[Closed] Maybe I’m just being a bit sensitive but a poppy on a weapon? Isn’t that a bit..

mattsccm - Member
Can't think of any group more entitled to remember than the military.

The families.

Which is why I wear a poppy.

Being older than most people here I have a long list of granduncles and family killed in WW1 and of my parent's generation in WW2. Both G/fathers destroyed by WW1 - one from side effects from gassing several years after, the other from what's now PTSD.

I remember both the dead, the maimed, and also the bastards who profited by sending them into hell.

Can't understand how a simple act of rememberance creates annual angst although this year seemed a bit calmer fortunately

That "angst" is people thinking about the meaning of the poppy, thinking about the lives it represents and coming to their own conclusions about how they wish to remember them. If you think that unthinking acquiescence would be preferable then I think that's rather a shame.

I wore poppy for few years largely because my Jewish colleague wears one every year but he then asked me to do the same.

Nowadays I wear one when I feel like or if I am in the mood of wearing one.

Occasionally I kind of thought of the death but sometimes I thought all the dead got away too easily through death. Dying is easy it is living that is hard.

No it is simple. It's a day of remembrance. Who you choose to remember is your choice, no one is going to stop you.

Exactly,

yes, it's linked to the RBL. The earth's round.....so what?

TO THE MEMORY OF THE FALLEN AND THE FUTURE OF THE LIVING

Your Royal British Legion poppy helps us to provide thousands of modern veterans, Service men, women and their families with vital advice and support. This year don't just wear a poppy for the memory of the fallen, wear it for the future of the living.

If that's so offensive (?) ignore it, or give money to another charity that looks after other countries' veterans. Ironically, you have the free choice to do just that....hmmm....

That "angst" is people thinking about the meaning of the poppy, thinking about the lives it represents and coming to their own conclusions about how they wish to remember them.

Exactly, that is the situation.

If you think that unthinking acquiescence would be preferable then I think that's rather a shame.

Who is thinking that? The sheep?

Hmm, lot of people here conflating remembrance with the poppy appeal.

Not the same thing, never were, completley different origins with different purposes (the work of the RBL still unfortunately being of relevance today)

yes completely different expect the poppy is sold by the RBL and they get the money from it but yes apart fromt that not the same thing.

The two have merged due to what the RBL has done so its not really surprising folk conflate the two - the money raised being used to help ex service personnel and their families to retrain and for various other reasons

https://www.civvystreet.org/

See if you can guess what logo they[RBL] use without clicking!

ISTR that when father-in-law was terminally ill, the RBL were quick to offer help. He died with scars from Arnhem, mental and physical, that he never talked about. That's the third reason, it too is harder to talk about.

[i]The more people who do take time to remember the less chance we have of repeating such horrors.[/i]

If only that were true, we have been continually at war since the end of WW2, even today our defence minister is holding power point presentations to reluctant MP to get them to vote to drop bombs on people in Syria.

Perhaps even by that Tornado with the pretty poppies on it....

ninfan - Member

Hmm, lot of people here conflating remembrance with the poppy appeal.

Yup- the thread's about the poppy appeal, not about remembrance in general.

grum - Member

I'm not really talking about what the legion does with the money, I'm talking about what the poppy symbolises in the media/public consciousness.

Some people get it wrong, I know, but it remains that the poppy appeal is not just about the world wars. In fact these days, it's mostly about modern wars.

See if you can guess what logo they[RBL] use without clicking!

Err, thats my point - the Poppy appeal has always been run by the RBL group of charities, largely set up out of the failure of government to look after injured servicemen and the families of those lost, as relevant now as ever before.

The act of remembrance is a national one that predates both the poppy appeal and the RBL

THM - who do you think you are to dictate how people should feel about the poppy?

The more people who do take time to remember the less chance we have of repeating such horrors

I'd argue the opposite. In our national media it has largely become a jingoistic patriotism competition in which we are made to feel guilty if we don't 'support our brave boys' and by extension whatever possibly illegal/immoral military endeavour we are currently involved in. Just look at the fury directed at Jeremy Corbyn for not wearing one.

I have also recently seen revisionist attempts by the right to 'rebrand' the First World War as a noble cause. It's all part of the same propaganda.

I might wear a white one if I can find it.

Radio 4 is quite interesting on the subject at the moment

All sane people have considered that the remembrance service is too militaristic since the 1930s, and the poppy is a symbol of rememberance and of the associated militarism

Grum, no idea what you are taking about. As I have said, there is no need for all the froth. People can do what they want. You can make you gesture of a white poppy if you want to - good luck to you, hope it makes you feel good.

It's a simple time of remembrance combined with an opportunity for the RBL to raise money for a good cause. Mark it as you see fit. As I said, go to Starbucks if you need some froth.

As for the propaganda poppycock - we have become much, much more discerning and critical in how we look at history and the wars in particular. Less and less of a noble cause, more and more of a pitiful waste of lives. That's a good thing.

