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V90 offside headlight unit = £2500. Yes, that's right. And I paid it <sigh>
IIRC a fauly headlamp was one of the issues on that long running warranty claim thread earlier in the year. No wonder the bastards at the dealership did everything in their power to avoid replacement.
Does strengthen the argument for leasing over buying, or holding on to an older motor!
Essentially this is a narrow scope version of the enshitification thread isn't it?
I suspect the actual failure rate of these big parts at sub 10 years is probably relatively low vs. the population of vehicles on the road but that's no comfort if you're the one with the £3000 broken tail light or whatever.
I was mulling over the wider obsolete/fragile tech in cars thing this week and thinking I'm just going to lease cars in the future for as long as I can afford to when the current one expires.
Although from what I've read there'll be some brands with poor parts supply chain / long back orders who I'll be avoiding too, which is a shame because I really like the look of their EVs. 😞
I’m not sure the failure rates is that low not everyone posts on pistonheads that a part has broken, there’s a habit of engineering this stuff to the minimum ,why make a part out of metal that will last for 10 years when you can make it out of plastic and a hopefull 5 year life as long as it lasts the manufacturers warranty period who cares how long it goes on after.
Mercs were great but they originally weren’t the mass market product they are today and making them a mass market product is why they have been enshittened.
Cars are more of a consumer disposable than ever, look at the sheer amount of weird plastic hoses and pipes in a bmw or merc or the sheer majesty of running the timing belts in oil a la Ford.
See my £500 Cayenne thread for how to run complex cars on a shoestring. In summary
1. Know your OEM's - eg the V60 tailgate struts are made by Stabilus and are £250 - £300. See also ATE for Volvo brakes, Elring, Corteco etc.
2. Buy from Autodoc - put items in your basket but only buy when the discount is +40%
3. Only buy cars that have cloned/grey market OBD diagnostics, I have Volvo VIDA/DICE and Vagcom/Foxwell for Porsche. I can DIY diagnose to dealership/factory levels.
4. Find the genuine specialists and not just the back street cowboys who clean the dirt off and give it a lick of shiny paint. Preston Power Steering rebuilt my Volvo steering rack and did a great job for far cheaper than the genuine Volvo dealership part (factory supplied Volvo racks are only refurbished and not fully new), I visited his workshop and had a brew whilst tickling his dog and talking steering racks. I found similar specialist places for engine block machining and automatic gearbox work.
5. Fix things yourself - unless you have a brand new 1st of the line model someone somewhere well have already had the same problems. Join the relevent FB group/forum and find the information.
Happy spannering!
I would absolutely love to have somewhere i could spanner cars. Used to do everything on my cars in my dad's workshop as a youngster. Sadly now I don't have a garage or even a drive. I'd need to rent a lockup
Interestingly, Grant’s latest video highlights the BMW ‘screw’ issue, where they don’t want ‘persons’ working on their own cars. You couldn’t make it up!
V90 offside headlight unit = £2500. Yes, that's right. And I paid it <sigh>
LED unit?
Indeed. All in one and full of must haves = f ing expensive. I suspect if the other goes, I may have had a small bump in a supermarket car park... Not really, fraud is not my preferred game...
V90 offside headlight unit = £2500. Yes, that's right. And I paid it <sigh>
IIRC a fauly headlamp was one of the issues on that long running warranty claim thread earlier in the year. No wonder the bastards at the dealership did everything in their power to avoid replacement.
Does strengthen the argument for leasing over buying, or holding on to an older motor!
People talk about 'peak car'. Our other one, is a 2016 petrol Nonda Civic. It has enough creature comforts; Nav, air con, cruise etc but is also simple enough. No swivelling eyes, turbos, direct injection, EGR's, DPF's, DMF's, enormous screens, dinosaur sensors or whatever. It's fantastically reliable, does 40+ mpg and is a sunk cost both economically and environmentally. Apart from eventual tin worm, it'll probably outlast the apocalypse.
I'll wager that will still be going strong when the V90 has retired due to a five figure cost dry joint replacement/repair later in its life.
So anyone want to play the - guess the cost of repair game?
Car currently at Merc, now awaiting the part to be delivered ☹️
So anyone want to play the - guess the cost of repair game?
Car currently at Merc, now awaiting the part to be delivered ☹️
Probably a write off...
