its inappropriate
it certainly is
was just harking back to TJs definition however...
not that its particularly relevant to Mr Spaceys case however..
Seen a few stories come out this morning suggesting he has form..one on the bbc site.
oh dear i quite liked him as an actor..
So is this sexual assault?I'm not convinced...
It's not sexual assault.
It looks inappropriate and weird. However, it seems to me that he didn't even seem to realise what he was doing.
As someone who has seen a couple of Adam Sandler films, I would say that this is the least of his crimes.
It's a grey area where i think it will all just depend on context and intent and we will never be fully able to be sure of the answer
agreed some folk are just more tactile and that is all it is.it seems to me that he didn't even seem to realise what he was doing.
Its like sexism its not a word its an attitude and whilst certain words are indicative they are not conclusive
Touching someone knee may be innocent [ still inappropriate but not sexual] or it could be sexual.
You cannot always say for certain and this may be why they do it
On the question of why these allegations have surfaced via the media rather than through the police, it may be that statute of limitations stuff have left the accusers with the impression that there was little the authorities would do about it. For the alleged offences here in New York the statute of limitations might be 5 years.
it might also be because there is no evidence and you can harm them with the claim.
We also need some assumption of innocence here
Someone said someone did something is not proof . Spaceys' career seems over a series cancelled - affecting others in the industry - on one story[ yes more are coming out]. I am not saying the story is not true but if you want to hurt a figure in power then its a very good way of doing it, the mud will stick. Given this we need to make sure we have some balance/check to the claims.
We all want this sorting out but we dont need a McCarthy type trial by social media
agreed some folk are just more tactile and that is all it is.
yes, the duration of that first tap on her knee was quite short, and the second one was only longer because of her tap and gestures after that.
It was of a similar duration as me touching a ladies shoulder as I guided her to her seat in a resturant, if I were to do that.
I've been on first dates where I have got in the neck afterwards for not being tactile enough, even though I think the first date should be more 'checking each other out'.
And it seems most ladies on these dates are expecting that 'spark' on the first date, that's going to be pretty hard to do when most are expecting tactileness, etc. Controlling gestures, such as a guiding hand on the shoulder as above, might well be part of that.
We are going to end up like in Tokyo where they have host bars for ladies to go for attention from male staff, the opposite of hostess bars.
😆As someone who has seen a couple of Adam Sandler films, I would say that this is the least of his crimes.
Junkyard - lazarusSomeone said someone did something is not proof . Spaceys' career seems over a series cancelled - affecting others in the industry - on one story[ yes more are coming out]. I am not saying the story is not true but if you want to hurt a figure in power then its a very good way of doing it, the mud will stick. Given this we need to make sure we have some balance/check to the claims.
We all want this sorting out but we dont need a McCarthy type trial by social media
I'm not disagreeing with the sentiment of your post but it does occur to me that social media may be the perfect tool for tackling people who are all powerful within their world and who are serial abusers.
A homosexual* man is doing that to you - you still ok with it ?
I've got a gay friend who does this all the time. He's just one of those tactile touchy feely people. Absolutely nothing sexual it's just a way he expresses friendship. I certainly don't have a problem with it nor does anyone else. Not sure when fleetingly touching people became such a problem 🙁
On that Adam Sandler clip, I keep seeing websites that say he touched her knee repeatedly - which is a stretch as it was only twice - and that she had to tap his hand for him to remove it, which she did not either.
It is an indication of pathetic society is nowadays - Justin Bieber has a full torso tattoo and people feel 'let down' and bleat on Twitter, and the fact these acts have so many followers is pretty pathetic as well.
I dont disagree its how we strike a balance so that the stories get out but we can also have some sort of checking of the accuracyI'm not disagreeing with the sentiment of your post but it does occur to me that social media may be the perfect tool for tackling people who are all powerful within their world and who are serial abusers.
Few of our careers would recover if someone accused us of rape.
That said its probably better to err on the side of anything that makes it easier for the victims
Did she look like she was consenting to you?Not sure when fleetingly touching people became such a problem
It becomes a problem when a tactile person touches the body of someone who does not want to be touched or touched there.
repeatedly - which is a stretch as it was only twice
He did repeat the touch
We are obviously watching a different clip she goes to move it he responds by putting it back on and she has to move it again. She is clearly not consenting to it and he clearly does not see this [ if you want top give him the benefit of the doubt] or respect this if you want to have a dig. She then looks down at his hands to make sure there is not a third incident. She is not consenting to nor wanting the touch. Its her body and it is her choice- and that she had to tap his hand for him to remove it, which she did not either.
I think this has been a problem in teaching for a while now, an accusation of inappropriate contact can be used as a weapon by a trouble making pupil, and at the same time cannot be ignored. How do schools and the authorities deal with the situation there?
