[Closed] Libya no-fly zone, for or against?

The UN? The most useless and reactionary organisation in the world! Great idea on paper - hopeless in the real world.

Oh yes the no fly zone. Well I'm for it, as long as we enforce it....

Against it

Only about tn days too late though. They take there time to get going.

I see another behind enemy lines looming.

Against it unless we start taking action in other parts of the world where there are far worse leaders, things going on.

Don't forget this is basically a declaration of war.

against
its clearly not just about shooting planes out of the sky it seems justification for anything short of a ground war so that means bombing airports infrastructure etc
and it was pushed for by France who sold daffi his planes Germany who sold him guns and Britain who also sold him guns and who laughably don't even have an aircraft carrier and are sacking raf pilots at the moment

intact Cameron only just got back from his tour of the middle east with his merchants of death (and even stopped off in Egypt to praise the demonstrators there ) hypocrisy doesn't get much more blatant

For it in principle, however this has vast reaching consequences in the long term for the middle east, especially if other countries start going in the same direction. Where do you stop? How do you differentiate?

Simpler method would be to just send Jason Bourne in with a sniper rifle.

it was pushed for by France who sold daffi his planes Germany who sold him guns

From the beeb:-

Germany, which abstained, will not be contributing to the military effort. Foreign Minister Guido Westerwelle said his government sees "considerable dangers and risks" in military action against Col Gaddafi.

Be interesting to see what planes UK commit to this and what its going to do for the airframe life. You'll be needing those harriers back soon.

fair point on Germany looks like they have a lot of investment there [url=www.blackstarnews.com/news/135/ARTICLE/7167/2011-03-07.html]www.blackstarnews.com/news/135/ARTICLE/7167/2011-03-07.html[/url]

Its too late, looks like Gadafi has already taken the upper hand. I also suspect that Gadafi is getting support from Bahrain and Saudi now, if Gadafi gets overthrown, then it strengthens the protesters in their countries (which are equally as bad as Libya).

Surely true democracy can only happen if it happens from within, and not imposed from without.

I'm against starting another war at a time when we cannot properly care for our old and infirm.

Leave this to the Libyans and their neighbours.

Pointless now, it's too late. It will still be a few days before military action could be taken to enforce it and by then it will pretty much be over.

Great Britain World Police...
Why can't we sit this one out? are our armed forces not stretched enough as it is?

Not against it per se, unsure how effective it will actually be.

Well said Epicyclo.

We should decide whether he is a friend or a foe,it would seem we were courting him and his oil just a few months ago.

Tricky one isn't it - Western countries must be wary of setting a precedent as protestors in other countries may take this as a guarantee of western intervention in their own struggles, which won't happen.

too late? probably not, wars are won from the air, and since this resolution allows pretty much anything short of invasion, the west will make sure that gadaffi goes one way or the other.

What worries me is that Libya talk of talking the fight abroad. Lets not forget what this means. it won't be military action. Libya have a bit of form on making planes blow up.

Worrying times.

Something needs to be done but is this the right thing?

The can of worms this action could open is pretty hefty....

Well they are dammed if they do and dammed if they dont.

No one wants to see civilians killed by a tyrant, but no one wants to get involved.

This does seem a compromise that wont achive much. If it was me, Id invade it and colonise it and sell the oil to pay for it. Or I would ignor it and claim its not my problem - its not that easy to decide.

Where next - Bahrain ?

LHS - Member

Be interesting to see what planes UK commit to this and what its going to do for the airframe life. You'll be needing those harriers back soon.

Air defence variant was scrapped in 2006.

We might have a few up-armoured Chipmunks available.

Tornado GR4s

Air defence variant was scrapped in 2006.

Not sure that's really valid, a lot of money was spent on the harrier fleet to equip them with state of the art surveillance and designator pods for identifying targets etc. In fact tactically they were the most versatile aircraft out there for surveillance, ground attack and air defence.

Air [s]defence[/s] display variant. Corrected for you!

