[Closed] KwikFit - Wont fit 2 winter tyres?

"KwikFit" wouldn't be fitting a sticker on my bumper fwiw!

They wanna sell you 4.

Go to blackcircles.com, choose the tyres you want (at a massively reduced price over kwikfit), then select a garage that's local/convenient to you for them fitted. Job done without hassle.

what Mildred said. Get yourself to a local independant garage.

Where are you?

Cheers folks.

I was just phoning around for prices to do the old 'the other guys do it cheaper' thing.

No-one else had an issue but the Kwikfit guy would only quote for 4.

Our local Budget has a pretty good deal on some Continental ones - cheaper than buying online and getting someone else to fit. So I'll probably go for that.

Winter tyres for THIS winter?

I'm just pissed off because I've spent the equivalent of Scotland's national debt on new sledges, insulated boots and those stupid wire gripper things for the bottom of your shoes / boots,

A balmy 8 degrees in perth at the moment

They wanna sell you 4.

No-one else had an issue but the Kwikfit guy would only quote for 4

Its good advice, two winter tyres [i]is[/i] a bad idea, but they're giving you that advice for commercial reasons which is they want to sell you 4 tyres instead of 2. The other garages are happy to not give you that advice because they would rather sell you 2 tyres instead of non.

Neither are acting in your better interest though

Spin - Member

Winter tyres for THIS winter?

The ones on it are gubbed and I'm off to the Alps in the not too distant.

Hopefully not to prophetic a login for someone cornering with mis-matched tyres

Tee hee

I wouldn't fit 2 winter tyres to your car either!

molgrips - Member
I wouldn't fit 2 winter tyres to your car either!
POSTED 5 MINUTES AGO # REPORT-POST

If you came within 100 yards of one of my vehicles I'd set the dogs on you - or at least push past you to whip the ecus off for safe keeping.

I'd fit it to your car but not mine!

If you came within 100 yards of one of my vehicles I'd set the dogs on you

How would you know?

Had this argument with a number of tyre goon stores myself.

So I can't buy 2?
"no"
Even though it's FWD?
"no"
Even though it's front engined?
"no"
Even though it already understeers like a pig and would be far safer with more front grip?
"no"
This is a scam isn't it?
"yes".

No-one else had an issue but the Kwikfit guy would only quote for 4

Just think of it as a lucky escape, once they'd got your wheels off they would have discovered your suspension was leaking, wheel bearings gone, and you needed new discs and pads.

Oh and the tracking would definitely have been out too 😆

Even though it already understeers like a pig and would be far safer with more front grip?

Understeering on a FWD car fine though they understeer nice and predictable, not so good with oversteer though. If you put more grip on the front without matching that at the rear the fronts grip and the rears let go instead and you swap a predictable understeer for parking yourself backwards in the path of oncoming traffic. If anything FWD cars should have more grip/tread on the rears than the front

My local indie (Event tyres Manchester) was closed on Sunday. I had a puncture on one of my TWO Conti winter contacts so I went to kwikfit.

Do you do puncture repair?

Yes

How much?

£25.

Guess what they would say next? If you need to ask you honestly dont know Kwikfit.

Just had a look on black circles, looks like its £5 cheaper on a tyre costing £155. Not sure that's a great deal?

Fwiw, the bridgewater kwick fit seem very good. Fast, reasonably priced and consistent. Only had tyres there mind, and only a full set or a change, not a pair.

Bathwick tyres are as cheap as I've found in the Bath / Bristol area, but fitting is sometimes a bit iffy (balancing out) They'll sell 2 winters. I'll be going to my local one in the morning for some new ones for the family car, but I'll be sure to take the dual carriage way home just I case there's a bit of vibration!

Guess what they would say next? If you need to ask you honestly dont know Kwikfit.

This winter I bought steel wheels and given that no-one around here will fit tyres that they haven't supplied (and is not a cowboy) I thought I'd fit them myself. I couldn't find valves for sale anywhere, so I stopped by Kwik Fit of Newport Road, Cardiff and asked them. The guy gave me 4 for free, didn't even have to get out of my car.

