Coffeeking. Amongst my friends 1 person with psychosis developed as a youth - probably triggered by cannabis, one dead from a probably deliberate heroin OD, one dead from alcohol and tobacco, one dead from acute alcohol poisoning, one with a stroke from cocaine and smoking, one dead from autoerotic asphyxiation - which all proves nothing.
Why do you make tea from the mushrooms? What's wrong with just eating them? Less likely to destroy the active component, surely, and if you don't like the taste just swallow 'em. Reminds me of all that hash cookie nonsense.
I think they are toxic. I've seen people vomit after eating them. Not as bad as sniffing Lady Esquire shoe conditioner though.
[url=
Say No[/url]
Nico, they can be eaten and i have eaten them in the past but only when they are fresh. These ones were picked back in the autumn time and were dried, so easier to just put some water on them, simmer, sieve and drink. The active ingredient is released into the water and not destroyed.
One of the effects of the mushrooms is feeling a bit pukey but it's not really that uncomfortable. When one is sick it is actually very liberating, I always feel much better when Ive been sick as it's a way of purging negative energies and cleansing the body.
In the Amazonia region of South America where Ayahuasca is used to enter the realms of spirit the drink is called La Purga, becuase of it's purgative effects.
http://www.ayahuasca.com/?p=35
Nico, they can be eaten and i have eaten them in the past but only when they are fresh. These ones were picked back in the autumn time and were dried, so easier to just put some water on them, simmer, sieve and drink. The active ingredient is released into the water and not destroyed.
One of the effects of the mushrooms is feeling a bit pukey but it's not really that uncomfortable. When one is sick it is actually very liberating, I always feel much better when Ive been sick as it's a way of purging negative energies and cleansing the body.
In the Amazonia region of South America where Ayahuasca is used to enter the realms of spirit the drink is called La Purga, becuase of it's purgative effects.
http://www.ayahuasca.com/?p=35
/p>
Kev
I was chased by giant rats during the night laps of a 24 hour solo once. I still have flashbacks. XC only for me these days. Moderate use. People ask me if I'm ever going back to solo racing and I Just Say No.
As a general rule of thumb, if you've never taken any illegal drug, then your opinion counts for f*ck all.
I always feel much better when Ive been sick as it's a way of purging negative energies and cleansing the body.
I ain't gonna let that go - that is just so much pish I am afraid. Puking is always bad for you unless its to get rid of rubbish in your stomach
Make your points in the debate about drugs by all means but statements such as that add nothing to the debate but put the straight boys off.
I have two dead alcoholic friends neither of whom reached 40. Amasingly none of my peers died of an overdose\drugs ...personally I blame Thatcher though as drugs were dear in those days and the dole barely enough to go out on 😉
I suggest you read some impartial information on this subject regarding deaths, crime, hospital admissions before reaching your legal /illegal knee jerk reactions .... Alcohol is the highest in all of these BTW including per thousand users.
oh here it is to save some time
UK drug death figures: deaths per annum
Alcohol[1] 4,235
Tobacco[1] 120,000
The Herb[1,] 1 - they choked on/inhaled their own vomit
LSD[1] 0
Peanuts[3] 7
Viagra[3] 7
Ecstasy[1] 4
source is Hansard
Drug deaths are hard to calculate as no one records official figures but they are estimated to be about 1000 with 60 % being Methadone and 20 % + being heroin and 15 % temazepan ...those wise ones amongst you will notice that two of those are prescription meds
Note your moral outrage is not really matched by anything objective or impartial hence why the education of young people to the dangers is rather difficult as the legal ones are the most dangerous
Would not post up on a forum about it mind but glad the OP had a good night
Mental health/depression issues dont tend to kill you as a rule. Just a living death thank you.
Yeah Im not keen on drug use (all kinds) - seen too many casualties from abuse..All drugs have their downside, there isnt one that doesnt have potential side affects. All the stoners who want to trump on about "energies" & therapeutic affects - thats fine but cough up & admit that using these substances does have risks & there are good reasons for there use being illegal. Leave the psuedo pollitical conspiracy theories with The Flat Earth Society..