War is a horrible, horrible thing.

a noble cause.

Helping protect France and Belgium from invasion by Germany wasn't a noble cause?

Gove would be proud of that simplistic notion of the causes of WW1 Ninfan

no need for all the froth

simplistic notion of the causes of WW1

Ok, fine, maybe you could explain to me which of the 'causes' of WW1 necessitated the invasion of France and Belgium by Germany?

Pretty much WW1 was about Kaiser Bill feeling inferior and emasculated because of his withered arm and a need to prove himself more powerful than his British (Okay of German extraction, but you know what I mean.) cousins.

Ok, fine, maybe you could explain to me which of the 'causes' of WW1 necessitated the invasion of France and Belgium by Germany?

Probably better you debate the great "withered arm" theory of WW1 with the informed poster above then explain WW2 in terms of the number of testicles of Hitler whilst ignoring facts

TBH I've never really thought about the Poppy and it's meaning until I read this post.
I live in Qingdao, China, so buying isn't an option.
If I was in Beijing though, I can (Embassy is there, and they sell them (or used to))
But, the points raised on this thread, reminded me of story sometime ago.
[url= http://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/2010/nov/10/david-cameron-poppy-china-michael-white ]http://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/2010/nov/10/david-cameron-poppy-china-michael-white[/url]
The Poppy, isn't just for the British who died (maybe depending on your point of view)

Hmm, lot of people here conflating remembrance with the poppy appeal.

It's rather difficult not to as the two have become so intertwined. Which is one of the reasons we have disagreement over it.

Probably better you debate the great "withered arm" theory of WW1 with the informed poster above then explain WW2 in terms of the number of testicles of Hitler whilst ignoring facts

Was being a little flippant Junky. No twisting of others knickers was intended. 🙁

Whilst not being as informed as others on here in terms of the detailed causality of the First World War - I am a little more informed than my flippancy would indicate. As for the Second World War being caused by n-1 in Hitlers scrotum... 🙂 It's satisfying if not compelling!

You can make you gesture of a white poppy if you want to - good luck to you, hope it makes you feel good.

Oh **** off you patronising ****.

As I said, go to Starbucks if you need some froth.

If you want froth, buy a bloody cappuccino

Hilarious. So hilarious you made the same 'joke' twice.

Why don't you go and tell 91-year-old war veteran Harry Leslie Smith there's no need for all his 'frothing'?

OVER THE LAST 10 years the sepia tone of November has become blood-soaked with paper poppies festooning the lapels of our politicians, newsreaders and business leaders. The most fortunate in our society have turned the solemnity of remembrance for fallen soldiers in ancient wars into a justification for our most recent armed conflicts.

The American civil war's General Sherman once said that "war is hell", but unfortunately today's politicians in Britain use past wars to bolster our flagging belief in national austerity or to compel us to surrender our rights as citizens, in the name of the public good.

Oh * off you patronising *.

If you're going to start replying to THM's posts with that you'll soon need a new asterisk key.

As for the propaganda poppycock - we have become much, much more discerning and critical in how we look at history and the wars in particular. Less and less of a noble cause, more and more of a pitiful waste of lives. That's a good thing.

War is a horrible, horrible thing.

Can't see much sign of this.

The poppyfest at this time of year does the exact opposite of what you say. It rebrands war as something heroic, noble and kind of spiritual.

The language constantly used deliberately removes the brutal reality of war. People didn't die, they 'fell' or were 'lost' or made the 'ultimate sacrifice'.

Any soldier who is injured in war is automatically a hero - even if they aren't. They are idolised by the media and the establishment.

It's daft. It's doing the complete opposite of what you claim.

I refuse as I really object to the #PoppyFascism thing which comes hand in hand with the whole thing.

This is how I feel about it. The feeling that you are being disrespectful to something by choosing not to commemorate it doesn't sit well. If I were campaigning against the military/war veterans/Britain in general, then that's one thing, but not wearing a poppy is not wearing a poppy, not this.

My family is Catholic Northern Irish and so I would have a perfectly good reason for not wearing one if socially forced to - eg news reader, sports person, etc.

However, the reason I don't wear one is because people DO feel socially compelled to. It's gone too far, it's gone against free choice, and it's put me off.

The absolute human cost of war has massively decreased over the last half century, whilst this is of absolutely no comfort to those effected by it still, it does mean we as a race have learnt and continue to learn our lessons. The human cost of learning these lessons for us particularly but many other European nations, has been to our generations unimaginable. Remembrance is simply a recognition of the lessons learnt and an act of thanks to those who had the misfortune to have been taught them.

Remembrance is simply a recognition of the lessons learnt and an act of thanks to those who had the misfortune to have been taught them.

Except it's not. That's what it [i]should[/i] be.

