If that's the case wwaswas I'd consider a structured year out with an employer. I did the year in industry scheme way back in 1995. Practically everyone on the scheme went back to work for their year out employer over summer. I didn't go back because my placement employer went bust, but that's another story.
@wwaswas - yes I think a lot of summer jobs have been taken by the unemployed, plus weak overall economic activity means there are less shop/retail/waiter/pub jobs etc.
I would watch carefully the working thing (as I can see you are doing), what you don't want to do is jeopardise his A levels, its a really stressful time for kids, trying to decide what to do, where to go, getting an offer then getting the grades.
My first 2 years at uni I was on the maximum loan possible so got no help (I didn't ask to be fair). I worked Easter and summer to get some savings. Third year I had a year in industry, then in my last 2 years my mum helped me with food shopping because the slc reduced how much they were going to give me (from about 7k total to ~5.5k, then down again to 5k in final year).
I don't know if anyone is interested in the view from the other side, but as a lecturer i've found the students with part time jobs are the most organised. Having set hours to work provides a structure to the week and once students have got over the going out every night phase, they realise that time they aren't working is time they should be doing uni work.
There is a balance however, and those who take too many shifts just drift away. If anyone is thinking of supporting their kid i'd say save the money so they don't need a job in their final year.
midlifecrashes - Member
Watching this thread closely. Took eldest to her first open day on Saturday, Sheffield Uni, looking at 2015 entry. Cheapest Uni accommodation, self catered, shared bathroom is £4100, most is around £5100 self catered, en suite. Catered is £5685/6432 shared/en-suite. Sheffield is boasting it has cheapest living costs in Russell Group so dreading figures from others, London especially
I'd be very wary of claims about cost comparisons. Where i work we have relatively high accommodation costs but the contracts are much longer. We also don't kick everyone out at Christmas and Easter so parents don't have to hire a van/drive up and collect their student and all their stuff, and the students can stay around after exams have finished.
There is also an increase in private halls offering places and it is increasingly common for second and even third years to remain in halls.
To a degree we are talking about the same thing.
The pursuit of knowledge for its own sake is a noble thing, but university is not the only place that can be achieved. There are people on OU and distance learning courses who get more out of it than most people at Oxbridge or a Russell Group university studying the same thing.
University today to me is a place you go to in order to maximise your earning potential. You need to get out with a 2:1 minimum, preferably a year in industry, or some internships relevant to the field you want to enter post-graduation and a job offer lined up once you graduate.
If my child expressed a desire to go then I'd suggest they formulated a clear idea of what they wanted from university first.
OP, as your son leaves the house to set off to Uni say to him [b][i]'happy hunting son'[/i][/b] 8)
We've accepted the extra required for accomodation which was about £600 extra for the first year and will be £450 for the second year that starts in September.
For his first year we gave him £80 a month.
For his second year I've told him to find a job if he wants spending money.
We're in the same boat regarding the maintenance loan as the OP, our daughter gets the minimum. She's just finished her 2nd year at Leeds Uni.
We gave her £250 a month in her first year, as well as paid the difference between the loan and hall fees. Hall fees were paid in three installments over the year,just after each installment of the loan is paid out. She managed pretty well on that, not starving but not taking the piss with extravagant spending. She did have some savings going into the first year which she used for the Uni ski trip.
In her second year we had basically the same arrangement, topping up the loan to cover the rent,plus £250 a month, but then plus £20-30 a month for bills. She got herself a part-time job working in the unoin bar which pays for her 'non-survival' outgoings.
This september she's off for a year in Montpellier through the Erasmus programme and it's great: 1300 euros tuition fees for the year (UK student loan to cover this), she can get the UK maintenance loan if she wants it too, but the best thing is she gets given a 'monthly travel allowance' from the programme of 400 euros a month!! An actual grant! Which is more than we've given her each month anyway, plus rent and bills are £50 per week, instead of £70 rent pw plus bills in Leeds. So she's getting nothing off us next year. Result.
