[Closed] Last night when I got home from the pub....

Congratulations, you must feel good inside having successfully lived through poisoning yourself. Not sure it's the sort of post that should be on an open family website though.

Sorry but drugs are for losers. 😈

Glad you enjoyed your escapism though 😀

I think he should post it-good Debate... Dam hippy cyclists...

Family forum? thats a joke right! LOL

I prefer a cycle-delic experience - ride to the top of a mountain and witness the sweeping curves or jutting rocks in an ever changing play of light and shadow
[url= http://www.bogtrotters.org/rides/2009/24jun/311p.jp g" target="_blank">http://www.bogtrotters.org/rides/2009/24jun/311p.jp g"/> [/img][/url]

Sorry but drugs are for losers.

not so there are good drugs and baaad drugs.

penicillin is a drug = good

heroin is also a drug = bad

it depends on your choice of drug

I'm having fun with dihydrocodeine and cocodamol rioght now having broken my collarbone thursday night.

Actually thats a lie, drugs are shite and make me feel sqonky, i'd rather have the pain.

penicillin is a drug = good

Easy for you to say that .......... have you any idea the problems I have satisfying my addiction to warding off bacterial infections ?

you have thrush?

penicillin is a drug = good

I've been taking it for a week or so and it makes me nauseous 🙁

heroin is also a drug = bad

heroin is a perfectly good drug. It's prohibition is what causes all the problems.
[url= http://www.flatearthnews.net/footnotes-book/page-28-heroin/whats-wrong-war-against-drugs ]

Start with the allegation that heroin damages the minds and bodies of those who use it, and consider the biggest study of opiate use ever conducted, on 861 patients at Philadelphia General Hospital in the 1920s. It concluded that they suffered no physical harm of any kind. Their weight, skin condition and dental health were all unaffected. 'There is no evidence of change in the circulatory, hepatic, renal or endocrine functions. When it is considered that some of these subjects had been addicted for at least five years, some of them for as long as twenty years, these negative observations are highly significant.'

[i]Congratulations, you must feel good inside having successfully lived through poisoning yourself. [/i]

I do feel very good inside actually, psilocybin containing mushrooms are a natural entheogen and cleanse the body, not poison it. They have been used for thousands of years by indigenous people all over the planet as a means to having a relationship with spirit, a very important aspect the human condition which is sadly missed these days due to the western 'attitude towards drugs'

Kev

Not sure it's the sort of post that should be on an open family website though.

[img] [/img]

I do feel very good inside actually, psilocybin containing mushrooms are a natural entheogen and cleanse the body, not poison it. They have been used for thousands of years by indigenous people all over the planet as a means to having a relationship with spirit, a very important aspect the human condition which is sadly missed these days due to the western 'attitude towards drugs'

still taste like **** though

They have been used for thousands of years by indigenous people all over the planet

Why can't immigrants use them too ?

boil 'em up, simmer for a few minutes, siv, drink. yummy. doesn't taste too bad. Ayahuasca tastes much worse.

Kev

yay! shrooms. used to pick em wild whe i was in Oz. that was fun; running around off ya tits with a full moon chasing kangeroos.

a few years back now, there used to be a local shop selling 'shrooms.

he'd ask what you wanted; trippy, stoned, mellow, and would take you out back and mix something up.

was a good evening when i arrived at the pub for my mates birthday. everyone was on the beers and i asked for tea-for-2. barmaid gave me a big steaming pot of water and a few teabags.

put half the shrooms in the pot along with a teabag. all i can say that it was very interesting eating in PizzaExpress with all the mirrors everywhere.

great fun.

about 2 weeks later there was a change in the law. you couldn't sell shrooms that were ready but you could still sell the kits. wait six weeks and you'd have a batch ready.

should probably look into buying a kit now as kicks are far and few between (if you exclude the tuppaware box currently full of weed).

yeah, not that bad tasting. drink with something else and a few extra sugars on top (i usually have three sugars in me tea anyway)

It really, really could have been worse mate:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/5748855/Man-cuts-off-own-penis-during-drunk-DIY.html

While alcohol and tobacco remain legal, no criticism can be given to ANY illegal drug

what you mean Bob is that legal drugs arent safe from criticism.

