Laptop for Software Engineering at Uni - Light & Portable or Big & Powerful?

To do what?

The fact of the matter is that most laptops today are good enough for most purposes.  My Dell from 2008 can run Word and a web browser.  If the course has specific requirements then that's a question for the university.  Personally I'd be prioritising screen and a decent keyboard (14" is on the small side, I sure as hell wouldn't want to be doing dev work on that).

If he's using it at home / Halls then maybe budget for an external monitor / keyboard / mouse?

Mac fanboys incoming in 5... 4... 3... 😁

I use HP Z-Books and have for around 6 years now.  They’re not the most portable but offer a good balance of power, endurance and weight and have a variable spec to suit your needs.  

I didn't do CS at uni, but I am a software engineer. Thinish and light, but with memory maxed out, is my preferred choice. Possibly if their course involved lots of GPU intensive work, they'd want something a bit beefier - but also I'd assume that the uni would have somewhere for students to run workloads.

Maybe a slim portable laptop, and a decent TV in his digs that can double as a monitor he can plug into, to get a bigger screen?

You also say 'dev work' - will a lot of heavy lifting need to be done on the laptop? or will he be connecting to Uni systems to do that?

Find out what the course recommends. At my work all devs are now on macbooks and this seems to be common in the industry. The mac will have the advantage that they'll be able to more easily run LLMs natively (make sure you get enough memory - probably 32gb min)

Daughter bought a gaming laptop for when she needed to do animation at Uni o campus. I7 and a GTX card.. At home she has a gaming machine and it get's hammered when doing the rendering for her degree - not so much the games. At home it's a RTX 4070 TI and 32GB of ram linked to a Cintiq for the artwork.

Depends what he needs - animation is massive resource hog.  General calculations could easily be handled by an i5 or i7.  Plenty of decent ex. office laptops with i7's and 16gb about for £350.

Real world experience? - I'm two years ahead of you on this joy ride and my daughter has shouted to me three things.

1) She loves the two LG dual up monitors combined with a minsforum pc box - the vertical configuration really helps with coding. $$$

2) Laptop  - less important - She uses a Dell XPS one on offer to students - do use their frequent discounts. $$

3) A tablet is very useful in lectures - something like a Galaxy tab series. $

4) Have all your fingers and toes crossed that they actually get a job - this is apparently only a thing I worry about and therefore not on daughters list. 😉 

I did CS at Uni - but as we used a mainframe and punch-cards in first year my advice might be slightly out of date 🙂

If money no expense and nothing too exciting graphics-wise for development then a MacBook Air will do the job if it has at least 16GB of RAM. 

Lots of used ThinkPads on eBay for £300, with the 7th Gen X1 Carbon averaging around £350. Not tried AI stuff but it seems insanely robust compared to the MacBook which seems to scratch if you look at them funny. Obviously graphical prowess is mediocre compared to even the MacBook M1. 

A while since I was at uni but if your own laptop couldn't cut it you went into one of the labs and used their desktop machines. 

As above, Macbooks are very common in the industry but depends what languages you're using.. NET devs are generally on Windows. I wouldn't say programming is typically that intensive but if I were to buy another Macbook air I'd opt for additional ram. I have an Air for personal use and pro for work. They're very different beasts. The Air is still fine for everyday stuff though, it tends to be the browser using all the RAM. It's 20 years since I was at uni so definitely worth seeing what they recommend. 

Posted by: Pealy

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Need to get a laptop for the lad to take to Uni but it's hard to predict whether he'll be taking it to all his lectures or only lugging it around occasionally. I feel like a slim, portable 14" thing would be right but a bigger laptop would obvs be better for dev work.
Anyone got any real-world experience??

I didn't do a CS degree, but I do work in an IT dept for a uni and spend a bit of time supporting the CS dept.  I think a slim portable laptop with 16gb of RAM would be more than plenty.  The students don't do much (any?) coding in lectures, so you just need something to take notes on.  Generally most things that students do don't require any level of grunt, you just need enough power to run maybe a single VM at most.  Or compile a fairly simple program. 

Lots of people in unis use Macs cause of the student discount.  But there's no massive need to use Macs.

Also most departments have a load of systems for student to use if they need to do something powerful, eg my dept has:

• K8s cluster
• VM servers (kvm), DB servers
• Student webservers (you can upload your own websites on them)
• labs with 100s of desktops
• Increasingly many of these desktops will have powerful GPUs in them for LLM work
• Access to university Supercomputer if they want it

However they'll almost certainly not advertise all that stuff.  Indeed my experience has been that plenty of lecturers don't know half the services that are provided for them exist.

