wwaswas - MemberHe went to a games fair (he wants to be a programmer) last week - someone there said they'd give him work experience if he wanted it during holidays etc. Problem is if he does that he doesn't get paid for it I suspect...although would be good in terms of post-uni job hunting.
Yeah, this is a really good point, this sort of experience is invaluable and in the long term may be far more useful than a summers' earnings. And also supporting him so he can get useful experience is probably a lot more productive than just throwing bags of money.
Also from the little I've seen (we don't do a games design course because we are serious university, so this is from people going out of standard computing into the games industry), for games stuff extra-curricular programming is a huge job-finding-helper. Indie games designing, mod work or level building etc to show actual experience in the field. It's basically an informal portfolio. And this stuff is all effectively an unpaid part time job.
Past first year on most courses everything counts towards your final mark
Maybe, but graduate placements are applied for in your 3rd year. Job offers rely on your predicted grade based on your first 2 years so you'd do well to not neglect your 1st year.
Your average over the first two years is a good indicator of what you'll wind up with degree classification wise.
I am not saying there's anything wrong with learning for learning's sake! However, I'd want to set expectations. If my child went to university to study anthropology, or a degree that didn't have good employment prospects at the end of it then I'd discuss those before they went to uni.
i graduated in 2004 from Aberystwyth
Me too!
If your kids' happiness is what's important to you then you can do a lot better than just throw money at them for 3-4 years and hope they'll deal with the shock of looking after themselves once it runs out.
I think kids are different. Some are really not ready at 18 to take on the responsibility of funding an education. As parents hopefully we know our own kids and know how much support they need.
I just pinched a student budget leaflet... Our figures for living on halls (all based on 40 weeks of year, not taking into account costs outside of term time)
Accomodation- £4750
Food £1600
Laundry £120
Clothing £300 (LOLZ)
Books/equipment £250 average- varies a lot
Social £1400
Mobile £300
Total £8750
Little bit less for staying in rented (even with full year lease)
Some of it might sound frivolous but a mobile's really a necessity if you want to have a normal student life.
Also check out bursaries and scholarships. That might sound daft but every year we have unassigned funds because people just don't apply. It's not all low incomes and top achievers.
Also also- don't rule out really low hours work. Most universities employ a lot of students on short shifts- shops, bars, catering. My office runs a casual staff of about 150, on a zero-hours, work if you can basis and even working a few hours a week when it suits you can add up to a big difference. As adults we're used to thinking about big numbers, an extra £20 in your pocket as a student can be a big deal. But it removes any negative impact too.
(oh and it looks more interesting on a CV than "worked in Tesco"- "I helped run the open days for my uni")
I disagree that university is meant to be "some of the happiest times in their kids lives".
Sorry you feel that way. I had a ball, made great friends, and want the same for my kids.
I'd be pretty happy for a while if I had no responsibilities and no expenses.
Students have exams to pass, and will be living away from home and managing a budget for the first time. How does that equate with "no responsibilities and no expenses"?
Stuff costs money. Yes, I know that. But you don't need stuff to make you happy. My latest bike is specced with an SLX/XT/Zee drivetrain, when once I thought I had to have XTR to be happy so I know this for a fact!
So you're telling us that you have a fairly expensive mtb, yet you don't need stuff to make you happy? Great example bro.
If your kids' happiness is what's important to you then you can do a lot better than just throw money at them for 3-4 years and hope they'll deal with the shock of looking after themselves once it runs out. You can only protect them for so long right?
I'd rather their tuition fees and rent were covered by me than the bank. How is that "throwing money at them"?
Tell him to get a part time job and whatever he earns you will give him the same.
Friends who had it handed on a plate didn't go to lectures, got stoned and pissed and barely made it through Uni. Friends who did work had a great time and did well!
I (and my brother) pretty much just had our fees topped up by mum and dad to whatever the govenrment would have offered if we'd been at the bottom of the scale (this for me was pre the full fees, they were arround £1k/year, my brothers were about £3k but my parents paid those out as they thought it fair that we should come out with similar loans). We both got the full (~£.4.5k in 2004) loan
The loan was just enough to live on for a year (in year 1 this was pretty much the accomodation and food in halls and about £20 a week, in later years rent+food was less but needed more 'budgeting' as it didn't go out once a term on the same day as the loan went in), any jobs meant spending money, so we weren't topped up from the bank of mum and dad as it wasn't nececary.
I had two friends who's parents paid their rents leaving them the full loan to piss up the wall, spend on clothes, consoles, TV's, etc. They both failed.
I think student budgets just expand to fill the money available, if I had £20 for a week, I spent £20 on 'socialing', if I'd had £100 it would have been more booze, a t-shirt, bike parts and a more expensive mobile. Very little would have been on anything nececary!
