[Closed] "Modern cars are too powerful for UK roads"

Dipped in and out of this thread, as i don't really give a shit about most of the willy waving and can't believe its still going on. But Jimjam is there any reason you're not saying what it is you have...? Seems that's at least half the posts.

*[s]Modern[/s] cars are too powerful for dickheads.

Those Sierras are so righteous. Love seeing those around 😀 Definitely too powerful for dickheads, that one.

njee20 But Jimjam is there any reason you're not saying what it is you have...? Seems that's at least half the posts.

I thought I did explain. So I can take the brand moral high ground against anyone else, obviously 😉

I was assuming we're now playing a guessing game.

Never mind what I drive. it's quick enough to give me perspective on quick cars. Leave it at that.

[quote=jimjam ]This is about as close as I can think. Obviously not an estate but 4x4

Nope.

Which is why I was struggling to give you a straight answer.

I have no idea what this thread is about now, but I am always in awe of the awsomeness of the pro drivers who make progress up and down our estate.

You'll be thinking of one of these:

[img] [/img]

monkeychild - Member

I have no idea what this thread is about now,

I dared to suggest bikes weren't "all that" since I could easily keep up with them on a road I'd driven a few thousand times. Now apparently I have to prove it to people who weren't there.

aracer - Member

You'll be thinking of one of these:

That's 90s though.

It is - the 80s ones weren't 4x4. If you're after something 80s, turbo, 4x4 and bigger than a Delta then I think we're out of options.

This is the internet - proof is always required!

I'm with you, monkeychild. Watching the omnipotent Driving Gods at work is always a sight to see.

Edit: Also, see above...

[img] [/img]

I'm sure somebody on this thread recently described Mondeos as dull to drive, though I'm guessing he wasn't using the same criteria as Cougar

I dunno, my previous car was a Mondeo and it was a hoot, an absolute joy to drive. Best car I've had and second most comfortable.

Ah, was just coming back to the thread to post one of those - though I'm fairly sure that's a 90s one. This claims to be 1986. I think they also claimed it was an estate!

[IMG] [/IMG]

It's strange that you talk about bikers (i.e. the human element) but cars (the mechanical element) as if all car drivers have consomethinge driving skills.

I guess you totally missed my point that bikes require a lot more skill to ride properly fast.

jimjam - Member

I dared to suggest bikes weren't "all that" since I could easily keep up with them on a road I'd driven a few thousand times.

Except in your own post you accepted it was entirely down to those riders, nothing to do with the capability of bikes. But you seems like you're mostly up for an argument, even if it's with yourself

aracer - You're right, i cheated there as i think the 90s one looks more mighty...

To be fair, it's straight line performance that's at issue here, rather than cornering. It's probably a fair assumption that someone who can make a decent fist of riding a bike found a corner can, by extension, move their wrist slightly to open the throttle on the straights.

As such, chances are they weren't really trying - rendering the whole argument unnecessary. Still curious to know what jimjam was driving though. Can we have another clue? In line or vee?

thooms - Member
...Still curious to know what jimjam was driving though.

Surfmat's old car?

i recently bought a boxter s. Took it up to 90 on the motorway and it felt a lot scarier than my old ibiza cupra. 270 bhp and ive used about 150 of them max. Its basically like my Enduro bike, ie far far more capable than I'll ever be.

I don't understand how people can get anywhere near the limits of a car like that.

Truth is that most people don't, even when they think they are driving very very quickly. When you've been around professional motor racing as long as I have you realise how slow you actually are as an ordinary driving enthusiast. In the context of your Enduro bike, it's like dreaming you could keep up with the likes of Graves.

It's just the same for the bike butters too, most can't even scratch the surface of their superbike's capability.

moshimonster - Member
...It's just the same for the bike butters too, most can't even scratch the surface of their superbike's capability.

and stay alive.

Unbearably giant egos, slogging it out once again. Go buy a bicycle then come and report back to us.

I got fed up of the cloak & dagger act from jimjam so I did a bit of snooping.

It's a Subaru Legacy GTB Twin Turbo.

The reason for not telling us is a bit of a [i]non sequitur[/i]. Jimjam hasn't told anyone because people on here know him and it would defeat the purpose of having a sleeper. But saying you have a sleeper to people who know you lets those people know that your "average family estate" is very much a Q car.

All that for a GTB? Sheesh.

The Flying Ox - Member
I got fed up of the cloak & dagger act from jimjam so I did a bit of snooping.
It's a Subaru Legacy GTB Twin Turbo...

The MI6 award goes to The Flying Ox.

