[Closed] Mac v PC advice

Open the flood gates...

What do you actually want to do with it, how much do you want to spend and how important is the look and brand to you?

unless you need it for graphics rendering or music production then a mac is way more than you need and it isn't worth all the format compatibility issues that always exist.

you can get around this by turning your mac into a pc but then you can turn your pc into a pc for half the cost.

if it's just for family use then buy a pc and if the cash is burning a hole in your pocket, buy 2 pc's.

and yes, i do own a mac.

and a pc.

If you are used to Pcs I would stick with it.

(I am a lifelong Mac user (as in life of Macs, not me) but recently bought a PC laptop for home as it simply made more sense.

I use both. A windows 7 PC and an older macbook. Both do the job fine. The macbook is used to do work on (I'm a computer science student) and the PC is used for games, films etc.

The mac took a little while to get used to but its fine once you get used to the little differences, wouldn't rave about how good or it is or tell you to stay away.

If you have kids who play games then I'd be careful of getting the mac just because the stuff they have wont work and anything new would have to be the mac version which doesnt always exist.

I used to use Macs for work about 15 years ago but had to change to PC due to software availability. Stayed that way until last year and we now have a couple of Hackintosh (snow leopard) netbooks in the house just for web/email use and they're great - I feel much happier letting my 3 young girls cruise around the interenet looking for games to play on OSX than Windows.

Overall Macs are simply nicer/easier to own in my experience.

Another Mac user here. Horses for courses, innit? If you're doing (or want to do) any kind of media editing then its a Mac every time. If you're just using it for Word, internet etc, then you don't need one.

They are very nice though. Much more usable an intuitive. I occasionally have to use a PC at work, to get around the afore-mentioned compatibility issues with certain pre-historic software. Frankly, its like climbing out of a Ferrari and getting behind the wheel of a tractor

I am a lifelong Mac user (as in life of Macs, not me) but recently bought a PC laptop for home as it simply made more sense

MF that is far too reasonable and logical - wtf is wrong with you?!

Err... I am broke 😉

Seriously I just couldn't justify the money as all I wanted was something to put all our music and pictures on - any 'work' is done at work (which is just 10 minutes from home) and I have access to powerful Macs and PCs should I need them.

After 16yrs of PC use I got my first mac (macbook pro) a few months ago. I like it but not as wowed as I thought I'd be. I think coming from windows 7 to mac os is not the massive step change it might have been in Win 95 or 3.11 days.

I have in my hand a copy of parallels which I'll be using later to put windows on too so I can run Solidworks for a bit of work and memory map for a bit of play which is maybe a sign that I'm not a wholesale convert.

I do find my work PC laptop a pain after the macbook though - more to do with the amazing multifunctional touch pad on the mac than the operating systems.

I'm not going to wade in here with an opinion either way as there is no *right* answer and its very specific to your requirements and taste but I will say do not listen to things like this:

unless you need it for graphics rendering or music production then a mac is way more than you need and it isn't worth all the format compatibility issues that always exist.

It might have been true 15 years ago but it's just not the case now. Macs are no better for Audio or Graphics work than a similarly specced PC. Format issues also are pretty much a non-issue too. Any format worthy of being used mainstream is supported by both.

(yes, I own and use both daily, and plenty of other obscure OS's too, you'll get by fine with either, it's more about what you're familiar with than anything else)

FFS get real you guys, are you all trolling?

No mention of windows being **** cause it get virus's,and no anti-mac baying for the blood of the Job's disciples... WTF is happening to this site? 😉

BUT for the record, the very reasonable comments above are worth reading...

I was thinking that. Must be the heat. Well done everyone, I think we've grown as a forum.

there is no *right* answer and its very specific to your requirements and taste

This.

I have a mac laptop along with windows pc/laptop.

I'm a long term windows user and (or so) I find the mac interface fairly nasty. Reminds me of gem from the 1980s. I do like the hardware enough to prefer the mac over my huge windows laptop though (only because it's small and light though).

Reminds me of gem from the 1980s.

YOU TAKE THAT BACK!!

I miss my little green desktop.

