Just made an important little amend there.
Yes, I thought the amnesia was a little convenient.
Some simply put their hand on a journalists knee and suddenly the witchfinder general demands they make a public apology.
Your terminology displays your agenda here. I think if you misread a signal you apologise and dont repeat it. However you cannot just put your hand on a persons leg and see if they complain. I fyou do this you do need to publicly apologise and perhaps go on a course.
If you do it in the workplace, when you are the person in power, then you really do need to be taken to task for this . At best its poor judgement and worse an abuse of power/sexual assault
Sorry chaps but that is the actual definition of assault - touching without consent. Yes it can be assault even without the touch but there is no need for intent to do anything other than touch from my understanding.
chakaping - Member
Also - Netflix pulled the plug so quickly, I reckon they know which way the wind is blowing on this.
They are finishing the season which was possibly going to be the last anyway
the house of cards had to collapse eventually
theres some irony in all of this that Spaceys defining roles have been in American Bueaty & as Frank Underwood
touching without consent
Not that wide,
The elements of the offence of sexual assault are:(i)A person (A) intentionally touches another person (B)
(ii) the touching is sexual
(iii) (B) does not consent to the touching, and
(iv) (A) does not reasonably believe that (B) consents.
From CPS site. Which I guess means touching a knee when you think you are in like Flynn would be not qualify until you are told to desist.
[quote=tjagain ]Any touching without consent is assault in law. Simple as.
Well no. Not simple.
As discussed on the ill-fated #MeToo thread, a blanket rule like that is overly-simplistic, inhuman and literally unenforceable.
thats sexual assault not a simple assault
What wouldn't be OK is if having been asked to remove it you then did it again.
Isn't that what he did?
Besides, if you think it's OK, what would you say if somebody did that to your wife?
we are clearly discussing sexual assault on this thread
Just wanted to clear up that I'm not Kevin
I think if you misread a signal you apologise and dont repeat it.
Sure - which is exactly what I said.
However you cannot just put your hand on a persons leg and see if they complain
Well no I agree, for example, you can't just touch the knee of the random stranger sitting next to you on the train, with whom you've had no verbal contact. That would be very wrong.
But say if you've been having an animated conversation with someone over dinner and you find yourself aware that there might be some flirting going on, a knowing look, a gaze held a little longer than normal, then perhaps a delicate knee touch might help you determine whether you've read the signals right or not.
At some point, one side has to touch the other otherwise the human race will die out.
If you do it in the workplace, when you are the person in power, then you really do need to be taken to task for this .
Tell that to my ex boss, she used to touch my knee all the time. I read it as affectionate and caring and just a little flirtatious. Sometimes it bothered me but only because it smacked of double standards.
My point is that the act is less problematic than the context in which its done, which is what your alluding to here, but the context is never as simple as 'manager/subordinate' or 'power/disenfranchised'. There's a lot more nuance to it than that.
<edit> I should also add that a lot of people really confuse the notion of 'power' in the work place as being simply the difference between super ordinate and sub ordinate. It really doesn't work that way. Most managers have zero 'power' over their direct reports.
that fact does not require that there must be confusion over consent.At some point, one side has to touch the other otherwise the human race will die out
if they have zero power then they are not your managerMost managers have zero 'power' over their direct reports
less power than you may think or not 100% power or whatever but not zero power.
Most managers have zero 'power' over their direct reports.
Really?
I regularly manage teams of free lancers and have a lot of say who comes on what job. As my industry is struggling at the moment, there are a lot of people looking for work.
I have the "power" to stop them getting regular work from my Company.
that fact does not require that there must be confusion over consent.
No I agree, and forgive me if I suggested otherwise. But it doesn't preclude a miunderstanding either.
if they have zero power then they are not your manager
The problem with this is that we could have a very interesting discussion about this; it's a very interesting subject and one I enjoy exploring, but we aren't going to do that through a forum.
I think probably the best we can do is recognise that 'power' and 'authority' or 'influence' are all quite different.
Managers have authority within a narrow context of work. They don't have power unless you want to equate authority with power.
less power than you may think or not 100% power or whatever but not zero power.
Yes I should have said 'far less power' than you might think. I agree. Apologies.
I regularly manage teams of free lancers and have a lot of say who comes on what job.
So this is a good example of influence rather than power.
So this is a good example of influence rather than power.
influence
[in-floo-uh ns]
Spell Syllables
Synonyms Examples Word Origin
noun
1.
the capacity or power of persons or things to be a compelling force on or produce effects on the actions, behavior, opinions, etc., of others:
Again with the bullshitting.
😐
@tj you highlight one of the major issues, touching someone “outside their clothes and briefly” is sexual assault as is something much more serious.
In that case here are tens of thousands of assaults (sexual or otherwise) being committed right in front of Jeremy Corbyn and he did nothing to stop them:
[img] 
[/img]
Or did everyone in this crowd ask for consent from everyone they were standing next to?
^^ Mass frottaging !!
Managers have authority within a narrow context of work. They don't have power unless you want to equate authority with power.
Whilst i would love to do a pointless semantic dance with you about the exact meanings of synonyms I shall politely decline.
the reality is bosses do have power over you in the workplace and anyone who does not accept this is , as chakaping, explained is just BS
I have no idea why you said within a narrow context of work as if anyone was arguing our bosses could make us do things when not at work
Honestly if anyone wants to argue the subtle nuances of what does and doesn't constitute sexual assault, inter-office relationships, male female psychology and #allmenaremonsters then you could just bump any of the other threads.