Of course you can criticise illegal drugs, just dont forget to criticise legal ones too.

That's fair comment.

No one criticised the OP for mentioning he was at the pub.

Alcohol and tobacco cause far more death, misery, suffering etc than pretty much all illegal drugs combined!

Just curious but how do you know "
They have been used for thousands of years by indigenous people all over the planet as a means to having a relationship with spirit"

and

"a means to having a relationship with spirit, a very important aspect the human condition"

psylocibin is not a poison. It has no toxic effects. Overdosage is virtually impossible unlike alcohol

No but psilocybin is an illegal drug!

Are shrooms still legal in this country? I can't remember the law on this one, if I remember right you could harvest them, take them and be in posession of them, but drying them or processing them for consumption was illegal?

Shroom tea is very interesting indeed!

It also occurs in naturally growing mushrooms in the UK.

I would love to see the classification of mushrooms as a drug tested. It used to be that they were only considered a "drug" if processed but there was a change in the law a year or two ago.

I just don't see how someone could be fairly prosecuted for what grows on their lawn

I just don't see how someone could be fairly prosecuted for what grows on their lawn

indeed. you should see my lawn.
Do you think Im safe from prosecution?

[img] [/img]

stoner - the difference being psylocibin mushrooms are a native species that grows wild and widely. the law was changed because folk were selling frozen mushrooms that did not break the old law openly but I simply do not see how anyone picking them in the wild could be fairly prosecuted. In theory under the law as it stands now all owners of sheepgrazing land break the law by being in possession of the shrooms every autumn

Where a controlled drug involved is a fungus containing psilocin or an ester of psilocin (commonly known as magic mushrooms) posession will not be unlawful in certain circumstances. Those circs are where the fungus is growing uncultivated and it:
(1) is picked by a person already in lawful possession of it (eg land owner on whose land the mushrooms are growing) for the purpose of delivering it (ASAP) into the custody of a lawful person (eg police). OR
(2) it is picked by anyone for someone to hand to the police.

Otherwise it's still illgeal and is a class A drug!!

there you go TJ, the act of picking not for the purposes in 1 and 2 is the crime, not refining or preparing for consumption.

I imagine there are possibly other narcotic derivatives that can be picked from wild. I wonder at what point hemlock becomes illegal? probably administration 🙂

Stoner - thats the change in the law - thanks for clarifying that Mungechick

so just say that you`re on your way to the police station to hand them in

roper...

[i]The evolution of modern humans has taken more than five million years but until less than 50,000 years ago we had no art, no religion, no sophisticated symbolism, no creative and innovative thinking, and quite possibly no language. Then, a dramatic and electrifying change overtook our ancestors in every part of the globe, and all the skills and qualities that we value most highly in ourselves today appeared suddenly, already fully formed, as though bestowed on us by hidden powers. Scientists describe this change as “the greatest riddle in human history”.
The first art of mankind, in the painted caves and rock-shelters of southwest Europe and South Africa, dates back to the time of the great change. Why do these ancient paintings, tens of thousands of years old, depict beings of a kind that are never found in nature – strange and eerie hybrids with the heads of animals and the bodies of humans? [/i]

taken from here:
http://www.grahamhancock.com/supernatural/

[img] [/img]

Kev

No but psilocybin is an illegal drug!

The law is nonsensical sometimes, I agree.

Mine were picked whilst on a bike ride in Wales. It's ridiculous for someone to attempt to make a mushroom or any plant for that matter illegal and it's ridiculous for anyone to tell me what I can and cannot put into my own body. If I do not have the full sovereignty over my own consciousness then we cannot call our society democratic. I WILL do what I choose with my own mind and no law however absurd is ever going to change that. Religion stem from shamanism and shamanism stems from the ingestion of consciousness altering plants and then other methods to reach similar states of mind were developed later such as Yoga, trance drumming, dancing and fasting etc. All religions speak of a persons transcendent experiences into these realms and governemts today have now made these substances illegal and demonise them to prevent people from having their own real spiritual experiences.