To be fair to jimjam, that's a very capable car, and I'll be surprised if he doesn't enjoy the occasional game of turkey hunting against bumper-hugging German cars himself - why else go stealth?

When I lived in Oz, the bumper huggers tended to be in large Ozzie V8s with enormous tyres and blistering acceleration, so it used to be entertaining in my Subaru to have them up the clacker just before a tight corner in the wet and then go through without slackening off. I hope jimjam isn't that immature. 🙂

I'm sure I'd enjoy driving it, but there's no way that car is equal to a decent motorbike.

epicyclo

I'm sure I'd enjoy driving it, but there's no way that car is equal to a decent motorbike.

If I said that, then I take it back. But I'm pretty sure simply buying any car or bike doesn't give you skill to use it or psychic knowledge of a road you've never ridden/driven. It's impressive how partisan people are, and just how quick they are to start shouting liar or troll, or indeed that I must have been a cock.

If I start a thread in the bike forum saying how I was riding my trail bike on my local dh track and I smoked some guys on full blown dh bikes, everyone would say, give the poor guys a break, you knew the track, just cause they can afford nice stuff doesn't mean they should be able to ride etc etc etc, but because a motorbike has an engine presumably it negates the need for any skill on behalf of the rider.

Regardless of what car I'd said bikers would have scoffed. I'm guessing these same guys imagine buying a Nomad will win the EWS for them.

the bottom line is jim jam unless you drive a Mclaren F1 there's no way you overtook a gixer whilst keeping to the speed limit if the rider was even half hearted in his attempts to resist your infantile games

his attempts to resist your infantile games

Since you were there, I'll ask again, why were the bikers trying to ride through my car when there were no gaps? Surely they could see the old woman in the micra? Surely when she stopped abruptly to turn off the road they would have noticed that since they were two feet off my bumper? Why were they getting shirty and gesticulating like a group of angry Italian waiters when they squeezed past?

I'll ask again, why were the bikers trying to ride through my car when there were no gaps? Surely they could see the old woman in the micra? Surely when she stopped abruptly to turn off the road they would have noticed that since they were two feet off my bumper? Why were they getting shirty and gesticulating like a group of angry Italian waiters when they squeezed past?

I'm guessing the fact that you may drive like the arsehole you post ?

Ten pages in and all that's been confirmed is that people who think excessively powerful cars are a good idea are deluded.

So since I didn't blaze past a pensioner when it was unsafe I'm an arsehole, cock, liar and troll. 😉

So since I didn't blaze past a pensioner when it was unsafe I'm an arsehole, cock, liar and troll

No, your posts are the reason for that 🙂

Your driving I've never seen.

Experts have told me, it's of the cock school.

I dared to suggest bikes weren't "all that" since I could easily keep up with them on a road I'd driven a few thousand times. Now apparently I have to prove it to people who weren't there.

I'm no riding god (I've raced bikes a bit but only for fun - there was never any likelyhood of me winning anything) and do a lot more car miles than I do bike miles. In all the motorbiking miles I've done since passing my test and progressing beyond 125cc bikes I don't recall ever being passed by a car anywhere other than on a motorway. On the other hand I've been passed by bikes about a zillion times when I've been driving cars. I've passed bikes plenty of times when driving my car as well - but often they've been slower bikes, riders clearly not in a hurry, or bikes that were clearly being driven by less competent or less experienced riders.

That's not to say that a good driver in a quick car couldn't pass me or keep up with me on some circumstances (especially when I'm on one of my touring bikes rather than my sports bike). I came close to getting passed by a car once over the mountain on the Isle of Man TT circuit. It was a local guy in a Impreza Turbo who was just behind as we headed out of Ramsay. I'd never ridden the road before so lost ground on the slower corners as I didn't know what was beyond them, but the difference on performance on the straights was such that I always made up enough of a gap that he couldn't get close enough to pass me when he caught up on the corners. I wasn't riding what anyone would regard as a quick bike either - I was only on a CBR600. I suspect if I'd been on a Fireblade I might not even have noticed him (and if I'd done a couple of more laps of the TT circuit and therefore knew the road a little I suspect I wouldn't have noticed him either). That's all despite my being pretty sure he's a better driver than me.

Having said all that not everyone rides bikes fast all the time, so plenty of cars will have passed bikes (sometimes by very dangerous driving - I've seen quite a bit of that when car drivers seem to want to "prove themselves", or prove that bikes "aren't all that") and plenty of internet driving gods will be on telling us all about it...