Then I needed the wheels balanced of course after I'd fitted the tyres. Went around late one Saturday, waited about an hour for the balancing - no charge.

They aren't all bad 🙂

I have a lot of time for the guys at Event tyres (opposite the old GMP HQ). never beaten on price and great service. 15 quid for a puncture, sometime a tenner if you are nice to them.

Understeering on a FWD car fine though. If you put more grip on the front without matching that at the rear the fronts grip and the rears let go instead and you swap a predictable understeer for parking yourself backwards in the path of oncoming traffic. If anything FWD cars should have more grip/tread on the rears than the front

Rather than ploughing front first into oncoming traffic with understeer?

I can deal with oversteer and at least have an effect on what the car is doing but with understeer I'm a passenger.

A 90's French FWD hatch with lift off oversteer is a far safer place for me than modern garbage.

I can deal with oversteer

Only up to a point!

It's just not worth it. Get 4.

Rather than ploughing front first into oncoming traffic with understeer?

I can deal with oversteer and at least have an effect on what the car is doing but with understeer I'm a passenger.

A 90's French FWD hatch with lift off oversteer is a far safer place for me than modern garbage.

Try and stay in control instead, in any kind of car- the preference for everyone is that you're neither understeering or oversteering - just steering. Monkeying about with the tyres to swap you preference of accident is not really what the rest of the people on the road are asking from you.

Mrchrispy always a tenner but its their approach/care too. 😀

For all the oh no only front winter types'.

Do you run matching tyres alround then at exactly the right psi and wear rate? I.e if the inside front is worn do you change the offside front too?

Unless you corner at crazy speeds. Really?

Also winter tyres arent velcro on snow/ice. So you wont grip and auto-slide therear unless you continue to drive like its a hot summers day.

Point? Adapt to the conditions is king and if it is ice/black ice pray

Do you run matching tyres alround then at exactly the right psi and wear rate? I.e if the inside front is worn do you change the offside front too?

The difference between a part worn and a new tyre in the dry is NOTHING compared to the difference between a winter and a summer on snow!

Adapt to the conditions

Well that goes without saying, but by giving yourself much MORE grip in the wrong place, you'll be worse off than if you had just left it alone.

On your bike, would you fit a mud tyre to the rear and a semi slick to the front, in winter conditions? Do you think that would be better than two semi slicks?

Also winter tyres arent velcro on snow/ice. So you wont grip and auto-slide therear unless you continue to drive like its a hot summers day.

this issue isn't snow and ice though - people fit winter tyres for the winter, not for the moment the snow falls - mis-matched grip, especially more grip at the front is an issue all year round, but particularly plain old british wet roads. So Mr Spin is thinking about the Alps and his two winter tyres will be fine there - driving on snow at the same speed and with the same care as everyone else drives on snow. Between now and then is the issue though - ordinary driving on ordinary roads in ordinary conditions.

Eh? How are normal conti car tyres like slicks and winter conti car tyres like mud tyres? Surely you mean a offroad 4x4 tyre and a road tyre to be relevant to your analogy?

Er no I was giving an example of how more grip at the wrong end can be worse than matched ends.

I have a spare set of four BMW 16" alloys if any one wants to buy them for fitting winter tyres. Saves swapping over each spring an autumn.

Also available as two sets of two wheels but dare you risk only having two winter tyres fitted?

Other than on ice and snow it's been many many years since I went near the limit of grip on either end of any vehicle with any combination of tyres.

I assume that's why I've had zero issues running 2 winter tyres all this time.

Is this flawed thinking?

Is this flawed thinking?

the surprise, if you get one, will be a bigger surprise 🙂

I think it's more to do with what happens if you have to swerve to avoid a collision as opposed to driving round, tyres scrabbling for grip screaming "POWER" in you best Clarkson style.