Not sure when fleetingly touching people became such a problem
I don't think it has. I think was is being highlighted is a specific situation when some-one in a more powerful position starts to touch/feel/otherwise act inappropriately towards some-one with less power. It's that dynamic that's being highlighted rather than flirting, or touching where people are more or less equals. (like a date for instance)
We are obviously watching a different clip she goes to move it he responds by putting it back on and she has to move it again
what clip are you watching?
He puts his hand on her knee for a fraction over a second, then he removed it to his knee.
She had gone to tap his hand but he had already moved it back to his knee, so she tapped her own leg as his hand wasn't there anymore, then she moved her hand over to his hand and tapped it.
Then he nodded as reminded what he was doing, put his hand back on her knee for a fraction longer than the first time, and she put her hand on top on his, actually made a little brushing forward action and tap, then he removed it without any prompting.
He was trying to do some sort of 'luvvies' empathy gesture, and said "just like you". You could easily imagine Emma Thompson doing it to a fellow actor during a convesation on that sofa.
no pudding?
He's just one of those tactile touchy feely people.
Yep, a guy I work with often touches me, gives me a quick shoulder massage etc,. If it bothered me I would tell him but is a concern for those that may not feel comfortable telling him.
turner there is no way she is consenting to that touch and no way anyone can think that
Give it a rest FFS, go wet a bed elsewhere.We are obviously watching a different clip she goes to move it he responds by putting it back on and she has to move it again. She is clearly not consenting to it and he clearly does not see this [ if you want top give him the benefit of the doubt] or respect this if you want to have a dig. She then looks down at his hands to make sure there is not a third incident. She is not consenting to nor wanting the touch. Its her body and it is her choice
“We don’t believe anything was intended by Adam’s gesture and it has caused no offence to Claire”, a spokesperson for the actress confirmed.
In fact I think Emma Thompson is suppossed to have ruffled Adams hair on the same show, and people are questioning why that hasn't been flagged as inappropriate.
It's because we are so media driven nowadays with lots of small outlets trying to grab news and traffic share, that stories like this get blown out of proportion so they can make a headline out of it.
It's like an internet lynch mob - it's like those neanderthals that painted paedo on a guys garage door in wales because they had found out that he was a pediatrician and mistaken the word.
Give it a rest FFS, go wet a bed elsewhere
keyboard warrior...
dunno if its assault, just creepy
Although we shouldn't loose sight of the fact that there is a real and serious problem that needs dealing with. There may be some media (including social) speculation and attention grabbing, but that is a lesser consequence to the appalling crimes that have been uncovered.
Have you got some grown up words you could use instead?Give it a rest FFS, go wet a bed elsewhere.
Yes turner it is an issue because its not always clear what is and what is not ok. We may end up in a stifled world where no one risks friendly touches but its usually only a real issue when someone overly tactile meets someone who is not at all tctile- or retring us to the topic its predatory in nature.
I dont think he meant anything by it either but I dont think she consented to it either. Hence we all have to be careful.
I am from the north we call everyone luv , its just what we do . When i moved it took a few days to realise unknown females found this sexists and patronising - it was not my intent so I stopped. This would be my advice to the tactile types as a general rule with folk they dont know well/have just met - may vary on a date.
Yeah, just a bit creepy - I thought the whole exchange looked a bit awkward. I think terming it as “sexual assault” is going overboard a bit.
Guys who can’t figure this shit out need black and white rules for what is and isn’t ok and need to break down footage like this into a frame by frame commentary are a bit of a worry though. I imagine they have quite a few first dates but not many second ones.
Holy shit, the world's gone mad*.
They were on a televised chat show!
As Julia Hartley-Brewer said, this kind of thing really is demeaning to "genuine victims of real offences."
*[edit]madder
Is no one safe from this predator? 1min02secs.
Is no one safe from this predator? 1min02secs
good point.
And people that really do get "shocked" by something they see on a televised chat show clearly have absolutely no idea what the real issue is.
DezB - MemberAnd people that really do get "shocked" by something they see on a televised chat show clearly have absolutely no idea what the real issue is.
I can't help but wonder what someone like Mukhtaran Bibi would make about a furore over someone touching a woman's leg.
Who?
Oh shit yeah..
would that not rather depend on what they saw . Do you mean this clip we watched ? no one has compared it to the other events or said it is as bad but you smash down those straw menAnd people that really do get "shocked" by something they see on a televised chat show clearly have absolutely no idea what the real issue is.
I cannot imagine she would be siding with the benny hill fan cub who think its ok to touch a woman without her consent because its not as bad as rape or what winstein did. Odd tangent to fly off on and whatabouterry at its lowestI can't help but wonder what someone like Mukhtaran Bibi would make about a furore over someone touching a woman's leg.