In your defence, a well driven fast car is a match for a bike on some roads and in some conditions. However, very rarely is it a match for a fast bike on a decent road with a decent rider onboard. I don't find your posts ridiculous.... but I don't also put it down to the fact you know the road, they may also have ridden the road thousands of times. they just may not be particularly brilliant riders.

However,on a reasonably surfaced road, dry conditions, you should really be left for dead.

On a public road in general fast cars can't match fast bikes, on a circuit its a different story.

However,on a reasonably surfaced road, dry conditions, you should really be left for dead.

I'd agree with that, but none of that was the case in this instance. The bikes were on NI plates, it happened southern Ireland so they weren't local either. They seemed to take great umbrage at me driving like a patient, considerate cock.

I'd agree with that, but none of that was the case in this instance. The bikes were on NI plates, it happened southern Ireland so they weren't local.

So what you're saying is that you passed a tourist once, while he was pootling along enjoying the scenery...?

Yes steve. That's it exactly. Apart from how much of a cock I was about it.

The OP appears to have forgotten the point he was trying to make with this thread.

Yes it did go a bit of a tangent there.

Remind me again how fast your modern car is...

Plenty 😳

It's still not as fast as a neighbours Talbot Sunbeam though.

Remind me again how fast your modern car is...

I've been back through the posts and, primarily due to jimjam being too embarressed to say what he actually drives, I'm using the working assumption that it's a Corsa with a set of loud pipes and lowered suspension - and maybe some nice stickers...

Remind me again how fast your modern car is...

In theory my car has a slightly higher top speed than my touring motorbike.

epicsteve

I've been back through the posts and, primarily due to jimjam being too embarressed to say what he actually drives, I'm using the working assumption that it's a Corsa with a set of loud pipes and lowered suspension - and maybe some nice stickers...

Steve I'm not embarrassed at all, I didn't want to say because any car I'd have said would be instantly dismissed as useless against a bike. Despite every other factor other than power to weight beining in my favour. I also don't really want all and sundry knowing what I drive. Too late now mind.

It's still not as fast as a neighbours Talbot Sunbeam though.

A friend of mine has a Lotus Sunbeam back in the day - I've always wanted one of those and might even treat myself one day. I drove his one quite a few times and it did seem quick back then, but I suspect plenty of normal family saloons would be quicker these days.

Steve I'm not embarrassed at all, I didn't want to say because any car I'd have said would be instantly dismissed as useless against a bike. I also don't really want all and sundry knowing what I drive. Too late now mind.

No denial - so definitely a Corsa then.

epicsteve

No denial - so definitely a Corsa then.

I might have to get a corsa if my mechanic doesn't hurry up rebuilding the engine.

I also don't really want all and sundry knowing what I drive

Why ? I have a Mondeo... I don't really care if anyone knows this fact.

Unless you're giving us your postcode too I can't for the life of me imagine why you would feel you can't tell people ?

This whole thread now makes sense, now that we know the original poster has a "modified" Corsa and once passed a motorcycle that was being ridden slowly by a tourist.

weeksy

Why ? I have a Mondeo... I don't really care if anyone knows this fact.

Unless you're giving us your postcode too I can't for the life of me imagine why you would feel you can't tell people ?

Well I guess I was trying in vain to stop the debate from car x won't beat bike z. It also does feel kind of wierd. I know there are a lot of lurkers on here who know who I am, just don't want everyone knowing. I don't mean friends. I can't really spell it out without accusing one or two people of being thieves. I'm probably being over cautious.

I also don't really want all and sundry knowing what I drive

Really? Why not? You put your email address in your profile, surely that's a far more 'useful' bit of information for people!?

Sorry, but can't help but chip in here guys....

A bike isn't faster than a car, all things being equal.

If we take an example, Cadwell Park circuit has a good selection of corner types and is regarded as being one of the best circuits in the world to drive by many riders/drivers. Parts of it are like typical UK B-class road (Mountain section etc) the rest is like a very fast country A-class road.

A Radical SR8 Sports car will get round in circa 1min 22 secs (lap record)

Shayne Byrne riding his ZX-10 British Superbike race bike lapped and set a new record for bikes at 1min 26 secs

Not willie waving, but FWIW I drive a race/sports car and it has beaten fairly powerful race bikes in motorsports competition (Racing on public roads isn't clever). It's circa 450bhp/Tonne, but is only 500kg total weight, has corner weighted race suspension, limited slip diff, AP racing brakes, Pagid pads, soft compound Avon race tyres, etc, etc. The key point isn't just how fast it will accelerate, it's how fast it can brake and how well it can corner. Usually a competition sports car will easily outbrake and out-corner a bike....and on a track, or a real road, that's what matters more than raw power.

jimjam - Member
...It's impressive how partisan people are, and just how quick they are to start shouting liar or troll, or indeed that I must have been a cock.

