Northwind - Member...And that's exactly what's led to "I'm safe because I'm doing 30, while doing my makeup...
but i'd be surprised if you couldn't see that they were up to something shonky from all the panic-braking and jerky steering.
Trackers and black boxes can also record acceleration in three dimensions. That gives a good idea of how erratic the driver is. Hard sudden braking, swerving and flying bridges show up. An eye-movement monitor could be incorporated if you are worried about someone using their phone, GPS or putting on makeup.
#I could edit in response to Northwind's edit but then Jimjam's insult wouldn't make sense so I've left this unedited#
I did a wee sneaky edit there btw so there's a bit more to my post that clarifies where I was going.
How about we just put a GPS tracker in your anus Edukator. Then we'd know where you were trolling at all times.
How about we just put a tracker in your anus Edukator.
Jimjam
FeeFoo - Member
...Anyone who thinks [s]utilitarianism[/s] an 'interesting' car is the way to a rewarding life needs shooting. (It'd be the intellectually kindest thing to do)
beautifully put 😀
Northwind - MemberWhen excessive speed contributes (not causes, contributes) to 14% of collisions but failure to look causes 40%, the solution is not more speed checking imo. Not saying it's not a good idea when viewed by itself but it's not the answer to the bigger problem.
in my humble opinion, we [s]should[/s] could just accept that people can be a bit rubbish, that they will crash into things.
so let's reduce speed limits on rural+urban roads, and enforce the hell out of them.
people will still crash, but they'll do it at a slower speed.
anyway, dinner's ready, i'm off!
[quote=molgrips ]Wow, that's not even close to what I said. Not in the least. I hope you pay more attention to your driving than your reading!
I reckon jimjam is after a prize for the most strawmen in one thread. Incidentally, despite claiming
[quote=jimjam]
Since this thread was born of misrepresented quotes in another thread it's probably not surprising.
Nothing misinterpreted about it. You just reaffirmed it.
he's yet to come up with an example to disprove my earlier suggestion that it was started with one.
I think you need to check what the definition of a straw man argument is. I don't need to pander to your pedantry.
ahwiles - Memberin my humble opinion, we should could just accept that people can be a bit rubbish, that they will crash into things.
That sounds like a ****ing terrible idea to me tbh. Do I want to be knocked off my bike by someone doing 40 or 35? Well I'd rather not be knocked off tbh. Nope, just accept it, 40 or 35.
🙄
[quote=jimjam ]Well since it's going to be hard to get performance figures for a base spec Golf I looked at the GTI again. 0-60 in the late 70's claimed at 8.1 seconds, the current golf GTI does it in 6.5 seconds. So in 30+ years that's 1.6 second decrease or a 25% increase in 0-60 performance. Less than 1% increase every year.
Whilst we're at it, what would you consider a significant increase? Exactly 1% a year, which would result in a modern Golf GTI having similar performance to a Honda NSX supercar? 1.5% a year (current 911 Carrera 4)? or 2% a year (current AM Vanquish)?
God you risk free looneys. Put on your driving gloves and flat caps its sunday tomorrow so your day.
Why do you like singletrack riding again, steady now.
I know whats right and I know whats wrong, its the bit in the middle I love FUN!
[quote=joepose ]God you risk free looneys. Put on your driving gloves and flat caps its sunday tomorrow so your day.
Why do you like singletrack riding again, steady now.
You're not the first to make that comparison. Let's see if you can work out what the difference is between having fun in a car on a public road, and having fun on a mountain bike - something lots of us hand wringers do like to do fast (I'm also a bit of a pansy at that, but I do other things which would scare most of the people who like driving fast).
The real answer is autonomous, self-driving cars.
Most people don't care about a driving/are shit at it.
So let the computer do it and you can sit and read the paper, do your makeup, have a beer or a **** - whatever.
You'd get where you're going more refreshed and faster, because once everyone was in these cars they could all sync together and drive along in convoy at higher speeds than people can be trusted at it. Similar how having a 50 mph limit on a crowded motorway gets everyone through the section quicker than if they limit was 70.
Performance cars can become like horses are now - for leisure. If you like driving you have a track day car.
