[Closed] Lilly Allen

TJ I will just sigh and be annoyed at myself for returning to a thread I intended to leave be.

I did think it was an odd thread to post on here, being what people can be like on the forum (your response kind of a good example).

But you asking

What on earth importance is it to us?

is just inflammatory tbh. It does have importance to the op and as it happens quite a few other people on the forum have had similar experiences.

As has been said by many if you have not been through it you really do not have any idea so please please do not pretend you do.

surfmatt if you want to get owt off your chest feel free to email me.

and how do you mourn something you have never known??

and how do you mourn something you have never known??

rest assured Ton after scans, kicks and getting on to 9 months of preparing and anticipating you do feel like you know him/her. 🙁

and how do you mourn something you have never known

At 6 months into labour both me and my wife felt like we knew our son, his personality and his routines. Luckily William was born without problem. Its never nice to hear that other people haven't been so lucky, celeb or none celeb.

It was only a matter of time till ton posted 🙄

DezB, not having a go at you directly, I know you're not one of the bad guys, it was just my take on it...

It's a fairly undignified thread all in all. but if it helps people by getting it off their chests, then fair enough.

fella's, i have 2 kids and a grandaughter...........you do not need to tell me about loving your kids.
like i said, mrs ton had a misscarriage.....obviously for a reason, like the baby was unwell/whatever.
we were upsetlike anyone would be......but we did not mourn something we never knew.

To lighten things. Last night I picked Zach up from Nursery for the first time...

'Whats his DOB please'?

16th?

Wrong, its 14th. She looked at me as though I should have cherished and tattoo'd his bloody date of birth on my forearm. Oh get real I'm not a van driving Man U fan 😆

But that is your take Ton - glad you could accept it that way.

I remember the anxiety I had at every scan, the rushing to hospital overtaking on the wrong side of the road when my wife experienced some bleeding (which turned out to be nothing serious thank god).

You can't not mourn when you have carried a tiny white coffin Ton. Wouldn't wish it on anyone.

maxray......i wont argue mate. i have never been in the situation.
hope i never am either.

aye,

sorry Ton, rereading that seemed like I had just tried to write something you couldnt really come back on. Didnt mean it to sound like that.

I honestly don't know what to say. The ignorance of people on this forum is unbelievable. I really should know better than to come back.

Maxray, your comment is accurate and painful.

I think people need to understand the difference between a miscarriage, upsetting though that is, and loss of a baby.

You lose you future, your dreams, your ability to trust in anything good ever happening. Your life is never the same. You cannot take solace in the fact that the one you have lost had a good life and you shared happy times before the sad. It is a loss that is all consuming.

I think perhaps this thread has nothing to do with Lilly Allen and everything to do with miscarriages.
Clearly its a highly emotive subject. We had a nervous time expecting our only child. Mrs Yinn was 44 at the time when she was expecting yinn jnr. We knew there were risks and there were a few scares along the way. We were lucky that he went full term, but im sure there are plenty of others in a similar age group who weren't so lucky.
My thoughts go out to anyone who has lost a child (born or unborn).

just a quick word......i meant no offence to anyone with my twopenneth.
😳

I never thought you did. You too have lost a child, everyone handles things differently, some are c'est la vie, others seek reasons why. No one forgets.

You lose you future, your dreams, your ability to trust in anything good ever happening. Your life is never the same. You cannot take solace in the fact that the one you have lost had a good life and you shared happy times before the sad. It is a loss that is all consuming.

Totally spot on.

We held ours when he was born. A true knot in his cord, the cord that gave him life, wrapped around his neck and the knot tightened as he grew - so it took his life away so close to his due date. My wife had to carry him around dead for two days then be induced. He was perfect in every way. We buried him in a churchyard nearby and see him most days.

How on earth can you not mourn something like that? How on earth can the above scenario be "ill/not right/etc?" In that case, why do disabled babies survive given that utterly ludicrous and actually incredibly dumb "theory" of yours then ton?

Anyway getting a bit washed away with it all now.

The [b]positives[/b] of this thread are that a few of us have shared an utterly cr4p experience. One that others find hard to talk about (even close friends clam up) and deal with.

Just had a scan as my wife is 26 weeks gone - only a sonic one. All fine but we SH1T ourselves for each hospital visit. It's a HUGE wind up but not as bad as the pregnancy for our lovely little 2 year old. We were complete nervous wrecks for that but all was fine in the end.