The year after will be tricky when she returns to Leeds for her final year and our youngest starts Uni - we were at Sheffield Uni with her on Saturday too, and we were very taken with it.
wwaswas - realise this isn't an option for everyone but have you considered purchasing a property in or near to Treforest re accommodation? Realise house prices have increased but I used my savings to buy a house in the Valleys (whilst studying at Cardiff but the Valleys were / still are much cheaper). Clearly will depend on many factors...
jms - we did discuss this but I'm not convinced that we'd save any money (we'd need to take out a loan to cover the purchase price) even if we did buy something that he could let a couple of rooms in and there's potential large expenses on the property plus any leglislative stuff we might have to do as a landlord.
Having said that a nice cottage out in the sticks would be nice for us to use during the summer 🙂
I got £5 a week lunch allowance.
I would buy a packet of cup-o-soup and a loaf of bread at the beginning of the week and spend the rest on beer.
Also on the University Open Day tour. I received a full grant and fees, then worked all summer to fund extras (including a car). Whilst university is an opportunity to flee the nest and learn financial responsibility, it is also a time to study! I personally don't think students should be working during term time, particularly in high contact subjects such as Science.
That said, if Teen1 chooses location appropriately, a buy-to-let in a reasonably placed campus town may be an option for offsetting accommodation costs. That rules out Oxford, Cambridge, London, of course... But is one scenario we are planning for.
Fees will be funded by the loan scheme.
3 children through Uni all got jobs. Because they worked and paid they were always keen to attended lectures to get their moneys worth. Yes bought them lap top and few items they needed when they asked.
Overall my experience leads me to the conclusion that those funded by the bank of mum and dad missed out on the real experience of working and gaining an understanding of the worth of money when you earn it yourself and achieving a goal in life on ones own merits.
When did university become "an experience"?I went because I wanted to learn and because my university was decent at a sport I played and offered me a great opportunity to do both. I'd also argue it made me who I am today by teaching me how to juggle responsibilities and by offering me a good look at what life would look like. Of course I had fun, but I don't think university should be lumped into "an experience" to be had in your late teens/early twenties. It is far more valuable than that.
All those things you got from it in addition to education are part of the experience.
If my child expressed a desire to go then I'd suggest they formulated a clear idea of what they wanted from university first.
You really are a bundle of laughs arent you. I did a degree, a masters and a PhD and never thought about what I would get out of it, I did it because I wanted too, because I loved the subject and wanted to push myself academically. I would like all children to grow up and have the opportunities I had.
If my daughters go to uni, I don't want them to spend all their spare time doing crappy, demeaning jobs, and I don't want them to leave with a mountain of debt that would've been unthinkable when I was their age. So all the child benefit we receive goes into a savings account, and they'll be getting it back when they're 18.
@CaptJohn - interesting thanks
Overall my experience leads me to the conclusion that those funded by the bank of mum and dad missed out on the real experience of working and gaining an understanding of the worth of money when you earn it yourself and achieving a goal in life on ones own merits.
Yeah, cos it's not like they'll spend the next [s]forty[/s] fifty years working, is it?
I'm in the same position as the OP, daughter starting in September.
I was thinking we'll cover the gap between maintenance loan and accommodation so thats all covered, and give her a weekly allowance for food and essentials, travel etc.
She'll have to find a part time job to cover anything else she wants, and I imagine we'll contribute towards books / materials etc.
Anyway, I'm sure we won't be saving any money not having her at home!
Summer job fine, but I can't see the point of a menial term time job. For one it detracts from study and frankly time when they should be enjoying themselves. The latter being an important part of development also.
Personally I'd agree to cover all rent, food and books plus a reasonable entertainment budget.
Though I'm kinda pleased I don't have to worry about this for 13 years...
EDIT: From a financial perspective I'd get them to take out max loans and use this but cover repayments myself.
because I loved the subject and wanted to push myself academically
He asked
If my child expressed a desire to go then I'd suggest they formulated a clear idea of what they wanted from university first.
So surely your answer is valid. Yes? And that was his point. Yes?
He askedIf my child expressed a desire to go then I'd suggest they formulated a clear idea of what they wanted from university first.
So surely your answer is valid. Yes? And that was his point. Yes?
He didnt ask a question.