Try and stay in control instead, in any kind of car- the preference for everyone is that you're neither understeering or oversteering - just steering. Monkeying about with the tyres to swap you preference of accident is not really what the rest of the people on the road are asking from you.

Yeah those idiots at Lotus and Porsche really should stop running different front /rear tyre widths and naturally oversteering cars. BMW have also had to wrong all along going for 50/50 distribution. 70/30 is far safer isn't it?

Beware of some indies who get trade through Blackcircles (and other online dealers).

The one I visited was utterly incompetent - wrong tyre pressures ("40psi all round should be fine - its what we always do, summer or winter"), fitted three of the tyres on backwards (they even have big directional arrows!), and they wanted me to drive off with 3 winter/1 summer, as they had "difficulty" (at exactly 5:30pm) with the last tyre.

I swore never to use another garage, other than my "usual" indie.

Ran my Golf with two winter tyres on the front, handled fine on and off snow.

Guess what they would say next?

Looks like nobody is guessing.

Are you going to tell us anyway ?

maccruiskeen - Member

Understeering on a FWD car fine though they understeer nice and predictable, not so good with oversteer though. If you put more grip on the front without matching that at the rear the fronts grip and the rears let go instead

Understeering nice and predictably into a ditch or oncoming traffic isn't really better than oversteering tbh. It's just a basic fallacy, seems sensible enough but keeping grip on the front doesn't instantly cause the rear to break loose! The reality is, with many cars there's a big margin between the point at which the front would have lost traction, and the point at which the back would. And this is the area you exploit with front winters and back "normals"

Or to put it another way- the rears break loose at the same point, regardless of what tyres you put on the front. So at the point where the front would slide and the rears wouldn't, you now don't slide at all. And that extends right up to the point at which you'd have lost the rear anyway. Worst case scenario is that it gives you the capability to drive recklessly and crash, so, don't.

Speaking from experience of just 2 cars, so I wouldn't presume to speak for all cars, but for mine it's been effective. Got 4 on this year (and obviously it will not snow) but if I had 2, I'd fit 2. My own experience is that 2 winters is much safer than none, and delivers a large part of the benefit of 4, absolutely no question whatsoever.

Understeering on a FWD car fine though they understeer nice and predictable, not so good with oversteer though. If you put more grip on the front without matching that at the rear the fronts grip and the rears let go instead and you swap a predictable understeer for parking yourself backwards in the path of oncoming traffic. If anything FWD cars should have more grip/tread on the rears than the front

I have winters on the front and whilst the grip on them is impressive, it still under-steers. Just the way the car is.

If you put more grip on the front without matching that at the rear the fronts grip and the rears let go instead

You do know that every time you brake the grip on the front is >> the grip on the rear due to weight transfer, amazing we don't have everyone spinning all over the place every day.......

A puncture repair is 25. Then look sir its quite worn we have brand new tyres starting at 45 fitted. Its only 20 more and its new.

Im guessing but when I had mine repaired for a fiver instead and my usual place is ten- why is theirs soo much? Great upsell opportunity..

I had two mots in a row with kwikfit. Both years a rear light failed. Before EVERY mot I check all lights work. Funny how the bulb was £15. Small scam but over the course of a week?

The upshot is If a kwikfit said X I'd taken a second opinion.

Personally I wouldn't fit winters to the front only on a car where I don't know the driver knows what they're doing. They need to know that the rears are now MORE LIKELY to break loose than they were before, and what to do to control that. IF I don't know them well enough to know that, they might not have a clue about the risks, then it's a potential liability suit - just not worth it.

On a personal car level, I just try to remain within the cars limits. IF you're in a position where you're panicking about understeer and wanting to control it you're probably driving too fast for a public road in those conditions anyway.

Yeah those idiots at Lotus and Porsche really should stop running different front /rear tyre widths and naturally oversteering cars. BMW have also had to wrong all along going for 50/50 distribution. 70/30 is far safer isn't it?

