MegaSack DRAW - This year's winner is user - rgwb
We will be in touch
So yes I know a Merc E class isn’t a cheap car to start with but almost all modern cars now have very similar driver aids
All the safety and drivers aids (ADAS) have stopped working on my 2019 E class. This now means the Active Brake Assist (collision prevention with pedestrian/cyclist detection) and optional packages including Active Distance Assist Distronic (adaptive cruise control with steering assist), Active Steering Assist, Active Lane Change Assist, and Blind Spot Assist have all stopped working.
I can still drive the car fine but none of the handy stuff works, and it’s not clear if it would be an MOT failure or not.
My local garage ran the fault codes and it looks like it could be one camera. They said they couldn’t look at it and recommend 2 other places. All places said this tech is specialised to the manufacture.
So now booked into Merc. £300 just to look at it without and repair costs, that diagnostic cost may rise further too if it takes more than 1.5hrs to identify the fault ☹️
Cars now need electrical engineers, not mechanics to keep them going!
It going to be an interesting one too to see what happens in the future with these fancy systems and who can repair them, and whether they are classed as MOT failure
2017 Volvo. Not so modern. New steering rack needed, can't get secondhand or reconditioned as they need programming to the car, and they can only be programmed once, apparently to deter vehicle theft where the car is stripped to parts for resale. And we couldn't find an independent with either a working Volvo diagnostic system, or a better price than main dealer. (Edit, same rack/system on Ford Focus)
RE your car, I wonder if Google/forums will advise if one duff camera switches off the whole system, as blind spot detection wouldn't use the same camera/sensor as adaptive cruise control. Could offer an insight into whether it's a central issue rather than a camera that's off or been knocked out of alignment.
I feel like this is nothing new and it's the reason I've always avoided flashy German motors.
One reason I bought a 2018 motorbike with no abs, no riding modes & very little else in terms of fancy electronics, still doesn't stop the speedo sensor failing which knocks out the gear indicator & chucks out an engine warning light 😕
My son's BMW was throwing up all sorts of electrical errors that a couple of garages failed to fix until they found out a previous garage had trapped a cable under the rocker cover at some point - fat chance of getting any money from them.
2020 Audi, windscreen replacement was (covered via insurance) about £1000, and had to be done at a special place, due to the camera/sensors mounted to it. And had to wait 2 weeks for the appointment
I've just ruled out a C300 coupe as a potential next car after reading and watching a good few reviews pointing out the various problems they'd had (mostly electrical), ranging from the issues described above to panoramic roofs and boot lids refusing to close etc. I've never owned a Mercedes but I did know it was going to get expensive if it involved a main dealer at any point in future. I've been told by a mate who's currently trying to sell an e class coupe there are 14 electric motors to operate the air vents inside the car, it can be upwards of £450 to have one replaced when out of warranty,
2019 vauxhaul combo.
Had to replace the right wing mirror 38quid and half an hour faffing.
The Mégane hybrid automatic wingmirror things fill me with dread when that inevitably gets ****ted off.
What’s the character limit on this forum? I’m not sure it’s enough to tell you about my stupid Alfa Romeo Stelvio… and it would reduce me to tears anyway.
I’ve given up on it and bought an Isuzu. It’s less refined, but it’s great to be able to lift the bonnet and see and access everything.
V90 offside headlight unit = £2500. Yes, that's right. And I paid it <sigh>
It's no wonder even the smallest of car on car abrasion results in insurance right offs, what a waste of resources 🙄
2020 Audi, windscreen replacement was (covered via insurance) about £1000, and had to be done at a special place, due to the camera/sensors mounted to it. And had to wait 2 weeks for the appointment
2019 vauxhaul combo.
Had to replace the right wing mirror 38quid and half an hour faffing.
The Mégane hybrid automatic wingmirror things fill me with dread when that inevitably gets ****ted off.
I think a big issue is integrating the technological do-dats into other elements of the car - given that a windscreen is/ should be a relatively cheap consumable why are important technical bits of other systems integrated into it? Why are they not independent of that element (and each other)
With my van (boxer) with seemingly uncomplicated mirrors - people get into all sort of problems with emissions systems falling over and the inevitable garage cheque-book-diagnostics - not realising that its because they've replaced a cracked wingmirror housing and that a critical sensor for the emission system were integrated into that mirror assembly.
Merc recognises this and is making newer models more repairable with screwed rather than glued headlamp units, etc. https://www.autoblog.com/news/mercedes-benz-is-redesigning-cars-to-be-easier-to-repair
BMW has patented yet another screw head standard that needs a specific tool. I checked, none of this is from April https://www.autoblog.com/news/bmws-screw-that-no-one-else-can-turn
The issue is no manufacturer cares when it’s out of warranty.
If you’ll pay £2.5k for a headlamp then headlamps are going to cost that but what will happen is more owners will be getting up in the morning and see that the tinsnips have been used on their cars and they have no headlamps.
There is a thing in Mercedes at the moment that things should be more repairable
I think they’ve hit the point where they’ve prioritised construction efficiency over long term maintainability.