Also worth asking the department if they have a minimum spec that they recommend.

Posted by: Ewan

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Find out what the course recommends. At my work all devs are now on macbooks and this seems to be common in the industry. The mac will have the advantage that they'll be able to more easily run LLMs natively (make sure you get enough memory - probably 32gb min)

I reckon what's best to use for working as a software engineer and what's best for writing code aren't necessarily the same thing. I've fairly recently succumbed, and switched to a macbook for work - but linux is a better tool for the kind of software development I tend to do (both for myself, and professionally).

Reasons for macs, that don't apply if it's not a work device:
* They're a known quantity - you know what you're getting with a macbook, for anything else you're stuck with whatever random hp/dell/lenovo device (with often questionable ergonomics and specs) that happens to be the corporate policy of the day
* If you need a unix-like environment, they're often the only choice. A lot of places don't look favourably on linux for end-user devices (despite all their servers running on linux!).
* They're often a little bit less locked down than the windows equivalents
* Higher resale value (many companies will let you buy out your device after a given period)

All that's not to say "don't get a mac" - it's just that there are reasons that they're so prevalent for work that don't apply in a non-professional setting. Certainly if they like/want a mac, they will definitely have company - I can almost guarantee there will be other people on the course who have them.

What my daughter has found really useful at Uni is having a second screen. I gave her a 14" USB C one that I had bought a couple of years ago and never used that much and it was really useful to her. Unfortunately it broke after about a year so we got an iPad which can connect to her Macbook Air as a second screen and also be used by itself.
Regarding the original question I would avoid anything too big and bulky as your lad may need to carry it about a fair bit. The halls my daughter lived in were too noisy to study in so she spent a lot of time in the library and having a light laptop made that easy.

One of our children graduated from robotic engineering last year. Heavy OOP and other programming components. 

they had an i7 MacBook Pro which they used booted with windows for course work. 
course work included remote access to various hosted VMs for some assignments/projects/etc. 

they also had their own desktop game behemoth for gaming (obvs) and some course and personal programming work. 

Like @cougar says, most modern, decent, machines will be fine. Take advantage of student/academic discounts. Consider a used machine. And be aware that some course pieces may be done on hosted VMs rather than a local machine. It may be that having a personal machine could support more playing/exploring/practice but I’d expect someone doing software engineering is already geeked out on that anyway. 

and, despite us using Macs for home, from our child’s experience of ‘needing’ a windows machine I’d not recommend an Apple silicon Mac if it is to be used for the coursework. 

edit. I’d support that second screen recommendation. Trying to develop code and write documentation is very hard on a laptop screen. Having at least one external monitor At least 24”, preferably 27”, of high quality makes work so much easier! 

edit edit. Good comment on the typically excellent facilities. Our child spent significant amounts of time in the lab using uni machines. 

Posted by: Ewan

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The mac will have the advantage that they'll be

... twice the price of an equivalent PC and may hit compatibility issues with bespoke software.

Posted by: inky_squid

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The students don't do much (any?) coding in lectures, so you just need something to take notes on.

Is what you need there then not "a pen"?

Posted by: Aidy

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* If you need a unix-like environment, they're often the only choice. A lot of places don't look favourably on linux for end-user devices (despite all their servers running on linux!).

WSL2 then?

My eldest lad did film, so not heavy duty for kit, but key thing was portability and battery life for time getting to, being, from campus. USB/HDMI screen and keyboard at his digs for extended work/research. I7 and big RAM for resource intensive software. Reliable (O365) cloud for stuff for when he pours beer into the thing.

He had a Dell inspiring something. One of those 2in1 things that works as a tablet/pad too.

Usually lots of offers and worth looking direct.

Is what you need there then not "a pen"?

I think it's called a stylus these days cougar..... Straight into onenote..... My youngest has been doing that since covid....

Lots of great stuff to think about there, really appreciate the replies everyone. The external monitor is definitely a must, will add that to the shopping list, and that defo opens up the choices for size a bit. Having googled a bit it does look like there are plenty of options for going 14 inch without sacrificing power as long as the the graphics card isn't needed and there's a free RAM slot.
Really Interesting reading the opinions about Macbooks too, I work in IT and I've noticed a fair few contractors moving towards these recently but we're Windows all the way in this house!
Contacting the Uni seems entirely sensible too, I hadn't really thought about whether they'd be working on VMs or just locally so that's definitely worth exploring.

