philjunior - Member
Not meaning to derail this back onto the subject, but
I think we need to know what he actually did and put things into some perspectiveYou can quite literally use Google to find out the claims.
It sounds non ideal but consistent with a reasonably normal range of behavior and far, far away from Weinstein type antics. He had a party, this guy got bored and went to watch telly in his bedroom, he was drunk and horny and someone was in his room, he made a drunken clumsy OTT attempt at seduction that may have strayed into sexual assault, particularly considering his age. Ill advised/wrong, but miles away from tricking people into coming into your hotel room and trying to coerce them into sexual acts.
That's how I read it - it's a 30 year old memory & there's no telling how much of it was true but you could spin it to Spacey's perspective (not that he can recall it) that at the end of the party he found an attractive young lad on his bed so he thought "my luck's in" so he (clumsily) tested the water and got turned down, lad went home. End of. There's no indication Spacey knew his age at the time.
Spacey can have had no control over the memories in the Anthony Rapp's head as he was completely unaware of them and Rapp has made it clear he made no effort to broach the subject with him so they could reach some kind of "closure".
I know what it's like to have someone's inadvertent misdeed burn away at you for years and it's not pleasant but even I can see that from the description that this isn't the black and white attempted child rape story some might want it to be.
Oh and Spacey's been openly gay for a long while. It's not news.
House of Cards has been cancelled [s]mid filming.[/s]
^ it would appear that Kevin may have a lot of skeletons in his now open closet. Shame he chose to hang coming out which what appears to be a habit of sexual predatory behaviour ... maybe
I'm not sure how he could comment on an allegation made by another man, without "coming out".
Boo!House of Cards has been cancelled [s]mid filming[/s].
Why now? Why are we having this debate about old Hollywood guys when meanwhile, on the other side of the USA, a man sits in a big chair in a big white house. A man who said “I’m automatically attracted to beautiful — I just start kissing them. It’s like a magnet. Just kiss. I don’t even wait. When you’re a star, they let you do it. You can do anything. Grab ’em by the pussy. You can do anything.”
All of this outrage is misplaced. We’re making guesses and insinuations about what may or may not have happened to a fairly well-known actor, and yet the President of United States admits sexual assault on camera and we’ve all forgotten just a few months later.
<Insert your favourite Walter Sobcek image here>
^^ not an unreasonable question but then we have the whole Bill Clinton saga
Yep, but don't worry we can play the word association game all day...
http://www.newnownext.com/19-republican-politicians-brought-down-by-big-gay-sex-scandals/12/2016/
https://www.ranker.com/list/republican-sex-scandals/web-infoguy
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_federal_political_sex_scandals_in_the_United_States#2010.E2.80.932017
What we can say is that there is a power problem. Then there is the acceptance issue where people still voted for a guy who was proud to confess to sexual assault and the rest
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/10/26/16526922/harvey-weinstein-donald-trump-sexual-harassment
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/oct/27/donald-trump-sexual-harassment-claims-women-lying-white-house
the amount of standards it's hard to use term double there
Seems maybe Spacey's house of cards may be starting to fall.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-41812439
House of Cards has been cancelled mid filming.
To be completely narcissistic, next series (which they're still going to make) shouldn't have been the last anyway, the story is told, the negative press on the actor will make it easier to kill of the character, which is how it should have always ended.
Sometimes it needs a trial by media to kick the authorities into doing anything. Far too often complaints of sexual misconduct, assault and rape have been ignored by the authorities we rely on to protect us because of the supposed power and/or fame of the perpetrator. The Saville revelations went some way to chip away at the abuse by celebrities in the UK, the Wheinstine case looks to have done so again at a wider group of authority figures and more internationally.
Yes, obviously it gets talked about and the subject matter emblazoned all over the media platform....
As is proven by a thread on single track about it.
But..... and it is a big BUT.... you’ve all made your own minds up about guilt/sexual harassment/punishment without really knowing what the circumstances were between the two individuals.
Witchunt by Media is what it is, and you’re all involved in it.
so he thought "my luck's in" so he (clumsily) tested the water and got turned down, lad went home. End of. There's no indication Spacey knew his age at the time
Ah, but according to a lot of people who commented on the other thread, this ^^^ is the very definition of sexual harassment.
Quite a number of people who posted on that thread made it really clear that the definition of harassment/assualt is whatever the person on the receiving end of that approach thought of the approach.
If they decided that they've been harassed or assaulted then, according to some poeple, that is enough for it to be so.
I'm with you though; I think that making a pass at someone doesn't automatically consistue harassment or assault, but it might based on other variables.