Merc recognises this and is making newer models more repairable with screwed rather than glued headlamp units, etc.
What in the seven ****s were they gluing headlamp units in at all...
That's [insert bannable word]
*makes yet another mental note to buy the most easily repairable, decently reliable, poverty spec option next time round. Although my car should have at least 5 more years yet anyway.
BMW are the worse for bolts and screws. My son has sets of specific sockets just to work on his 57 plate 3 series.
The issue is no manufacturer cares when it’s out of warranty.
If you’ll pay £2.5k for a headlamp then headlamps are going to cost that but what will happen is more owners will be getting up in the morning and see that the tinsnips have been used on their cars and they have no headlamps.
There is a thing in Mercedes at the moment that things should be more repairable
I think they’ve hit the point where they’ve prioritised construction efficiency over long term maintainability.
The problem is, with DRL's etc, if they don't work at MOT, the car fails. So fix the fault at the ridiculous cost or sell the car less the cost of repair - it's the same thing but you end up without a car which isn’t ideal... I looked at s/h off eBay and the like but it's a minefield. The headlight needed coding to the car and fitting the unit is a bumper off job. So, take a chance, roll the dice and gamble on s/h or get it fixed. I chose to get it fixed.
The dealer told me it could be worse. A recent Polestar model had units that were £4k and on 12 months backorder... Niiiice...🙄
I've just ruled out a C300 coupe as a potential next car after reading and watching a good few reviews pointing out the various problems they'd had (mostly electrical), ranging from the issues described above to panoramic roofs and boot lids refusing to close etc. I've never owned a Mercedes but I did know it was going to get expensive if it involved a main dealer at any point in future. I've been told by a mate who's currently trying to sell an e class coupe there are 14 electric motors to operate the air vents inside the car, it can be upwards of £450 to have one replaced when out of warranty,
This has always been a thing thou, the labour cost to remove a dash to get to a reasonably cheap part ends up expensive when your paying someone £100-150 hr to unscrew it.
No-one wants to remove a dash either as it’s a PITA 🙂
2019 vauxhaul combo.
Had to replace the right wing mirror 38quid and half an hour faffing.
2020 Berlingo, leaking EGR Cooler. £1200 to sort. It’s now just thrown another fault, worst (but quite likely) case being an expensive Adblue tank fix
This isn't just cars is it? It's pretty much everything. Things are much more reliable nowadays, but cost loads to repair when they do go wrong.
I've had dozens of Vespas over the decades. Anything pre-1990ish was always breaking down, but is easy to take apart and fix (often with bits of stuff from the kitchen drawer or a toy box). Modern Vespas are way more reliable, but almost anything that does go wrong has to be taken to a mechanic.
When I was kid I was always helping my dad fix things - TVs, cookers, telephones - just about anything in the house. Now when I look at stuff like that I have no idea, cannot get the parts, don't have the necessary tools ...but as I said, they go wrong much less.
The only thing I dislike, as mentioned above, is that it is often cheaper to replace rather than repair. I'm sure we all have stories about almost new stuff being thrown away instead of repaired.
That egr cooler is a good example.
They made it of plastic. It's a 5 hour labour job to replace.
They released an upgraded version not made of plastic to avoid the failure. It should be a warranty job but that's not going to happen as they won't eat the labour
Meanwhile I have to spend 299 quid each time for dealer servicing to retain battery warranty on my new car. I'm curious what they are doing for 299 quid because it includes zero work. There's no flushing coolant no changing oil etc. Etc . All that costs extra
The problem is, with DRL's etc, if they don't work at MOT, the car fails. So fix the fault at the ridiculous cost or sell the car less the cost of repair
Oh shit! - so not a case of the unit being smashed or something (An old friend of mine had to write off a Volvo years ago becuase the headlamp unit was broken in a minor shunt) - but a £2.5k bill just a blown bulb?
Its funny not that long ago I remember export models of European cars to the US always looked weird -I presumed it was becuase they got a little bit of a re-style to suit American tastes, but it was because the US wouldn't allow proprietary headlamp assemblies on cars - instead manufacturers had the choice of just four kinds of generic sealed beam lamp across the whole industry - two size of round, two sizes of rectangular
If my pal's write-off Volvo has been the contemporary US spec version of her car the replacement lamp would have been £13
I have had a £3k bill for a new DPF on my 2020 BMW 530D. Managed to fix the air suspension for £18 and avoided a huge bill for a new compressor unit. Thought I might replace it with something simpler like a basic petrol Passat estate until a mate's lunched it's engine with a broken cambelt. The only useful thing I can add is that YouTube videos have saved me a lot in showing me how to fix some failures
It’s now just thrown another fault, worst (but quite likely) case being an expensive Adblue tank fix
My boss had similar on a VAG group car and was able to just get adblue coded out.
Some of these issues were why I went for a van (although people carrier). Even the posh Xenon headlamps arent expensive.
My boss had similar on a VAG group car and was able to just get adblue coded out.
That’s the medium term plan, but… I need a recall carried out first. That recall has a S/W update that wipes out maps such as adblue deletes, so I can’t actually do anything until I’ve been in for the recall at the end of January. Car is currently telling me I have 500miles until it refuses to start - I do 1,000 miles a month and garages aren’t plentiful in the festive period. *****ing modern shite.