Not quite the same thing, though I can see how it could get confusing.
And yes, 70:30 is safer, have you ever seen anyone trying to drive a BMW in the snow? Lost count of the the number I see spinning each year when most FWD econoboxes plod by happily at the same speed.

You do know that every time you brake the grip on the front is >> the grip on the rear due to weight transfer, amazing we don't have everyone spinning all over the place every day.......

Yep, and if you fit supergrippy tyres to the front *increasing* forward weight transfer and forward traction while maintaining the same braking torque at the rear contact patch but unloading the rear reducing traction, you increase the likelihood that the rear will break free and swap ends. Same effect as when your rear brake bias valve is stuck in the "laden" position, the increase in brake bias to the rear is minimal but enough to give wet pants if taken by surprise (thanks Renault for a dodgy valve!)

if you have more grip at front in fwd you can gain speed nice and easy in a straight line and as you are just pulling the rears along in a straight line you get no feedback that you have already exceeded the capability of yiur rear low grip summer tyre.
until you try to turn and find the back of the car comes around on, you are now a passenger in an uncontrollable car.
that is why you want more grip at the back as it defaults your car to a safe limited speed and does not rely on the belief you are a finnish rally driver on a rally stage.

nwilko - Member

if you have more grip at front in fwd you can gain speed nice and easy in a straight line and as you are just pulling the rears along in a straight line you get no feedback that you have already exceeded the capability of yiur rear low grip summer tyre.
until you try to turn and find the back of the car comes around on, you are now a passenger in an uncontrollable car.
that is why you want more grip at the back as it defaults your car to a safe limited speed and does not rely on the belief you are a finnish rally driver on a rally stage.

Yes, that's all really valid if you only ever drive the car as fast as you can down one straight and then round one corner. But in reality, it's nonsense, you build up experience and understanding of a car over time. If you drive in the manner you describe, you're a danger regardless of what's on the corners.

Not to mention of course that you can do exactly the same thing with 4 summer tyres- and many people do.

you get no feedback

Winter tyres aren't super-grippy either. They CAN give a driver false confidence, just like anyone who drives a 4WD Audi thinking he's a great driver.

They are just abit better IMO. They come into their own if you are on something low speed and need 'just' that bit extra traction to claw along slower/stop you getting stuck. They aren't for leaning into a bend at 60mph on a NSL- but you wouldn't do that anyway in sub-zero temps would you. Again unless you devolve your responsibility to technology.

All IMO and if I could afford I'd run 4 skinnier winters on different wheels but for clawing through that moment when you might just spin/stuck somewhere- thats when I'll take just the drive wheels.

In winter we all drive much slower anyway so someone drifting shouldn't happen unless its low speed thick snow.

Though I might be right or wrong on the subject one thing that does scare me is the speed that people still drive at in general in sleet or blizzard conditions around Manchester. Even in thick snow when I decided to cycle into work people were driving past me almost sideways close to me wheels spinning away as fast as they could. A fear of having to be stuck and walk? Over the M60 is crashtastic.

[i]Its good advice, two winter tyres is a bad idea, but they're giving you that advice for commercial reasons which is they want to sell you 4 tyres instead of 2. The other garages are happy to not give you that advice because they would rather sell you 2 tyres instead of non.[/i]

+1

While I'd happily run around with mis-matched tyres, and drive accordingly I wouldn't recommend it for someone unaware of the risks.

I'm glad that I have my completely unnecessary 4x4 with decent tyres as well as being able to drive properly ( not assumed ability but the result of many hours of training and practice ) - it doesn't mean im an an expert or that I'm never going to get stuck but reduces the chances of that happening.
Winter tyres on the front - no problem, you're not going to instantly die - just learn how the car behaves
Winter

While I'd happily run around with mis-matched tyres, and drive accordingly I wouldn't recommend it for someone unaware of the risks.