I can change the headlight bulbs in my Auris by feel in the dark in 2 minutes. They cost £10 each. Its also just gone through yet another MOT at 150k with no advisories. In 12 years of ownership all I've done is get it serviced and done the discs/pads plus tyres obvs. I keep putting off buying another car as I just know it will be a headache. I've always bought my cars as ex-demo/pre reg/ 1 year old and kept them for 10 years but I'm thinking about leasing next, not because I want a new car but just so when they inevitably go wrong I can at least get the problem fixed under warranty.
People talk about 'peak car'. Our other one, is a 2016 petrol Nonda Civic. It has enough creature comforts; Nav, air con, cruise etc but is also simple enough. No swivelling eyes, turbos, direct injection, EGR's, DPF's, DMF's, enormous screens, dinosaur sensors or whatever. It's fantastically reliable, does 40+ mpg and is a sunk cost both economically and environmentally. Apart from eventual tin worm, it'll probably outlast the apocalypse.
I'll wager that will still be going strong when the V90 has retired due to a five figure cost dry joint replacement/repair later in its life.
Thats the frustration really - underneath all this pointless fancification cars are actually great. There seemed to be a sweetspot in the early noughties when cars seemed to be sort of 'solved'. Engines that worked in bodies that didn't rot.
I've got a 18 year old Peugeot that has been in the family since new. Every single button, knob, nicknack and electrically assisted do-dah still works. While it has had some fairly major repairs at times over that span - it could be booked in, sometimes weeks in advance and driven to the garage to have that repair - it has never failed to start and has never broken down, never had a call out or a tow. It has never even been in limp mode, and it's a fancy pants common rail turbo diesel with EGRs and sensor and everything, not some luddite NA petrol.
Some of the issues with modern cars are ones that have been forced on the industry - emissions legislation came into force on too quick a schedule for the industry to react properly so emissions systems have been retrofitted to engines and cars that weren't designed with them in mind. And that has been compounded by a motor maintenance sector who have been woefully slow at learning how to maintain, diagnose and fix these systems and weirdly wear that ignorance and a badge of honour.
But many of the problems are caused by and overlay of unnecessary crap over a sound vehicle, crap that is too integrated for the car to work properly without them - infotainment systems which if they crash take out the speedo for instance. These aren't forced errors. Its lazy design - lazy in the sense of not having the discipline to edit, instead just to add more and more 'ideas' without reasoning for them and passing the burden of them onto the consumer
All the frivolous stuff should fail to 'working' - a complex look round corners headlamp should fail to 'a headlamp' if the clever stuff stops working - or at least you should be able to be straight forwardly replaced with a normal headlamp.
If an escalator stops working it's still a flight of stairs.
So it’s £1,850 for a camera and a ‘health check’ video to tell me the tyres are fine and the new brakes I had put on recently are still erm new.
Bargain
Apparently their hourly rate is £225ph. It’s crackers
The last few cars have been lease . This was the first we have swallowed a lot of money into to buy.
The way modern cars are going leasing does look more appealing again
So anyone want to play the - guess the cost of repair game?
Car currently at Merc, now awaiting the part to be delivered ☹️
£1,000 to £1,500 😬
p/s: just saw the price ... 😮
pp/s: My 20 year old Toyota will be getting all the absorbers etc replaced soon and am waiting for a quote now 😐
The way modern cars are going leasing does look more appealing again
Exactly what manufactures want. None of them want affordable motoring.
See my £500 Cayenne thread for how to run complex cars on a shoestring. In summary
1. Know your OEM's - eg the V60 tailgate struts are made by Stabilus and are £250 - £300. See also ATE for Volvo brakes, Elring, Corteco etc.
2. Buy from Autodoc - put items in your basket but only buy when the discount is +40%
3. Only buy cars that have cloned/grey market OBD diagnostics, I have Volvo VIDA/DICE and Vagcom/Foxwell for Porsche. I can DIY diagnose to dealership/factory levels.
4. Find the genuine specialists and not just the back street cowboys who clean the dirt off and give it a lick of shiny paint. Preston Power Steering rebuilt my Volvo steering rack and did a great job for far cheaper than the genuine Volvo dealership part (factory supplied Volvo racks are only refurbished and not fully new), I visited his workshop and had a brew whilst tickling his dog and talking steering racks. I found similar specialist places for engine block machining and automatic gearbox work.