I also have a mate that works for Audi. Absolute horror stories regarding lighting systems. Eg more than a days labour to get a new rear cluster sorted and talking properly to the rest of the car. OTT unnecessary over-speccing of simple equipment
A while back I worked for a local butcher, old money and plenty of it etc . The bosses brother had retired but lived next door. One day I was asked to give him a lift back from the garage as he was having his Mercedes serviced . So I followed him looking for a main dealer but he turned into a trading estate and stopped at a burger van . Got out had a chat with the owner and handed over his keys . When he got in my van I said what's that all about? He said I'm not paying main dealer prices I found this bloke who'll service the car for a fraction of the cost just leave the keys at the burger van and he'd collect the car later !
What could possibly go wrong ? 🤔🙄
He did get his car back to my surprise but whether it was done to Mercedes spec who knows ?
As @easily says it's not just cars though is it ? My 4 year old Motorola phone the battery was playing up . When I looked it up turns out not only is the case glued together the more recent phones the battery is glued in as well 🙄
We don't all want the latest and greatest , why is it not possible that a £150 phone can't have a replacement battery for say £20 that is easily replaceable instead of having to buy another one 🙄
Spot on, I was going to replace my 10 years old Aygo but chatted it through with mechanic who looks after it. He said stick with it.
Amazingly they are going for what we paid 10 years ago. Brilliant first car, cheap ins, no tax, nothing gone wrong.
We had similar symptoms to the OP with our 2017 SLC. Adaptive cruise, blind spot warnings etc etc stopped working. You tube told me that it is probably the small scondary battery not supplying enough voltage. New battery and all was working again.
Having said that our 2008 Honda Accord estate petrol auto keeps just on going. We had to replace headlamp bulb this year. Never had any problems with it in 17yrs of ownership.
2014 335d
Dpf filter went -£3000 bill. Paid by me 😱 then got a recall letter for the dpf filter from BMW and I got most of the money back.
£500+ labour for right front damper this summer, £800 including labour for left front damper this week.
I'm regretting getting a car with fancy dampers now it's up to 160,000 miles.
Out other car is a Dacia jogger. Hopefully less expensive parts, but not as nice to drive
The problem is, with DRL's etc, if they don't work at MOT, the car fails. So fix the fault at the ridiculous cost or sell the car less the cost of repair
Oh shit! - so not a case of the unit being smashed or something (An old friend of mine had to write off a Volvo years ago becuase the headlamp unit was broken in a minor shunt) - but a £2.5k bill just a blown bulb?
They're sealed LED units that see round corners and auto dip, integrated indicators etc - so (presumably) more complex than an H5 from Halfords...
The whole thing stopped working all by itself. 😬
If anyone is looking for BMW servicing in Sussex, I used to use Munich Legends up on the Ashdown forest. They service the BMW heritage fleet so have full access to BMW service systems. They serviced my 520d, warranty was maintained. Half the price of BMW main dealer.
It's not just modern cars. Everything is more expensive to fix as cost of Labour has gone up so parts are more expensive as they cost more to manufacture and it costs more in labour to get them fitted. Doesn't matter if it's an old car, a new car or a leaky toilet - everything is significantly more expensive than it was 5 years ago.
I've an ADAS system on the Fabia. It's NOT connected to cruise or brakes. It only ever lights up the dashboard when it panics about something (it's never given me a "real" warning), and tells me I'm too close to a car ahead.
Of course the sensor is fitted at the lowest point of the bumper, right next to the road spray, grit and dirt. Of course it's mounted on a thin sheet metal bracket with a couple of proprietary plastic adjusters which along with the bracket fail when left out in sunlight, grit, water etc. It's wobbling beautifully at present.
And mine has failed in November. Thankfully local garage can do ADAS but I'm warned that cost is £180-600, plus parts, and no they can't say how much until it's in and being taken apart....and no I can't change the bracket and sensor myself because coding and alignment...
It's not just modern cars. Everything is more expensive to fix as cost of Labour has gone up so parts are more expensive as they cost more to manufacture and it costs more in labour to get them fitted. Doesn't matter if it's an old car, a new car or a leaky toilet - everything is significantly more expensive than it was 5 years ago.
Indeed. My last Fabia 1.0tsi service was £320...at an independent.
New alternator and battery on the T5? Yes we can do that, but it's a bumper off job and £1100...
Have a guess what I've paid for this year...
Our 21 year old Fiesta had another issue the other day.
Cost me £7.90 to fix, and that included having to buy a set of two of the parts required and a selection box of 100 E-clips 😂
They're sealed LED units that see round corners and auto dip, integrated indicators etc - so (presumably) more complex than an H5 from Halfords...
The whole thing stopped working all by itself.
Mercedes have actually started making their headlights dissasembleable (is that a word?) the wording said they would be going back to using screws to hold them together, it didn't actually say they would be serviceable or that spare parts would be available but it's a step in the right direction.