From my point of view I dont know anyone who has been severely affected from alcohol, in any way.
Give it time, and you will. My experience is entirely opposite from yours WRT alcohol and illegal drugs, yet I'd not seek to stop people posting on the eating, listening, drinking thread, or any others which promote alcohol use. Personally I think it's important to have the debate, and for everyone to realise that nothing about the issue is particularly clear cut.
As a general rule of thumb, if you've never taken any illegal drug, then your opinion counts for f*ck all.
That's completely wrong though. Those people can comment on how their lives are different through not taking drugs, often for the better. Just as you or I can comment on the other side of things.
Repack - some drugs have major undesirable effects but some illegal ones simply do not. Lost of research about this. There was the UN report on cocaine which the USA government got squashed because it showed little harm from usage. Big survey on Heroin use - showed again very little harm.
Many of the bad effects are from prohibition not from the useage.
alcohol shows underlining problems, highlights them. Never alone does it cause a problem. i.e. You dont suddenly consistantly drink alot of alcohol because its 'ace'. You used it as a crutch, to unwind, to forget a problem.
So, the problems are already underlining/there.
Drugs however are chemical and mind altering. Sorry, the depression I felt from smoking Skunk was sheer awful. I almost wanted to relight up to get rid. Thank f*ck I grew out of it, same goes for coke users. The bollocks coke users talks makes me want to hit them with a lamp or chair.
Those people can comment on how their lives are different through not taking drugs, often for the better.
Nonsense.
How can someone comment on anything being different if they don't know what it's different from.
A person can't say "My life's better because I've never taken LSD"
How would they possibly know? They could have taken it and went on to have the most profound thoughts, realised so much and done so much more. Alternatively their life could have became a living hell.
Quite simply, you can't offer an opinion on something you have no experience of.
It would be like someone asking opinions on a bike, and a bunch of people who'd never ridden it firmly stating if they thought it was good or bad. How could they possibly know?
Hey TJ.
Im sorry some illegal ones dont have side affects??? Lets get away from the argument of prohibition for a second but do you seriously believe there is such a thing as risk free drug use? Show me any drug that doesnt have any potential ill affects..I cant think of one that doesnt have the potential for harm..
ps got a helmet yet? 😉
NOstoc if you're on route to the station to hand it in it's a defence in law to it....so just say that everytime 😉 they may cotton on after a while though!
Show me any drug that doesnt have any potential ill affects
Mountain biking has ill effects. Injuries for example.
Alcohol has ill effects. Alcoholism for example.
Sunbathing has ill effects. Skin cancer for example.
Eating has ill effects. Obesity for example.
etc etc
Just about everything you can possibly imagine has ill effects, if done in excess. Moderation is the key with everything in life.
MM still not sure about moderation for heroin! Deal with far to many addicts daily to believe that it can be used as a recreational drug and not have massive life changing effects, mental health and problems etc!
As a general rule of thumb, if you've never taken any illegal drug, then your opinion counts for f*ck all.
What utter tripe. Unless you're talking in a context of what it's like to do illegal drugs; any other context the lack of consumption of does not preclude a useful view of the use of drugs. I dont have to stand in front of a train to know it's likely to be dangerous. I dont have to stand in front of the train to judge that all the people standing in front of the train are likely to get injured, some moreso than others and that there will be an element of luck involved.
Sunbathing, eating etc are all totally different to drugs - with many drugs you CAN have life-altering reactions with one moderate use.
As I say, regardless of whether you think drugs are a good or a bad thing, and what your preferences are, I simply dont think its a good idea to extol its virtues somewhere that impressionable people can view it. I wouldnt advocate going and getting smashed on alcohol, smoking or overeating on a forum, likewise I wouldnt advocate using any illegal drug. Doing so is irresponsible. Like with religion, make the choice yourself, dont waffle about it to others and say how good it is.
There was a respected doctor that came out couple of years ago and said it was possible for someone to maintain a heroin habit and lead a normal life i.e. marriage, job etc.
Caused outrage.