Kev

Keva, you're talking garbage, maybe your mind has already been fried, but it's your right to believe it and use the stuff IMHO.

Just don't extol drug use where impressionable kids can see it please.

Just don't extol drug use where impressionable kids can see it please

Yet we can have a weekly thread with half naked women (and men) for kids to see?

epicyclo - get off your high horse.

Humankind has used drugs as long as there has been humankind. Most of the problems from drugs stem from prohibition not from the drug themselves.

Different societies use different drugs. Ours uses alcohol mainly and that causes far more problems than other drugs used in other societies.

When did you last see a hippy going fighting mad when full of hallucinogens

Perhaps I'm being a little naive here, but if psilocybin is harmless, non-toxic and it's impossible to overdose on it, then why is it classed as an illegal drug? There are lots of poisonous plants growing wild in the countryside that would possibly kill you if you ate them, but there is no raft of laws stating you're not allowed to pick or process, say, poison oak. Why pick on mushrooms? Surely they must have a dark side.

starlet - because the daily wail / neopuritan tendency hate to see people enjoying themselves for free. Its all part of the "war on drugs"

The thing with hallucinogens such as this is that tolerance builds very quickly - so you cannot get stoned on them very often.

I certainly know of no harm that has ever come to anyone from mushrooms. I guess it could act as a trigger for psychotic episodes tho as other hallucinogens can.

It is very safe in overdosage. a dose to get high is 10-50 mushrooms. I know of folk who have had thousands at one go.

No addiction, no withdrawal, no toxicity

Alcohol is harmful, toxic and possible to overdose on.

But it's legal.

A good school friend of mine was finally sectioned (21yr old) after years of experimenting with mushrooms as a kid. Nice bloke he was 🙁

Just as with overdosing on other things though, while the drug itself may not be ultimately deadly, the results can be fairly easily. Friend of the family was killed after running into the street from giant spiders that didnt exist. From my point of view I dont know anyone who has been severely affected from alcohol, in any way. I know a few who have been killed by lung cancer from smoking, and I know 1 that has died from drug use, and several more who've had total personality changes from it. Whether you agree or not, I dont think its a good idea to prattle on about it on a forum.

Starlet [url= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psilocybin_mushrooms ]Wiki has some decent looking info on them[/url]

Reasonably impartial advice
"The risks:

* Ingesting magic mushrooms can cause stomach pains, nausea and vomiting;
* Bad 'trips' can happen, and there's no going back until the effects have worn off;
* Like any hallucinogen, magic mushrooms can complicate existing mental problems;
* Serious health risk and even death may result due to eating the wrong kind of mushrooms;
http://www.thesite.org/drinkanddrugs/drugsafety/drugsatoz/magicmushrooms

Whether you agree or not, I dont think its a good idea to prattle on about it on a forum.

I'd say it's a pretty good place. You can hear opposing viewpoints (as is happening), some anecdotal advice, and some input from healthcare pros.

I'd rather my kids (if I ever have any) were able to read adults discussing the pros and cons in an informal setting, rather than Govt/school/and probably parental dessemination of the subject, which they may not regard as impartial.

Coffeeking. Amongst my friends 1 person with psychosis developed as a youth - probably triggered by cannabis, one dead from a probably deliberate heroin OD, one dead from alcohol and tobacco, one dead from acute alcohol poisoning, one with a stroke from cocaine and smoking, one dead from autoerotic asphyxiation - which all proves nothing.

Why do you make tea from the mushrooms? What's wrong with just eating them? Less likely to destroy the active component, surely, and if you don't like the taste just swallow 'em. Reminds me of all that hash cookie nonsense.

