[Closed] Lost it on the train tonight with the guard

Did you leave?

Did you get off the train?

Did you have pudding?

Why are people so friggin weak in the country.

I'm not convinced that only using what you have paid for is "weak".

Not if he didn't eat his meat.

How many other passengers in the vestibule made a stand and joined you?

Was there a threat of moderate violence and will you leave a trip advisor review?

Did you get a free coffee?

Was there a threat of moderate violence and will you leave a trip advisor review?

Very good!

vestibule

*S****s

[img] http://triadstrategies.typepad.com/.a/6a0120a6abf659970b0133ed548d72970b-pi [/img]

Poor sod was only doing his job.

[quote=flanagaj ]If everyone stood up to these 'maximise share holder value' train operators

I thought it was doing that which upset you?

I blew up

Did you though or did just tut FURIOUSLY!!!!11!

I was tempted to tell him I was going no where and he could call the police and they could drag me off the train.

So, what did you tell him?

Did you get up?

There is a reason why there is 1st class and cattle class

I hate when commoners try to enter 1st class

If you paid for a seat, then why should you stand up?

If they can't provide the service you paid for then they should refund you or compensate.

We're not talking about the underground!

[img] [/img]

Sounds like there was nearly a
[img] [/img]

Yay, immediately pick on the weaknesses of an argument!

Taking a moment back from cold facts for a minute, it's not only a bit daft, it's actually ridiculous.

A carriage is empty (presuming no reservations)

People are overcrowded in remaining carriages.

Doesn't matter - stand in this carriage for nearly 2 hours, you peasant.

I hate public transport, for reasons such as this. Give OP a break through; if I had to use it every day I'd have gone postal way before this!

I hate public transport, for reasons such as this. Give OP a break through; if I had to use it every day I'd have gone postal way before this!

I'd have gone first class.

Nope. Talking about Waterloo -> Salisbury with the same number of carriages on the peak service that they used 10 years ago. Passenger numbers have soared though!

On reflection, if I owned SWT I would have a single carriage and have people on the roof. Reduce operating expense to a minimum whilst maximizing operating profit. We all know the suckers on the train have no other option

If you paid for a seat, then why should you stand up?

Jesus, how many times. Its like the 'road tax' thing.

You pay to get on a train and go from A to B. You do NOT pay for the right to have a seat. Unless you reserve in advance...

[s]Do you pay for a seat or do you pay to travel from point A to point B?[/s]
10 measley seconds 🙁

We need to know. Are you posting this whilst walking the rest of the way home to Salisbury? ?

Well, I don't think you get to take the seat home with you.

A carriage is empty (presuming no reservations)

People are overcrowded in remaining carriages.

Doesn't matter - stand in this carriage for nearly 2 hours, you peasant.

Would you do the same in an aeroplane?

Immediately charge upstairs and claim 62B as your rightful domain?

Doesn't matter - sit in the back end for nearly ten hours, you peasant!

😉

Talking about Waterloo -> Salisbury

I was on that very same line earlier today. Was a most pleasant trip.

🙂

Drac - Moderator

I'd have gone first class.

No you wouldn't; I know your travel policy 🙂

CaptainFlashheart - Bleated.

Would you do the same in an aeroplane?

When was the last time you stood in a plane?

Would you do the same in an aeroplane?
Immediately charge upstairs and claim 62B as your rightful domain?
Doesn't matter - sit in the back end for nearly ten hours, you peasant!

Other way round last flight I was on. Business was chocka, took a wander to stretch my legs and cattle class had about 15 people in

National Rail Conditions of Carriage:

39. Travelling in first class accommodation with a standard class ticket
If you have a standard class ticket (other than a Season Ticket), no standard class
accommodation is available, and staff on that train give their permission, then you may
travel in first class accommodation (or the equivalent) where this is available without extra
charge.

[url= http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/static/documents/content/NRCOC.pdf ]It goes on[/url], but basically you were in the wrong.

[quote=flanagaj ] the suckers on the train have no other optionwell, they could opt not to get on the train, travel by other means perhaps?

No you wouldn't; I know your travel policy

They you'll know I always price it as sometimes you get a bargain price and no one standing next to complaining.