The absolute human cost of war has massively decreased over the last half century, whilst this is of absolutely no comfort to those effected by it still, it does mean we as a race have learnt and continue to learn our lessons. The human cost of learning these lessons for us particularly but many other European nations, has been to our generations unimaginable. Remembrance is simply a recognition of the lessons learnt and an act of thanks to those who had the misfortune to have been taught them.

Maybe for the people with the technological superiority, the rest are far less fortunate and unfortunately they are often on the receiving end of our 'advancements'. In fact we have just refined what was started 75 odd years ago, theres very little difference in application between a drone and a V1.

Homs, Berlin, what's the difference really?

However, the reason I don't wear one is because people DO feel socially compelled to. It's gone too far, it's gone against free choice, and it's put me off.

You have exercised your free choice and chosen not to wear a poppy. Free choice lives on...Doesnt it?

I walked passed poppy sellers every day without wearing a poppy this week. No one accosted me, no one abused me. They allowed me to exercise my own free choice too. So I donated to RBL but didn't wear a poppy (actually because I forgot). There was no social pressure applied in any way. Ditto today, I am free to go to a service, go for a walk, ride my bike at 11:00 whatever.

On the 11th, there will be an "opportunity" for anyone at work to gather for a moments silence at 11:00. Again no compulsion - merely the choice and a simple act of remembrance.

There was no social pressure applied in any way. Ditto today, I am free to go to a service, go for a walk, ride my bike at 11:00 whatever.

On the 11th, there will be an "opportunity" for anyone at work to gather for a moments silence at 11:00. Again no compulsion - merely the choice and a simple act of remembrance.

Excellent choose to not observe the silence and go about your business asking folk and acting as normal

Let us know if there is any social pressure applied to you or folk just act a they would if you did thi 5 minutes later or earlier

Complex.

Do I want to remember the dead? Yes. But All the dead.
Would I prefer it if the whole poppy thing had become less socially obligatory and therefore no longer a mark of genuine thought about the fallen? Again - yes.
But the poppies around the ToL last year were one of the most moving things I have seen.
But perhaps the poppy imagery and links to the RBL add a parochial jingoistic element to remembrance?

But I am with the OP. On that plane it's wrong.

Poppy on an armed forces plane to remind us about the scarifices of the armed forces doesn't seem wrong in my opinion. Perhaps current members of the armed forces shouldn't be allowed to promote the poppy.

You lot think too much ... You either wear one or you don't. Simple.
I wear one if I feel like and I don't wear one if I don't feel like, not because I don't respect the dead but because I am in the wrong mood of the day.

Last few years I wore one but this year I have not as I was just not in the mood.

🙄

You lot think too much ... You either wear one or you don't. Simple.

Shh, chewkw, shh.... 😀

You lot think too much

Steady now chewk and THM think we should not think about this. Granted it has taken 4 pages of them thinking* and commenting on this to decide that but who am I to argue that we should just act without thinking

Junkyard - lazarus

Steady now chewk and THM think we should not think about this. Granted it has taken 4 pages of them thinking* and commenting on this to decide that but who am I to argue that we should just act without thinking

Few days ago I think I saw a clip of Barbara Windsor (think somewhere on the interweb) commented on those people who didn't wear poppy, she basically said " ... they can better sod off ..." something like that. Why is she important?

To be honest I think people should just simply relax as we all respect the dead.

No need to go high horse nor go about disrespecting like stamping on the poppy ...

If you are in the mood of wearing one then wear one otherwise as you are.

Are some folk genuinely trying to assert that there is no pressure to conform to the poppy-wearing rule?

Walk down your high street, go to the pub, sit on a train. Try to work out what percentage of the average population was wearing a poppy.

Now switch on the TV and watch the news, sports etc. What percentage of presenters are wearing a poppy?

The ones that annoy me tend to be those that ...

1. Insist on others to wear one.

2. The one openly disrespecting others who wear one.

I rather like to put them in a tiny room to see how they deal with each others.

Well the Beeb seemed to get the mood right - just caught the edited coverage of the Cenotaph

Dimbelby concluded along the lines - "its not the glory but the horror of war that we are remembering - lest we forget"

Well said that man!

But did Corbyn bow enough?

Dimbelby concluded along the lines - "its not the glory but the horror of war that we are remembering - lest we forget"

So I'd imagine they didn't forget to have plents of groups representing the main victims of war in the ceremony - which is civilians.

So read the first page then jumped in here.

Not sure about the modern significance of the poppy but in todays service we had a poinient (sp) serman about the first soilder killed in bosnia trying to help some pregnant women.

I was more annoyed by the people feeling the need to document the part of the service at the the mamorial, even in the minutes silence that stupid camera sound comming from peoples phones.

Now if only some had written a song questioning war and purpose.

[quote=bigdean ]Now if only some had written a song questioning war and purpose.
No point when this has already been done

But did Corbyn bow enough?

I think it was the jacket that upset everyone

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