[Closed] KwikFit - Wont fit 2 winter tyres?

"KwikFit" wouldn't be fitting a sticker on my bumper fwiw!

They wanna sell you 4.

Go to blackcircles.com, choose the tyres you want (at a massively reduced price over kwikfit), then select a garage that's local/convenient to you for them fitted. Job done without hassle.

what Mildred said. Get yourself to a local independant garage.

Where are you?

Cheers folks.

I was just phoning around for prices to do the old 'the other guys do it cheaper' thing.

No-one else had an issue but the Kwikfit guy would only quote for 4.

Our local Budget has a pretty good deal on some Continental ones - cheaper than buying online and getting someone else to fit. So I'll probably go for that.

Winter tyres for THIS winter?

I'm just pissed off because I've spent the equivalent of Scotland's national debt on new sledges, insulated boots and those stupid wire gripper things for the bottom of your shoes / boots,

A balmy 8 degrees in perth at the moment

They wanna sell you 4.

No-one else had an issue but the Kwikfit guy would only quote for 4

Its good advice, two winter tyres [i]is[/i] a bad idea, but they're giving you that advice for commercial reasons which is they want to sell you 4 tyres instead of 2. The other garages are happy to not give you that advice because they would rather sell you 2 tyres instead of non.

Neither are acting in your better interest though

Spin - Member

Winter tyres for THIS winter?

The ones on it are gubbed and I'm off to the Alps in the not too distant.

Hopefully not to prophetic a login for someone cornering with mis-matched tyres

Tee hee

I wouldn't fit 2 winter tyres to your car either!

molgrips - Member
I wouldn't fit 2 winter tyres to your car either!
POSTED 5 MINUTES AGO # REPORT-POST

If you came within 100 yards of one of my vehicles I'd set the dogs on you - or at least push past you to whip the ecus off for safe keeping.

I'd fit it to your car but not mine!

If you came within 100 yards of one of my vehicles I'd set the dogs on you

How would you know?

Had this argument with a number of tyre goon stores myself.

So I can't buy 2?
"no"
Even though it's FWD?
"no"
Even though it's front engined?
"no"
Even though it already understeers like a pig and would be far safer with more front grip?
"no"
This is a scam isn't it?
"yes".

No-one else had an issue but the Kwikfit guy would only quote for 4

Just think of it as a lucky escape, once they'd got your wheels off they would have discovered your suspension was leaking, wheel bearings gone, and you needed new discs and pads.

Oh and the tracking would definitely have been out too 😆

Even though it already understeers like a pig and would be far safer with more front grip?

Understeering on a FWD car fine though they understeer nice and predictable, not so good with oversteer though. If you put more grip on the front without matching that at the rear the fronts grip and the rears let go instead and you swap a predictable understeer for parking yourself backwards in the path of oncoming traffic. If anything FWD cars should have more grip/tread on the rears than the front

My local indie (Event tyres Manchester) was closed on Sunday. I had a puncture on one of my TWO Conti winter contacts so I went to kwikfit.

Do you do puncture repair?

Yes

How much?

£25.

Guess what they would say next? If you need to ask you honestly dont know Kwikfit.

Just had a look on black circles, looks like its £5 cheaper on a tyre costing £155. Not sure that's a great deal?

Fwiw, the bridgewater kwick fit seem very good. Fast, reasonably priced and consistent. Only had tyres there mind, and only a full set or a change, not a pair.

Bathwick tyres are as cheap as I've found in the Bath / Bristol area, but fitting is sometimes a bit iffy (balancing out) They'll sell 2 winters. I'll be going to my local one in the morning for some new ones for the family car, but I'll be sure to take the dual carriage way home just I case there's a bit of vibration!

Guess what they would say next? If you need to ask you honestly dont know Kwikfit.

This winter I bought steel wheels and given that no-one around here will fit tyres that they haven't supplied (and is not a cowboy) I thought I'd fit them myself. I couldn't find valves for sale anywhere, so I stopped by Kwik Fit of Newport Road, Cardiff and asked them. The guy gave me 4 for free, didn't even have to get out of my car.

Then I needed the wheels balanced of course after I'd fitted the tyres. Went around late one Saturday, waited about an hour for the balancing - no charge.

They aren't all bad 🙂

I have a lot of time for the guys at Event tyres (opposite the old GMP HQ). never beaten on price and great service. 15 quid for a puncture, sometime a tenner if you are nice to them.

Understeering on a FWD car fine though. If you put more grip on the front without matching that at the rear the fronts grip and the rears let go instead and you swap a predictable understeer for parking yourself backwards in the path of oncoming traffic. If anything FWD cars should have more grip/tread on the rears than the front

Rather than ploughing front first into oncoming traffic with understeer?

I can deal with oversteer and at least have an effect on what the car is doing but with understeer I'm a passenger.

A 90's French FWD hatch with lift off oversteer is a far safer place for me than modern garbage.

I can deal with oversteer

Only up to a point!