I think they are toxic. I've seen people vomit after eating them. Not as bad as sniffing Lady Esquire shoe conditioner though.

[url=

Say No[/url]

Nico, they can be eaten and i have eaten them in the past but only when they are fresh. These ones were picked back in the autumn time and were dried, so easier to just put some water on them, simmer, sieve and drink. The active ingredient is released into the water and not destroyed.

One of the effects of the mushrooms is feeling a bit pukey but it's not really that uncomfortable. When one is sick it is actually very liberating, I always feel much better when Ive been sick as it's a way of purging negative energies and cleansing the body.

In the Amazonia region of South America where Ayahuasca is used to enter the realms of spirit the drink is called La Purga, becuase of it's purgative effects.

http://www.ayahuasca.com/?p=35

Nico, they can be eaten and i have eaten them in the past but only when they are fresh. These ones were picked back in the autumn time and were dried, so easier to just put some water on them, simmer, sieve and drink. The active ingredient is released into the water and not destroyed.

One of the effects of the mushrooms is feeling a bit pukey but it's not really that uncomfortable. When one is sick it is actually very liberating, I always feel much better when Ive been sick as it's a way of purging negative energies and cleansing the body.

In the Amazonia region of South America where Ayahuasca is used to enter the realms of spirit the drink is called La Purga, becuase of it's purgative effects.

http://www.ayahuasca.com/?p=35
/p>

Kev

I was chased by giant rats during the night laps of a 24 hour solo once. I still have flashbacks. XC only for me these days. Moderate use. People ask me if I'm ever going back to solo racing and I Just Say No.

As a general rule of thumb, if you've never taken any illegal drug, then your opinion counts for f*ck all.

I always feel much better when Ive been sick as it's a way of purging negative energies and cleansing the body.

I ain't gonna let that go - that is just so much pish I am afraid. Puking is always bad for you unless its to get rid of rubbish in your stomach

Make your points in the debate about drugs by all means but statements such as that add nothing to the debate but put the straight boys off.

I have two dead alcoholic friends neither of whom reached 40. Amasingly none of my peers died of an overdose\drugs ...personally I blame Thatcher though as drugs were dear in those days and the dole barely enough to go out on 😉

I suggest you read some impartial information on this subject regarding deaths, crime, hospital admissions before reaching your legal /illegal knee jerk reactions .... Alcohol is the highest in all of these BTW including per thousand users.

oh here it is to save some time
UK drug death figures: deaths per annum
Alcohol[1] 4,235
Tobacco[1] 120,000
The Herb[1,] 1 - they choked on/inhaled their own vomit
LSD[1] 0
Peanuts[3] 7
Viagra[3] 7
Ecstasy[1] 4

source is Hansard

Drug deaths are hard to calculate as no one records official figures but they are estimated to be about 1000 with 60 % being Methadone and 20 % + being heroin and 15 % temazepan ...those wise ones amongst you will notice that two of those are prescription meds
Note your moral outrage is not really matched by anything objective or impartial hence why the education of young people to the dangers is rather difficult as the legal ones are the most dangerous

Would not post up on a forum about it mind but glad the OP had a good night

Mental health/depression issues dont tend to kill you as a rule. Just a living death thank you.

Yeah Im not keen on drug use (all kinds) - seen too many casualties from abuse..All drugs have their downside, there isnt one that doesnt have potential side affects. All the stoners who want to trump on about "energies" & therapeutic affects - thats fine but cough up & admit that using these substances does have risks & there are good reasons for there use being illegal. Leave the psuedo pollitical conspiracy theories with The Flat Earth Society..

From my point of view I dont know anyone who has been severely affected from alcohol, in any way.

Give it time, and you will. My experience is entirely opposite from yours WRT alcohol and illegal drugs, yet I'd not seek to stop people posting on the eating, listening, drinking thread, or any others which promote alcohol use. Personally I think it's important to have the debate, and for everyone to realise that nothing about the issue is particularly clear cut.