Find a specialist garage? I have a Mercedes C Class and found a local model specific indy that did my suspension work, another electrical specialist had the Mercedes dealer diagnostics unit did some replacement sensor coding etc both inexpensive but took some calling around. There's places I can recommend in Skipton and Bradford.
Essentially this is a narrow scope version of the enshitification thread isn't it?
I suspect the actual failure rate of these big parts at sub 10 years is probably relatively low vs. the population of vehicles on the road but that's no comfort if you're the one with the £3000 broken tail light or whatever.
I was mulling over the wider obsolete/fragile tech in cars thing this week and thinking I'm just going to lease cars in the future for as long as I can afford to when the current one expires.
Although from what I've read there'll be some brands with poor parts supply chain / long back orders who I'll be avoiding too, which is a shame because I really like the look of their EVs. 😞
@garage dweller
Interesting point. I'd like to think that sort of attitude (the builder of the 'most reliable' gets to benefit most by nature of their ability to offer the 'lowest servicing costs' - which would, logically, translate to lowest lease cost, and hence bigger market share), would win out... But.
[and i do massively admire your optimism ]
I would bet that 'they' would be far better at writing small print than 'we' would be at reading it.
See most PFI contracts for real life examples.
2018 V60. Tailgate struts failed - £1000. They've changed the design because the original one let in water and failed. Would they even make a contribution? Would they ****.
See my £500 Cayenne thread for how to run complex cars on a shoestring. In summary
1. Know your OEM's - eg the V60 tailgate struts are made by Stabilus and are £250 - £300. See also ATE for Volvo brakes, Elring, Corteco etc.
2. Buy from Autodoc - put items in your basket but only buy when the discount is +40%
3. Only buy cars that have cloned/grey market OBD diagnostics, I have Volvo VIDA/DICE and Vagcom/Foxwell for Porsche. I can DIY diagnose to dealership/factory levels.
4. Find the genuine specialists and not just the back street cowboys who clean the dirt off and give it a lick of shiny paint. Preston Power Steering rebuilt my Volvo steering rack and did a great job for far cheaper than the genuine Volvo dealership part (factory supplied Volvo racks are only refurbished and not fully new), I visited his workshop and had a brew whilst tickling his dog and talking steering racks. I found similar specialist places for engine block machining and automatic gearbox work.
5. Fix things yourself - unless you have a brand new 1st of the line model someone somewhere well have already had the same problems. Join the relevent FB group/forum and find the information.
Happy spannering!
2020 Audi, windscreen replacement was (covered via insurance) about £1000, and had to be done at a special place, due to the camera/sensors mounted to it. And had to wait 2 weeks for the appointment
Yeah, Autoglass at Cribbs Causeway, Bristol, is one. It used to be a nice little jolly taking cars over there, it was an hour drive each way from Westbury where I worked, then two, two and a half hours sitting in the Maccy D next door while they sorted out replacing the screen and recalibrating the sensor array that sits below the mirror.
My Ford doesn’t have those sensors, but it’s £1000 for a replacement screen, because it’s heated.
There was an A-Class that was being driven out of the workshop after body and paint refurbishing, and the entire dash display went black, another Merc that a driver had dropped off, someone went to move it to inspection, and the car was dead, and despite one of our guys spending a stupid number of hours trying to find a way to get it to start, which involved him sitting in the car with his laptop, the car was bricked, and had to be literally dragged onto a flatbed, with the wheels locked, and taken to a dealership.
A broken LED headlight unit will cost you £1200, as will one of those s****y panoramic glass roofs, so best be very, very careful fitting a roof rack or bike carrier up there…
It’s only going to get worse, what with the obsession manufacturers have with all the S w A n k y* displays they keep fitting in new cars, and which I’ve had an extensive rant about in another thread, then there’s the subscription model manufacturers are trying to force owners into accepting, where it’s another twenty quid a month to activate a feature that’s built into the car, like BMW tried to do with Apple CarPlay, although it cost BMW nothing; GM are no longer fitting it, you have rely on their proprietary software built into the car - but never mind, it’s probably going run just as well as MS Vista…
Oh, then there’s the whizzy new bolt design BMW have just registered, so you’ll only be able to get work done by an approved BMW service centre.
🤣
*I had to do that stupid spacing, because all of a sudden, s w a n k y is an offensive word! FFS! 🤬
And it still doesn’t ‘kin work!
V90 offside headlight unit = £2500. Yes, that's right. And I paid it <sigh>
IIRC a fauly headlamp was one of the issues on that long running warranty claim thread earlier in the year. No wonder the bastards at the dealership did everything in their power to avoid replacement.
Does strengthen the argument for leasing over buying, or holding on to an older motor!
Essentially this is a narrow scope version of the enshitification thread isn't it?
I suspect the actual failure rate of these big parts at sub 10 years is probably relatively low vs. the population of vehicles on the road but that's no comfort if you're the one with the £3000 broken tail light or whatever.
I was mulling over the wider obsolete/fragile tech in cars thing this week and thinking I'm just going to lease cars in the future for as long as I can afford to when the current one expires.