...but because a motorbike has an engine presumably it negates the need for any skill on behalf of the rider.

No I don't think you are a cock. Just mistaken about the ability of your car versus a motorbike. The mention about the hand gestures etc suggests the guys on the bikes were cocks though.

To get a licence to ride a big bike, a rider has to go through a series of tests on smaller bikes (it may have changed).

The small bikes usually cull out the idiots, the deranged and the lesser skilled, so if someone is riding a big bike, they are likely to have a reasonable skill set to have survived on our greasy roads.

Hence it's reasonable to assume if the rider is on a big bike he/she has the necessary skills to use it because mistakes on motorbikes are often game over time.

epicyclo

No I don't think you are a cock. Just mistaken about the ability of your car versus a motorbike.

That's fine mate, I can live with that. You make very valid points.

njee20

Really? Why not?

Jesus, third degree or what!? Nutshell - I worked in a shop. I know a few people who were trying or stealing from it/general scumbags. Couldn't catch them. They work in jobs that bring them near my house. I don't want them to know my car would be worth stealing. I've taken some effort to make it look a bit plain.

One of the fastest cars I've ever been in was a friends Skip Brown modified Lotus Sunbeam. Early 90's I think. God it was brutally quick, throw you back in the seat fast. Don't think many modern standard saloons would be as quick as a standard Lotus Sunbeam. Just seen a nice HS Chevette for sale, must resist!

skydragon - Member

The key point isn't just how fast it will accelerate

Course, Jimjam [i]was[/i] talking about acceleration.

To get a licence to ride a big bike, a rider has to go through a series of tests on smaller bikes (it may have changed).

The small bikes usually cull out the idiots, the deranged and the lesser skilled, so if someone is riding a big bike, they are likely to have a reasonable skill set to have survived on our greasy roads.

Hence it's reasonable to assume if the rider is on a big bike he/she has the necessary skills to use it because mistakes on motorbikes are often game over time.

Having said that, and having outed jimjam and his car, I will wade in on the side of the car driver. I've had my share of highly-strung Jap cars, and they're very, very capable when done right. Certainly a tuned Legacy in the right hands would give a sportsbike a run for its money on the right road.

As for too powerful for UK roads? Not a chance. People are often too stupid for UK roads, but that's not the car's fault.

Well according to the bike brigade modern cars are actually too slow for UK roads.

FWIW I drive a race/sports car and it has beaten fairly powerful race bikes in motorsports competition

So essentially you're saying that a car may be faster than a bike in favourable conditions that play to the car's strengths. Which is of course true.

But the reason our JJ is getting such a mauling is, all other things aside, his assertion was that the bikes were quicker than him round corners but under his feet on the straights; the implication here being that his family estate out-performed a pair of power rangers on sports bikes. Which is, as many have pointed out, stretching credibility.

I don't doubt the veracity of the facts of the claim; I can easily believe the bikers were impatient and shakey-fist at him, and I can readily believe that he overtook them at some point. I've overtaken Porsche 911s and BMW M3s in a 1.1 Fiesta before now, it's not difficult to happen to be going faster than someone else. But if the claim is "I was racing some bikes and took them on the straights" then I respectfully posit that either they weren't particularly trying to race you or that sir's pants are on fire.

his assertion was that the bikes were quicker than him round corners but under his feet on the straights; the implication here being that his family estate out-performed a pair of power rangers on sports bikes. Which is, as many have pointed out, stretching credibility.

No Cougar, they couldn't put power to the road. I could. There were no long straights to speak of and the humps and compressions would get a bike very airbourne or indeed, smash your head off the tank if you took them too fast. Anyway, they were just tourists out for a pootle.

Ten pages in and all that's been confirmed is that people who think excessively powerful cars are a good idea are deluded.

Well they are fun to drive, so if that makes me deluded in your eyes then I'm fine with that.

Could you define "excessively powerful" again, just to remind us what YOU consider to be acceptable?

Well I'm glad I dropped out of this one. It got even worse!

Cars are interesting. Mine was worryingly noisy after I put the gearbox mechatronics back in, but now I've got round to refitting the undertray it's back to normal. Who'd have thought a big piece of plastic could make a difference to the noise?

This thread has stirred up memories of some of the things I used to do with my cars and motorbikes.