At the end of the day a train operator is a PLC who has a monopoly. Train operators should be none profit

Ok, I'm losing sympathy with you now...

EDIT: Lost

I'm sure it'll all change under a Labour guvament.

Ok, I'm losing sympathy with you now...

Do you commute?

[img] [/img]

I take it the OP actually meekly got up and left first class when he was told to? I think the revolution may still be some way off.

Do you commute?

For a while, about a year ago, I commuted daily on that very same line. Rarely didn't have a seat, train was almost always on time, or close enough. Oh, and chilled Tanglefoot for the occasional cheeky snifter on the homeward trip.

I still think you're having a silly little whinge, FWIW.

I have every sympathy for the op. Since well, frankly ages ago, and prior to the London Bridge closure, and the mass cancelling of trains, travel into London at peak time (or peak fare!) was already not good.

Yesterday, we were literally rammed in so close to each other, that even when the train swayed over the points, no one was going to fall over, as it was sardines.

And the OP is spot on, the job centre remenents they call "revenue protection" behave like total bastards, on Southern. Even the boss of TFL last week called them out as behaving like the Gestapo.

You get a totally packed train, due to shortage of carrigages, cancelled or delayed services. #You can perhaps just squeeze into first class as sitting is safer than standing, and the ladies are at less risk of fainting in the heat. Then, once the doors shut,a couple on un-uniformed ****s stand up and proceed to charge penalty fares, despite the fact the train is *so* heaving, they can only perform the trick by getting out at the next station and moving to the next first class spot by walking up the platform.

Frankly, I'm pretty mild and meek, but a couple of months ago, I refused to move out the way for them to get past, knowing what they were up to.

Given the service is crumbling to dust, the fares are extorionate, and we are not treated fairly as customers (see the refunds policy t&c) I'd not piss on Southern Railway, or their revenue protection staff if they were on fire. I feel differently about the drivers and run of the mill platform staff who basically share our feelings.

Op - you have my full support. But you need to experience the shite service and price gouging abuse before you really understand, so ignore the self righteous Audi drivers in IT who work from home.

flanagaj - Member

Please do enlighten me as I am very interested to understand your thought process here.

..because I was originally reading it as a post about 'rules must be obeyed' - and folk being made to stand for quite some time, to stick to those rules (and the inability/fear of people breaking those rules, despite clear common sense desperate to kick in) - I'd support such views.

You then randomly brought in a non-profit (nationalised?) point, at which point I lost interest in your OP (although I do think the rail should be re-nationalised, ironically!),

You'r either having a stand about basic conditions and common sense, or one about making the rail system NFP. Don't turn one post into another though!

Do you commute?

So much so, it would make your eyes water, I just avoid public transport 🙂

"Poor sod was only doing his job."

LITERALLY WORSE THAN HITLER

😉

LITERALLY WORSE THAN HITLER

At least he made the trains run on time.

(Well, somebody had to!)

At least he made the trains run on time.

(Well, somebody had to!)

In a nutshell, train operators should be monitored by an independent government body. If too many people are having to stand, they get fined.

SWT have announced they are adding 3 extra carriages to the service at the end of the summer. When asked why it has taken so long, you get a lame excuse about sourcing the carriages.

Do you commute?

Cut a long story short, the ticket inspector came around and told me I had to purchase an upgrade or leave first class and resume my standing up position.

[img] [/img]

If you watched the Nick Hewer programme about this recently you'd know that the train operator business operates on very very low margins circa 1%. It is the rolling stock guys who make the money and the operators struggle for years to get new trains and new routes.

The MTB analogy is crashing the uplift at Bikepark Wales because it's pissing it down

[quote=CaptainFlashheart ](Well, somebody had to!)

Had to get it wrong?

Mussolini made the trains run on time (well he didn't, but you know what I mean)

(well he didn't, but you know what I mean)

I know. Wasn't in any way a serious statement, just one of those things that is always said!

If you watched the Nick Hewer programme about this recently

Why are people so friggin weak in the country.