Honestly people - the ones not equipped with a shred of emotional intelligence, the ones daring to have little cr4ppy digs despite the subject matter - just leave it to those who have experienced the same.

Losing one at 12 weeks was gutting but NOTHING compared to losing a [b]baby son[/b] who was perfectly healthy to some freak horrible disaster.

Some of you just need to find that button - the one that says "maybe I shouldn't post this?" and press it HARD.

Nobody should have to carry the body of their child in a tiny coffin, my uncle had to do it twice (lost first to cot death, the second to cancer/leukemia aged 2)... never had so much respect for another man.

my heart gos out to all of you who have lost a child at any stage of pregnancy or their youth.

If any of you guys ever need to talk your experiences through then the Child Death Helpline on 0800 282 986 has volunteers who will listen. The lines are staffed by parents who have been in the same dark place as many who have posted on here.

When you lose a child, either pre or post birth, there is a part of you that dies with it. People deal with it in different ways. There is no right or wrong, just the way that suits you. I've been asked "How do you get over something like that?" The simple answer is you don't. You learn to live with it.

Mat, I wouldn't be too hard on ton. He has rationalised things based on his own experiences, not yours. Oh, and good luck. Another few weeks and we'll be expecting pictures of the happy event.

I've been asked "How do you get over something like that?" The simple answer is you don't. You learn to live with it.

Spot on Coyote, [url= http://www.uk-sands.org/ ]SANDS[/url] are also there for you should you need to talk to someone.

Before I was born, I had a brother that died when he was 16 days old. It had been a normal pregnancy, but they realised when he was born that his heart was effectively back to front. 32 years ago there wasn’t a huge amount they could do about it, so he slipped away. With my older brother asking where the baby was and my dad burying himself with work, my mother bottled her grief, tried to put on a brave face, and carried on as normal, and had me two years later. Two years after that, she had a psychotic breakdown from which she never fully recovered.

If people need/want to talk about it, then let them talk. Also, I think in a way it is particularly hard for fathers – they’re expected to be ‘strong’ for the mother, pretty much everyone’s attention is focused on the mother, and sometimes the father’s treated a bit like a spare part. Some might say that a mountain biking forum isn’t the best place, but if not here, where? Sometimes it’s easier to talk to strangers about it rather than friends or family.

What on earth importance is it to us?

How I interpret this, is that in the General Scheme of Things, with so much tragedy happening all around us, all over the World, why is the suffering of one celebrity any more [i]important[/i] than the suffering of anyone else? Quite frankly, the only reason the media reports such things is to sell newspapers/magazines, TV and radio airtime and internet space.

When I first noticed this particular story, on the BBC website, my immediate thought was how absolutely devastating it must be to Lily and her partner, and how utterly 'wrong' it seems for anyone to lose a child. Then, I wondered just how 'big' a story it would become. The cult and spectacle of celebrity is now at such an extreme state, that people seem to live out their lives by proxy; that a celebrity suffering the same as them somehow enables their own personal grief to be witnessed by millions, that the whole world can now see what a terrible tragedy they themselves have suffered.

This is what I see happening on this thread. Personally, I think it shows only too well, that we shouldn't suffer alone. But maybe people should consider that others won't necessarily be uncaring, or insensitive, and that they can and will in fact be supportive and caring. I think it's a sad indictment of our society, that our 'communities' are so small that we don't feel supported enough, in dark times. I think one particular recent event has perhaps illustrated this fact only too well. But if people feel that they need to use an internet forum, of all things, to show their feelings, then why not? Let them. If they can somehow find some form of comfort in that sharing process, then let's welcome that. Make them feel that they can, and they don't have to feel so alone.

But by the same token; people must also understand that for others, life carries on. That one person's tragedy may be of complete insignificance to another. That's how the World is; we only have so much compassion to share round. And any discussion of such an emotive subject is bound to bring up strong feelings and emotions; that's inevitable. But if you are going to raise a subject, then you must appreciate that someone else's comments may not be what you absolutely want to hear, and it's not that that person is being nasty or insensitive, but that they feel they have opinions that they also want to share. And regardless of the subject, surely they are entitled to air their own views, as much as you are?

