[Closed] Kitchen Knives

Why not keep the knives you have and are happy with?

but I've been looking for an excuse to upgrade

FFS!

Any help is appreciated!

You could start by realising what a waste of money it is!

(Please note this post is needlessy inflammatory and should be taken as a part troll)

Use Sabatier and Global here, wife (a chef) prefers Sabatier, myself Global.
I think as with any decent knife it's what feels right in your hand.

I have one Porsche knife which is quite nice, one piece etc, but too heavy I feel.

http://www.zwilling.com/en/knife-series/items/four-star--2628.html?page=3

I've got several of these in differing sizes, some with a concealed tang, some with it exposed (i.e. riveted heads). Just brilliant, though not cheap.

The handles of the sabatiers are starting to show their age, a couple have small cracks in them and they are a limited edition set with brass parts to the handles which I just don't like.
They've served their time and I would probably be looking at replacing them in a year or two anyway so would be asking the same.
And I have a n*10 birthday this year and the wife has decided that she wants to get me some knives.

I've spent a lot of time justifying this to myself so please don't spoil it!

I've used plenty of very expensive knives when i worked in a kitchen and the chefs let me loose with theirs, but at home i've got Sabatiers. I've had them five years or so and see no reason to change.

Sorry, not helping!

I bought a Wusthof cooks knife couple of years ago, best bit of kitchen "kit" I ever bought. Didn't like Global, hated the feel of the handle and it felt a bit light.

[url= http://www.wusthof.com/desktopdefault.aspx/tabid-75/105_read-959/52_view-121/categories-121/categories-210/country=GB/country=GB/wlang-2 ]Wusthof Classic[/url]

Tesco knife deal

Nah, you want The World's Sharpest Knife...

http://www.kwaichi.com/blog/2008/12/01/forever-sharp-knives-yeah-right-and-the-knife-through-a-hammer-trick/

How about 'ceramic' knives:

http://www.kyoceraknives.co.uk/

Never used them, but I like the idea

Hth
Marko

mrjmt - Member

The handles of the sabatiers are starting to show their age, a couple have small cracks in them

I'd call that "patina". I've had 1 8" sabatier that's done me fine, GF recently got me a 4" one but I never use it.

I like the look of the Wusthofs, the handle looks very comfortable. There's a stockist near my work too so I might drop in and have a look.

On a similar note, when you go to a shop to have a look, what do you do? Its not like you can sit there and play stairway to heaven on them is it!
Maybe I should take a carrot with me and give it a quick slice?
Or make stabbing actions into mid air?
Or learn to juggle knives and ask to see the full set?

Hmm, or the other option, I wonder if I could have my existing knives reconditioned?
Maybe have the blades re-ground, and new handles?
Or is that an imaginary service that would probably cost more than the knives are worth?

Mrs North has a couple of Globals, which I use. I find them nice, though I have no real experience of other decent knives.

A proper cookshop ought to let you try them for size.

slight hijack - got some pretty reasonable knives and sharpen them with a proper steel but serial abuse (think putting them in a dishwasher, sneaking them out to the shed for important bike related business, not serial murder) the edges are pretty pitted with dirty great lumps taken out. Are there machines you can buy for normal money or people who grind them back properly locally any more?

I bought most of my knives from JCK that are still cheaper than any you find in the market here even with delivery charges etc.
[url= http://www.japanesechefsknife.com/ ]Japanese Chefs Knife[/url]

The ones you want to go for are:

1. Hattori HD series.
2. Misono Sweden steel or UX10 series
3. Hiromoto Tenmi-Jyuraku Series (Aogami Super)
4. [url= http://www.japanesechefsknife.com/JCKSpecialKnifeSet.html ]Special [/url]
5. Buy some King whetstones or any good Japanese whetstones.
6. If you are a Chinese cleaver user then look for Sugimoto Chinese Cleaver or Suien Chinese Cleaver.

🙂

or people who grind them back

Your butcher?

I've got a remarkably nice electric knife sharpener - as ever, not cheap, but it works perfectly, doesn't grind your knife away in seconds, and means I don't have to spend ages with a steel getting the knives perfect after my daughter has carved rocks (or whatever she does with them) with my favourite knives.

I paid about £100, I believe.

or people who grind them back

Your butcher?

I'll investigate that, we're on good terms with the local butcher so I'll drop in for a chat.
I also saw on a recent thread regarding sharpening that the local butcher is good for showing you good technique, top tip there!