Heroin's a tricky one though as statistically you're more likely to find it in deprived areas, whereas every doctor, lawyer, accountant etc that I've ever known has been heavily into "recreational" drugs i.e. coke, mdma at some point.
From my experience, doctors are the very worst!
I'm in quite close friends with a few doctors, none of them have a habit other than the old post-work beer or 3. Dont know any lawyers so cant comment on that.
Drugs however are chemical and mind altering.
Hora, alcohol is a drug. It's also a chemical, and a depressant, i.e mind altering. Apart from those three facts, your sentence was correct 😉
IME, people use drugs (including alcohol) for all sorts of reasons. Sometimes to cover up underlying issue, sometimes simply to have a good time. Often, it's both of these at once. As someone said, moderation is extremely important.
The bollocks coke users talks makes me want to hit them with a lamp or chair.
Alcohol is well known for inciting violence. Have you thought about getting help?
Alcohol is well known for inciting violence. Have you thought about getting help?
Thats a fairly natural response even without alcohol 😀
I dont have to stand in front of a train to know it's likely to be dangerous.
You don't need to do/use something to know the dangers.
However your analogy was poor because statistically, taking any drug is much safer than standing in front of a train.
someone who's never taken any drugs can't say "drugs are bad"
how could they possibly know? they cannot even begin to comment on the experience and as I said, statistically, there are tens of thousands of legal substances/ products/ activities that are far more harmful than drugs. So they can't possibly be commenting on the dangers. if they are, then they're wrong.
So they must be commenting on the experience of taking drugs and once again, if you haven't experienced it, you can't possibly comment on it.
I'm in quite close friends with a few doctors, none of them have a habit other than the old post-work beer or 3.
They're all fiends in my experience. Quite worrying when a lot of them have surgery on a Monday.
I dont touch anything these days other than the evil ciggies,i hardly even drink,i must have about 30 units per year,mostly at christmas/new year.
I tried mushrooms in my youth,i got convinced by a mate to try them,he insisted he knew all about them
Turns out he didnt have a clue and just wanted somebody to trip with.
We had approximately 2000 😯
boiled up into 3 cups of sweetened coffee each,and drank it in about an hour.
The next 2 days were 'interesting' to say the least,until then i'd never travelled on the astral plane,im not sure i would have wanted to,had i the choice,which at that time i didnt 😆 😆 😆
MM still not sure about moderation for heroin! Deal with far to many addicts daily [b]to believe that it can be used as a recreational drug[/b] and not have massive life changing effects, mental health and problems etc!
I'll only speak for myself, and contradict you.
I'm sure that if alcoholics were not tolerated in society you'd be inundated with them too.
with many drugs you CAN have life-altering reactions with one moderate use.
Often those life altering reactions are for the better though. And that isn't true for the majority of drugs. I don't personally feel that it's healthy to stifle the debate. I know that when I was young, the kids who really pushed it had parents with just say no attitudes. My kids, should I have any, will be educated and informed.
Bob, I'm going to agree with Coffeeking on the right to comment. You have no way of knowing for sure how your life would have turned out if you'd not taken drugs, so it isn't straightforward. People are often anti-drugs because of things they've seen. You can offer an alterative view, but that doesn't make their experiences invalid.
how could they possibly know?
The train analogy was an extreme. Pointless analogising with something equaly obscure.
Because you dont have to use something to see the danger. USING the drug doesnt provide any more or less knowledge of its dangers, only knowledge of its physical effects. Often users are oblivious to the effects that others can see from the outside very easily, so you could say that the users are actually less well placed to identify the problems. Certainly a number of my pot-smoking mates were convinced they hadn't changed at all when they'd all (OK the majority) become slow, moody and paranoid. All the "clean" mates in the group could see it and made comment but it just provoked and angry reaction from them.
I can't really continue with arguing this because I have views fixed by my and my friends/family experiences with it. I will always hold those views as I believe statistics are easily massaged and badly collected in this arena, they rarely match what I and several other mates have witnessed. Maybe I'm in a minority where most people I know dont have a drug or alcohol problem and the majority of those who I do know who use drugs have been seriously affected by them. But that is how my views will stay, I choose to base my views on a fairly reasonable life experience around them, you may consider that incorrect. Fair enough. But back to the point, I believe its best not to publicise it as a thing to do. Debate it sure, but you'd get the same response from me if you (or the OP)came on chatting about how they got absolutely wasted using alcohol to extremes etc etc.
