Can someone explain to me how giving tax breaks to a very small minority will produce growth? I understand that subsidies to businesses via reducing regulations and passing the associated hidden costs such as pollution, environmental costs and reduced employment rights over to the general population may seem like it produces growth. But the tax cuts will do diddly squat for 99% of people.
It’ll improve some figures for about a year. Nothing sustainable. Or meaningful
The stamp duty thing is utter lunacy.
Average house prices went up by 15% last year, so the last part of the economy that needs any kind of stimulus is the housing market, particularly when rampant inflation is the major issue
Still… all the better for those with capital to more cheaply acquire yet more properties for our rentier economy
They’ve really given up even the slightest pretence that they give a toss about anyone other than the very richest
We’re used to that (Tories be Toryin’), but all this latest stuff is the economics of the madhouse
On top of all their Brexit shit, and the likely trade war she’s about to start with the EU, this really is going to be full on Disaster Capitalism
We’re now the European equivalent of Pinochet’s Chile. An economic experiment
What I don’t get is how few people this will help,
They would claim that the boom which this will stimulate will benefit a lot of people, for which the nation will be grateful.
If it doesn't pan out that way no big deal Labour can sort it out.
Can someone explain to me how giving tax breaks to a very small minority will produce growth?
More money slushing around stimulants economic activity? Although it's much more effective giving the extra money to poor people who aren't spending because they don't have money.
Is there anyone who actually believes that giving tax breaks to the rich actually generates economic growth?
I sort of know some people who would be classified as rich or the very rich, as you say it’s not going to generate growth, it’s a drop in the ocean to them. Their spending hasn’t contracted or changed recently and there’s only so much one can buy / spend. Minor tax breaks may make them happy as they all seem to never have enough money but they won’t be spending more
No onvention thid time Ernie but you have previou🤣
Kwerteng. I linked to a Grauniad piece earlier and its that cabal of far right loons erg brittania unchained Atlantic bridge lot.
You dont think.he is where he is on merit do you?
What he hopes to achieve is obvious. Its all laid out in that book. Enrich thebrich and turn us into a sweat shop and tax haven forvwhich he hopes to be personally rewarded
You dont think.he is where he is on merit do you?
Oh are we back to the "all Tory politicians are useless moronic idiots" argument?
Not on merit? Is it coz he's black?
Take yourself over to Wikipedia and have a look at Kwertang's academic achievements, it is frankly staggering, including king's scholar and Kennedy scholarship.
You can be clever and wrong in the same way you can be from a minority and shit on minorities. it's not that difficult.
Differnt sorts of intelligence remember. Its not a difficult concept.
and anyway i didn't say that he was thick. I asked if you thought he was there on merit. His adherence to failed dogma hardly shows clarity of thought unless you accept he is lying thrunhis teeth about what he is doing.
He is there because it suits thev agenda of those who put him there.
This is just their opening gambit, wait until their full raft of deregulation gets pushed through over the next couple of years as they know full well there is zero chance of getting back into #10 so it’s gloves off as far as they are concerned.
I am beginning to wonder if Liz Truss is a Lib Dem plant in deep cover and is working from the inside to bring down the tories for a long time.
One can only hope.
We don’t really have a government at all
They’ve outsourced all policy making to right wing thinktanks.
They’re now just the PR people who get to present it. They’re even shit at that
him saying that public sector pay rises will worsen inflation, and asks why giving a large tax cut to top earners is different.
I think one of the major headaches that this mini budget will cause the government is that it will greatly increase the likelihood of employees voting for strike action in pursuit of higher wages.
The government is going to struggle to argue that increased incomes will be bad for the economy but not if people are already wealthy.
It is also likely to greatly increase public support for strikers, which is something that they really can't afford to happen, as the economic injustice of Tory philosophy is laid bare.
It is also likely to further increase trade union membership, which is currently increasing anyway:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-60912464.amp
Union membership in the UK rose by 118,000 to 6.6 million in 2020, the fourth year in a row that it increased.
Although the Tories are on the case with further restrictions on trade unions planned.
2023, somewhere in The North.