5. Fix things yourself - unless you have a brand new 1st of the line model someone somewhere well have already had the same problems. Join the relevent FB group/forum and find the information.
Happy spannering!
There's also the benefit that old cars get scrapped.
Yes a headlight might cost £2500 new, but once you hit 5/10/15/20 years old then they'll be a more sensible price from a scrap yard as something else will have written off the car and (unless they really are an unreliable part) there will almost always be more of those parts available than there are people who need them.
See my £500 Cayenne thread for how to run complex cars on a shoestring. In summary
1. Know your OEM's - eg the V60 tailgate struts are made by Stabilus and are £250 - £300. See also ATE for Volvo brakes, Elring, Corteco etc.
2. Buy from Autodoc - put items in your basket but only buy when the discount is +40%
3. Only buy cars that have cloned/grey market OBD diagnostics, I have Volvo VIDA/DICE and Vagcom/Foxwell for Porsche. I can DIY diagnose to dealership/factory levels.
4. Find the genuine specialists and not just the back street cowboys who clean the dirt off and give it a lick of shiny paint. Preston Power Steering rebuilt my Volvo steering rack and did a great job for far cheaper than the genuine Volvo dealership part (factory supplied Volvo racks are only refurbished and not fully new), I visited his workshop and had a brew whilst tickling his dog and talking steering racks. I found similar specialist places for engine block machining and automatic gearbox work.
5. Fix things yourself - unless you have a brand new 1st of the line model someone somewhere well have already had the same problems. Join the relevent FB group/forum and find the information.
Happy spannering!
There's also the benefit that old cars get scrapped.
Yes a headlight might cost £2500 new, but once you hit 5/10/15/20 years old then they'll be a more sensible price from a scrap yard as something else will have written off the car and (unless they really are an unreliable part) there will almost always be more of those parts available than there are people who need them.
I could have gone this route and saved many £££'s - maybe. But, you probably need to actually go to the scrappy. Buying from eBay, you get the usual nearside instead of offside or broken and scratched described as 'perfect like new' or a Lamberetta light instead of a V90... And not forgetting it could be the light or it could be the module or it could be both or it could be the loom etc etc ad nauseum. Establishing that at the dealer is ~£200 p/h. Yes you could do it yourself but I've no interest in that route nor the facilities to do it. The last motah I spent any time under was a Mk1 Escort 🙃
Right on cue my Fabia 1.0tsi throws EPC light and restricted performance on the way home...
And not forgetting it could be the light or it could be the module or it could be both or it could be the loom etc etc ad nauseum.
This is going to be an increasing issue, where a tiny connection within a larger unit, be it a display screen, an LED light unit, or, in the case of an EV/hybrid, a failure deep within the battery or drive system, where the cost of repair or replacement could easily exceed the value of the vehicle.
Copart will be doing good business, that’s for sure! They took over the Cazoo site I worked at in Westbury, they’re going to need the extra space! 🤣
Nothing new but the expensive bits just seem to have filtered down the chain. 20 years a go you could buy a superb condition second hand S Class Merc for relative buttons because they cost so much to fix.
I'm on a Ford Kuga. At least there's plenty of YouTube videos to repair most things.
Service - nothing special service is about £300 at an independent. More obvs at the main stealers. For an oil + filter and air filter change, amd a few checks that are either meaningless and/or obvious (interior lights working ? Ffs I can tell that myself!). Got Castrol oil + bosch filters from Opie Oils for about £100, and do it myself. MOT covers stuff they supposed to check on a service so why bother.
Also doing some preventative- more regular oil changes, and changed the oil in the sealed-til-failure-out-of-warranty things like the gearbox and transfer box (YouTube is filled with transfer box failure videos from the oil degrading / turning to tar right after the 3 year warranty is out !).
Ford wanted £500+ to fix the e-hand brake switch in the console that had mechanically broken. Managed to get one from The Netherlands for £30 2nd hand, and change it in about 30 mins (inc being very careful and slow as to not break pieces of trim). YouTube was my friend again too to see how the trim was clipped in
It might be worth considering warranties. I extended the manufacturers warranty on my Seat Leon last year for £300 and it covered two failures totalling about £1400. It covers most things so even if a LED headlight goes pop that's covered also. It's a nice peace of mind to have.