In fact, I'd take it even further. You wouldn't own a car. You just lease a car service. Need to go somewhere? Fire up your phone, tell them where you want to go and how many seats you need. The nearest car appears to take you. After you get dropped off in town it goes and sits in a little car pen somewhere waiting for someone else to ping it on their phone. You could have them all stacked neatly somewhere - no need to leave a space for the doors to open. They could be electric and go back on charge when someone's not using them.
Imagine going on a big mountain biking trip. You get a car to the start and then when you get to the end say, 35 miles away - a new car comes to get you and take you home. No need to do big loops to get back to where you left your car.
aracerWhilst we're at it, what would you consider a significant increase?
I don't have a problem with progress or technological advances. I don't have an irrational fear of inanimate objects, the danger factor is the human behind the wheel. Being afraid of a car, past, present or future is pointless despite what the Daily Mail tell you to think. Manufacturers aren't going to stick an 800bhp engine in a shopping car, and even if they did they would hopefully supplement it with systems that would make it driveable.
I'm less concerned about the twonk in a powerful car, than I am the twonk in the shit car or van, driving like they are in a performance car, or the the frustrated twonk in his rep mobile who's just decided he's had enough of sitting in a queue of traffic and is going to chance an overtake.
yourguitarhero
because once everyone was in these cars they could all sync together and drive along in convoy at higher speeds than people can be trusted at it. Similar how having a 50 mph limit on a crowded motorway gets everyone through the section quicker than if they limit was 70.
Have you ever tried to sync your phone to your computer? Imagine trying to sync a Ford to a Toyota? Sounds like a recipe for death on a stick.
FeeFoo - Member
...Anyone who thinks utilitarianism an 'interesting' car is the way to a rewarding life needs shooting. (It'd be the intellectually kindest thing to do)
beautifully put
It's as beautifully put as, "no, you are!" Well done.
If you're happy in your modest car, good luck to ya. Some of us prefer summink a bit more fun, that's all.
Not too hard to understand, is it?
Have you ever tried to sync your phone to your computer? Imagine trying to sync a Ford to a Toyota? Sounds like a recipe for death on a stick.
Make sure things are engineered to aviation standards or whatever.
It won't be perfect. There will still be crashes.
But there will be a lot less than there are now.
[quote=jimjam ]I don't have a problem with progress or technological advances.
Yet you do have a problem with people writing "modern cars are too powerful"! Despite the fact that nobody has written that (in the way clearly implied by your OP) before this thread, and despite the premise in the OP that modern cars aren't any faster being wrong. Though of course pointing that out is pedantry.
[quote=FeeFoo ]Some of us prefer summink a bit more fun, that's all.
Not too hard to understand, is it?
No, I don't think anybody is having a problem understanding that some people like having fun in cars on public roads.
jimjam - Member
Sounds like we need to ban any bike over 25cc.
It would make sense.
But first they would have to catch us...
Shouldn't be a problem, having the police waiting outside A&E should catch quite a few 😉
It's a bit like skiers. Good skiers ski faster and have less accidents than poor skiers skiing slowly
That's certainly true and you could probably say the same thing for mountain bikers too. I'm a lot better at skiing than I am at mountain biking and rarely crash while skiing despite going a lot faster (in relative terms) than I do on my bike. I've crashed on the bike numerous times despite being relatively slow. I'm simply not as good at it and have less experience.
As for driving, I haven't crashed in 30 years despite having access to lots of powerful cars and covering maybe 600,000 miles. Make of that what you will. Maybe I'm just not driving fast enough or could do with another couple of hundred horsepower?
One thing is for sure, car's would be seriously boring if some people on here had their way.
Bikers don't need a chip on their shoulder. They have have the only vehicles capable of being driven properly fast on interesting roads.
This is a good perspective on bike v car
http://www.pistonheads.com/news/default.asp?storyId=25255
The gist is that cars are much easier to drive fast than bikes and with much less risk too. Only time I've ever had a bike come past me in a quick car is in a straight-line on the motorway. When it comes to "interesting" roads very few bikers have either the skill or balls to keep up with a quick modern car, let alone pass it.
The car versus bike thing is an odd one, ultimately the fastest car is quicker than the fastest bike...
....but your chances of encountering a Zonda, Veyron, Enzo etc on the road are slim, they are very expensive and quite rare.
Fast motorbikes are common as muck though...and cheap.