If you were going down the paying their rent/bills and fee's route then I'd probably make it such that they were only given a bare minimum over this (e.g. round it up to whatever the loan would be), and don't let them get the loan as well. Whilst beig poor isn't fun in itself, I don't think being rich would make being a student much more fun than it already was. At the bare minimum it would encourage them to ballance their budget rather than getting a nice pad paid for and it not affecting their petty cash, has to be one or the other, just like everyone else.
If my daughters go to uni, I don't want them to spend all their spare time doing crappy, demeaning jobs
Doing crappy demeaning jobs while at Uni was probably the biggest motivation I had to pull my finger out and study enough to get a 2.1 - in between the unbridled hedonism and budget supermarket shelf-stacking.
Just saying.
@ransos
Some excellent cherry picking from you there! Bravo!
I'd argue a student reading for a low hours degree they're not engaging with has very little responsibility. Living away from home is not always a burden. I found the freedom exhilarating.
I've never said anywhere that managing a budget was easy. It becomes a lot easier if all of that budget is provided by Mum and Dad though.
My bike analogy was an attempt to illustrate that being fully provided for in a material sense doesn't always yield the best outcome. Some people do better once the safety net has been taken away and they have to look after themselves.
If you feel giving your kids a full ride through uni works best for them then go for it. They're your kids and you should know what's best for them.
Doing crappy demeaning jobs while at Uni was probably the biggest motivation I had to pull my finger out and study enough to get a 2.1 - in between the unbridled hedonism and budget supermarket shelf-stacking.Just saying.
If I'd done term time work, I wouldn't have had enough time to do the study necessary to get a 2.1
Just saying.
We've pushed him to go. In the main because we believe he'll be more employable with a degree than without. I went from A-levels to work but that was 30 years ago and I don;t think that the world is the same now.
This view needs so critical analysis...
I'm a graduate, and I interview and employ new graduates. IMO getting a degree is not the route to a better career that it used to be.
Graduate job opps, graduate starting salaries, career security and progression all need to be seriously considered, and quite often come up wanting. My kids aren't at that point yet (12 & 14), but it's not a given that I think they should go to uni
@ransos
Some excellent cherry picking from you there! Bravo!
Please point to where I've misrepresented you.
I'd argue a student reading for a low hours degree they're not engaging with has very little responsibility. Living away from home is not always a burden. I found the freedom exhilarating.
You appear to be arguing against opinions I do not hold.
I've never said anywhere that managing a budget was easy. It becomes a lot easier if all of that budget is provided by Mum and Dad though.
You're saying that being funded by parents is easier than being funded by the bank? Well I never!
My bike analogy was an attempt to illustrate that being fully provided for in a material sense doesn't always yield the best outcome. Some people do better once the safety net has been taken away and they have to look after themselves.
They're away from home, managing a budget, and trying to get a degree. They are looking after themselves.
If you feel giving your kids a full ride through uni works best for them then go for it. They're your kids and you should know what's best for them.
Yep - I doubt I'll regret giving them a start in life without a mountain of debt to weigh them down.
I got nothing from the folks and worked at uni, and it all went a bit awry leading me to drop out towards the end of the second year. Doing a technical subject that had 30 hours of lectures and needed as fair whack of study on top, then working part time as well, all ended being too much for me.
Certainly if you can afford to provide some financial assistance, in order to maximise the benefits of studying, I wouldn't hesitate for a second to do so. The question is how you do it, while allowing independence and teaching them the importance of budgeting rather than just being the proverbial bank of mum and dad.
never said anywhere that managing a budget was easy. It becomes a lot easier if all of that budget is provided by Mum and Dad though.
Surely if you have a grand you have a grand and the same outgoings regardless of who gave you the grand.
Don't know about you, but I'm a lot more careful spending money I've earned than money I've been given.
The only things I can gather from what you've said so far is that you're saving all your child benefit money for your kids, you don't want them to do "menial" jobs at university, you wouldn't have been able to get a 2:1 if you had to work during term time and your definition of "taking care of yourself" is very different to mine.
Don't know about you, but I'm a lot more careful spending money I've earned than money I've been given.
Funny I am very much the opposite, maybe thats due to the way I was bought up.
I'd argue a student reading for a low hours degree they're not engaging with has very little responsibility.
Can't see how this works. Does it matter if their contact hours are 3 or 30 hrs? Each student has the same responsibility to themselves. Just because some don't step up to that responsibility, don't assume that all fit that mould.
My student days are too long ago to be relevant, but I would strongly reiterate the wider experience / poverty / hermit experience. My parents had no idea what things cost, and worked on the basis that my grant would see me looked after. My first term diet comprised porridge, raw cabbage sandwiches and boiled rice with tommy k.
Thoroughly miserable experience - especially socially 🙁