I bought most of my knives from JCK that are still cheaper than any you find in the market here even with delivery charges etc.
Japanese Chefs Knife

The ones you want to go for are:

1. Hattori HD series.
2. Misono Sweden steel or UX10 series
3. Hiromoto Tenmi-Jyuraku Series (Aogami Super)
4. Special
5. Buy some King whetstones or any good Japanese whetstones.
6. If you are a Chinese cleaver user then look for Sugimoto Chinese Cleaver or Suien Chinese Cleaver.

That site looks very promising, I'll have a proper look on there.

I assume that you have at least one of each of the above?

I have one of these which is excellent and my most used knife

http://www.millyskitchenstore.co.uk/FAPorscheType301SantokuKnife178mmP02-Product-18220.html

I also have one of these - iot is a joy to use but veg only

http://knifewear.com/knife-detail.asp?knife=25nakiri130&family=25

I don't have to spend ages with a steel getting the knives perfect

You don't have to do that anyway.. I spend 30s and I can cut onions with ease - good enough for me 🙂

(can't resist heckling here, sorry!)

If you're around Marylebone these guys are worth a visit - http://www.japaneseknifecompany.com/JKCSHOP.aspx

I haven't been to the shop for quite a while but the staff were very helpful. If the shop is quiet ask them to show you how to sharpen a knife correctly (using newspaper!).

(can't resist heckling here, sorry!)

Try harder, eh?

(a) I'm not great with sharpening steels

(b) the women in my household seem to think that the same knife can be used to cut onions, tomatoes, concrete and wire (yes, really) without any ill-effect, and that chopping directly onto a granite surface is just fine.

mrjmt - Member

I bought most of my knives from JCK that are still cheaper than any you find in the market here even with delivery charges etc.
Japanese Chefs Knife

The ones you want to go for are:

1. Hattori HD series.
2. Misono Sweden steel or UX10 series
3. Hiromoto Tenmi-Jyuraku Series (Aogami Super)
4. Special
5. Buy some King whetstones or any good Japanese whetstones.
6. If you are a Chinese cleaver user then look for Sugimoto Chinese Cleaver or Suien Chinese Cleaver.

That site looks very promising, I'll have a proper look on there.

I assume that you have at least one of each of the above?

I bought 3 chinese cleavers (Tojiro F-920, Suien, Sugimoto CM4030 Chinese Cleaver Small & Thin type), 1 Fujiwara FKH Santoku, fish bone tweezer. I was going to buy most of the above but ended with cleavers.

🙂

Go on Nisbits website as you'll pick up a cheap set of classics for about £400, it's a shame you hadn't been looking a month ago as I sold 10 sets of shun at £500 a set, 75% off.

Ive got a Robert Welch knife. Really nice feel and weighting to it. Cracking blade on it too.

Another vote for Wusthof Classics here. Just feel "right".

I bought 3 chinese cleavers (Tojiro F-920, Suien, Sugimoto CM4030 Chinese Cleaver Small & Thin type), 1 Fujiwara FKH Santoku, fish bone tweezer. I was going to buy most of the above but ended with cleavers.

Did you get stung for import duty?

I'm thinking I may order one of the Hattori HD series, probably a 15cm and trial it for a few months first, then decide whether to get the rest to match or go for something like the Wusthof.

Do the proper japanese knives take any more looking after than the more mainstream stuff?

edit: trial not trail, i'm not going to trail a 15cm knife around, people might think i'm mental.

I have a mix and match collection of Porsche, Global, Sabatier, Robert Welch, Balance, Marttini and others.

Not a fan of Global (don't seem to hold an edge as well as others).

The ones that get the most use are the Porsche (I like the weight and they just look cool), the Marttini and the Balance.

Also I have 3 Aldi folded steel knives - WAY better than they should be for the money.

slainte 😀 rob

mrjmt - Member

Did you get stung for import duty?

Nope. The first one I ordered was Tojiro to test the delivery and to test the service. All well as they are highly regarded.

Then I ordered the rest together about a year time. No import duty etc.

I'm thinking I may order one of the Hattori HD series, probably a 15cm and trial it for a few months first, then decide whether to get the rest to match or go for something like the Wusthof.

You will not be disappointed with Hattori HD as it was high on my list until I decided I like cleaver. I also listed Hattori HD for you in case you do not like the look of patina. Hattori HD does not patina.

Do the proper japanese knives take any more looking after than the more mainstream stuff?

Not as far as I am concerned and they do hold the edge well (those listed above). The most I do to maintain the edge so far is by simply using leather strop on the edge that's all.