Thinking back to my experiences of tref, have you considered just providing the seed funding for his first 9 bar? 😉
Yeah, cos it's not like they'll spend the next forty fifty years working, is it?
Nobody puts a gun to our heads and forces us to do it. You could be accused of making your children accept the status quo. [i]"Here you go son. I worked every day for 40 years till I retired and so will you. However, I love you so much that my largesse will extend to you having a few years postponing the real world while saddling yourself with debt and no guarantee of being able to pay it off."[/i] Sounds joyous doesn't it?
Why not give your kids 40k and tell them to start a business instead?
I am not sure why offense is being taken to asking an 18/19 year old to take a good hard look at why they want to go to university. Is a decision requiring such an enormous investment of time and money not worth some reflection?
[i]Is a decision requiring such an enormous investment of time and money not worth some reflection? [/i]
I hope no one ever asks me this re: a bike purchase 🙂
We've pushed him to go. In the main because we believe he'll be more employable with a degree than without. I went from A-levels to work but that was 30 years ago and I don;t think that the world is the same now.
I am not sure why offense is being taken to asking an 18/19 year old to take a good hard look at why they want to go to university. Is a decision requiring such an enormous investment of time and money not worth some reflection?
No offense is being taken that I can see and for my part it wasnt this bit I disagree with, its the bit about expecting students to work during term time to support themselves. It should not be expected, they are full time students. Some might want to do a few nights a week for beer money which is fine, but not for them to live. I worked all day on a farm and evenings in a pub during the holidays but term time I didnt and I dont think its right to have it as an expectation.
i graduated in 2004 from Aberystwyth (nice and cheap) and the parents paid for my tuition fee's, i got a basic non income assessed loan (£9.5k over 3 years) and £350 / month from my parents. i then paid for my accomodation and living costs.
1st year i racked up a bit of debt, then worked both 2nd and 3rd years - probably getting approx £150 / week avrg
i left uni with 2 student overdrafts (maxed out) and a fair bit on a credit card
my brother who graduated a 3/4 yrs ago got £450 - £500 month but went to an 'expensive' uni
Life was so much easier for students before My Blair decided we should all go to Uni.
We saved up money for ours as soon as they were born putting $10,000 a year into a fund for them.
Wow - how much was that worth after 18 years?
expecting students to work during term time to support themselves. It should not be expected
And students would also ideally take their degrees seriously and not see university as a 3 year vacation. We don't live in an ideal world.
Economic realities meant I had to work. No question that I'd have done better academically if I'd had to work less in my final year.
At the same time, I did better than a lot of folk who had a full ride. They may have been better off academically if they'd been made to pay some of their way. It would have taught them the value of what they were getting and whether university really was for them.
When I'm old and grey and the kids have flown the nest then I would love to go back for a Masters in a maths or physics related subject. But that would just be learning for learning's sake.
Finding the responses stating people don't want their children to do "menial work" laughable. My first pay packet from my "menial job" was one of the best experiences of my life. I'm sure your daughter/son will be parachuted straight into a CTO/CFO/C-level job into a blue chip company that is working towards world peace instantly upon graduation!
[i]No question that I'd have done better academically if I'd had to work less in my final year.[/i]
and that's our dilemma.
We want to find a balance between "Here it all is on a plate" and "You're on your own son and if it affects your study then tough.".
I guess we're fortunate we can consider giving him some cash each month, equally but we don't have it sat round looking for something to do, so it would be coming out of our income.
Nobody puts a gun to our heads and forces us to do it. You could be accused of making your children accept the status quo. "Here you go son. I worked every day for 40 years till I retired and so will you. However, I love you so much that my largesse will extend to you having a few years postponing the real world while saddling yourself with debt and no guarantee of being able to pay it off." Sounds joyous doesn't it?
Work? I don't know if anyone's told you, but stuff costs money.
Why not give your kids 40k and tell them to start a business instead?
If they came to me with a sound business plan I'd do my best to support them.
I am not sure why offense is being taken to asking an 18/19 year old to take a good hard look at why they want to go to university. Is a decision requiring such an enormous investment of time and money not worth some reflection?