Although from what I've read there'll be some brands with poor parts supply chain / long back orders who I'll be avoiding too, which is a shame because I really like the look of their EVs. 😞
I’m not sure the failure rates is that low not everyone posts on pistonheads that a part has broken, there’s a habit of engineering this stuff to the minimum ,why make a part out of metal that will last for 10 years when you can make it out of plastic and a hopefull 5 year life as long as it lasts the manufacturers warranty period who cares how long it goes on after.
Mercs were great but they originally weren’t the mass market product they are today and making them a mass market product is why they have been enshittened.
Cars are more of a consumer disposable than ever, look at the sheer amount of weird plastic hoses and pipes in a bmw or merc or the sheer majesty of running the timing belts in oil a la Ford.
See my £500 Cayenne thread for how to run complex cars on a shoestring. In summary
1. Know your OEM's - eg the V60 tailgate struts are made by Stabilus and are £250 - £300. See also ATE for Volvo brakes, Elring, Corteco etc.
2. Buy from Autodoc - put items in your basket but only buy when the discount is +40%
3. Only buy cars that have cloned/grey market OBD diagnostics, I have Volvo VIDA/DICE and Vagcom/Foxwell for Porsche. I can DIY diagnose to dealership/factory levels.
4. Find the genuine specialists and not just the back street cowboys who clean the dirt off and give it a lick of shiny paint. Preston Power Steering rebuilt my Volvo steering rack and did a great job for far cheaper than the genuine Volvo dealership part (factory supplied Volvo racks are only refurbished and not fully new), I visited his workshop and had a brew whilst tickling his dog and talking steering racks. I found similar specialist places for engine block machining and automatic gearbox work.
5. Fix things yourself - unless you have a brand new 1st of the line model someone somewhere well have already had the same problems. Join the relevent FB group/forum and find the information.
Happy spannering!
I would absolutely love to have somewhere i could spanner cars. Used to do everything on my cars in my dad's workshop as a youngster. Sadly now I don't have a garage or even a drive. I'd need to rent a lockup
Interestingly, Grant’s latest video highlights the BMW ‘screw’ issue, where they don’t want ‘persons’ working on their own cars. You couldn’t make it up!
V90 offside headlight unit = £2500. Yes, that's right. And I paid it <sigh>
LED unit?
Indeed. All in one and full of must haves = f ing expensive. I suspect if the other goes, I may have had a small bump in a supermarket car park... Not really, fraud is not my preferred game...
V90 offside headlight unit = £2500. Yes, that's right. And I paid it <sigh>
IIRC a fauly headlamp was one of the issues on that long running warranty claim thread earlier in the year. No wonder the bastards at the dealership did everything in their power to avoid replacement.
Does strengthen the argument for leasing over buying, or holding on to an older motor!
People talk about 'peak car'. Our other one, is a 2016 petrol Nonda Civic. It has enough creature comforts; Nav, air con, cruise etc but is also simple enough. No swivelling eyes, turbos, direct injection, EGR's, DPF's, DMF's, enormous screens, dinosaur sensors or whatever. It's fantastically reliable, does 40+ mpg and is a sunk cost both economically and environmentally. Apart from eventual tin worm, it'll probably outlast the apocalypse.
I'll wager that will still be going strong when the V90 has retired due to a five figure cost dry joint replacement/repair later in its life.
So anyone want to play the - guess the cost of repair game?
Car currently at Merc, now awaiting the part to be delivered ☹️
So anyone want to play the - guess the cost of repair game?
Car currently at Merc, now awaiting the part to be delivered ☹️
Probably a write off...
I can change the headlight bulbs in my Auris by feel in the dark in 2 minutes. They cost £10 each. Its also just gone through yet another MOT at 150k with no advisories. In 12 years of ownership all I've done is get it serviced and done the discs/pads plus tyres obvs. I keep putting off buying another car as I just know it will be a headache. I've always bought my cars as ex-demo/pre reg/ 1 year old and kept them for 10 years but I'm thinking about leasing next, not because I want a new car but just so when they inevitably go wrong I can at least get the problem fixed under warranty.
People talk about 'peak car'. Our other one, is a 2016 petrol Nonda Civic. It has enough creature comforts; Nav, air con, cruise etc but is also simple enough. No swivelling eyes, turbos, direct injection, EGR's, DPF's, DMF's, enormous screens, dinosaur sensors or whatever. It's fantastically reliable, does 40+ mpg and is a sunk cost both economically and environmentally. Apart from eventual tin worm, it'll probably outlast the apocalypse.
I'll wager that will still be going strong when the V90 has retired due to a five figure cost dry joint replacement/repair later in its life.
Thats the frustration really - underneath all this pointless fancification cars are actually great. There seemed to be a sweetspot in the early noughties when cars seemed to be sort of 'solved'. Engines that worked in bodies that didn't rot.
I've got a 18 year old Peugeot that has been in the family since new. Every single button, knob, nicknack and electrically assisted do-dah still works. While it has had some fairly major repairs at times over that span - it could be booked in, sometimes weeks in advance and driven to the garage to have that repair - it has never failed to start and has never broken down, never had a call out or a tow. It has never even been in limp mode, and it's a fancy pants common rail turbo diesel with EGRs and sensor and everything, not some luddite NA petrol.