All the frivolous stuff should fail to 'working' - a complex look round corners headlamp should fail to 'a headlamp' if the clever stuff stops working - or at least you should be able to be straight forwardly replaced with a normal headlamp.
One of my Cayennes had PASM suspension - and the reason I bought it really cheap. It failed its MOT on some of them starting to leak. It came into my possession and I fitted standard non PASM Sachs (OEM) shocks, I then coded out out the PASM module and removed it from the car. The PASM control switch has been removed and replaced with the coin ash/tray fitted to non PASM Cayennes.
I saved many thousands and I don’t need the PASM suspension for my style of driving. So the summary is that sometimes complex modules can be downgraded to basic/lower spec options if they need repairing
Now I’m saying all that about repairing cars and sustainability…..but we are in France at the moment and have a hire car…….and it’s the biggest pile of shit ive ever driven! Id happily do the world a favour and WhistlinDiesel style durability test it to destruction.
Its a Skoda Kamiq, 1litre 114bhp. The user interface/dashboard is crap, heater controls are crap, the engine is lumpy at idle, its gutless climbing hills at motorway speeds - no way is this engine going to last +200k miles. It just feels lightweight and disposable.
Some cars I just absolutely hate and I would rather scrap than repair, my Mk7 Transit was one such vehicle, this Skoda would be another. My 2004 Peugeot Partner is a better vehicle, my Volvo and Cayennes feel like they are carved from solid blocks in comparison.
Appologies if anyone actually owns one of these.
Just to rub salt in your wounds, maybe 😀
Ford wanted £500+ to fix the e-hand brake switch in the console that had mechanically broken.
That’s another one of those things that isn’t broken that manufacturers are trying to fix! Another reason I chose my EcoSport, it has a proper handbrake that you grab and pull. As it’s a semi-automatic, it has a hill-hold function for when you have to stop for traffic, traffic lights, etc, and just works really well, the electronic brake system on more than a few cars I drove left a lot to be desired, allowing the car to start moving backwards as soon as you try to release it.
Some cars I just absolutely hate and I would rather scrap than repair, my Mk7 Transit was one such vehicle
Triggered...
But.... my MK7 Transit still hasn't rusted out, I did properly needle clean and dinitrol (annual top ups) everything facing the road tbf. Aside from a few pipes and the usual pads/discs sort of thing. The only real fault (aside from being a dirty old diesel and needing a new battery perhaps a year or two sooner than expected) was a single brake sensor that failed and was giving false alerts elsewhere.
That said, pretty sure if we keep it a couple more years I'll be buying sills in 2026 for patchwork repairs.
It lives next to the sea and drives on Scottish winter roads. I'd honestly expected the chassis to be proper ****ed by now. But I do feel it can't be too far off end of life.
Its a Skoda Kamiq, 1litre 114bhp. The user interface/dashboard is crap, heater controls are crap, the engine is lumpy at idle, its gutless climbing hills at motorway speeds - no way is this engine going to last +200k miles. It just feels lightweight and disposable.
It has a tiny little three cylinder turbo engine. It's never going to be as smooth as a four or six cylinder engine and it's always going to struggle to haul a fully laden vehicle up a decent hill.
The way modern cars are going leasing does look more appealing again
Exactly what manufactures want. None of them want affordable motoring.
the problem with leasing is its a model that relies on the cars having a market value at the end of the lease. If the first users are leasers who have no reason to care what daft bells and whistles are included, or more particularly are easily seduced by them (a lot of them are about putting on a show whilst stationary in a showroom, then the cars moving on to the second hand market are going to be exactly the cars 2nd hand buyers are going to actively avoid buying. The greater the drop in value during the term of the lease the more the lease has to cost. The more it costs the more it requires leasers to downgrade their expectations and the appeal of leasing up til now is the ability to drive around in a car that appears to be beyond your means.
Some cars I just absolutely hate and I would rather scrap than repair, my Mk7 Transit was one such vehicle
Triggered...
But.... my MK7 Transit still hasn't rusted out, I did properly needle clean and dinitrol (annual top ups) everything facing the road tbf. Aside from a few pipes and the usual pads/discs sort of thing. The only real fault (aside from being a dirty old diesel and needing a new battery perhaps a year or two sooner than expected) was a single brake sensor that failed and was giving false alerts elsewhere.