I think that's the nub of it. People on here are highly intelligent and have driving skills way above the norm, so while you or I will be able to cope with the odd unexpected drift or spin, Mr or Mrs Average Driver will be completely unaware of the risks. I reckon if the guys at Kwikfit had realised the OP was a STWer, their attitude might have been quite different.

It's not just snow/ice that winter tyres are for - ours offer superb grip even in the wet (below approx. 7'C or lower).

The "grip limit" of the car is far higher.

The grip on non-winter tyres isn't that bad! I'd factor in peoples driving habits/too close etc etc before I'd get to tyres!!

I think that's the nub of it. People on here are highly intelligent and have driving skills way above the norm, so while you or I will be able to cope with the odd unexpected drift or spin, Mr or Mrs Average Driver will be completely unaware of the risks. I reckon if the guys at Kwikfit had realised the OP was a STWer, their attitude might have been quite different.

🙂 We should get a badge or certificate or something

We should get a badge or certificate or something

That would be classy. We might even be able to arrange an insurance loading to reflect our elevated driving abilities... I'm all for a STW race series - chipped turbo diesel estates with fully-loaded bike racks on the roof and diagonally split winter/summer tyre set-ups giving it some around the Mountain on the Isle of Man or the Nurburgthing. Only then would the full majesty of our driving talents be properly apparent. 🙂

Got my winter tyres from Funky Tyres - loads cheaper than any of the big online sellers and they were delivered direct from Nokian in 3 days. If you message them or post on their Facebook page what you want they will quote various options.

Then got them fitted by a local tyre place for £30 for 4.

Northwind - Member
Understeering nice and predictably into a ditch or oncoming traffic isn't really better than oversteering tbh. It's just a basic fallacy, seems sensible enough but keeping grip on the front doesn't instantly cause the rear to break loose! The reality is, with many cars there's a big margin between the point at which the front would have lost traction, and the point at which the back would. And this is the area you exploit with front winters and back "normals"

Or to put it another way- the rears break loose at the same point, regardless of what tyres you put on the front. So at the point where the front would slide and the rears wouldn't, you now don't slide at all. And that extends right up to the point at which you'd have lost the rear anyway. Worst case scenario is that it gives you the capability to drive recklessly and crash, so, don't.

Speaking from experience of just 2 cars, so I wouldn't presume to speak for all cars, but for mine it's been effective. Got 4 on this year (and obviously it will not snow) but if I had 2, I'd fit 2. My own experience is that 2 winters is much safer than none, and delivers a large part of the benefit of 4, absolutely no question whatsoever.

Disagree with all of that. You're going against the advice of every tyre company, the AA, the RAC etc.

Watch this, it's filmed on ice but the same would apply to wet roads:

retro83- those videos show what happens if you try and drive with 2 winter tyres as though you had 4, which of course is a bad idea. They don't show you the gap between 2 winter tyres and none. What happens in the real world is you drive to the capability of the vehicle and your ability, you don't drive to the capability of one set of tyres and ignore everything else.

The advice I'm seeing now from tyre companies is "If you've only got one set of tyres, and you can benefit from winter tyres, then you should fit them all year round" which most people seem to ignore. But regarding mixing, as ever, corporate advice has to be for everyone, ie the lowest common denominator. Before that inspires some sneery "driving gods" comment, the advice isn't designed even for the average driver, or the below average driver, it's designed for the worst driver.

I'm a perfectly normal driver, no elite skillz are required to feel the benefit of 2 winter tyres over none on a fwd car. My experience as a normal driver is that 4 are better than 2, 2 are better than none, unless you are a dangerous driver in which case, you are probably dangerous regardless.

I wonder how many people who disagree have actually tried it?

If only there were someone who could give us advice on how to drive awesomely.

Pff, He would never deign to drive a fwd car.

Is Glupton currently banned? It's not a proper driving thread without Glupton.

On those clips. If I could afford 4 I'd buy 4.

I would never drive at those speeds in those conditions in any tyres so the adhesion would be better...thus less dramatic if they drove normally.