To my mind it seems what Spacey did is much more akin to what priests did to alter boys. Based on his relationship with Bryan Singer, I fear this will just be the tip of the ice berg.
After you scrape away the thin veneer of what bean to cup machine and what four grand bike do I want lots of you are a bit batshit mental aint ya:)
the reality is bosses do have power over you in the workplace and anyone who does not accept this is , as chakaping, explained is just BS
OK - define 'power'.
Whilst i would love to do a pointless semantic dance with you about the exact meanings of synonyms I shall politely decline.
OK - define 'power'.
[i]power
noun
noun: power; plural noun: powers
1.
the ability or capacity to do something or act in a particular way.
"the power of speech"
synonyms: ability, capacity, capability, potential, potentiality, faculty, property, competence, competency
"my mother suffered a stroke and lost the power of speech"
antonyms: inability, incapacity
2.
the capacity or ability to direct or influence the behaviour of others or the course of events.[/i]
What bit are you struggling with?
What powers you ask? I dunno how 'bout the power of flight?
That do anything for ya? That's levitation, holmes.
How 'bout the power to kill a yak from 200 yards away...
with miiiind bullets! That's telekinesis, Kyle.
How 'bout the power to move you?
[url= http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/kevin-spacey-colleague-concerns-actor-article-1.3600271 ]Head of the Royal Court Theatre in London[/url] had concerns about Spacey.
[i]"I think that many people in the theatre and in the creative industries have been aware of many stories of many people over a lot of years, and Kevin Spacey would be one of the people that people have had concerns about, yes," she said.[/i]
and apparently he groped a young male while working at the Old Vic according to a writer on twitter.
American news anchor Heather Unruh has also accused Spacey of attacking someone close to her.
😕
giantalkali - Member
tjagain - Member
Junkyard? Have you never drunk into oblivion where you have no recollection of what you did? I certainly have
Most haven't, don't judge everyone by your own nefarious levels.
It's pretty common.
I was at a rape trial where neither party could recall what had happened as they were both completely pissed at the time.
You see bottom pinches and squeezes all the time on the tube, simple passive aggressive shoves and mauling and stumbling.
Frankly how you’d stop the morons who interfere with others is beyond me, apart from retaliation... then that just causes more chaos... that’s why it goes by unreported.
Also - Netflix pulled the plug so quickly, I reckon they know which way the wind is blowing on this.
The wind blows towards trial via social media which damages all accused of wrong before any criminal investigations can take place. I havent heard anymore people report crimes to the media or police yet.
I haven't looked into this fully, but did the guy that reported this to Buzzfeed report this to the police before he went public or since?
There is one silver lining from all of this, which is without this abuse of power , people with awful acting skills but good "other" skills wont end up on TV or in films!
I havent heard anymore people report crimes to the media or police yet.
[url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-41828874 ]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-41828874[/url]
oikeith - MemberThere is one silver lining from all of this, which is without this abuse of power , people with awful acting skills but good "other" skills wont end up on TV or in films!
What does this sentence mean?
i assume the suggestion is that some people are so good at sex they getting acting roles even though they cannot act
The wind blows towards trial via social media which damages all accused of wrong before any criminal investigations can take place.
However without these accusations becoming public, as this case highlights, there are many victims who just suffer individually feeling they don't have the strength to report it, maybe even regretting that they haven't reported it but just feel its too late. Now one person has brought light to his activities others can realise "it's not just me, this guy is a predator".
[i]the suggestion is that some people are so good at sex they getting acting roles even though they cannot act[/i]
Yeah, saying that the casting couch works.
Could be true, how else would you explain [s]name deleted[/s] getting so many unsuitable roles?
true but it is also an easy way to trash someone [ without having to bother with evidence or proof] so we need some sort of balance. Better that folk report the things to authorities rather than to social media and the trial is a real one rather than trial by social media ordeal.
[i]Better that folk report the things to authorities rather than to [s]social[/s] THE media [/i]
"John" going straight to the BBC smacks of what can I get out of this, rather than a genuine claim of abuse.
From a Popbitch promo email just now...
And before them the late, lamented Holy Moly who were much less circumspect in their allegations.
Better that folk report the things to authorities rather than to THE media
True, but perhaps they are just being realistic?
Seems highly doubtful that a 30 year old accusation of a drunk man lying on top of you when you were 14, with no witnesses, would get that much attention from the authorities.
And it doesn't sound like something that would ever see court never mind a conviction.
Junkyard - lazarusi assume the suggestion is that some people are so good at sex they getting acting roles even though they cannot act
That was what I thought but was unsure. That kind of ignores the reality that we find good looking people attractive. It also doesn't make any sense when you have people like Harvey Weinstein being fed fresh meat on an industrial scale it seems.
So is this sexual assault?
I'm not convinced...
So is this sexual assault?
no, and it is a pathetic reach by people to suggest that it is.
The commentary on that video is crazy.
its inappropriate and who does it whilst not even talking to the person and then twice?
I would not be that comfortable around someone who did that sort of thing and I would challenge it.
Lets put it a way that some of you may understand
A homosexual* man is doing that to you - you still ok with it ?
* no offence meant to homosexuals or ti suggest they re predatory in any way to be clear.
its inappropriate and who does it whilst not even talking to the person and then twice.
the point was he was nominated for the same award as her, he patted her knee in an absent minded indication of sharing that aspect, but was distracted by the story telling, he removed his hand before she patted her knee, she then placed her hand on his hand, which was on his knee by then, and he put it back on her knee and said "Just like you" as he was reminded why he did it in the first place.