That said, pretty sure if we keep it a couple more years I'll be buying sills in 2026 for patchwork repairs.
It lives next to the sea and drives on Scottish winter roads. I'd honestly expected the chassis to be proper ****ed by now. But I do feel it can't be too far off end of life.
i Waxoyl’d mine inside and out before I realised waxoyl was shite. Between MOT’s it rotted out the sills, drivers step and front arch despite regular hosing it underneath through winter.
The things that pushed me over the edge were;
captive bolt breaking off and spinning when changing front control arm. Had to carefully measure and hole saw through three layers to reach the cavity.
torx bolts rusting out on the front brake discs and needing grinding off except you couldn’t get in with a grinder.
bottom ball joint needing a special press to replace it
something I can’t remember but I still have the mental anguish of the rear prop shaft bearings
rear diff pinion seal leaking
front brake lines routed to catch maximum road crap and rust through.
All this in <100k miles
Its a Skoda Kamiq, 1litre 114bhp. The user interface/dashboard is crap, heater controls are crap, the engine is lumpy at idle, its gutless climbing hills at motorway speeds - no way is this engine going to last +200k miles. It just feels lightweight and disposable.
It has a tiny little three cylinder turbo engine. It's never going to be as smooth as a four or six cylinder engine and it's always going to struggle to haul a fully laden vehicle up a decent hill.
to its credit its done ~43mpg on a long 130km/h autoroute run. It just doesn’t feel solid and capable of mega mileage, I couldn’t see it doing +200k miles like my previous V70 or my current xC90 (my Cayenne is 180k)
then the cars moving on to the second hand market are going to be exactly the cars 2nd hand buyers are going to actively avoid buying
I thnk this assumes people buy cars that are easy to maintain and fix.
From my experience, thats a minority of people. Most buy on brand image, looks and other superficial things. It's why JLR still exists 😉
bottom ball joint needing a special press to replace it
haha , guess what I've been doing over xmas..... Liberal application of heat and a 2lb lump hammer got it out in lieu of the mega expensive press. pressed the new ones in with some custom supports in the hydraulic press.
They have not got any better - working on a 2016 transit with <80k on the clock . Having to do all the brakes disks , and lines , Lower ball joints , wheel bearings
I've worked on a wide range of vans and i think i will say the transit - certainly mk4 onwards have been one of the worst for longevity AND for working on ... they used to say Ivecos were terrible to work on - but since buying one i realise its just due to everything being heavy and over built - access is actually really good which makes a huge difference. remove the lump stick it on the press and remove the broken bit.
to its credit its done ~43mpg on a long 130km/h autoroute run. It just doesn’t feel solid and capable of mega mileage, I couldn’t see it doing +200k miles like my previous V70 or my current xC90 (my Cayenne is 180k)
Wondering what the price difference is in petrol for those 180k miles though?
My back of an envelope maths suggests at 25mpg Vs 43mpg, the Cayenne will cost roughly an extra £15,000?
That should cover a replacement engine, a slap up feed, and still leave money for your, er, bus fare home...
You can see that the Transit is engineered/designed to be easy and quick to fabricate on a production line without a second thought about the person servicing or repairing it further down the line.
Contrast this to the Volvo P2 / Gothenburg *era cars which were of a similiar time frame. There were so many easter eggs that helped and assisted serving and repair work later down on. Timing belt change is a classic - undo the non corroding plastic wheel nut and fold the inner wheel arch liner along its pre moulded fold line for easy access. Ford wouldn’t do that.
*I don’t know if Geely era Volvo still has this engineer lead philosophy?
BTW, on the 'lease vs purchase' question, people at the Mercedes end of the market may be interested to note that Lexus (like Toyota) do a 10 year warranty...
BTW, on the 'lease vs purchase' question, people at the Mercedes end of the market may be interested to note that Lexus (like Toyota) do a 10 year warranty...
The owners manual for my 1981 bike gives just 6 months warranty and excluded any parts not specifically made by the manufacturer - so brakes, suspension, clocks, most of the electrics had no warranty whatsoever.
Between MOT’s it rotted out the sills, drivers step and front arch despite regular hosing it underneath through winter.
I'm expecting to cut the driver's step out this summer if we keep it, a pretty* job it won't be. Time spent helping my neighbor replace their cast iron gutters is what it'll cost.
*It's a MK7 Transit, I don't care.