Of course, the real issue with the Spacey story is the age of the individual. A 14 year old boy rarely looks like anything other than a 14 year old boy. It almost certainly doesn't make Stacey guilty of peodphillia (as has been suggested by others in the press), but it's clearly very wrong.
Quote from Julia Hartley-Brewer is interesting -
[i]"I believe it is absurd and wrong to treat workplace banter and flirting – and even misjudged sexual overtures – between consenting adults as being morally equivalent to serious sexual harassment or assault,” she said in a statement.
“It demeans genuine victims of real offences."
I [i]kind of[/i] agree with her - but there is a problem where one of the consenting adults has "power" (ie. is their superior in the workplace) over the other. Then it should be reported - but NOT to the World! Just to their HR departments.
That a bloke putting his hand on a woman's knee (15 YEARS AGO!!) is now national news is utterly ridiculous.
(sorry, not Spacey related, but relevant-ish!)
Witchunt by Media is what it is, and you’re all involved in it.
Whilst that may be true, you don't seem to show any qualms of doing exactly that when it comes to politicians.
[/url]CallmeDumbass proved that even porking pork doesn’t get you sacked.
and 13 in Spain until 2015.
FWIW that was more to do with gypsy weddings rather than something that would be socially acceptable in mainstream society - most of Spain has fairly similar views to the UK about the subject.
You are right, but that’s not illegal.
As far as I’m aware putting your nob in a dead pigs head is perfectly acceptable form of an initiation ceremony only Tories are perverse to..
Trying in vein to align that comment by me to this thread is very poor form, even by you.
Carry on.
That a bloke putting his hand on a woman's knee (15 YEARS AGO!!) is now national news is utterly ridiculous.
(sorry, not Spacey related, but relevant-ish!)
depends if it encourages more people to come forward , tho jhb has couched her statement so that anyone that let him go further will be seen as weaker than her.
Interestingly Fallon isnt on the tory spreadsheet (despite having previous for allegedly getting too close to russian honey traps when drunk)
still Murdochs leak of this has been effective as its now being dissmissed as PC gone mad, rather than justifications for sackings, by-elections....
mogrim - Member
and 13 in Spain until 2015.FWIW that was more to do with gypsy weddings rather than something that would be socially acceptable in mainstream society - most of Spain has fairly similar views to the UK about the subject.
In my experience on school trips to Spain the constant, unwanted and lecherous attention from grown men toward 14 and 15 year old girls contradicts your post.
In my experience on school trips to Spain the constant, unwanted and lecherous attention from grown men toward 14 and 15 year old girls contradicts your post.
ime a random club night at Ritzys of Dunstable in my youth would see underage girls getting similar attention from lecherous drunk blokes.
kimbers - Memberime a random club night at Ritzys of Dunstable in my youth would see underage girls getting similar attention from lecherous drunk blokes.
Yeah well in a club there's at least the some plausibility that the girls in it will be over 18, dark lights and alcohol to lower inhibitions. Trying to grope a young girl on a sunny street in Barcelona in broad daylight or taxi drivers asking them to rub their chests is......different.
Yeah well in a club there's at least the some plausibility that the girls in it will be over 18,
tis true was often the bouncers that let them in
Im not saying dunstable was a shithole but the 1st girl in my year to get pregnant was teh daughter of the vicar & our school nurse!
(tbf it all passed me by as I was far too busy playing Dungeons & Dragons than being cool)
but I digress
Spacey is a sleazebag and his career is finished
I wondered why he was only ever good in American Beauty.
Why now? Why are we having this debate about old Hollywood guys when meanwhile, on the other side of the USA, a man sits in a big chair in a big white house. A man who said “I’m automatically attracted to beautiful — I just start kissing them. It’s like a magnet. Just kiss. I don’t even wait. When you’re a star, they let you do it. You can do anything. Grab ’em by the pussy. You can do anything.”
http://newsthump.com/2017/10/31/television-president-held-to-higher-standards-than-the-real-one/
Trying to grope a young girl on a sunny street in Barcelona in broad daylight or taxi drivers asking them to rub their chests is......different.
I've certainly not seen anything like that in Madrid.
Spacey committed a pedo act, simple as...but because he's a well liked 'luvvie' and at the same time came out as gay he cleverly and cynically moved himself into the victim category....which is odd because the left have always hated conflating homosexuality with pedophilia....but it would seem in Spacey's case/defence it's ok.
It's hilarious watching the double standards at play here.
This is the problem with social justice, it's not justice at all, it looks for victims, it looks for excuses for criminal behavior etc...how about not giving a crap what color, age or sexuality the perpetrator is and just prosecute the crime.