Some of the issues with modern cars are ones that have been forced on the industry - emissions legislation came into force on too quick a schedule for the industry to react properly so emissions systems have been retrofitted to engines and cars that weren't designed with them in mind. And that has been compounded by a motor maintenance sector who have been woefully slow at learning how to maintain, diagnose and fix these systems and weirdly wear that ignorance and a badge of honour.
But many of the problems are caused by and overlay of unnecessary crap over a sound vehicle, crap that is too integrated for the car to work properly without them - infotainment systems which if they crash take out the speedo for instance. These aren't forced errors. Its lazy design - lazy in the sense of not having the discipline to edit, instead just to add more and more 'ideas' without reasoning for them and passing the burden of them onto the consumer
All the frivolous stuff should fail to 'working' - a complex look round corners headlamp should fail to 'a headlamp' if the clever stuff stops working - or at least you should be able to be straight forwardly replaced with a normal headlamp.
If an escalator stops working it's still a flight of stairs.
So it’s £1,850 for a camera and a ‘health check’ video to tell me the tyres are fine and the new brakes I had put on recently are still erm new.
Bargain
Apparently their hourly rate is £225ph. It’s crackers
The last few cars have been lease . This was the first we have swallowed a lot of money into to buy.
The way modern cars are going leasing does look more appealing again
So anyone want to play the - guess the cost of repair game?
Car currently at Merc, now awaiting the part to be delivered ☹️
£1,000 to £1,500 😬
p/s: just saw the price ... 😮
pp/s: My 20 year old Toyota will be getting all the absorbers etc replaced soon and am waiting for a quote now 😐
The way modern cars are going leasing does look more appealing again
Exactly what manufactures want. None of them want affordable motoring.
See my £500 Cayenne thread for how to run complex cars on a shoestring. In summary
1. Know your OEM's - eg the V60 tailgate struts are made by Stabilus and are £250 - £300. See also ATE for Volvo brakes, Elring, Corteco etc.
2. Buy from Autodoc - put items in your basket but only buy when the discount is +40%
3. Only buy cars that have cloned/grey market OBD diagnostics, I have Volvo VIDA/DICE and Vagcom/Foxwell for Porsche. I can DIY diagnose to dealership/factory levels.
4. Find the genuine specialists and not just the back street cowboys who clean the dirt off and give it a lick of shiny paint. Preston Power Steering rebuilt my Volvo steering rack and did a great job for far cheaper than the genuine Volvo dealership part (factory supplied Volvo racks are only refurbished and not fully new), I visited his workshop and had a brew whilst tickling his dog and talking steering racks. I found similar specialist places for engine block machining and automatic gearbox work.
5. Fix things yourself - unless you have a brand new 1st of the line model someone somewhere well have already had the same problems. Join the relevent FB group/forum and find the information.
Happy spannering!
There's also the benefit that old cars get scrapped.
Yes a headlight might cost £2500 new, but once you hit 5/10/15/20 years old then they'll be a more sensible price from a scrap yard as something else will have written off the car and (unless they really are an unreliable part) there will almost always be more of those parts available than there are people who need them.
See my £500 Cayenne thread for how to run complex cars on a shoestring. In summary
1. Know your OEM's - eg the V60 tailgate struts are made by Stabilus and are £250 - £300. See also ATE for Volvo brakes, Elring, Corteco etc.
2. Buy from Autodoc - put items in your basket but only buy when the discount is +40%
3. Only buy cars that have cloned/grey market OBD diagnostics, I have Volvo VIDA/DICE and Vagcom/Foxwell for Porsche. I can DIY diagnose to dealership/factory levels.
4. Find the genuine specialists and not just the back street cowboys who clean the dirt off and give it a lick of shiny paint. Preston Power Steering rebuilt my Volvo steering rack and did a great job for far cheaper than the genuine Volvo dealership part (factory supplied Volvo racks are only refurbished and not fully new), I visited his workshop and had a brew whilst tickling his dog and talking steering racks. I found similar specialist places for engine block machining and automatic gearbox work.
5. Fix things yourself - unless you have a brand new 1st of the line model someone somewhere well have already had the same problems. Join the relevent FB group/forum and find the information.
Happy spannering!
There's also the benefit that old cars get scrapped.
Yes a headlight might cost £2500 new, but once you hit 5/10/15/20 years old then they'll be a more sensible price from a scrap yard as something else will have written off the car and (unless they really are an unreliable part) there will almost always be more of those parts available than there are people who need them.
I could have gone this route and saved many £££'s - maybe. But, you probably need to actually go to the scrappy. Buying from eBay, you get the usual nearside instead of offside or broken and scratched described as 'perfect like new' or a Lamberetta light instead of a V90... And not forgetting it could be the light or it could be the module or it could be both or it could be the loom etc etc ad nauseum. Establishing that at the dealer is ~£200 p/h. Yes you could do it yourself but I've no interest in that route nor the facilities to do it. The last motah I spent any time under was a Mk1 Escort 🙃
Right on cue my Fabia 1.0tsi throws EPC light and restricted performance on the way home...