Macs are no better for Audio or Graphics work than a similarly specced PC

Oh my aching sides! Have you ever tried to produce a large format, Hi-res Photoshop illustration on a PC? I once did. Once. Not something I'd ever be attempting again, thank you very much. Brand new 'state of the art' PC too. Not some cheap PC World laptop.

It fell over more times per hour than Frank Gallagher at a free bar!

my 2 cents...

Mac better build quality
Win7 better OS

I run windows on my Macs (but will try Lion)

I once did. Once.

When?

My W7 laptop has never fallen over, I don't think. The one that cost probably half an equivalent Mac.

couple of years back. So there!

Macs is just, like, well betterer! innit! 😛

You are probably more likely to have some kind of driver issue or something causing instability on a PC.

However they are half the price so it's a risk worth taking, for me 🙂

OTOH, no-one makes PC Airs.

Oh my aching sides! Have you ever tried to produce a large format, Hi-res Photoshop illustration on a PC? I once did. Once. Not something I'd ever be attempting again, thank you very much. Brand new 'state of the art' PC too. Not some cheap PC World laptop.

Funny....my better half is a graphic designer and is currently sitting at home on my i7 Laptop with photoshop and is surprised how much quicker it is than her macbook pro. She is hating windows though, I have to admit that!

In the old days, yes OSX was a slicker, quicker OS than than Windows, but these days - sorry the tables have turned. I have benchmarked lightroom and DXO running batch jobs on the same macbook pro and a mac mini both running osx and win7 and in both cases windows was a lot faster. for example.

converting 5 identical raw files on each.
Macbook pro i5 4gb 2.4ghz:
Win 7 - 1.31min
osx - 2.52min

Minimac 2.4 core 2 duo 2gb (current model):
win 7 - 2.18min
osx - 5.04min

OTOH, no-one makes PC Airs.

Apple does 😉

I love OSX, I think like many people, it is a better OS than Windows ever has been, far more intuitive and easy to use. That said, Windows 7 is also a significant step on from anything that has gone before, and it is more stable than any previous version of Windows, even if it's still not quite as nice to use as OSX.

But Apple have started to take the piss again price wise with their hardware. 3 years ago, it seemed they were really keen to take the challenge to Windows based PC's, and like for like the price difference came down to only say a 20-30% premium for a Mac with OSX compared to a similar spec PC with Windows, which made it much easier to stomach. These days, they've gone back to the bad old days of pricing everything to be 50-100% more expensive than its Windows powered equivalent, and I find that quite insulting.

So my solution... PC hardware, hacked to run OSX natively. My machine cost a little over £300, but is as powerful as a Mac Pro from a couple of years ago, or a current Gen i5 iMac (though obviously my screen was about £200 extra). It is quite a lot to learn for the average user to make it happen successfully, so I'd not recommend it unless you're pretty familiar with computers, that said it was easier than I was expecting.

I recently got a mac book pro for personal use after having only pc's at home for the last 11 years. I use both Macs and pc's in work and have to say I prefer my new mac laptop to the pc laptop its replaced. It feels well put together, the scanner just worked when I plugged it in instantly, no drivers to install or anything. The SSD hard drive means it boots up in about 8 seconds maybe less. All the i-stuff programs fulfill your needs for home use too.

Yes pc would be cheaper but for enjoyment of use the Mac wins for me.

So my solution... PC hardware, hacked to run OSX natively. My machine cost a little over £300, but is as powerful as a Mac Pro from a couple of years ago, or a current Gen i5 iMac (though obviously my screen was about £200 extra). It is quite a lot to learn for the average user to make it happen successfully, so I'd not recommend it unless you're pretty familiar with computers, that said it was easier than I was expecting

Likewise, though I have a real Macbook Pro in case I get in shtuck with OS updates. I do like OSX (and iLife particularly) a lot.

Whilst it is pretty straightforward in the main, I couldn't recommend it to anyone who doesn't know they'll backup regularly and be prepared to rebuild from scratch if a new kernel borks it.

IF you like Windows 7 (and it really is quite nice) buy a PC.
If you like OS X buy a Mac. It will cost you more.
If you aren't fussed either way, on balance I'd get a PC now.