In all my years of riding bikes I've never 'played' with a car driver and come off second best...I'm no riding God either, I ride in jeans so don't do the hanging off, crazy lean angles thing.
Most people consider a quick car to be something like an Impreza, an M3 etc and most drivers can't get the most out of these cars... even a well driven example is easy enough to sit behind until the next straight and then a bike is past in the blink of an eye.
Remember you're talking about machines with a 0-60 of 3 secs, 0-100 in 6 secs, 0-150 in 10 secs and a 10 second 1/4 mile....with Japanese reliability, cheap road tax, 40mpg and a brand new price usually cheaper than most small hatchbacks.... bikes are awesome and the ability to filter through traffic adds a 'real world' example of why a bike is usually faster in everyday situations.
"Have you checked the sales figures? The Horribly powerful Golf R sold about 1000 units in four years. I can't find an exact figure for total numbers of Golfs sold in the same time period but it'll be in the hundreds of thousands. People obsess about scary cars and get their knickers in a twist because faster cars make better newspaper articles and tv programmes."
There's going to be more Golf R's around due to the cheap leases £240 a month. I've ordered one mainly to hand the M Sport/ S Line diesel boys and the fat RRS/Q7/X5 boys their arse when they get too big for their boots.
I ride a slow bike, can still get from A to B faster than any car in the cluttered south of england. This despite cars often coming past me on dual track roads, they soon get stuck behind a car struggling to do 50 in a national.
Deviant - cracking post at the top of the previous page.
Northwind - MemberThat sounds like a ****ing terrible idea to me tbh. Do I want to be knocked off my bike by someone doing 40 or 35? Well I'd rather not be knocked off tbh. Nope, just accept it, 40 or 35.
nicely put, and i agree with you, it would be a little like admitting defeat.
but it (lower and stricter limits) would be easy to implement. Achieving a world where no-one crashes is a bit harder.
i'm off out on my road bike in a bit, i'd rather the people who might drive into me were doing 40 or less, than 'whatever they feel like' - which is the case at the moment.
+1 for Deviant
Nice to hear the view from the sharp end.
TBH I've reached the conclusion that we've lost the plot on driving and gone mad with stupid road layouts/roundabouts/speed cameras all the supposed safety features when in fact we should be looking at making drivers more capable at driving and more aware of what they are doing and the consequences of their actions.
In all my years of riding bikes I've never 'played' with a car driver and come off second best...I'm no riding God either, I ride in jeans so don't do the hanging off, crazy lean angles thing.
Well tbh I always cut MC'ers some slack as they don't come off the best if it goes pete tong.
No, I don't think anybody is having a problem understanding that some people like having fun in cars on public roads.
I'm guessing the subtext to this is, "don't have fun on public roads".
I think it's the definition of fun you may be having a problem understanding.
In all my years of riding bikes I've never 'played' with a car driver and come off second best
Well good for you but I hope you stay alive. It's thanks to reckless motor bike riders who keep killing themselves that most of the good driving roads in the peaks are now limited to 50mph with average speed cameras everywhere. Effectively it's spoiled the road for people like me who like a good swift drive but without going mental.
So Daveky you've ordered a Golf R to hand other drivers their arse's?
I'm an advocate of fast cars, swift driving, making progress, having fun and driving as quickly as conditions will allow (with a good margin for error or other drivers error) but I can't condone racing on a public road. Along with the biker above it's this sort of behaviour that gives a bad name for all people who often drive quicker than the posted limit and could eventually lead to speed limits being reduced for all of us once the PC and Health and Safety brigade get their teeth into the problem.
deviant - MemberThe car versus bike thing is an odd one, ultimately the fastest car is quicker than the fastest bike...
....but your chances of encountering a Zonda, Veyron, Enzo etc on the road are slim, they are very expensive and quite rare.
Fast motorbikes are common as muck though...and cheap.In all my years of riding bikes I've never 'played' with a car driver and come off second best...I'm no riding God either, I ride in jeans so don't do the hanging off, crazy lean angles thing.
Most people consider a quick car to be something like an Impreza, an M3 etc and most drivers can't get the most out of these cars... even a well driven example is easy enough to sit behind until the next straight and then a bike is past in the blink of an eye.