I have diamond steel and standard steel too but I don't use them on my Japanese knives except my cheapo knives ... plenty ... For my Japanese knives I use whetstones.

edit: trial not trail, i'm not going to trail a 15cm knife around, people might think i'm mental.

You might want to try Hattori HD Santoku (165mm - 177mm) or Gyuto (180 - 240mm). I prefer Nakiri (a smaller version of cleaver for fruits & veg ... but I use it on everything except chopping bones).

🙂

I bought a Tojiro DP from nipponkitchen & am very happy with it......and it's a thing of beauty.
They suggest ceramic disc sharpeners which are very easy to use.

nick1c - Member

I bought a Tojiro DP from nipponkitchen & am very happy with it......and it's a thing of beauty.
They suggest ceramic disc sharpeners which are very easy to use.

Tojiro DP is nice too but I don't like those use by Heston Blumenthal as I think they are rather overpriced and I am not sure about the balance. The blade seem a bit brittle too (noticed this from one with chipped blade at Fenwick departmental store several years back)

I prefer whetstone simply for learning to sharpen a knife properly but I also like to use the sharpening steel for my cheaper ones ... rather therapeutic when doing all those sharpening. 😀

I had Global and loved them but they all got stolen in Norway, tis a long story, must say I have nowt special now I just keep them super sharp.

I like Global but I don't like their price ... 😆

I plan to add this to my collection in future ...

[img] [/img]

I like my globals and prefere then for working with to the one sabatier carving knife I have.
I'd suggest that those who think they don't hold an edge are probably shapening them as per a western knife on a steel as opposed to the correct technique in a whetstone. Mine stay sharp for weeks (and i mean sharp enough to shave with, not sharp enough to hack at an onion with!) I love knives me!

There is a there is town in Germany called Solingen that specialises in making knives, razors and scissors (in the past swords). The main knife manufacturer is Zwilling or JA Henckels, also a smaller manufacturer called Wusthoff. Either brand are good but Zwilling is regarded as the best knife maker in Germany

"Guns for show, knives for a pro" to coin a phrase.

I have Global and really rate them. Tend to sharpen one a month or so.

We got a set when they were on offer in Selfridges and my wife rang me a few days later to say that she had put them in the dishwasher and all the edges were pitted and basically finished with.

I said surely you knew not to put them in the dishwasher. She replied that there was nothing in the box to say otherwise and she was right. For some strange reason all the sets on offer came packaged without any instructions or care advice.

Selfridges offered to send them back to be sharpened but after I kicked up a fuss they replaced them with a new set.

I have since added several to the initial set.

Some top advice and help here guys, thanks a lot.

I've ordered a Hiromoto Gingami No.3 Petty 150mm from JCK to see how I get on with the jap knives before I get carried away and order a whole set, this one seems to be a good beginner knife being stainless.
(Also means I get time to contemplate which knives I will actually use and just order the ones I need instead of replicating the sabatiers I have!)

I now have that excited feeling you get when you're waiting for a package to arrive from a foreign land with shiney things in it! 😀

Ignore me, just seen decision made.

Only buy what you need, you shouldn't need more than cooks knife, steel,pastry knife, paring knife, cranked lifter, non seated 11" slicer, boning knife, tongs, speed peeler, micro plane, timer, salter 4 in one, fish pliers. If I'm doing relief work I would take more than that to a kitchen.

@Frankers you forgot Dick in that list. When I did some private work out in Germany the knives were so cheap, my mother bought my brother whos also a chef a full set of wustolf direct, pennies they were.

transapp - Member
I'd suggest that those who think they don't hold an edge are probably shapening them as per a western knife on a steel as opposed to the correct technique in a whetstone.

I love knives me!

[img] [/img]

slainte 😳 rob

Fair enough! Want to sell the global whetstone?
No standard cooks knives in those, I still love a normal global G2 I bought from Mr Global who was doing demos in a kitchen shop.

My friend is a chef at a Michelin starred restaurant, and has worked for Heston Blumenthal - he recommended Mac Japanese knives (and got me some with a nice discount 😉 ).

http://www.mac-international.com/

This thing is incredible:

[img] [/img]

Got one of these too which is also very nice:

[img] [/img]

Oh and BTW he recommended using a steel all the time, then using a ceramic disc sharpener every now and then - said whetstones are only needed very occasionally when something needs properly re-sharpening.

transapp - Member
Fair enough! Want to sell the global whetstone?

No standard cooks knives in those.