As a general rule of thumb, if you've never taken any illegal drug, then your opinion counts for f*ck all.

That's completely wrong though. Those people can comment on how their lives are different through not taking drugs, often for the better. Just as you or I can comment on the other side of things.

Repack - some drugs have major undesirable effects but some illegal ones simply do not. Lost of research about this. There was the UN report on cocaine which the USA government got squashed because it showed little harm from usage. Big survey on Heroin use - showed again very little harm.

Many of the bad effects are from prohibition not from the useage.

alcohol shows underlining problems, highlights them. Never alone does it cause a problem. i.e. You dont suddenly consistantly drink alot of alcohol because its 'ace'. You used it as a crutch, to unwind, to forget a problem.

So, the problems are already underlining/there.

Drugs however are chemical and mind altering. Sorry, the depression I felt from smoking Skunk was sheer awful. I almost wanted to relight up to get rid. Thank f*ck I grew out of it, same goes for coke users. The bollocks coke users talks makes me want to hit them with a lamp or chair.

Those people can comment on how their lives are different through not taking drugs, often for the better.

Nonsense.

How can someone comment on anything being different if they don't know what it's different from.

A person can't say "My life's better because I've never taken LSD"

How would they possibly know? They could have taken it and went on to have the most profound thoughts, realised so much and done so much more. Alternatively their life could have became a living hell.

Quite simply, you can't offer an opinion on something you have no experience of.

It would be like someone asking opinions on a bike, and a bunch of people who'd never ridden it firmly stating if they thought it was good or bad. How could they possibly know?

Hey TJ.

Im sorry some illegal ones dont have side affects??? Lets get away from the argument of prohibition for a second but do you seriously believe there is such a thing as risk free drug use? Show me any drug that doesnt have any potential ill affects..I cant think of one that doesnt have the potential for harm..

ps got a helmet yet? 😉

NOstoc if you're on route to the station to hand it in it's a defence in law to it....so just say that everytime 😉 they may cotton on after a while though!

Show me any drug that doesnt have any potential ill affects

Mountain biking has ill effects. Injuries for example.

Alcohol has ill effects. Alcoholism for example.

Sunbathing has ill effects. Skin cancer for example.

Eating has ill effects. Obesity for example.

etc etc

Just about everything you can possibly imagine has ill effects, if done in excess. Moderation is the key with everything in life.

MM still not sure about moderation for heroin! Deal with far to many addicts daily to believe that it can be used as a recreational drug and not have massive life changing effects, mental health and problems etc!

As a general rule of thumb, if you've never taken any illegal drug, then your opinion counts for f*ck all.

What utter tripe. Unless you're talking in a context of what it's like to do illegal drugs; any other context the lack of consumption of does not preclude a useful view of the use of drugs. I dont have to stand in front of a train to know it's likely to be dangerous. I dont have to stand in front of the train to judge that all the people standing in front of the train are likely to get injured, some moreso than others and that there will be an element of luck involved.

Sunbathing, eating etc are all totally different to drugs - with many drugs you CAN have life-altering reactions with one moderate use.

As I say, regardless of whether you think drugs are a good or a bad thing, and what your preferences are, I simply dont think its a good idea to extol its virtues somewhere that impressionable people can view it. I wouldnt advocate going and getting smashed on alcohol, smoking or overeating on a forum, likewise I wouldnt advocate using any illegal drug. Doing so is irresponsible. Like with religion, make the choice yourself, dont waffle about it to others and say how good it is.

There was a respected doctor that came out couple of years ago and said it was possible for someone to maintain a heroin habit and lead a normal life i.e. marriage, job etc.

Caused outrage.

Heroin's a tricky one though as statistically you're more likely to find it in deprived areas, whereas every doctor, lawyer, accountant etc that I've ever known has been heavily into "recreational" drugs i.e. coke, mdma at some point.

From my experience, doctors are the very worst!

I'm in quite close friends with a few doctors, none of them have a habit other than the old post-work beer or 3. Dont know any lawyers so cant comment on that.