I've driven on snow in normal tyres. My rear end didn't break away because I drove SLOWLY. Especially if ice is around.

If there really IS proper ice unless you have spiked tyres - its in the lap of the Gods.

Watch this, it's filmed on ice but the same would apply to wet roads:

No it wouldn't. A wet road can be slippery but if you are lifting off/applying brakes/steering input with a blip of the throttle you will get the rear or front to step out.

Driver skill first. Then tyres.

Driver skill first. Then tyres.

Hahaha.. so let's just get everyone to go down to Kwik Fit, they can spend £300 and be made into great drivers.

When did I say tyres buys skills/carcraft?

i give in,
the laws of physics and designing vehicles to be inherently safe in the real world is obviously worth nothing on STW.

You are all far better drivers then the industry designs vehicles for.

I presume you are also persecuted by laws on speeding / parking etc..

When did I say tyres buys skills/carcraft?

You didn't, I was being sarcastic. Of course driver skills are vital but they cannot be easily bought. Tyres can though.

On Sat morning there was a snap snowblizzard on one half of Snake Pass. I was talking to a driver of a 4WD newish V70 about our chances of getting through safely (nil) so we turned round. I remember saying 'its not the snow I fear its other drivers'. He agreed. Same with the M60 near Barton Bridge- drivers cant regulate their speed. Its almost fatalistic. Everytime theres even a slight bit of rain theres gridlock due to rear-ends in the evening rush hour. People speed too much, yes there are better stopping distances with better tyres but people will just stamp on the brake. They wont even think before a developing hazzard or warning signs.

Give up- UK roads are scary. Then the fog and snow comes.

The ones on it are gubbed and I'm off to the Alps in the not too distant.

Then why are you even thinking about fitting just 2?

I can see why people would think it's a good idea in the UK but madness in the Alps, if it's even legal. you may well find yourself in a spot of bother with the French Police if you have a crash with only 2 winter tyres fitted. I don't think they are legal requirement but advisable but mixing types is definitely not advisable and might see you in trouble.

If you end up over the swiss border you may also end up in trouble if your car is not suitably equipped for the conditions.

Northwind - Member

retro83- those videos show what happens if you try and drive with 2 winter tyres as though you had 4, which of course is a bad idea. They don't show you the gap between 2 winter tyres and none. What happens in the real world is you drive to the capability of the vehicle and your ability, you don't drive to the capability of one set of tyres and ignore everything else.

The advice I'm seeing now from tyre companies is "If you've only got one set of tyres, and you can benefit from winter tyres, then you should fit them all year round" which most people seem to ignore. But regarding mixing, as ever, corporate advice has to be for everyone, ie the lowest common denominator. Before that inspires some sneery "driving gods" comment, the advice isn't designed even for the average driver, or the below average driver, it's designed for the worst driver.

I'm a perfectly normal driver, no elite skillz are required to feel the benefit of 2 winter tyres over none on a fwd car. My experience as a normal driver is that 4 are better than 2, 2 are better than none, unless you are a dangerous driver in which case, you are probably dangerous regardless.

I wonder how many people who disagree have actually tried it?

I know what you're saying and agree to a point regarding driving to the conditions, but I still think it's dangerous should something unexpected happen and you needing to swerve or brake heavily.

I had new tyres put on the front of my car last time and the part worns moved to the back, a while later I had to brake hard on a roundabout when some phallus piled out in front of me at about 30mph and the back end swung out to quite an alarming angle. It was only wet/oily not snowy and the ESP caught it before I could even get any lock on, but it certainly opened my eyes to how much the dynamics of the car had changed at its limits.

Have run 2 winters on front of the T4 for last couple of years with no issues, tested how hard I had to push it to get the back to break free on snow ( heavily treated van tyres anyway) and found you'd have to be driving like a tool to make it do it. ( on a private deserted road I might add 😉 )
I wouldn't fit 2 on the passat though as the standard tread on the rears is a lot lower profile and would make it a lot more 'backendy' than it does with the van, that a twice as much horsepower. ( dispite my driving awesomzness )

Fitted 2 winter tyres on the front of my A-class previously due to how crap the previous tyres were with snow.