"Compatibility issues" are pretty much a thing of the past now - almost nothing didn't work out of the box when we migrated to macs at home.

Software wise there are a very few things I still boot into windows for - Tracklogs mapping, the control software for a remote control and for a while an accounting package (but we soon switched to a native mac app - MYOB- for accounting). Things like SatNavs, phones and cameras that were a problem on Mac years back are no longer as most things are web based now.

Hardware is better built than almost any windows PCs (built to a quality not a price) and is genuinely a pleasure to use. I still use both Mac and PC regularly but much prefer mac

As to the kit, generally a Mac will outlast a PC two or three times over

Seems improbable for a home user. I've got pretty old laptops that have not failed.

As to the kit, generally a Mac will outlast a PC two or three times over

Apple computers are superficially very very good. Lots of nice touches like the backlit keyboard, magsafe and so on but the actual quality and durability are not so great.

I have 5 macbooks in my family of various ages, and all have had multiple broken palmrests and on mine the hinge has broken. My wife has been through 3 chargers, because they don't have a good strain relief thingy on the cord it keeps fraying and going wrong. The charging/draining lights on mine stopped working the other day.

I personally will keep using them because I prefer OSX, but don't buy on the basis that the hardware is better quality.

OP, it doesn't seem like you've answered what you want the machine for ...

IME a PC for everyday use is better VFM than its Apple equivalent. Plus with improvements to W7 it's become more stable and generally better.

I don't buy into the 'Wow, isn't OSX great because ...' bollocks. OSX (I run 10.6 on MBP and Mini) is okay but just not as friendly and contextually feature-rich as W7. Hence I don't like it as much. Pretty, yes. Functional, not wholly.

Lion looks to add a few more things but it could be style over substance, which is IMO what OSX is anyway.

More s/w for W7 too, but that's subjective anyway because you need to figure out what you want.

Browsing pretty much the same on both. Safari is IMO shit. Chrome defo the way for moi.

....which is IMO what OSX is anyway.

Heh.

I switched to Mac because they were quiet and looked nice - at the time of the football imac.

Currently using a 27" imac for the same reasons + amazing screen + never ever having had any virus/malware problems (that I know about) + whenever I have to use a PC (my wife has a laptop for work that I occasionally have to help her with) I hate its clunkyness.

Safari is IMO shit. Chrome defo the way for moi.

I've not used Safari in millennia, but they both use the Webkit engine so theoretically there should be little or no difference in how they render pages, I'd have thought?

Sure, there's still going to be interface differences and suchlike, but I'm surprised that you've got such polar opposite opinions of what are ostensibly the same products in different pants.

I know next to nothing about macs only that theyre used for the most part by professionals and wannabes[Think-The fixie crowd 😉 ]
Macs are expensive then rise in expense
PC's are not[though it depends what you wish to spend.
Macs arent really that good for modern gaming[if thats your thing of an eve' ]the do make gaming versions but they tend to be overly expensive
PC's are very good for gaming and even basic machines will run modern graphics at a playable frame rate.
Macs are fantastic for music applications
So are PC's
Macs and PC's have security flaws[though many mac users claim otherwise[sour grapes 😕 ]
Oops..Just realized this list is going to be endless,best not continue.

Don’t believe the 'macs just work' brigade.

I support both and have had more problems with Mac hard drive crashes over the last 12 months than PC's.

Some good sensible advice above and not the usual fan boy rubbish.

I'm currently working out the pro's and con's of going to a mac for myself.
Most of the software I currently use has a mac variant.
I'm looking at laptops and the size and weight is pointing towards a mac, but the comfort of knowing my way around is a draw for windows.

There's really no point in a mac unless you need mac-only software such as Logic or FCP. The entire Adobe suite is exactly the same on both operating systems and the myths about a mac running better than a pc on the same hardware are rubbish. Unfortunately the industry I'm getting into is all about the mac so I'm just having to grit my teeth and bear it and get on with using them!