Maybe we could raid the museums too, do Avis rent F16s?

Stopping the use of planes against helpless civilian targets seems like a good idea. Looking forward to seeing one imposed over Gaza.

Anyone who thinks it will take days to act should think 45 minutes because unlike Saddam, France really can deploy weapons of mass destruction in 45 minutes from the base in Corsica.

I just hope the threat will be enough. Even if Sarkozy isn't bluffing he's hoping Gaddafi will act in character and back off rather than risk losing the power base he still has. Gaddafi knows that on a personal level escalation is now suicide for him and his family.

For - provided Arab League league countries join in in a significant way.

Britain readies it's contribution

[IMG] [/IMG]

[IMG] [/IMG]

DrJ - Member
Stopping the use of planes against helpless civilian targets seems like a good idea. Looking forward to seeing one imposed over Gaza.

Why? That would give the impression that the UN uses humanitarian principles and not the interests the security council to decide where and when to deploy troops.That would be a very dangerous precedent

Markie - Member

For - provided Arab League league countries join in in a significant way.

The Arab league won't to get involved, they are too worried about protecting their own tyrannies, and would prefer the wave of uprising to come to a grinding halt in Libya.

Against......we will become the bad guys.

I'm amazed they have taken so long. You can't allow a leader to kill their own people. You have to smack them down to send a message to all the other despotic regimes out there.

Ridiculous.

We have no business interfering in the internal affairs of another country. It will all end in tears

Against

CaptJon - Member

I'm amazed they have taken so long. You can't allow a leader to kill their own people. You have to smack them down to send a message to all the other despotic regimes out there.

No-fly zones over Chechnya and Tibet coming never!

Ridiculous.

We have no business interfering in the internal affairs of another country. It will all end in tears

Against

I'll bet if the RAF was shelling Edinburgh you'd change your mind on that.

I'm not sure sure we will be seen as the bad boys. Defending people that want to be defended is not the same as invading people that don't want to be invaded.

Saudi won't budge, it's just one big American base with a few oil rigs.

We have no business interfering in the internal affairs of another country

Must be really nice for you living in that cosy little bubble.

Chechnya, tibet, gaza city - where is the no fly zones?

LHS - how do you justify interfering in Libya but not in the other countries mentioned?

The Arab league won't to get involved, they are too worried about protecting their own tyrannies, and would prefer the wave of uprising to come to a grinding halt in Libya.

I agree - although there is talk in the papers (well, in the Guardian) about unnamed Arab League countries taking part... I guess countries like Saudi know that should they have the need to apply a little military pressure to their own citizens there is no chance of the world taking against them - the US would veto any such proposals. Gaddafi had started cosying up with the west and in doing so failed to maintain his links with Russia, hence he was left to swing.

Against......we will become the bad guys.

Without the Arab League help, a certainty. Even with it, possible 🙁

That said, how would Gaddafi have responded to the West once he had regained power?

how do you justify interfering in Libya but not in the other countries mentioned?

Why do we have to? Becasue YOU say so? Don't make me laugh!

Chechnya, tibet, gaza city - where are the reports of bombing civilian populations?

http://gizmodo.com/#!5768340/two-libyan-pilots-eject-after-refusing-to-bomb-civilians

LHS - how do you justify interfering in Libya but not in the other countries mentioned?

As far as I am aware the other countries aren't bombing their own people with war planes.

yes PP why should you have a universal moral principle you apply to all situations . .. fluid morality is a much better choice
Why not try and explain why this ok eh?

Why do we have to?

Depends on the question. If the charge is that the UN did nothing to help the Libyan people, then you're right. If the charge is that the UN is a bunch of self-serving hypocrites, then they do.

yes PP why should you have a universal moral principle you apply to all situations . .. fluid morality is a much better choice
Why not try and explain why this ok eh?

Becasue it's not my choice. I don't have to explain, I'm just asking questions.

Gaza and Chechnya both have done in the past - not so sure about Tibet.

Tibet however we see an illegal occupation of a sovereign state by another country