It's just not worth it. Get 4.

Rather than ploughing front first into oncoming traffic with understeer?

I can deal with oversteer and at least have an effect on what the car is doing but with understeer I'm a passenger.

A 90's French FWD hatch with lift off oversteer is a far safer place for me than modern garbage.

Try and stay in control instead, in any kind of car- the preference for everyone is that you're neither understeering or oversteering - just steering. Monkeying about with the tyres to swap you preference of accident is not really what the rest of the people on the road are asking from you.

Mrchrispy always a tenner but its their approach/care too. 😀

For all the oh no only front winter types'.

Do you run matching tyres alround then at exactly the right psi and wear rate? I.e if the inside front is worn do you change the offside front too?

Unless you corner at crazy speeds. Really?

Also winter tyres arent velcro on snow/ice. So you wont grip and auto-slide therear unless you continue to drive like its a hot summers day.

Point? Adapt to the conditions is king and if it is ice/black ice pray

Do you run matching tyres alround then at exactly the right psi and wear rate? I.e if the inside front is worn do you change the offside front too?

The difference between a part worn and a new tyre in the dry is NOTHING compared to the difference between a winter and a summer on snow!

Adapt to the conditions

Well that goes without saying, but by giving yourself much MORE grip in the wrong place, you'll be worse off than if you had just left it alone.

On your bike, would you fit a mud tyre to the rear and a semi slick to the front, in winter conditions? Do you think that would be better than two semi slicks?

Also winter tyres arent velcro on snow/ice. So you wont grip and auto-slide therear unless you continue to drive like its a hot summers day.

this issue isn't snow and ice though - people fit winter tyres for the winter, not for the moment the snow falls - mis-matched grip, especially more grip at the front is an issue all year round, but particularly plain old british wet roads. So Mr Spin is thinking about the Alps and his two winter tyres will be fine there - driving on snow at the same speed and with the same care as everyone else drives on snow. Between now and then is the issue though - ordinary driving on ordinary roads in ordinary conditions.

Eh? How are normal conti car tyres like slicks and winter conti car tyres like mud tyres? Surely you mean a offroad 4x4 tyre and a road tyre to be relevant to your analogy?

Er no I was giving an example of how more grip at the wrong end can be worse than matched ends.

I have a spare set of four BMW 16" alloys if any one wants to buy them for fitting winter tyres. Saves swapping over each spring an autumn.

Also available as two sets of two wheels but dare you risk only having two winter tyres fitted?

Other than on ice and snow it's been many many years since I went near the limit of grip on either end of any vehicle with any combination of tyres.

I assume that's why I've had zero issues running 2 winter tyres all this time.

Is this flawed thinking?

Is this flawed thinking?

the surprise, if you get one, will be a bigger surprise 🙂

I think it's more to do with what happens if you have to swerve to avoid a collision as opposed to driving round, tyres scrabbling for grip screaming "POWER" in you best Clarkson style.

Try and stay in control instead, in any kind of car- the preference for everyone is that you're neither understeering or oversteering - just steering. Monkeying about with the tyres to swap you preference of accident is not really what the rest of the people on the road are asking from you.

Yeah those idiots at Lotus and Porsche really should stop running different front /rear tyre widths and naturally oversteering cars. BMW have also had to wrong all along going for 50/50 distribution. 70/30 is far safer isn't it?

Beware of some indies who get trade through Blackcircles (and other online dealers).

The one I visited was utterly incompetent - wrong tyre pressures ("40psi all round should be fine - its what we always do, summer or winter"), fitted three of the tyres on backwards (they even have big directional arrows!), and they wanted me to drive off with 3 winter/1 summer, as they had "difficulty" (at exactly 5:30pm) with the last tyre.

I swore never to use another garage, other than my "usual" indie.

Ran my Golf with two winter tyres on the front, handled fine on and off snow.

Guess what they would say next?

Looks like nobody is guessing.

Are you going to tell us anyway ?

maccruiskeen - Member

Understeering on a FWD car fine though they understeer nice and predictable, not so good with oversteer though. If you put more grip on the front without matching that at the rear the fronts grip and the rears let go instead

Understeering nice and predictably into a ditch or oncoming traffic isn't really better than oversteering tbh. It's just a basic fallacy, seems sensible enough but keeping grip on the front doesn't instantly cause the rear to break loose! The reality is, with many cars there's a big margin between the point at which the front would have lost traction, and the point at which the back would. And this is the area you exploit with front winters and back "normals"

Or to put it another way- the rears break loose at the same point, regardless of what tyres you put on the front. So at the point where the front would slide and the rears wouldn't, you now don't slide at all. And that extends right up to the point at which you'd have lost the rear anyway. Worst case scenario is that it gives you the capability to drive recklessly and crash, so, don't.