There's a certain sort of tory that would be delighted to have more strike action- it gives them an enemy to shout about, an excuse to try and push through more draconian laws, and they can blame it on labour
Not if there is huge public support and sympathy for the strikes imo. That would strongly work against the Tories. And even before this budget which rewards the rich for being rich there was growing public support for strikes in pursuit of better wages.
Edit: It was Barber’s boom of 1972-73 caused by tax cuts which led to an economic downturn, ensuing strikes and industrial action, and a Tory government finally calling an early general election in which voters were asked "who runs the country, the government or the trade unions?". The answer that came back was "not you" and the Tories lost the general election.
Teachers, nurses, firefighters… whoever, there is a big enough proportion of the public who can be turned against them if they strike. We’ve seen it time and time again, depressingly.
Occupy parliament movement?
Chaos with Ed Milliband
*deleted post
Out of curiosity, has the change requiring working pensioners to make NI contributions also been reversed?
So, after all the shit that everyones done to comply with the IR35 rules, they're now going to scrap it all, right?
I think we can assume that this isn't for the benefit of self-employed people like me - nothing they do ever is - but to re-instigate the loopholes that a tiny percentage of high earners were using to game the system and pay a lot less tax?
Theres a pattern emerging here...
I think we can assume that this isn’t for the benefit of self-employed people like me – nothing they do ever is – but to re-instigate the loopholes that a tiny percentage of high earners were using to game the system and pay a lot less tax?
Like Truss's new Chief of Staff, perhaps?
The corruption is so normalised now that it scarcely merits a mention.
Kwarteng on the 2008 budget:
The idea is that rich people will spend this extra cash in the economy (maybe even giving it to poor people) eg buying a new car, sofa, whatever. Therefore poor people benefit by being patronised...
It is very short-term and risky, as the government is not controlling that spending, and many other factors affect it. We’ve seen that already, with the £ dropping in value and the BofE threatening to raise rates again.
Essentially, they are repaying the minority of people who elected them.
I don’t this tactic will be enough to win a general election. It’s more likely to solidify opposition.
All labour need are numbers at the ballot box and it’s ‘all change’ at the next stop!
wonder how many favours are being called in today.... all those toady school chums being called or smoozed @ the club and who though being a tory minister was an easy job ;), please please please don't sell pounds tomorrow morning or will they let the BOE splash the cash to defemd it and let ol' Geogie boy go for the jugular again, and earn himself another few billion of our money in the process ?
Well, the Tory idiom of “letting the market decide” might come unstuck not that the international money men sniff an opportunity by shorting the pound, the drop in value means that most peoples’ tax cuts have been eliminated by increases in the cost of gas and petrol before emergency interest rates rises this week making everyones’ mortgages and loans go up too. The MSM are going to have to go into overdrive to try and spin this as a good thing.
Good points DB, you should be awarded a King's scholarship, double first and a PhD at the very least and ofcourse 'letting the market decide' simply means we accept no responsibility for how we've ****** up so many people's lives.
Was in Billy Budd's the other night, big group of 30-odd yo men came in (youthful tonsures, skinny jeans, raucous laugh at anything/everything) and when the football came on they joined in with 'God save the king'. Blimey O'Reilly, they really have been played.
The idea is that rich people will spend this extra cash in the economy (maybe even giving it to poor people) eg buying a new car, sofa, whatever
It’s about as credible as their suggestion that the corporate welfare being dished out will be spent on staff training and investment in equipment to improve productivity
Yeah, right…
Anyone capable of forming a coherent sentence knows they won’t be spending a single on penny on that shit! Instead, it’ll just be doled out to themselves in massive (and now unrestricted) self-awarded bonuses and increased dividends
Ker-****ing-ching! Snouts in the trough boys! Like the banking crash never happened! It’s the 80’s again and the taxpayer is picking up the tab
Even my lifelong Tory parent described it as "beyond bonkers".
This want in the manifesto. How can governments do something so risky and potentially damaging without mandate from the majority?
Even my lifelong Tory parent described it as “beyond bonkers”.
Yes, I am beginning to think that they have already buggered the Truss govt up beyond repair.