I know that when I was young, the kids who really pushed it had parents with just say no attitudes.
Not wishing to be contrary at all, but thats the exact opposite of my experience - the mates whos parents were "if you do it in your room youre safe" were the ones with the kids who would get smashed off their face on alcohol/drugs and often ended up in hospital. And their mates joined them in their house in order to get like that.
Repack - the point I tried to make was that some illegal drugs do not have major undesirable effects Heroin is one strangely enough. If you have a clean supply of smack at prices you can afford then having a heroin habit has very little effect on your body. Life expectancy and kidney / liver function and intelligence are basically unaffected. William Burroughs was a junky for 50 yrs
Turns you into a very dull person tho.
Coffeeking - one point on that is you are mixing up the effects of the drugs and the effects of prohibition and of ignorance. I know some folk who take a fair amount of drugs and still lead responsible normal lives. Its if the drugs take over your life you get problems.
Lets take the example of Leah Betts - the UKs most famous ecstasy casualty. She took an E. She panicked. She had heard that water was a good idea if you had E - so she drank enough water to cause swelling of the brain and died of that. If the E had been legal she would have had access to better information about it, she or her friends would have been able to get advice without risk of prosecution once she had panicked and she would not have died. She also took a near fatal dose of distalgesic as well.
My view is that keeping drugs illegal causes more problems than legalising would and treating it as a health issue. Prohibition has simply failed and causes major problems such as a large % of crime in this country and wreaks the economies and political establishments of producer countries.
proabition's bad mkay.
coffeking
There is a quality to experience (Qualia) that can only be gained by actually doing.
Could someone know what it is like to ride a bike without actually riding it ? *
That said you have every RIGHT to comment on this debate to claim other wise is just nonesense.
Also anti prohibition whatever your views (and on abortion and prostitution) you wont prevent them occuring simply by making them illegal and IMHO you make the issue worse by driving it underground.
* see also Mary Rooms /Blind mary if you want a larger discussion on this
I can't really continue with arguing this because I have views fixed by my and my friends/family experiences with it. I will always hold those views as I believe statistics are easily massaged and badly collected in this arena, they rarely match what I and several other mates have witnessed. Maybe I'm in a minority where most people I know dont have a drug or alcohol problem and the majority of those who I do know who use drugs have been seriously affected by them. But that is how my views will stay, I choose to base my views on a fairly reasonable life experience around them, you may consider that incorrect.
Yes, but you're basing your judgement on the experiences of others, not your own. It's far better to experience things for yourself and have a true picture of what's involved. Ultimately people who end up in a mess with drink or drugs usually have a pre-disposed nature to gravitate towards a non-conventional lifestyle.
To paraphrase Bill Hicks, news stories about people taking acid and jumping off tall buildings thinking they could fly. As Bill said, what f*cking idiots. If they thought they could fly, why didn't they take off from the ground? Some people are idiots to start with and it doesn't take drugs to make them that way.
If you do it in your room you're safe isn't what I'm saying though. Because that's clearly wrong (although doing anything in a safe environment is better). What I'm advocating is more emphasis on what drugs do, more knowledge about what is dangerous, rather than just a sweeping of the issue under the carpet. Look at the guy who took 2000 mushrooms! Proper education, wouldn't have happened.
One thing I keep noticing Coffeeking is that you seem to equate any drug use at all with getting utterly smashed on alcohol. If your friends are moody and depressed then they're smoking too much, but that doesn't make dope the problem, it's their attitude towards using it.
In this country, we have a huge problem with drug use, both illegal and legal. I think it urgently needs adressing or the population as a whole is going to be dealing with incredible health issues in the next few decades. I don't see either prohibition or avoiding the issues as being helpful. On the upside, this is a good debate, and I agree with some of your points and am learning from others.
Jesus CK, you sound like a Yank.