Compared to the normal tyres I could get up the hill to my house when it had snowed whereas previously I had no chance, the only other cars getting up there were 4x4's and an Peugeot 106 with super skinny tyres on.

I drove it with those same tyres on for best part of a year prior to selling it and surprisingly I didn't die.

As usual on here a lot of assumptions are being made, I fitted them purely for the extra traction in snow at slow speeds not for driving Colin McCrae style everywhere.

As Hora said if I could afford 4 then yes I would probably have got them fitted all round but 2 are better than none for the reasons I mentioned above.

No point fitting them on the rear wheels when I want extra traction to climb the hilly roads where I live when its snowing with it being a FWD car, maybe the OP has the same reasoning.

No tyre in the world is going to save you if you drive like a bell end or not adapt for the conditions.

Winter tyres are a aid to staying in control when the weather changes, so 2 Winter tyres would potentially give you a 50% better chance of maintaining control/grip as opposed to the same car with summer tyres all round.
4 Winter tyres would be better still.
I shall be running 2 winter tyres again on my Kangoo van and hopefully I wont spin out at the end of my drive.

retro83 - Member

I know what you're saying and agree to a point regarding driving to the conditions, but I still think it's dangerous should something unexpected happen and you needing to swerve or brake heavily.

Yeah, see, I agree in some circumstances it certainly could be less safe- especially in those emergency/unplanned situations where you might not have a lot of subtlety or thought going on. But then those circumstances are generally going to be trouble in bad conditions if you have no winter tyres, too. Maybe a different sort of trouble! But that's offset against the safety and usability improvement all the rest of the time, and even in those bad situations it does give you more capability and more options. Just, while some of those options involve stopping or evading better than you could otherwise, other options involve driving backwards into another car 😉

I suppose what I should clarify is, I'm in favour of 4 winter tyres- it's what's on the car now. I'd never choose 2 if 4 was an option. But I'd choose 2 if it's 2 or none. Oh, also maybe I'm biased in that I don't use "summer" tyres or rubbish tyres so whatever is on the back will be at least some use in winter. But these are things that change the equation a bit.

LATERAL GRIP people.. Don't be stupid only fitting 2 up front.

Ps.. Insurance company will not like only 2 winters tyes either.

rickt - Member

Ps.. Insurance company will not like only 2 winters tyes either.

Mine are perfectly happy- they didn't seem to understand why I even asked.

^^ till you make a claim. You may have spoke to someone on day 2 on the job.........

It's illegal in other countries for a reason... Ie the ones where motorists are educated and have experience of the benefits

Your life.. Your call ..

rickt - Member

^^ till you make a claim. You may have spoke to someone on day 2 on the job..

That's why you get things in writing. But since they think it makes me safer they're not too bothered. Thanks for your[s] concern [/s]illinformed scaremongering though

if it's even legal. you may well find yourself in a spot of bother with the French Police

French regs require that you carry chains and that's all.

That's why you get things in writing. But since they think it makes me safer they're not too bothered. Thanks for your concern illinformed scaremongering though

I just can not understand why you would go against multiple sources of advice and run a mixed category tyre set up?

In regards to the insurance, having something in writing does not make it right.

as i said... your call

LATERAL GRIP people.. Don't be stupid only fitting 2 up front.

Can you do something about the vehicle dynamics of my Wife's Honda Jazz that has about 30% less front lateral grip than the rear with the same 4 tyres please?

This is the problem. Modern, affordable cars are mostly a load of crap. They've traded handling for grip by using more advanced tyre technology. That's great until, for whatever reason, you reach the tyre's limit, and then you're stuck in an understeering deathtrap.

Still you've got 18 airbags, 14 electronic driving assists, 11 crumple zones, SIPS, baby ejector seats etc to appease the petrified public.