A few people mentioned petrol prices on Friday.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2022/09/24/slump-pound-hits-drivers-higher-petrol-costs/
The AA calculated that the price of petrol at UK forecourts would be “at least” 9p per litre cheaper if the pound had maintained its mid-February value of 1.35 US dollars, instead of $1.14, which it was last week, a 37-year low.
The difference in pump prices has added around £4.95 to the cost of filling up a typical 55-litre family car, the AA said.
The pound dropped further on Friday, to $1.09, which will further hit the price of petrol on forecourts.
Luke Bosdet, from the AA, said: “The influence of the exchange rate is often overlooked when drivers compare oil price movements with those at the pump.
“At the moment, it is critical. Oil and fuel on commodity markets are traded in dollars, which makes the weaker pound very bad news for motorists.
“The price of oil is back to the level at the start of the Ukraine war but petrol is 15p a litre more expensive.
“Two-thirds of that higher cost is down to the weakness of the pound.”
Off course, this applies to so many other things as well, it’s not unique to oil/petrol.
Now, will we see a small bounce in the value of sterling in the morning? You’d have thought so. It won’t climb much though, after the government so throughly “talked the economy down” last week.
Bounce down... hit 1.03 before "recovering" to 1.05
I assume its a run on the pound..
Now, will we see a small bounce in the value of sterling in the morning? You’d have thought so. It won’t climb much though, after the government so throughly “talked the economy down” last week
Oops..........
I'm expecting a full-on run on Sterling when the European markets open up this morning. The key is whether it gains so much momentum we are screwed or whether it settles around parity with the dollar.
I'm going to try and avoid reading the news this morning as I fear it may be too depressing.
1.035 now. European markets not open yet.
Ernie. Do you still think Kwerteng is supersmart and there on merit? He clearly has made a huge blunder here. Or is he deficient in some some forms of intelligence?
He seems to me to have avoided all experience and context to insist that what he would like to be right must be right and his behaviour at the queens funeral shows a huhe lack of emotioal intelligence.
Acedemic excellence is a very narrow measure of intelligence. The ability to convince himself that what he wants to be right is right and his inability to apply past experience to current situations shows a rigid way of thinking and poor synthesis in thinking.
his inability to apply past experience to current situations shows a rigid way of thinking and poor synthesis in thinking.
Or maybe he knew this might happen and doesn't give a shit. Still at least my American cousins might come and visit. I would prefer to go and see them but well......
Is the plan to run the country into the ground, call a snap election, leave Labour to try and rescue it and then claim its all the fault of the Labour government?
Cos it's ****ing working. $1.04 at one point last night
See what's happening now (particularly in the USA) is they're swapping that inflation for expensive money.
Mortgage rates are shooting up in the US (ahead of us) and we will likely follow. So there's plenty of juicy asset money to be made in the US. The defaults are going to come though.
That's because the central banks are not in control of this type of inflation.
They would have been better leaving interest rates alone but they wanted to dump the solution on consumers and crush demand.
Either way consumer pays. Meanwhile the shorters are having a great time with GBP/USD - this is what capitalism looks like in an under invested country.
Lol I've got a holiday booked to the US in a couple of months but given it was expensive to go anyway I can hardly complain.
Looking at the charts I can see a big swing coming from the GBP/USD at some point - drops like this don't normally last forever as there's money to be made in the other direction if the bulls take hold. But who knows -economies are getting trashed money as is swished around between speculators.
Engineered recession and reset has always been on the cards. Somebody is doing very well out of shorting.
Cos it’s **** working. $1.04 at one point last night
And unfortunately the solution will possibly be more expensive rate hikes for the rest of us.
Consumers are utterly at the mercy of the markets and those that control them.
We do not win.
Global recession for sure. I'd be making a case for massive investment in our own workforce now if I were them. I mean it's 20 years too late but hey!
And unfortunately the solution will possibly be more expensive rate hikes for the rest of us
Looks like the B of E are already talking a full percentage point rise already
No doubt the governments response to that will be to give more borrowed money to rich people and find another way to further inflate the housing market
And unfortunately the solution will possibly be more expensive rate hikes for the rest of us.
The problem is no one learns from history. Interest rates were ridiculously low for so long no one seems to have grasped that at some points they'd increase, and now they are at what are still historically low rates, we are absolutely ****ed.