Drugs however are chemical and mind altering.

Hora, alcohol is a drug. It's also a chemical, and a depressant, i.e mind altering. Apart from those three facts, your sentence was correct 😉

IME, people use drugs (including alcohol) for all sorts of reasons. Sometimes to cover up underlying issue, sometimes simply to have a good time. Often, it's both of these at once. As someone said, moderation is extremely important.

The bollocks coke users talks makes me want to hit them with a lamp or chair.

Alcohol is well known for inciting violence. Have you thought about getting help?

Alcohol is well known for inciting violence. Have you thought about getting help?

Thats a fairly natural response even without alcohol 😀

I dont have to stand in front of a train to know it's likely to be dangerous.

You don't need to do/use something to know the dangers.

However your analogy was poor because statistically, taking any drug is much safer than standing in front of a train.

someone who's never taken any drugs can't say "drugs are bad"

how could they possibly know? they cannot even begin to comment on the experience and as I said, statistically, there are tens of thousands of legal substances/ products/ activities that are far more harmful than drugs. So they can't possibly be commenting on the dangers. if they are, then they're wrong.

So they must be commenting on the experience of taking drugs and once again, if you haven't experienced it, you can't possibly comment on it.

I'm in quite close friends with a few doctors, none of them have a habit other than the old post-work beer or 3.

They're all fiends in my experience. Quite worrying when a lot of them have surgery on a Monday.

I dont touch anything these days other than the evil ciggies,i hardly even drink,i must have about 30 units per year,mostly at christmas/new year.
I tried mushrooms in my youth,i got convinced by a mate to try them,he insisted he knew all about them
Turns out he didnt have a clue and just wanted somebody to trip with.
We had approximately 2000 😯
boiled up into 3 cups of sweetened coffee each,and drank it in about an hour.
The next 2 days were 'interesting' to say the least,until then i'd never travelled on the astral plane,im not sure i would have wanted to,had i the choice,which at that time i didnt 😆 😆 😆

MM still not sure about moderation for heroin! Deal with far to many addicts daily [b]to believe that it can be used as a recreational drug[/b] and not have massive life changing effects, mental health and problems etc!

I'll only speak for myself, and contradict you.

I'm sure that if alcoholics were not tolerated in society you'd be inundated with them too.

with many drugs you CAN have life-altering reactions with one moderate use.

Often those life altering reactions are for the better though. And that isn't true for the majority of drugs. I don't personally feel that it's healthy to stifle the debate. I know that when I was young, the kids who really pushed it had parents with just say no attitudes. My kids, should I have any, will be educated and informed.

Bob, I'm going to agree with Coffeeking on the right to comment. You have no way of knowing for sure how your life would have turned out if you'd not taken drugs, so it isn't straightforward. People are often anti-drugs because of things they've seen. You can offer an alterative view, but that doesn't make their experiences invalid.

how could they possibly know?

The train analogy was an extreme. Pointless analogising with something equaly obscure.

Because you dont have to use something to see the danger. USING the drug doesnt provide any more or less knowledge of its dangers, only knowledge of its physical effects. Often users are oblivious to the effects that others can see from the outside very easily, so you could say that the users are actually less well placed to identify the problems. Certainly a number of my pot-smoking mates were convinced they hadn't changed at all when they'd all (OK the majority) become slow, moody and paranoid. All the "clean" mates in the group could see it and made comment but it just provoked and angry reaction from them.

I can't really continue with arguing this because I have views fixed by my and my friends/family experiences with it. I will always hold those views as I believe statistics are easily massaged and badly collected in this arena, they rarely match what I and several other mates have witnessed. Maybe I'm in a minority where most people I know dont have a drug or alcohol problem and the majority of those who I do know who use drugs have been seriously affected by them. But that is how my views will stay, I choose to base my views on a fairly reasonable life experience around them, you may consider that incorrect. Fair enough. But back to the point, I believe its best not to publicise it as a thing to do. Debate it sure, but you'd get the same response from me if you (or the OP)came on chatting about how they got absolutely wasted using alcohol to extremes etc etc.