I haven't taken offence. Equally, I'm not sure why so many are so keen to take all the joy out of what should be some of the happiest times in their kids lives.
Can you not just subsidize the minimum loan to top it up to be equal to what someone would get with the maximum loan / grants etc?? Surely that would be a good starting point and also put him on a level playing field with those people that aren't fortunate enough to have wealthy(ish) parents. You could always then treat him to the occasional dinner or new bike part etc throughout the course of the year but would be able to rest easy that he's in a similar financial position to his peers.
I'm fairly sure this is what my parents did when I went to uni. I got no loan (both of them are doctors) so they paid me monthly and I had to learn to make it cover rent, bills, food, going out etc. They continued paying my rent over the summer while I worked as an outdoor instructor (not very well paid). I would recommend encouraging him to learn a skill now as jobs for qualified sailing instructors, for example, are really easy to come by. As you get more experienced they pay quite well too.....when I started it was 15 a week. I still teach part-time now (am an engineer by trade) but now days the going rate is 120 a day!
It would be about £4000 a year to top up minimum loan to the maximum value I think. So paying his accom and making him live on the loan he can get would be the equivalent.
I disagree that university is meant to be "some of the happiest times in their kids lives".
It is a stage in your life which depending on what you're doing, who's around you and various other factors can be a good or a bad time, just like the other times. I am happier now than I was at university in several respects.
Of course I can see how that is the case for some people on a full ride cruising through their degree. Mum and Dad pay for everything, you have 3 hours of lectures a week that don't challenge you, or you choose not to engage with, and have no exams (this was true for my neighbour in halls in his first year reading English Literature. He had to go in and have a discussion with his professor as to whether he felt he'd done enough to pass). No slight to people on such degrees intended.
I'd be pretty happy for a while if I had no responsibilities and no expenses.
Stuff costs money. Yes, I know that. But you don't need stuff to make you happy. My latest bike is specced with an SLX/XT/Zee drivetrain, when once I thought I had to have XTR to be happy so I know this for a fact!
If your kids' happiness is what's important to you then you can do a lot better than just throw money at them for 3-4 years and hope they'll deal with the shock of looking after themselves once it runs out. You can only protect them for so long right?
If you can get some sort of halfway relevant work, working through uni puts you ahead of your peers- I can't remember the stats but a ridiculous percentage of fresh graduates have never done any form of paid work.
But, money concerns are one of the main reasons for dropping out or underperforming at uni- whether because of stress, or work impacting study, or similiar. And we see a lot of kids not really start to deal with it til it's too late, because they're kids.
Working in the trade- if I had kids and I could support them, I would. Probably some sort of conditions and expectations and I'd want to keep it to a level where they're basically comfortable and safe but not feeling fat.
I stayed at home, parents paid for travel card and gave me some money not much. Actually got a grant in my first year cause my sister was also at uni all £200 of it lol
[i]If you can get some sort of halfway relevant work[/i]
He went to a games fair (he wants to be a programmer) last week - someone there said they'd give him work experience if he wanted it during holidays etc. Problem is if he does that he doesn't get paid for it I suspect...although would be good in terms of post-uni job hunting.
In my mind that's probably your answer then....if most of the other people on his course are able to survive on that then so should he. I'd let him keep anything he earns as an incentive.
A quick bit of perspective for you… I'm a Plymouth University graduate (as of the week before last!). So, this comes from my recent experiences.
Getting a job is fine during first year, although most people find university to be a cutler shock as it is, and need time to get into the swing of how university works. Personally, I am grateful that I did not need to get a job, otherwise I don't think I would have done as well as I did. It's important to remember you need to have a social life as well as getting your uni work done, which does require a lot of time if you want to do well.
Past first year on most courses everything counts towards your final mark, and there simply isn't time for a job. It can be surprising just how much time uni work does take up… at the start of term you'll have a little time and after the first four weeks or so, you'll have none. That's just how the work and deadlines line up.
So, I would try to avoid expecting your child to get a job… there is a noticeable difference between how well those I know with jobs do, and those who don't.
You do need to find a balance though. Your child will need enough money to live in reasonable comfort, and some pocket money for having some fun. However, don't spoil them. It won't do them any favours in the long run.