And not forgetting it could be the light or it could be the module or it could be both or it could be the loom etc etc ad nauseum.
This is going to be an increasing issue, where a tiny connection within a larger unit, be it a display screen, an LED light unit, or, in the case of an EV/hybrid, a failure deep within the battery or drive system, where the cost of repair or replacement could easily exceed the value of the vehicle.
Copart will be doing good business, that’s for sure! They took over the Cazoo site I worked at in Westbury, they’re going to need the extra space! 🤣
Nothing new but the expensive bits just seem to have filtered down the chain. 20 years a go you could buy a superb condition second hand S Class Merc for relative buttons because they cost so much to fix.
I'm on a Ford Kuga. At least there's plenty of YouTube videos to repair most things.
Service - nothing special service is about £300 at an independent. More obvs at the main stealers. For an oil + filter and air filter change, amd a few checks that are either meaningless and/or obvious (interior lights working ? Ffs I can tell that myself!). Got Castrol oil + bosch filters from Opie Oils for about £100, and do it myself. MOT covers stuff they supposed to check on a service so why bother.
Also doing some preventative- more regular oil changes, and changed the oil in the sealed-til-failure-out-of-warranty things like the gearbox and transfer box (YouTube is filled with transfer box failure videos from the oil degrading / turning to tar right after the 3 year warranty is out !).
Ford wanted £500+ to fix the e-hand brake switch in the console that had mechanically broken. Managed to get one from The Netherlands for £30 2nd hand, and change it in about 30 mins (inc being very careful and slow as to not break pieces of trim). YouTube was my friend again too to see how the trim was clipped in
It might be worth considering warranties. I extended the manufacturers warranty on my Seat Leon last year for £300 and it covered two failures totalling about £1400. It covers most things so even if a LED headlight goes pop that's covered also. It's a nice peace of mind to have.
All the frivolous stuff should fail to 'working' - a complex look round corners headlamp should fail to 'a headlamp' if the clever stuff stops working - or at least you should be able to be straight forwardly replaced with a normal headlamp.
One of my Cayennes had PASM suspension - and the reason I bought it really cheap. It failed its MOT on some of them starting to leak. It came into my possession and I fitted standard non PASM Sachs (OEM) shocks, I then coded out out the PASM module and removed it from the car. The PASM control switch has been removed and replaced with the coin ash/tray fitted to non PASM Cayennes.
I saved many thousands and I don’t need the PASM suspension for my style of driving. So the summary is that sometimes complex modules can be downgraded to basic/lower spec options if they need repairing
Now I’m saying all that about repairing cars and sustainability…..but we are in France at the moment and have a hire car…….and it’s the biggest pile of shit ive ever driven! Id happily do the world a favour and WhistlinDiesel style durability test it to destruction.
Its a Skoda Kamiq, 1litre 114bhp. The user interface/dashboard is crap, heater controls are crap, the engine is lumpy at idle, its gutless climbing hills at motorway speeds - no way is this engine going to last +200k miles. It just feels lightweight and disposable.
Some cars I just absolutely hate and I would rather scrap than repair, my Mk7 Transit was one such vehicle, this Skoda would be another. My 2004 Peugeot Partner is a better vehicle, my Volvo and Cayennes feel like they are carved from solid blocks in comparison.
Appologies if anyone actually owns one of these.
Just to rub salt in your wounds, maybe 😀
Ford wanted £500+ to fix the e-hand brake switch in the console that had mechanically broken.
That’s another one of those things that isn’t broken that manufacturers are trying to fix! Another reason I chose my EcoSport, it has a proper handbrake that you grab and pull. As it’s a semi-automatic, it has a hill-hold function for when you have to stop for traffic, traffic lights, etc, and just works really well, the electronic brake system on more than a few cars I drove left a lot to be desired, allowing the car to start moving backwards as soon as you try to release it.
Some cars I just absolutely hate and I would rather scrap than repair, my Mk7 Transit was one such vehicle
Triggered...
But.... my MK7 Transit still hasn't rusted out, I did properly needle clean and dinitrol (annual top ups) everything facing the road tbf. Aside from a few pipes and the usual pads/discs sort of thing. The only real fault (aside from being a dirty old diesel and needing a new battery perhaps a year or two sooner than expected) was a single brake sensor that failed and was giving false alerts elsewhere.
That said, pretty sure if we keep it a couple more years I'll be buying sills in 2026 for patchwork repairs.
It lives next to the sea and drives on Scottish winter roads. I'd honestly expected the chassis to be proper ****ed by now. But I do feel it can't be too far off end of life.
Its a Skoda Kamiq, 1litre 114bhp. The user interface/dashboard is crap, heater controls are crap, the engine is lumpy at idle, its gutless climbing hills at motorway speeds - no way is this engine going to last +200k miles. It just feels lightweight and disposable.
It has a tiny little three cylinder turbo engine. It's never going to be as smooth as a four or six cylinder engine and it's always going to struggle to haul a fully laden vehicle up a decent hill.