The MTB analogy is crashing the uplift at Bikepark Wales because it's pissing it down

I'd have gone postal

Once again, the throbbers are out in force tonight. *sigh*

Going back on topic, I sympathise with the OP having endured Southeastern's "service" for six years and a 30% price hike in that time.

It's very easy to feel like you're at the bottom of the pecking order when your train is cancelled twice resulting in frayed tempers and standing room only. Or perhaps on the hottest day of the year when the air conditioning fails and the heating system suddenly starts blasting hot air through each carriage on the train and the letterbox sized windows provide inadequate ventilation. You might be aggrieved when you realise that you spend more than a quarter of your take home pay each month on a season ticket that doesn't entitle you to a seat.

Frankly, it sucks great big balls and there's absolutely no redress whatsoever. Our local (Tory) MP doesn't care, neither did anyone in the last government.

In a nutshell, train operators should be monitored by an independent government body. If too many people are having to stand, they get fined.

Would you rather that you didn't get on the train at all then? Bit weird. You can't really magic more stock out of nowhere. the Salisbury line is about the worst too, as it's not electrified, so you're stuck with their limited stock of diesels. Still, 10/10 for showing ignorance and not thinking your post through.

You're still a bit of a pillock though. I got on a train recently (with a first class ticket) and first had been commandeered by people like you (of their own vocation), so I had to stand. It's more expensive for a reason. If it was full and standing every day it would be rather pointless...

Sure you'd get on with Yunki. The two of you could stick it to the man together.

Would you rather that you didn't get on the train at all then? Bit weird. You can't really magic more stock out of nowhere. the Salisbury line is about the worst too, as it's not electrified, so you're stuck with their limited stock of diesels. Still, 10/10 for showing ignorance and not thinking your post through.

You're still a bit of a pillock though. I got on a train recently (with a first class ticket) and first had been commandeered by people like you (of their own vocation), so I had to stand. It's more expensive for a reason. If it was full and standing every day it would be rather pointless..

1) I waited until train had left Waterloo so I was sure I was not taking a seat of a first class paying passenger. That's a slightly different scenario!

2) Please refrain from the personal the insults. I don't know you.

Well if we have Dear red army Ed as PM all of us will be standing in the cattle class then who are you going to blame eh? 🙄

Yes, sorry, bit unfair. You showed pillocky behaviour.

Presumably your fellow passengers didn't join you in your crusade then?

I don't know you either.I can only proceed on the evidence presented here......
I'm with Njee.
Also I believe the term is *swoon,not *sigh.

Presumably your fellow passengers didn't join you in your crusade then?

flanagaj - Member
Yes they did join me, but when the guard arrived they scampered off!

😆

I'm still not clear why the OP thinks it's justified and noble to take something he hasn't paid for?

Should I wait outside Hertz until close of business and then drive home in one of their cars as it's better than walking and no one else is using it?

I'm still not clear why the OP thinks it's justified and noble to take something he hasn't paid for?

Imagine you book a flight, but when you walk on the plane all of the seats are taken and you had stand for the duration. Would you find that acceptable? I doubt you would, so why do you think it is ok to have to do it day in day out on a train to London?

ps - your car analogy is not quite the same.

ChubbyBlokeInLycra - Member
I'd have gone postal

Really? Wrap yourself up, stamp yourself, get to the post office, chucked in the back of a van, delivered to the wrong address.. etc etc. Seems a bit of overkill when all you had to do was sit in 1st Class and be nice to the guard.
POSTED 58 MINUTES AGO # REPORT-POST

You should really know what your talking about before posting a smart ass response.

tlr - Member
I'm still not clear why the OP thinks it's justified and noble to take something he didn't pay for

He paid for transportation of a living, breathing, human being, from one place to another in a timely and civilised manner. Facilities were available to provide just hat level of service, but were denied to the OP due his class status being of more importance than civility.

If an airline had overbooked, you'd be more likely to be upgraded than be booked onto a later flight and you'd definite not be forced to stand or sit in someone's lap.

The rail [b][u]service[/u][/b] should be (re) nationalised in order to SERVE the public.

You should really know what your talking about before posting a smart ass response.

You mean like being aware of...