To me it's just an extra expense for similar performance as a windows machine half the price. Of course if you have the money to burn then you might as well because they do look nicer and are arguably better if you can't use the internet properly and thus are susceptible to viruses.

edit - laptop wise I think Apple have the slight advantage of way nicer construction with the aluminium case and the multi-touch pad. Laptops aren't built for proper performance though, everyone knows that 😉

Luke - you do have to buy all that software again. Assuming you bought it in the first place of course.

TBH, I think _tom_ is on the right lines.

In terms of functionality, there's little between them, games aside. What it boils down to for most people is personal preference and price; if you buy a Sony Vaio you pay a premium for the badge and a sleek design, Apple are just another step again. Do you want to pay a premium for teh shineyz?

Do you want to pay a premium for teh shineyz?

£1600 for an all in one computer, running a sandybridge processor with a 27" IPS screen is not, comparatively speaking of course, that much more compared to what a similar PC variant would cost surely?

I had a MacBook Pro for a few months at work and it certainly was a lovely piece of kit, hardware wise anyway. Really nicely put together, but then you do pay the extra for it- nothing wrong with that of course, but if you just want a computer to do computery things the fact is that a Dell for half the price will do just as well even if it does feel a bit plasticky in comparison.

As for OS, with the advent of Windows 7 I think the arguments about which is best are largely moot now, personal preferences aside of course.

We have a couple of Macs around at work and they do still throw up the occasional annoying compatibility problem- external hard drive formatting for example.

So, I'd just get a PC unless you're prepared to pay the extra for the shininess*, which these days is about all you're getting that's really better.

*That looks wrong but apparently it's right!

We have a couple of Macs around at work and they do still throw up the occasional annoying compatibility problem- external hard drive formatting for example

On a side note, I always found it strange that Microsoft's Xbox360 will read HDs formatted with Mac OS Ext. Journaled, but not NTFS.

On a side note, I always found it strange that Microsoft's Xbox360 will read HDs formatted with Mac OS Ext. Journaled, but not NTFS.

On a similar note, I found it strange that when even Apple went over to Intel processors, leaving the IBM PowerPC processors behind, who did Microsoft turn to to develop the processor for the XBOX 360?

Well it wasn't Intel or AMD... And funnily enough, though everyone thought IBM would go tits up after Apple left them, they've never had it so good with so many XBOX's out there in the world each with one of their processors in!

I would imagine MS went with IBM as they would have got a spectacularly good deal from them, as they knew they had just lost a very big client.

...saying that, IBMs main biznizz is servers, so even Apple jumping ship wouldn't have been the end of the world.

At home we have 3 Macs ( 2 mini ones doing largely browser and media server stuff and an iMac) one Dell PC and one Linux Laptop. I use PCs at work.

Which crashes most? One of the mini-macs
Which is the most PITA with updates? The PC.
Which is fastest? The iMac.

The macs were not cheap - but do usually just work.
The mac route is not necessarily always more expensive however - Changing 3 macs to the newer snow Leopard OS, adding the full Office-equivalent Mac suite plus iLife (including Garage band) cost about £70 the lot and we could have done 2 more for that. If only MS stuff were as cheap. And you didn't need to hunt down lost drivers...

But the standout in terms of speed of operation - given the hardware - is Linux.

And yes - Safari sucks. FFX is way better.

If look/design is more important to you then its Mac all the way. The mac book air is a beautiful bit of kit. The closest to it is Sony.

Like the iphone it does things very well but you dont get the option to try other things if you want. A little bit like comparing the iphone to the android.

The software is no better or no faster than windows 7.

You will have more choice with software in windows.

As earlier both 'just work' so it usually comes down to the design factor with most people and if you want to pay for that.

Macs keep working and don't get slow, plus they always do the same thing every time. I love them. We've just bought my sister in law one who has cerebral palsy. She had a PC before. She's already adapted to it, just took a few days.

GB

Apple hardware is good.. but [the internals] its nothing you can't get elsewhere.. and you are paying for a Unix based OS.. it might have the edge for publishing and design, just like windows does for gaming - the various OS are good at different things

The monitors seem expensive, since you can get quality monitors from other manufactures that use IPS panels

I see windows as a convenience thing.. people like it because it seems easy to use and its all they've ever known.. you can easily get yourself in a mess with it too - things getting installed when they shouldn't or accessing things they shouldn't so easily..