I don't think I'm fit to comment here any more. 🙂

Can I just say that I've never "had a go" at a bike or group of bikes before then or since. I usually give them a very wide berth.

Having said that, and having outed jimjam and his car, I will wade in on the side of the car driver. I've had my share of highly-strung Jap cars, and they're very, very capable when done right. Certainly a tuned Legacy in the right hands would give a sportsbike a run for its money on the right road.

All true but his assertion that he overtook them and stayed under the speed limit seems highly unlikely if they were trying or he wasnt driving like an utter bell end. I get overtaken on my bike sometimes but its usually in 30 or 40 zones or on dual track roads.

moshimonster - Member

Could you define "excessively powerful" again, just to remind us what YOU consider to be acceptable?

1bhp more than my car, obviously.

his assertion that he overtook them and stayed under the speed limit seems highly unlikely

utter bell end.

To go with cock, arsehole. Liar. Troll.

Here's a video just to add some context. This isn't the exact stretch of road, but it's not a million miles away. It should give the doubters a bit of an idea just how bad/good some of the roads are where I grew up.

If nothing else, you'll enjoy the scenery and the driving.

Out of interest whats the bhp of this legacy, and power to weight?

There were no long straights to speak of and the humps and compressions would get a bike very airbourne

Hitherto undisclosed and fairly key information, unless you said that earlier and I missed it. Apologies if so.

Well, on Saturday I had a test drive in an absolutely brilliant little car...

The BMW i3.

Very strong acceleration - and recuperative braking...!!! Lift off the throttle and your almost on your belts :-0
Only used the brakes once for the whole drive.

£2.50 for a full charge

I have seen the future 😉

tpbiker - Member

Out of interest whats the bhp of this legacy, and power to weight?

Weight would be about 1450kg maybe (took out power seats, air con, wing, splitters etc). Power is hard to say. 4x4 trans loses more power than 2wd. Previous owner had a dyno figure for the wheels but I don't know what it would be at the crank. Octane rating of the fuel has an effect too. Say 325 for the sake of argument. There's a guy near me who claims his sti impreza has 350bhp, it can keep up with that.

Or rather, could. Till the engine blew up. When I get it back it won't be in that state of tune.

Northwind - Member

moshimonster - Member

Could you define "excessively powerful" again, just to remind us what YOU consider to be acceptable?

1bhp more than my car, obviously.

N+1 Exactly the correct answer, I going with that too.

No I don't think you are a cock. Just mistaken about the ability of your car versus a motorbike. The mention about the hand gestures etc suggests the guys on the bikes were cocks though.

While that is one possible scenario I'm going to put forward another one - which is that the hand gestures from the motorcyclists were just as likely to be due to the original poster driving like a total bell-end and them feeling threatened by his actions. My theory is supported by a number of factors:
1) The increasingly unlikely details that the original poster has been coming up with the justify his tall tale of the one time he passed a motorbike and how therefore motorbikes "weren't all that"
2) The whole thinking behind his starting this thread - which was undoubtedly because he wanted to tell us how wonderful his car was and what a skilled driver he was
3) His later description of the road he was driving on (including a video to show what it was like) and on which any overtake is likely to have been dangerous unless it was done so at the urging of the car or motorbike in front

It might be better if we all just agree with him that his car is the most wonderful thing on 4-wheels and that it was F1's loss when they didn't recruit his as a driver, and that motorbikes are slow lardy things which don't deserve to share the road with him. That way we could close the thread down and he could go away happy, boasting about his exploits on Pistonheads or the like.

Will it pass an mot with that tread depth?

Didn't realise we were going to race to the MOT test centre 😀 . Now i've seen the type of [s]racetrack[/s] road you mean, i'll be borrowing a supermoto instead. Don't think i'd beat you in your turbotrollcockmobile on an unfamiliar country road but i'd enjoy it more.

P.s. How's the shoulder healing up?

Euro

P.s. How's the shoulder healing up?

Slowly but surely. Seems I'll be out for a while yet.

epicsteve
1) The increasingly unlikely details

Really, think what you like steve. The details you say are increasingly unlikely are what made me laugh when all you bikers instantly cried foul, despite having zero context. All you knew was car v bike. And you couldn't even imagine a scenario where a bike wouldn't be massively superior.

Cant watch the video at the moment but the fact the roads had no long straights and seems very narrow I'm still failing to think anything other than you were driving like a bell end and they let you past asap.

Seems I'll be out for a while yet.

Least you got stw to keep sane 😆

I'm still failing to think anything other than you were driving like a bell end

I don't think that's JJs style tbh. Local knowledge makes a huge difference on those types of roads.