthat will eventually negate the need for either of us to work full time and will pay our mortgage, meaning we’ll have a substantial retirement pot when we downsize. Sounds great huh? HOWEVER it’s proven much more expensive and taken way longer than we planned and so we’re currently scraping by pay packet to pay packet, We’re ’ALMOST there but can tell you it’s been bastard hard and the kids have done without holidays etc (blagged a few freebies and four nights in a static caravan but nothing remotely fancy). I grew up skint, was skint as a student and most of my adult life too but watch the kids go without despite earning well and watching that money fly out of the door every month and having to watch the pennies in Aldi is tiring. Err what’s my point? You need money, not loads but enough and not having quite enough makes life really shit really quick
i know, worlds smallest violin etc