So hereby await flameaggedon by suggesting you try Linux - unless you game alot or have a very specific need for a certain piece of software

Which won't cost anything and the amount of software available is staggering.. someone will probably say its all **** but there's plenty of good stuff out there... and all the while it is catching up in areas where it might be or is perceived to be behind

Just trying to remember why some of the members don't like it... last time it seemed to be that most hadn't tried it for long enough to actually form a sensible opinion.. those who encountered the smallest of problems gave up

Its partly an image thing too.. people would be afraid to say they used it

I know one or two members on 'ere have used it thought

Oh and Xbox 360 has an ATI GPU in it IIRC

rant over heh

Which won't cost anything and the amount of software available is staggering.. someone will probably say its all **** but there's plenty of good stuff out there... and all the while it is catching up in areas where it might be or is perceived to be behind

Big problem is MS Office. Running it through some kind of emulator thing is a pain. Open Office is not the same, particularly if you have to work with other people who have MS Office, as it doesn't format documents exactly the same, so you end up breaking each other's formatting.

Joe

joemarshall - Member
Big problem is MS Office. Running it through some kind of emulator thing is a pain. Open Office is not the same, particularly if you have to work with other people who have MS Office, as it doesn't format documents exactly the same, so you end up breaking each other's formatting.

What do you mean? MS Office is available for OSX and it's really good (2011 is better than the latest Windows version imho)

Linux is just too much trouble for most people, Conq. It just is. I wish it weren't, but that's the sad reality I'm afraid.

[img] http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS5AYAzLw-T3_-mZDjTUmZGV2JngJXDe22FZlqb3tn4ZeaLNsU3xA&t=1 [/img]

retro83 - Member

joemarshall - Member
Big problem is MS Office. Running it through some kind of emulator thing is a pain. Open Office is not the same, particularly if you have to work with other people who have MS Office, as it doesn't format documents exactly the same, so you end up breaking each other's formatting.

What do you mean? MS Office is available for OSX and it's really good (2011 is better than the latest Windows version imho)

Ah, Linux, disregard my post then! 😳

Macs keep working and don't get slow, plus they always do the same thing every time.

Sorry, but I'm a fan of OSX for sure, much prefer it over windows, but either you're just a casual user or don't have much experience of Mac's at all. OK, they dont slow down as quickly as PC's in general, but my god you can still bring them to a grinding halt if you want, or you're a bit jam fisted.

well everyone has their opinion molgrips... but at least give your reason for the benefit of the thread 😆

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http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=MO-013-HO&groupid=17&catid=1120&subcat=

http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B003A4H17S/

£1600 for an all in one computer, running a sandybridge processor with a 27" IPS screen is not, comparatively speaking of course, that much more compared to what a similar PC variant would cost surely?

easily achievable with probably a lot of money to spare using one of those two monitors above

Stinkpad FTW - http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2011/may/17/computing-opensource

easily achievable with probably a lot of money to spare using one of those two monitors above

but why would you? it doesn't run osx (without hacking) and is ugly as sin (like most other PC's)

i use both daily, cant say theres much in it, from a work point of view a lot more shareware type stuff works better/easier with pcs
other than looks and maybe ergonomics/weight (of the laptops) a mac just seems overpriced

Macs keep working and don't get slow, plus they always do the same thing every time.

Rose tinted specs there I'm afraid. In the real world they dont all just keep working and my windows 7 laptop (running ss hd) which has been running for 2 yrs is faster than a macbook pro 1 yr old. Boots quicker, Office apps open quicker.

Some people get a bit carried away with how things open and close on a Mac, which I must admit is very nice but sometimes I dont want it to bounce around I just want the bloody thing to open quickly!!

Sorry forgot to add. SS drive is the business. I'm not sure if they come as standard on the Macs but if you get the option choose the ss drive. More expensive on the PC but worth it.

Nibby that's what I don't like about the os, and you can't turn off that animation as far as I'm aware.