I know that when I was young, the kids who really pushed it had parents with just say no attitudes.

Not wishing to be contrary at all, but thats the exact opposite of my experience - the mates whos parents were "if you do it in your room youre safe" were the ones with the kids who would get smashed off their face on alcohol/drugs and often ended up in hospital. And their mates joined them in their house in order to get like that.

Repack - the point I tried to make was that some illegal drugs do not have major undesirable effects Heroin is one strangely enough. If you have a clean supply of smack at prices you can afford then having a heroin habit has very little effect on your body. Life expectancy and kidney / liver function and intelligence are basically unaffected. William Burroughs was a junky for 50 yrs

Turns you into a very dull person tho.

Coffeeking - one point on that is you are mixing up the effects of the drugs and the effects of prohibition and of ignorance. I know some folk who take a fair amount of drugs and still lead responsible normal lives. Its if the drugs take over your life you get problems.

Lets take the example of Leah Betts - the UKs most famous ecstasy casualty. She took an E. She panicked. She had heard that water was a good idea if you had E - so she drank enough water to cause swelling of the brain and died of that. If the E had been legal she would have had access to better information about it, she or her friends would have been able to get advice without risk of prosecution once she had panicked and she would not have died. She also took a near fatal dose of distalgesic as well.

My view is that keeping drugs illegal causes more problems than legalising would and treating it as a health issue. Prohibition has simply failed and causes major problems such as a large % of crime in this country and wreaks the economies and political establishments of producer countries.

proabition's bad mkay.

coffeking
There is a quality to experience (Qualia) that can only be gained by actually doing.
Could someone know what it is like to ride a bike without actually riding it ? *

That said you have every RIGHT to comment on this debate to claim other wise is just nonesense.

Also anti prohibition whatever your views (and on abortion and prostitution) you wont prevent them occuring simply by making them illegal and IMHO you make the issue worse by driving it underground.
* see also Mary Rooms /Blind mary if you want a larger discussion on this

I can't really continue with arguing this because I have views fixed by my and my friends/family experiences with it. I will always hold those views as I believe statistics are easily massaged and badly collected in this arena, they rarely match what I and several other mates have witnessed. Maybe I'm in a minority where most people I know dont have a drug or alcohol problem and the majority of those who I do know who use drugs have been seriously affected by them. But that is how my views will stay, I choose to base my views on a fairly reasonable life experience around them, you may consider that incorrect.

Yes, but you're basing your judgement on the experiences of others, not your own. It's far better to experience things for yourself and have a true picture of what's involved. Ultimately people who end up in a mess with drink or drugs usually have a pre-disposed nature to gravitate towards a non-conventional lifestyle.

To paraphrase Bill Hicks, news stories about people taking acid and jumping off tall buildings thinking they could fly. As Bill said, what f*cking idiots. If they thought they could fly, why didn't they take off from the ground? Some people are idiots to start with and it doesn't take drugs to make them that way.

If you do it in your room you're safe isn't what I'm saying though. Because that's clearly wrong (although doing anything in a safe environment is better). What I'm advocating is more emphasis on what drugs do, more knowledge about what is dangerous, rather than just a sweeping of the issue under the carpet. Look at the guy who took 2000 mushrooms! Proper education, wouldn't have happened.

One thing I keep noticing Coffeeking is that you seem to equate any drug use at all with getting utterly smashed on alcohol. If your friends are moody and depressed then they're smoking too much, but that doesn't make dope the problem, it's their attitude towards using it.

In this country, we have a huge problem with drug use, both illegal and legal. I think it urgently needs adressing or the population as a whole is going to be dealing with incredible health issues in the next few decades. I don't see either prohibition or avoiding the issues as being helpful. On the upside, this is a good debate, and I agree with some of your points and am learning from others.