National Rail Conditions of Carriage:

39. Travelling in first class accommodation with a standard class ticket
If you have a standard class ticket (other than a Season Ticket), no standard class
accommodation is available, and staff on that train give their permission, then you may
travel in first class accommodation (or the equivalent) where this is available without extra
charge.

you walk on the plane all of the seats are taken and you had stand for the duration. Would you find that acceptable? I doubt you would, so why do you think it is ok to have to do it day in day out on a train to London?

If you booked a seat on a train then I agree wholeheartedly with you. If you booked transportation from a-b on a train then I don't.

When I book a flight I book a seat, so I would rightly be aggrieved if my seat wasn't available. I usually book a specific seat, at extra cost if necessary to ensure I get as comfortable flight as possible be it Ryanair or long haul Business Class. I assume these kind of options were available when you booked your train ticket?

[img] [/img]

If an airline had overbooked, you'd be more likely to be upgraded than be booked onto a later flight and you'd definite not be forced to stand or sit in someone's lap.

The rail service should be (re) nationalised in order to SERVE the public.

What? Airlines are international companies, and are therefor regulated and monitored to provide a level of control and oversight. This is done because to nationalise a foreign company would be illegal.

The UK rail network is still government owned, but use of the track is granted to private companies who're supposed to provide rail services to the public. They are barely regulated, and often only oversights by the term dates imposed by contract lengths.

Re-nationalising the rail service (Uk companies with contracts to operate on UK held infrastructure) is entirely possible and was one of the key manifesto promises of the 1997 labour government...a pledge they eventually reneged on.

This is done because to nationalise a foreign company would be illegal.

So you think that renationalising the private sector railways will make them work at the same standard as the private sector airlines? How will that work then? Unless you meant to include additional legislation to change the way the railways work, but if that's what you meant, why won't that work without renationalising as, as you point out, the legislation works for the private sector airlines?

Issue here is capacity planning. How would OP feel if he had to be on same train every night in order to take his pre-booked seat (the airline model) would you be happy to be rebooked on to a subsequent service if yours was cancelled? If your meetinf overruns would you be happy to pay more? Perhaps the carrier would provide a hotel if they could not re-book you within 12 hours?

Trains aren't airlines - the quality of service is different, but you know that when you buy passage, so I don't see what the fuss is about.

Having said that - SWT, Berks. Did you know the price of adding zone 1-6 to a season ticket varies depending where the ticket starts from? WTF?

I have been put in first class by a ticket conductor when the carriage was over full.

So I kind of sympathize with the OP, I don't get why more train companies don't do this. It would be good PR - airlines seem to do it more often!

There aren't proper facilities for standing on carriages, too many people standing blocks escape routes and causes numerous other safety hazards. So the....you're booking a journey....not a seat doesn't swing with me.

funny it must be an english thing.

who ever FGWT call them selves now used to do the same as did virgin . trains full no seats you must stand no first class seats for you.

get on a scotrail train. Trains full - pop through to the empty first class and take a seat there - no issues.

Same issue with the virgin and FGWT trains and bikes - absolute nightmare where as scotrail make it as painless as possible - and thus i use them out of preference to the car.

They are their own worst enemy.

I'm lucky enough not to need to commute by public transport (I don't drive an Audi and I'm not in IT), however I absolutely sympathise with the OP

On health, safety and welfare grounds available 1st class seats should be opened up to standing passengers on the understanding that they will be given up to 1st class ticket holders as required, however it can't be allowed to become a free-for-all decided by passengers

The Government should write this into train company contracts (if they don't already) and maybe companies would be less inclined to provide empty, expensive, 1st class capacity

All jolly British - keep calm and keep standing up on crappy overcrowded trains. No wonder the train companies are rubbing their hands with glee and trousering the cash they should be spending on improving services.

Can I just remind those people calling for renationalisation of the railways quite how bad it was under British Rail? I've spent far too much time on trains before and since privatisation and there is no contest.

Under BR the trains had appalling time keeping, were dirty and crowded. We now have fewer delays, better rolling stock and less overcrowding despite more users. It is not perfect in any way but it is so much better than it was.