@donald - made me chuckle, I never used punched cards but we did have to submit our code and keystrokes on squared paper when I did CS A Level - I constantly tell him how lucky he is to be debugging in visual studio rather than picking up a printout full of errors in the morning.

Also - everyone assumes that a computer science degree is software development, system design, and tech support. It's not, and you can pass a CS degree with no more programming skills than writing 10 PRINT "HELLO WORLD". 

Obviously times have changed but by far the more irritating thing in lectures for me was the odd person hammering away on a keyboard taking notes. OneNote and a stylus is better, but obviously is going to limit options. Surface Pro? 

Posted by: Fursty Ferret

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everyone assumes that a computer science degree is software development, system design, and tech support. It's not, and you can pass a CS degree with no more programming skills than writing 10 PRINT "HELLO WORLD".

Not my assumption. Certainly, CS is not the same as software or robotic engineering. I suppose the different names give it away 🤣 . The CS grads and postgrads (including informaticians) I've employed and worked with and for all had some coding capability. I see the Manchester BSc syllabus still includes core programming components. 

Posted by: Fursty Ferret

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Obviously times have changed but by far the more irritating thing in lectures for me was the odd person hammering away on a keyboard taking notes. OneNote and a stylus is better, but obviously is going to limit options. Surface Pro?

Hard agree on the keyboard clacking. Very annoying as student and lecturer. if I remember correctly research has also shown better retention and understanding with written notes over typed ones. Plus these days the lectures are also online with typically generous lecture notes and references. 

I like @cougar 's 'pen' idea.

Despite the cost, and the Microsoft angle, the Surface Pro is a pretty good call if the OP is after a high class machine for their offspring. 

Posted by: Cougar

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... twice the price of an equivalent PC and may hit compatibility issues with bespoke software.

On price, not so much if the OP is after a high end laptop or Surface.  I was taken aback when our child suggested a new Windows PC and I looked at Surface Pros on the recommendation of an academic friend. 

Agree on the 'bespoke' software angle. Despite the remote VMs and so forth I understand that having a handy Windows machine made using C# and C++ easier as there were some VS C++ differences in the Mac IDE from the 'reference' Windows IDE.

Never had a Mac before but just got one of the new Macbook Air M4s - MacBook Air 13-inch and MacBook Air 15-inch - Apple (UK) - it's bloody lovely.

You seem hung up on size.   How portable does it actually have to be?  He's presumably walking 100yds across campus, not climbing the North face of the Eiger.  I've had laptops that were bricks, you don't notice it when it's in a rucksack.  Unless he's got a physical disability which means he can't carry much I'd be prioritising something with a bit of performance over something you could shave with.

Have you asked the lad what he thinks?

Posted by: prettygreenparrot

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On price, not so much if the OP is after a high end laptop or Surface.  I was taken aback when our child suggested a new Windows PC and I looked at Surface Pros on the recommendation of an academic friend. 

 

Oh sure, you can pay Mac money for a PC.  Whether I'd be inclined to do so would depend on whether the lad was the sort to look after possessions or whether it was likely to be dropped / stolen / left on a train / have a pint of Old Phlegm Lovely knocked over it.

Size is super important for to me.. For example my 13.9/14 inch expert book is a joy to use.. But the screen is just too small to do any kind of data work other than viewing or doing very light work...

But it's hard to understate just how portable it is compared to say a laptop with a 16" screen.

If you really need a laptop to be mobile then 14" screen is where it's at *

*if you have the option of docking it or hooking it up to a bigger screen when needed.

Especially if he'll be connected to the university systems via VPN etc. For heavy compute tasks, the laptop then just becomes a 'thin client' for all intents and purposes.

So it really depends on the usage case.

Theres no way on earth I'd consider buying a laptop with a larger screen as my laptop is literally just used when I'm travelling/out and about.

If he needs to run heavy loads on the machine, and has no option of hooking it up to an external much larger monitor as and when needed .. That's a very different usage case.

Yeah.  There is - excuse me - no "one size fits all" solution here.  

My old laptop bag I used to lug to and from work everyday, three quarters of it was tools.  It was fine but I don't think I'd want to carry it particularly long distances. 

... which is a point in itself, what else is he carrying?  When I was at Uni most of my loadout was thick heavy textbooks, do Universities still use "books" even?

Posted by: Cougar

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You seem hung up on size.   How portable does it actually have to be? 

I have work provided 14" and 16" mbps. I find the 16" one notably more annoying just moving it around my office. I hate having to travel with it (although having to travel with multiple laptops is the bigger burden).

Why do you need to carry multiple laptops, out of interest?

I have few for different purposes, but that's more by accident than design.