I do think people on both 'sides' here could perhaps have been more sensitive, but surely it's good that such things are being discussed? I think they key thing is that perhaps people need to show, and earn, more [b]respect[/b] for one another in general, in order that threads such as this don't descend into petty bickering and the need for 'point scoring'.

But it's not an ideal World, is it?

Coyote - okay, I see your viewpoint but the comment was pretty naive.

Mrs Toast - grim, really grim. Must have been and clearly was, devastating.

I didn't ever feel it was any harder on me - felt we had all the support we needed and invented ways of coping with it all. IMO my wife dealt with far more than I ever did and I never had a shred of feeling in her shadow. We were in it together - that was it. We took the same path, tried not to "fall off" (to depression) and managed to make it to the other side. Terrible to lose a baby, even worse for one partner to be "lost" to depression.

Elfin - well said too.

Elfin that's the best post I've seen on here in a long time.

We were in it together - that was it.

That's the key. It doesn't matter how much external support you get, you need to be there for each other. I would however disagree about being "lost" to depression. Some individuals manage loss different than others and whilst a couple can be incredibly strong together and support each other, there is no shame if one half needs a little more than emotional support can offer.

Elfin - An eloquent and sensitive post. Very well said.

I can't pretend to know how it feels to lose a child so late on , I have a lovely healthy 5 1/2 year old son who along with my wife is my world.

Nine months after he was born mrs carlos lost our 2nd child at 8 weeks and then early last year we lost twins at 15 weeks. the first time was devastating for both of us and my wife spent nearly 6 months on anti depressants , the 2nd time it happened we were a little more prepared and although still a hard experience was a little easier to deal with.

Next week we have a 20 week scan , hopefully all will be well and we can let our son know to expect a little brother or sister.

One of my very close friends, had a vasectomy and his missus fell pregnant, at 40, they decided to keep it, with their youngest daughter being 13 at the time. She lost the baby, they both went into depression and decided to try again. Went for a checkup two days before she was to be induced, to be told the baby had no heartbeat. She and he were devastated to say the least. It was the worst funeral I have ever been to, the coffin was so small.
They tried again and I now have a little Godson, Aiden, born about five weeks ago, don't think they will ever get over the stillborn, but at least something good has come out of it all. A really horrible couple of years for them both.

Fingers crossed for you carlosg

STW never fails to surprise, shock and disappoint me.

After Hora's prompt to come here and speak out, to share the bad times.
That way perhaps a little help and support can be received when life grabs you by the tender bits and makes you feel a little weak inside.

Things happen in life and when brought to our attention through the media, it can act like a trigger to our past or present experiences and we share the suffering felt by someone else.

Surf-matt would of been well aware of the date and what it means to him, to read that someone else is going through it would of set off an emotion that would lead to thoughts of compassion.
Those thoughts were shared on here.

I've seen threads relating to other celebs, the 'stig' for example.
You could easily suggest that to be a bizarre topic and what importance to us is what he does?
This could be said for alot of threads on here.
Personally if a topic is not of any importance to me, or appears bizarre, i feel no need to comment.

Boredom and nosiness plays a big part in destructive opinion, a thread with a few pages and some players feel the need to contribute, if they can't relate, they generally say stupid and irrational things.

Maybe because i've been through it too, i understood what this thread was really about.

Mini rant over.
For now.

Matt.
I've been meaning to go see the Falkirk wheel since i've been up in Scotland.
So, i got the train over there and rode the 30 odd miles back along the canal path. I was wet, very wet, i think i was in the canal.

It was worth every bit of it.

I'm not really interested in celeb culture but did see about Lilly Allen on the front of a paper and thought; second time thats a bit sh~t really. Got no further empathy or understanding of her situation or anyone else who's been through the same. In no way is it right to go at someone who can empathise or does understand. A world where you're berated and belittle for having feelings and expressing them is no world at all.

My friends lost their little girl during birth earlier this year. As a mere bystander to the whole thing it shocked me how much I felt it for them. Being there literally less than an hour later and then working through the process of recovery with them has been inspiring but even now it upsets me when I think of the little girl who never had a chance to grow up with such amazing parents. Anyone that's been there knows the score. Bad news for sure.

Nice one Sharki - sounds like quite a ride!

sharki - try the whole thing - glasgow - edinburgh, only about 50 miles, brilliant for such a flat run.