Tom, yes it's annoying. It's not designed for 10 yr olds and very annoying that it wont turn off (as far as I know?) I find that annoying about the OS in general. It seems more closed in that it will only let you do up to a point. Which for some people is a good thing but again stop treating us like 10 yr olds!!

easily achievable with probably a lot of money to spare using one of those two monitors above

Can I watch when you try to shoe horn the components into that Dell monitor please 😉

Nibby that's what I don't like about the os, and you can't turn off that animation as far as I'm aware.

Which animation we talking about?

My 2010 MBP is no more stable than my 2004 XP work laptop - I have to reboot them both just as often to solve various issues. I much prefer the MBP, but OSX isn't really that stable. Parallels has quite a few issues as well inc randomly deciding to use 100% of the CPUs for no reason - http://forum.parallels.com/showthread.php?t=96981

Which animation we talking about?

The bouncy icon on the dock which is fun for the first few times after which you think "stop wasting time and open up my bloody program".

Uncheck the following in System Preferences>Dock, Tom:

[img] [/img]

but why would you?

Last time I checked saving substantial amounts of money was a good thing. Especially when the two items in question perform the exact same tasks.

I had a recent foray back into Microsoft land, having been convinced by the the positive feedback people were giving about Win7. Bought a copy and stuck it on a desktop so that I could have a play around. The OS itself seems okay, but the petty restrictions and faffy nature of installing the product reminded me of all the reasons why I got fed up with Microsoft and switched to OSX in the first place.

I think part of the problem is that comparing my MacBook Pro to the Win7 Lenovo that my wife has from work isn't very easy. The build quality of the two machines may be very similar, although I still prefer the aesthetics of the aluminium mac to the plastic shelled Lenovo. The visual simplicity of the Apple product is much more to my taste, and that matters to me. To my mind, it's a bit like comparing an Aston Martin to an Impreza - visually, I prefer the clean lines of the Aston and, if I had the cash, I'd never consider an Impreza or an Evo simply because they look too cluttered.

when I was a student, I built all my own desktops - still remember the fear as I sat in my room with £900 worth of components lying on the bed wondering if I could make this new Cyrix 200Mhz processor work! After years of spending time tinkering and faffing with Windows boxes, and a variety of Dell laptops, the final straw came when I spent a couple of hundred quid buying a new video editing card and software for a youth work project I was involved in, only to discover that the damn thing didn't work properly thanks to poorly implemented drivers. I went and bought a PowerMac and a copy of Final Cut Express and got the job done with a minimum of fuss.

I'm unlikely to switch back now unless something happens in Apple world to generate the same level of dissatisfaction with Macs, although a brief experience of being treated like a criminal with Windows 7 means I'd have to be really pissed off to contemplate using it on a computer again. To be honest, computer processing power benchmarks stopped being a meaningful measure of what I buy a long time ago, as I'm not doing anything so intensive that it really matters that much. I'd be perfectly happy with an inferior machine specs-wise as long as the technology doesn't interfere with me doing the things I want/need to do with a computer.

Uncheck the following in System Preferences>Dock, Tom:

Oh, I must've missed that somehow - cheers 🙂

Oh, I must've missed that somehow - cheers

Yup. It's easy to miss....what with there being about 3 check boxes 😉

Last time I checked saving substantial amounts of money was a good thing. Especially when the two items in question perform the exact same tasks.

does it run final cut? logic?
will it's firewire 800 port (if it even has one?) put out enough power to run my digital back?
will it run in target mode so i can quickly move gigs of files from computer to computer?

re: Linux - I work with it everyday, and I'm afraid I'd have to agree with Molgrips. If you just want email, web and open office it would do the job.. but then they inevitably go and buy a Windows only printer or want to run some weird sha-mo that Wine can handle at a crawl.. unless you're dead keen on the fiddling it just isn't worth the hassle... i.e. you install linux because you want too or need too.

I run PowerPC ubuntu on an eMac in the garage but my wife would tell me to sod off were I to try to replace the Hackintosh with it - OSX is just lovely for digicams, music etc. but having got Win7 imposed on me at work some months back, the difference is not so pronounced now - the Windows Live apps are pretty damn good for nowt.