For me, I had roughly the following budgets, hopefully that'll help you figure out what to give your child. Some of these numbers will be a bit out depending on where they're going though.
Rent + bills: £95p/w
Phone contract: £15/m
Food: £30p/w
Course bits: £20/pw (mostly software, and saving for new hardware)
Going out: £25p/w
I also managed to save between £100-150 per term towards the bike… maintenance, upgrades, etc. Much of this came from the going out pot.
It's worth making sure that they have a good budget for the first couple of weeks at uni too. Signing up for societies is often expensive (£20-50 each), but essential to making friends outside your course. Those from the cycling society, for example, are some of the best friends I could ever ask for.
I'm my case I was lucky enough to get the full loan, maintenance grant and a (minimal) nursery from uni, but was still pretty strict with my finances. Anything I had left outside the budgets laid out would get banked in my savings, so I must be one of the few students to come away from uni with more money than I went in with.
I hope that helps.
I think at the end of the day you need to make sure they've got enough cash one way or anther to have somewhere decent to live, enough to buy some decent food and the required text books etc. After that if they want money for beer, bikes etc they should have to earn it.
Nearly everyone I know at uni had a summer/holiday job or part time work to fund their entertainment.
When I'm old and grey and the kids have flown the nest then I would love to go back for a Masters in a maths or physics related subject. But that would just be learning for learning's sake.
Whats wrong with learning for the sake of learning?
If your kids' happiness is what's important to you then you can do a lot better than just throw money at them for 3-4 years and hope they'll deal with the shock of looking after themselves once it runs out.
I would hope, like me my son would be sensible enough not to be one of the ones who pissed his money away and phoned home for more. There's more than one way to skin a cat. Just because I wouldnt want my son (or anyone elses for that matter) to have to work during term time at uni it doesnt mean they wont be able to organise their money, budget and look after themselves. Also if they say I want to go to Uni because I want to learn more about biology, maths, drama or Mongolian basket weaving and the Uni accepts them, then they should go and not worry about money.
I have a son, just finished his second year at Cardiff. He take the 'loan' the from Government to cover tuition and living expenses. We pay for accommodation. At least this way we know that he has a roof over his head. Did the same for the first son, who was at Bath and it seems to have worked out ok. Don't pay them anything during the long vacation, after all I am paying for board and lodgings at home.
They have to watch their money, but there is sufficient to enjoy uni. We (my wife and I) made a choice that we wanted them to be able to enjoy Uni and get a degree. They will be working from when they leave until they are 70, and we are fortunate to be able to pay for this.
[i]you need to make sure they've got enough cash one way or anther to have somewhere decent to live, enough to buy some decent food and the required text books etc[/i]
I should have phrased my original question like this 🙂 The source is irrelevant it's how much they need that matters.
Thanks daniel - the money over and above rent/bills is less than I thought he'd need.
It entirely depends what university your child is going to, what they are studying and what kind of marks you think they are aiming to get.
If they are going to KCL, UCL, Imperial, Oxford, Cambridge etc etc to get a 1st or study Law/Medicine, then they will have to be working their balls off. At Oxbridge..... he/she would have to apply for permission to get a part time job.
If on the other hand they want to get a 2.2 from Lincoln, then they can probably work 30 hours a week. 😈 😆
Thanks daniel - the money over and above rent/bills is less than I thought he'd need.
No problem. I can't think of anything I've missed from that off the top of my head, but if I do think of anything else I shall post back here.
My parents covered my rent which was very nice of them.
I did take a year out so I had ~£9k in savings to take with me too and I worked every summer.
Having to get a PT job while in term time is not conducive to getting the most out of Uni IMO and I wouldnt let my kids do it. The benefits of being at uni are more than just education and I want my kids to have the time of their lives and do everything they can.
What do they cost you living at home now? I would take that figure and go from there. Anything you can 'shave off' that figure is money in your pocket to enjoy yourselves with while your kid is at uni.
I recently went through a friends student finances as realised just how much cheaper it is to be a student than working and paying to run a whole house and council tax and no cheap society events/trips/sports etc.