Speaking from experience of just 2 cars, so I wouldn't presume to speak for all cars, but for mine it's been effective. Got 4 on this year (and obviously it will not snow) but if I had 2, I'd fit 2. My own experience is that 2 winters is much safer than none, and delivers a large part of the benefit of 4, absolutely no question whatsoever.

Understeering on a FWD car fine though they understeer nice and predictable, not so good with oversteer though. If you put more grip on the front without matching that at the rear the fronts grip and the rears let go instead and you swap a predictable understeer for parking yourself backwards in the path of oncoming traffic. If anything FWD cars should have more grip/tread on the rears than the front

I have winters on the front and whilst the grip on them is impressive, it still under-steers. Just the way the car is.

If you put more grip on the front without matching that at the rear the fronts grip and the rears let go instead

You do know that every time you brake the grip on the front is >> the grip on the rear due to weight transfer, amazing we don't have everyone spinning all over the place every day.......

A puncture repair is 25. Then look sir its quite worn we have brand new tyres starting at 45 fitted. Its only 20 more and its new.

Im guessing but when I had mine repaired for a fiver instead and my usual place is ten- why is theirs soo much? Great upsell opportunity..

I had two mots in a row with kwikfit. Both years a rear light failed. Before EVERY mot I check all lights work. Funny how the bulb was £15. Small scam but over the course of a week?

The upshot is If a kwikfit said X I'd taken a second opinion.

Personally I wouldn't fit winters to the front only on a car where I don't know the driver knows what they're doing. They need to know that the rears are now MORE LIKELY to break loose than they were before, and what to do to control that. IF I don't know them well enough to know that, they might not have a clue about the risks, then it's a potential liability suit - just not worth it.

On a personal car level, I just try to remain within the cars limits. IF you're in a position where you're panicking about understeer and wanting to control it you're probably driving too fast for a public road in those conditions anyway.

Yeah those idiots at Lotus and Porsche really should stop running different front /rear tyre widths and naturally oversteering cars. BMW have also had to wrong all along going for 50/50 distribution. 70/30 is far safer isn't it?

Not quite the same thing, though I can see how it could get confusing.
And yes, 70:30 is safer, have you ever seen anyone trying to drive a BMW in the snow? Lost count of the the number I see spinning each year when most FWD econoboxes plod by happily at the same speed.

You do know that every time you brake the grip on the front is >> the grip on the rear due to weight transfer, amazing we don't have everyone spinning all over the place every day.......

Yep, and if you fit supergrippy tyres to the front *increasing* forward weight transfer and forward traction while maintaining the same braking torque at the rear contact patch but unloading the rear reducing traction, you increase the likelihood that the rear will break free and swap ends. Same effect as when your rear brake bias valve is stuck in the "laden" position, the increase in brake bias to the rear is minimal but enough to give wet pants if taken by surprise (thanks Renault for a dodgy valve!)

if you have more grip at front in fwd you can gain speed nice and easy in a straight line and as you are just pulling the rears along in a straight line you get no feedback that you have already exceeded the capability of yiur rear low grip summer tyre.
until you try to turn and find the back of the car comes around on, you are now a passenger in an uncontrollable car.
that is why you want more grip at the back as it defaults your car to a safe limited speed and does not rely on the belief you are a finnish rally driver on a rally stage.

nwilko - Member

if you have more grip at front in fwd you can gain speed nice and easy in a straight line and as you are just pulling the rears along in a straight line you get no feedback that you have already exceeded the capability of yiur rear low grip summer tyre.
until you try to turn and find the back of the car comes around on, you are now a passenger in an uncontrollable car.
that is why you want more grip at the back as it defaults your car to a safe limited speed and does not rely on the belief you are a finnish rally driver on a rally stage.

Yes, that's all really valid if you only ever drive the car as fast as you can down one straight and then round one corner. But in reality, it's nonsense, you build up experience and understanding of a car over time. If you drive in the manner you describe, you're a danger regardless of what's on the corners.

Not to mention of course that you can do exactly the same thing with 4 summer tyres- and many people do.

you get no feedback

Winter tyres aren't super-grippy either. They CAN give a driver false confidence, just like anyone who drives a 4WD Audi thinking he's a great driver.

They are just abit better IMO. They come into their own if you are on something low speed and need 'just' that bit extra traction to claw along slower/stop you getting stuck. They aren't for leaning into a bend at 60mph on a NSL- but you wouldn't do that anyway in sub-zero temps would you. Again unless you devolve your responsibility to technology.

All IMO and if I could afford I'd run 4 skinnier winters on different wheels but for clawing through that moment when you might just spin/stuck somewhere- thats when I'll take just the drive wheels.

In winter we all drive much slower anyway so someone drifting shouldn't happen unless its low speed thick snow.

Though I might be right or wrong on the subject one thing that does scare me is the speed that people still drive at in general in sleet or blizzard conditions around Manchester. Even in thick snow when I decided to cycle into work people were driving past me almost sideways close to me wheels spinning away as fast as they could. A fear of having to be stuck and walk? Over the M60 is crashtastic.