The way modern cars are going leasing does look more appealing again
Exactly what manufactures want. None of them want affordable motoring.
the problem with leasing is its a model that relies on the cars having a market value at the end of the lease. If the first users are leasers who have no reason to care what daft bells and whistles are included, or more particularly are easily seduced by them (a lot of them are about putting on a show whilst stationary in a showroom, then the cars moving on to the second hand market are going to be exactly the cars 2nd hand buyers are going to actively avoid buying. The greater the drop in value during the term of the lease the more the lease has to cost. The more it costs the more it requires leasers to downgrade their expectations and the appeal of leasing up til now is the ability to drive around in a car that appears to be beyond your means.
Some cars I just absolutely hate and I would rather scrap than repair, my Mk7 Transit was one such vehicle
Triggered...
But.... my MK7 Transit still hasn't rusted out, I did properly needle clean and dinitrol (annual top ups) everything facing the road tbf. Aside from a few pipes and the usual pads/discs sort of thing. The only real fault (aside from being a dirty old diesel and needing a new battery perhaps a year or two sooner than expected) was a single brake sensor that failed and was giving false alerts elsewhere.
That said, pretty sure if we keep it a couple more years I'll be buying sills in 2026 for patchwork repairs.
It lives next to the sea and drives on Scottish winter roads. I'd honestly expected the chassis to be proper ****ed by now. But I do feel it can't be too far off end of life.
i Waxoyl’d mine inside and out before I realised waxoyl was shite. Between MOT’s it rotted out the sills, drivers step and front arch despite regular hosing it underneath through winter.
The things that pushed me over the edge were;
captive bolt breaking off and spinning when changing front control arm. Had to carefully measure and hole saw through three layers to reach the cavity.
torx bolts rusting out on the front brake discs and needing grinding off except you couldn’t get in with a grinder.
bottom ball joint needing a special press to replace it
something I can’t remember but I still have the mental anguish of the rear prop shaft bearings
rear diff pinion seal leaking
front brake lines routed to catch maximum road crap and rust through.
All this in <100k miles
Its a Skoda Kamiq, 1litre 114bhp. The user interface/dashboard is crap, heater controls are crap, the engine is lumpy at idle, its gutless climbing hills at motorway speeds - no way is this engine going to last +200k miles. It just feels lightweight and disposable.
It has a tiny little three cylinder turbo engine. It's never going to be as smooth as a four or six cylinder engine and it's always going to struggle to haul a fully laden vehicle up a decent hill.
to its credit its done ~43mpg on a long 130km/h autoroute run. It just doesn’t feel solid and capable of mega mileage, I couldn’t see it doing +200k miles like my previous V70 or my current xC90 (my Cayenne is 180k)
then the cars moving on to the second hand market are going to be exactly the cars 2nd hand buyers are going to actively avoid buying
I thnk this assumes people buy cars that are easy to maintain and fix.
From my experience, thats a minority of people. Most buy on brand image, looks and other superficial things. It's why JLR still exists 😉
bottom ball joint needing a special press to replace it
haha , guess what I've been doing over xmas..... Liberal application of heat and a 2lb lump hammer got it out in lieu of the mega expensive press. pressed the new ones in with some custom supports in the hydraulic press.
They have not got any better - working on a 2016 transit with <80k on the clock . Having to do all the brakes disks , and lines , Lower ball joints , wheel bearings
I've worked on a wide range of vans and i think i will say the transit - certainly mk4 onwards have been one of the worst for longevity AND for working on ... they used to say Ivecos were terrible to work on - but since buying one i realise its just due to everything being heavy and over built - access is actually really good which makes a huge difference. remove the lump stick it on the press and remove the broken bit.
to its credit its done ~43mpg on a long 130km/h autoroute run. It just doesn’t feel solid and capable of mega mileage, I couldn’t see it doing +200k miles like my previous V70 or my current xC90 (my Cayenne is 180k)
Wondering what the price difference is in petrol for those 180k miles though?
My back of an envelope maths suggests at 25mpg Vs 43mpg, the Cayenne will cost roughly an extra £15,000?
That should cover a replacement engine, a slap up feed, and still leave money for your, er, bus fare home...
You can see that the Transit is engineered/designed to be easy and quick to fabricate on a production line without a second thought about the person servicing or repairing it further down the line.
Contrast this to the Volvo P2 / Gothenburg *era cars which were of a similiar time frame. There were so many easter eggs that helped and assisted serving and repair work later down on. Timing belt change is a classic - undo the non corroding plastic wheel nut and fold the inner wheel arch liner along its pre moulded fold line for easy access. Ford wouldn’t do that.
*I don’t know if Geely era Volvo still has this engineer lead philosophy?
BTW, on the 'lease vs purchase' question, people at the Mercedes end of the market may be interested to note that Lexus (like Toyota) do a 10 year warranty...
BTW, on the 'lease vs purchase' question, people at the Mercedes end of the market may be interested to note that Lexus (like Toyota) do a 10 year warranty...
The owners manual for my 1981 bike gives just 6 months warranty and excluded any parts not specifically made by the manufacturer - so brakes, suspension, clocks, most of the electrics had no warranty whatsoever.