Spacey molested a 14yr old, charge him with it....it doesn't matter that he's gay, or was drunk or any of the other claptrap being spouted about his life....if any of these things are genuinely found to be mitigating factors then a jury will decide accordingly.
It's not rocket science.
he cleverly and cynically moved himself into the victim category
He hasn't done this at all. You're bringing your own agenda to it.
His career is potentially finished and there may well be legal charges arising, but you understood that detectives don't just charge someone based on a news headline, yeah?
Trying in [s]vein [/s] vain to align that comment by me to this thread is very poor form, even by you.
I know it is frightfully inconvenient when someone points out one's hypocrisy. But you carry on repeating some scuttlebutt, whilst criticizing people for discussing allegations where someone has actually gone on the record.
From a Popbitch promo email just now...
We'll be back as normal on Thursday. So if Kevin Spacey wants to prepare any more dogshit excuses, he has 48 hours.
They've been sharing rumours about him for many years.
i think you mean its amusing see you search for a way to make this all about lefties so you can shoehorn in your own personal agenda.It's hilarious watching the double standards at play here.
Back to the original post, I'm not sure he will get away with it ,whether he " happened " to be the last person there with a 14 year old by accident or design will need to be examined , if he is a predator on a more regular basis then the allegations will start emerging .I don't think it will end well for him.
Also - Netflix pulled the plug so quickly, I reckon they know which way the wind is blowing on this.
Spacey molested a 14yr old
Did he, has that detail now been published on the matter?
Sounded to me like a clumsy drunken attempt which went nowhere. If found guilty of that what would you even get, would it even make it to court?
you think it wont go to court if you pick up a 14 year old place them on your bed and then mount them ?
you really think this?
Sounded to me like a clumsy drunken attempt which went nowhere.
But presumably even attempting it is a problem when it is a minor.
Spacey committed a pedo act, simple as.
Well not technically, since pedophillia is the sexual attraction to pre-pubescent children and at 14, almost certainly you're beyond that. But we have an age of consent for a reason.
Sounded to me like a clumsy drunken attempt which went nowhere.
Notwithstanding the child's age, yes that's precisely what he and quite a lot of other men have done. Some haven't even done that. Some simply put their hand on a journalists knee and suddenly the witchfinder general demands they make a public apology.
It's absolutely right and proper that we call to account geniune instances of abuse, assault and harassment.
It's entirely wrong when we end up in a situation where all you need to be found guilty of 'something' is for Abigail Williams to stand up and cry 'I saw Goody Proctor dance with the Devil'.
he cleverly and cynically moved himself into the victim category
Did he? All the media coverage I've seen/read has been universally damning of his alleged actions and of his decision to come out at the same time.
..which is odd because the left..
Ah here we go. What on earth has left/right got to do with it??
You do realise the story was originally broken by BuzzFeed which is pretty far over on the lefty/liberal side of the divide?
You are bringing your own agenda and shoulder chips.
Some simply put their hand on a journalists knee
You think that's OK?
Julia herself said she did not consider it sexual assault or sexual harassment, she said he tried it on and she put him in his place.
It was 30 years ago and only 50% of the parties involved have any recollection of it. There is nothing to prove as nothing can be proven. There will be no evidence as there can be no evidence other than the poor (now 45 year old) lad's vivid memories of the night.
I'm the same age as he is and the things I can remember clearly from 30 years are very few &far between and what relationship they have with what actually happened are open to debate. The only reason to do this now is to hurt Spacey publicly and I think it'll have the desired effect. Is it fair that this happens in the public domain without any checks or balances of appropriate legal proceedings?
Spacey may be a serial offender but as yet no-one has come forward with anything that's gone to court so either he's innocent until proven otherwise.
..which is odd because the left have always hated conflating homosexuality with pedophilia
Gosh, the 'right' think homosexuals and paedophiles are one and the same? Now, that's odd.
You think that's OK?
Yep.
What wouldn't be OK is if having been asked to remove it you then did it again.
It was 30 years ago and only 50% of the parties involved [s]have[/s] admit any recollection of it.
Just made an important little amend there.
geetee1972 - Member
You think that's OK?Yep.
What wouldn't be OK is if having been asked to remove it you then did it again.
Any touching without consent is assault in law. Simple as.
tjagain - MemberAny touching without consent is assault in law. Simple as.
Nope.
Any touching without consent is assault in law. Simple as.
And yet millions of people do it every day without even thinking. Strange how we're not all locked up.
Actually I'm not sure simply touching is assuault. I think it has to be with intent and actually you don't need to have physical contact for assualt to be committed. It's enough to convey the intent with menace or otherwise.