Hmmmnnn. Maybe a decent 'traditional' cook's knife is a gap in my collection. Do have a Robert Welch one similar to the middle one above but don't use it much.

Could also do with a nice Chinese cleaver. Got a Sabatier cleaver and a cheapo Chinese one from the local Asian supermarket which does the job but is a bit rough round the edges.

[heads off to do some online shopping]

slainte 😳 rob

Right, I've got a bunch of global knives...and they're a bit shagged. I've tried the global ceramic, I've tried a whetstone and they last for a few cooking sessions and are crap again. Can I take them to someone who will sort them out for me so that I can then start looking after them again? I think they're beyond me, as an amateur getting them back to usable sharpness.

grum - Member

My friend is a chef at a Michelin starred restaurant, and has worked for Heston Blumenthal - he recommended Mac Japanese knives (and got me some with a nice discount ).

That top Mac Nakiri looks very nice with straight handle. It also looks like a workhorse to me with nothing fanciful. What metal is the specification? How much?

Put it this way most of the carbon steel Japanese knives will do the job nicely if the edge is maintained sharply.

I never buy a knife beyond £200 but I came close to spending more than that for a Takeda custom made AS Chinese cleaver.

Oh and BTW he recommended using a steel all the time, then using a ceramic disc sharpener every now and then - said whetstones are only needed very occasionally when something needs properly re-sharpening.

Yes, steel but only smooth steel and not the diamond steel. Whetstones yes and you do not need to use it too often if you use leather strop everyday before/after use.

If you have very expensive Japanese knives then I suggest you do not use steel in a hurry but try leather stropping. Well that depends on how sharp the knife is when I receive it.

deadlydarcy - Member

Right, I've got a bunch of global knives...and they're a bit shagged. I've tried the global ceramic, I've tried a whetstone and they last for a few cooking sessions and are crap again. Can I take them to someone who will sort them out for me so that I can then start looking after them again? I think they're beyond me, as an amateur getting them back to usable sharpness.

Check one of the link above with a shop selling Japanese knives in London and I think they do provide sharpening service.

I think your sharpening technique might need improvement. I started sharpening my cleaver using cheap ones.

What metal is the specification? How much?

Not sure of the specification and I can't remember exactly how much but I think around £60.

Oops, this is actually the utility knife I've got. So sharp you can easily shave with it! 🙂

http://www.chefknivestogo.com/macprutkn6.html

These are the most expensive ones they do - http://www.kuechenmesser.de/shop/index.php/language/en/cat/c21_Ultimate-Pro-Serie.html

grum,

This is the one.

[url= http://www.chefknivestogo.com/navekn6.html ]MAC Nakiri[/url]

That is also a good supplier and I nearly bought a Takeda from him but ended up getting some Chinese cleaver from JCK.

🙂

I've been more than happily using the same Sabatier cook's knife, Wusthof braed knife and a few assorted others for many years now. Pride of place goes to my gorgeous 5 1/2 inch bladed butchers boning knife that came originally from my mother's buthery shop. I've had it for over 30 years now and it has been reground once in that time but still has perfect balance and maintains a wondeful edge. I use a steel daily to dress the the it, and a stone very occasionally.
I will pass it on to one of my sons when I die.

Yeah that's the one chewkw

Aldi have their ceramic knives back in on Sunday - not pretending they're suitable for a pro kitchen but they're the sharpest knives I've ever used (and stay sharp), can chip if you use them on hard surfaces etc. (you're not supposed to) but cheap enough they're disposable (although mine have last over a year). The design looks a bit different in the pictures though so hoping they're as good as the last ones...

Had an email this morning saying that my knife has been dispatched from Japan and will arrive in 4-6 days.

Top service there, can't wait to see what its like!

As as stalker I have been using Mora knives for years. Top Swedish steel. Google is your friend.

They also produce the ikea +365 range. If you include the ceramic steel, <£30 you will pick up all you need in the domestic kitchen and some.

I appologise for mie atroshus spellin . V soz, me bad.

Isn't Sabatier just an area in France like Sheffield is in the UK. We have a few Sabatier knives from different manufacturers. The best ones carry through into the handle ie all one piece, the cheaper ones have a separate handle. Our best one is a Lion Sabatier. Great knives.

Well....

After only 4 days (!) the Hiromoto Gingami No.3 Petty 150mm arrived from Japan!

Hows that for top service?!?

Very very impressed with the knife, I'll certainly be ordering the rest from the same place, can't beat the quality at the price.