USING the drug doesnt provide any more or less knowledge of its dangers, only knowledge of its physical effects.
Bollocks, I know what a bad trip or smoking too much weed feels like. That's what is [b]dangerous[/b] about that type of drug, not it's physical effects, which are non existent or negligable. And I'll be able to explain that to my children should the time come a hell of a lot better than someone who hasn't the faintest idea of how it feels.
I will always hold those views as I believe statistics are easily massaged and badly collected in this arena,
And TJ mentioned the American research that recently concluded that Cocaine was not when used in moderation dangerous. That study was mentioned recently in the Guardian, as it was suppressed by the US govt as it contradicts their official policy. So who's massaging the stats?
Plenty of peope have taken, or do take illegal as well as legal drugs on a regular basis to no harm to themselves or others around them. Some people take something once or twice and it messes them up, or some people slowly become alcoholics or addicted to tobbaco, and rot. Talking about it is a good idea. Life and drug use isn't as black and white as it it sounds like you think it is.
lol, arguing about drugs on the internet, can't anyone see how futile that's going to be?
BoardinBob
There was a respected doctor that came out couple of years ago and said it was possible for someone to maintain a heroin habit and lead a normal life i.e. marriage, job etc.
IME (not personal!) that's completely true. I have a very good mate who's been on the gear for over 12 years. He runs a sucessful business, is married to a lovely girl and has three well behaved, well brought up children.
I asked him very recently (at Inners, doing the XC route!) why on Earth he hadn't kicked it into touch. He replied that he's "self medicating". And when I thought back to his pre-smack days, it's true - he was a miserable sod - perhaps not clinically depressed, but certainly not far off. He reckoned the gear helps him stay motivated and maintain a positive view on life in general.
I still reckon he's missing some of the best years of being a dad to his kids though - surely he can't be 'there' properly if he's in a permanent half-dream?!
And yes, he does have to deal with some truly scummy folk to keep his supply going - prohibit prohibition I say...
[i]"No bird soars too high if he soars with his own wings"[/i]
- Blake.
As a kid, I went out raving a fair bit - whilst completely straight. I was entirely aware of what I was missing out on, but I just liked dancing to the new and strange [url=
Whatever their alleged benefits, I'd rather read a book.
All IMO, of course. 🙂
RichPennyWhat I'm advocating is more emphasis on what drugs do, [b]more knowledge about what is dangerous[/b], rather than just a sweeping of the issue under the carpet. Look at the guy who took 2000 mushrooms! [b]Proper education, wouldn't have happened.[/b]
Cigarette packets have a big warning on the side telling people that cigarettes will kill them. It doesn't stop people doing it though.
Always said this. Drugs in your 20's. Cool/experimenting/living it up
Drugs in your 30's+. Abit sad really as you are dependent/hooked/a user.
Drugs in your 30's+. Abit sad really as you are dependent/hooked/a user.
Or just missed out on it first time round so therefore
Cool/experimenting/living it up
Hora - pish!
Have you stopped drinking? Its an addictive dangerous and toxic drug.
Mungechick - the point about heroin users I made was fairly obviously devils advocate - but the non chaotic users simply don't come to the attention of the police.
How much police time is taken up with junkie wasters? IME a lot - and the judicial interventions actually don't seem to achieve anything. this is why I would prefer to remove drugs in large from the judicial sphere and move them into healthcare - its a purely pragmatic solution to reduce the crime the junkies cause and to free up police time. It would be cheaper for us as a country simply to give them free smack of pharmacutical grades. Far less crime, far less health issues
There was something on the news the other day about Portugal (I think it was there) where they removed all the illegality of drugs a couple of years back. Now they have far less problems than they used to have. Probably just because its not registered as criminal activity therefore not registered at all, but crack on I say.
Sorry, its sad. It smacks me of someone trying to either reclaim their youth or someone who still hasnt found themselves. What next? Basball caps backtofront in your 40's and wearing surf street clothing?
I also think recreational drug users in their 30's probably live with their parents or with their mates. The reality is they probably dont but its the image of lack of responsibility IMO.
Sorry, 20's. Yes, 30's abit creepy.