A few points come to mind. First off, whilst something like a Panigale might have the power to weight ratio of a hypercar it's through one driven wheel. Trying to hustle something like an Agera R along a back road would be hard enough, never mind if it had half the grip or twice the power again.
Any rider who's talented enough to exploit a bike like that will more than likely be transporting it around in the back of van to race tracks or road circuits. Put Mr. Midlife Crisis weekend rider on a Panigale or a Ninja H2 and ask him to keep up with a STI, GTR or Carrera 4s on a mountain road and he's gonna drop it sharpish. Throw in a skiff of rain and forget it, well the biker won't even have left the house so it's not really an issue.
[quote=FeeFoo ]I'm guessing the subtext to this is, "don't have fun on public roads".
I think it's the definition of fun you may be having a problem understanding.
Plenty of examples on here (quite a few just on this page) where "fun" clearly involves driving fast.
But why don't you give us yours?
[quote=moshimonster ] When it comes to "interesting" roads very few bikers have either the skill or balls to keep up with a quick modern car, let alone pass it.
It's strange that you talk about bikers (i.e. the human element) but cars (the mechanical element) as if all car drivers have consomethinge driving skills.
Put Mr. Midlife Crisis weekend rider on a Panigale or a Ninja H2 and ask him to keep up with a STI, GTR or Carrera 4s on a mountain road and he's gonna drop it sharpis
Bollocks a halfway quick bike would easy keep up with those cars on a mountain road unless the car driver was going crazy and having no regard for other road users. Keeping it sensible whilst going pretty quick is easy on a bike in comparison to a car. The would have easy enough poke between 0-70 mph to keep up.
Not in my experience.
Have you ridden bikes much?
Which mountain roads have you flown down/up in a manner to quick for a sports bike to keep up? What were you driving?
Let's just say after a very cheeky overtake (I had slowed to let an old lady in a micra turn off the road) and some choice hand gestures I caught and re passed a Ninja ZX, GSXR-1000 and a KTM 950 supermoto. All within the speed limit on a winding country road. You won't know the road unless you're familiar with Co. Donegal?
Hero! No way would any car pass those bikes within the speed limit if they were trying. Maybe they just thought you were a cock and let you get past before you killed them.
Plenty of examples on here (quite a few just on this page) where "fun" clearly involves driving fast.
But why don't you give us yours?
I already did a few pages back.
A bit of overtaking, a bit of pointless accelerating, etc.
Not necessary, not making up time, just for the fun of it. I know there are people who I've overtaken, who are one or two cars back at the next set of lights or roundabout smugly saying to themselves, "humph, didn't get you very far did it?".
They miss the point. Do you?
Caught and passed a GSXR thou' [i]within the speed limit[/i]?
For a race to be a race both parties need to know that it's a race 🙂
Jimjam do you drive a Veyron?
anagallis_arvensisMaybe they just thought you were a cock and let you get past before you killed them.
Yeah. I was being the cock, politely waiting for an elderly woman to make her way along at her pace while three bikes with race cans swarm around the back of me. They were on their way back from a bike show, acting like ****s.
Hero! No way would any car pass those bikes within the speed limit if they were trying.
The road was greasy. Even full blown WRC cars struggle to top 120mph on it in the dry so breaking the speed limit on it in a normal road car is difficult. You might hit 80 for a split second before you'd be one the brakes. I was surprised at how quick they were through the corners but as soon as the corners opened up the car had them. It was easy to pass them since their collective balls shriveled pretty quickly.
anagallis_arvensisJimjam do you drive a Veyron?
No, just a bland looking family estate car. Most people don't even know what brand it is, no badges, no stickers. No outward signs that would lead anyone to suspect anything.
So now we have Jimjam and Daveky clearly stating they race on public roads.
On narrow, winding roads bikes are quicker:
[url= http://www.motorcyclenews.com/news/2011/july/jul2111-isle-of-man-tt-subaru-impreza/ ]Bike versus car Manx[/url]
When cycling I'm rarely if ever put in danger by bikers despite having a home on one of their favourite peg-grinding roads.
EdukatorOn narrow, winding roads bikes are quicker:
Bike versus car Manx
So a near stock, and relatively ordinary road car against works bikes?
Now check out the stage times and average speeds for group n and full works Subarus; a bit quicker but still in the same ball park. The bike is 16mph faster around the Manx circuit, that is an enormous difference.