Made some soup last night so lots of veg chopping. Back to back with the sabatier, the Hiromoto was miles ahead. The one thing it stumbled on was a sweet potato, I think because the blade is so polished, there's no imperfections to let air between the blade and the potato so it kind of vaccums onto it. Think i'll include one of the knives with 'filets' when I order the rest to avoid this.

Thanks for the tip chewkw!

mrjmt,

The service provided by JCK is very good IMO.

Most of the Hiromoto series, especially the Hiromoto Tenmi-Jyuraku Aogami Super Series, are well known for their value and ability to hold extremely sharp edge. Hiromoto is top on my shopping list before I switched to Chinese cleavers and Nakiri.

This is also high on my next shopping list but from Taiwan ... made of Chinese bomb shell ... hope it's not toxic ...

Maestro Wu's bombsheel steel Chinese Vegetable Cleaver

[img] [/img]

Hmm, interesting, are you buying direct from Taiwan? If so, where from?

I now have a nice slit in the side of the tip of my index finger on my left hand and around 1mm missing from the end of my thumb on my left hand. Need to get used to a right hand sharpened knife, think my sabatier is ambidextrous, so i'm currently catching the tips of my left hand due to the cutting edge being slightly further over in relation to the handle (i think). That and its so sharp that you dont notice you've caught yourself until its too late! 😆

The more I use it though the more impressed I am, really happy I posted on here first and followed your recommendation.

Ceramic Knives?

Then you need YangJiang KingDouble Precision Ceramic Knives Manrfacturer Ltd!

Marco Pierre White uses a MAC knife. Gert big one. Cost about £700 squid.

learning to sharpen your knives properly will be more enjoyable then spending money.

sabatier are perfectly decent and learning the skills of getting a razor edge from using whetstones is really rewarding and will impress your friends more then some new knives.

also the pleasure will be extended over the long period it takes you to master this craft instead of the 2 sec it takes to click 'pay with paypal'

just my opinion of course

edit; sorry just noticed you have already forked out 😉 on new steel, ignore me, im probably wrong

mrjmt - Member

Hmm, interesting, are you buying direct from Taiwan? If so, where from?

From here in Taiwan ... [url= http://www.jendeindustries.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=JENDE&Product_Code=1032&Category_Code=OUTD ]Bombshell cleaver[/url]

Well some of the cleaver and Deba can go through your bone like butter.

brant - Member

Ceramic Knives?

No way! Those are for nancy boy ...

😆

oh ya Brant since you go to Taiwan often you should get the Bombshell knife ... Chinese cleaver.

Please watch the ceramic knife vid. It's quite awesome in so many ways.

brant - Member
Please watch the ceramic knife vid. It's quite awesome in so many ways.

I have. I still prefer the tried and tested traditional carbon or carbon steel related knives.

All that can be done by ceramic knife the same can be done by those proper Japanese knives. As for the demo of cutting a piece of paper or a bundle of papers all my Chinese cleavers can do that easily. No surprise there really.

Yes, I guess for those who are following the fashion trend then the ceramic knife might be a good idea after all they come in various colours. 🙂

I struggle with long sentences.

just get your hands on a big Dick. You won't be disappointed!*

[url= http://www.dick.de/en/tools-for-chefs-and-butchers/chef-s-knives/ ]the ladies will be impressed![/url]

*says me, counting Top Retail Butchering among skillset.

plus you can crush a clove of garlic with a real knife. try that with a ceramic knife and you'll be left with bits of broken china

I use global, they stay razor sharp and are comfortable/well balanced, if you want something really special have a look on Rutlands website, theyre a high end tool shop but they also sell some really high quality knives, all the way upto £450 a pop! Although they are hand made!

If you intend to hand sharpen your knife with whetstone then you might want to invest in this very handy tool. I will ask JCK if they can find one for me.

The Naniwa sink bridge is the cheapest so far while other brand will cost you.

[img] [/img]

Work something like this ...

[url= http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/indextool.mvc?prodid=MS-WSHOLDER ]in your sink.[/url]

Sink bridge works like this and very handy.

This is also good but expensive (Tojiro sink bridge).

[img] [/img]

adrian8100 - Member

Now kitchen is most important part of every home.There should be useful things for the work.
This is really helpful to taking nice ideas from here.

Most of the kitchens in that site are very poorly designed targeting at people who do not cook often. They are so cluttered that they will be a nightmare for cleaning. Very poorly design kitchens IMO.

If they want to design good kitchens then they should copy professional kitchens from all over the world.