Never tapped someone on their shoulder to get their attention? Hope you got their permission first.
touching someone shoulder whilst saying excuse me is not the same as touching their knee is not the same as pinching their arse is not the same as grabbing their pussy - do some of you really need this explaining to you?
As i said earlier much of it depends on both who does it, where , what circumstances and for how long.
Did she look like she was enjoying it ?did she react like his lifelong friend to the touch? Apparently we are not all the same and you need to adapt your behaviour accordingly or crack on touch a woman where you like and if she moans its her problem and remind her its not as bad as gang rape 🙄
Junkyard - lazarusOdd tangent to fly off on and whatabouterry at its lowest
You are naval gazing into the minutiae of which social gestures may or may not constitute sexualised micro aggression. Meanwhile there will be women all over the world who will tonight have to try and piss in a ditch unseen by any men because that would be fair game for them to be raped. And if they are raped, the only decent thing for them to do is kill themselves. And even if they report that rape they will still be liable to prosecution for having instigated that rape.
I guess you can't stop that with a hashtag though so let's not ever discuss that kind of misogyny or sexual abuse.
If you want to call that whatabouterry, fine, do so. And you can scramble all you like to try and insinuate that I am trying to say that sexual misconduct is okay because it's not as bad as gang rape - but any rational observer should see that all I am doing is trying to establish some context. Something you've clearly lost when you're deconstructing Adam Sandler frame by frame.
I’m starting to wonder just how much the Porn Industry is thinking about all what’s going on.. 😕
Touching their knee whilst sitting next to them during a conversation is the same as pinching their arse or grabbing their pussy? What a strange opinion to hold.
I presume you know neither of them but are happy to draw conclusions from a few seconds of a clip. Meanwhile it has already been clarified that...Did she look like she was enjoying it ?did she react like his lifelong friend to the touch?
“We don’t believe anything was intended by Adam’s gesture and it has caused no offence to Claire”, a spokesperson for the actress confirmed.
Hope someone else points the finger at Spacey soon 'cos this is pathetic.
Touching their knee whilst sitting next to them during a conversation is the same as pinching their arse or grabbing their pussy? What a strange opinion to hold.
Infor a penny in for a pound
Once the internet get saturated with crap like the Sandler thing everyone will sit there thinking 'what's all this fuss about?' and lose interest. Then the Wenstein's of the world can go back to how they were.
As usual with ****ing humanity, an issue gets raised, some bad things get discovered and an opportunity for debate and social progress arises. Then a week later we're debating whether Adam Sandler's tactility is a problem or not... 🙄
FFS
Some people are very tactile, some people are not necessarily happy with being touched. I am one of the latter people and I remember every shoulder squeeze, back rub and knee brush like a polaroid. Do I consider those touching me to be doing so out of a sexual or power-dynamic motivation? **** no, some people just like touching people.
I'd be mighty pissed off if I woke up with Kevin spacey (allegedly) spooning me though.
Adam sander aside touching for the first time when starting to date you are testing the water.
You think you are doing ok getting the right signals so you go in for a kiss, the lady or man is open to a kiss you put your hand around her waist. You then go for her bum over her clothes, her response is wow tiger.
Have I tested the water and been rebuffed or have I just sexually assaulted her. Maybe she lets me touch her bum now I am thinking about putting my hand up her top. Should I ask first.
Generally knee touching can be testing the water in a relashionship Or it can be just friendly how are you or it can be completely uncalled for.
I won't be long before some people (including on here) will be crying out about people sitting next to other people without consent. How close is too close when sitting next to someone? What if people don't like other people sitting next to them, should we only have single seats and ban all benches?
and you are engaging in whatabouterry. No one is saying this is the worst issue that women face or that we should ignore other issues.You are naval gazing into the minutiae of which social gestures may or may not constitute sexualised micro aggression
I do so love to get rational lesson from folk engaging in whabouttery and straw men attacks- disd she look like she was consenting to you - its no thard to answer but hey you attack me , wiht a made up argument, if you wish to claim the rational high ground.any rational observer should see that all I am doing is trying to establish some context. Something you've clearly lost when you're deconstructing Adam Sandler frame by frame.
I would try rereading what I said and as for my question the press release may also be indicative that females still feel they have to dsay it was ok as i note you dont wish to claim it looks ike she was enjoying it. She was not its obvious to everyone - even sandler if he has looked.Touching their knee whilst sitting next to them during a conversation is the same as pinching their arse or grabbing their pussy? What a strange opinion to hold.
are you capable of a rational conversation without extremes of hyperbole [ Yes I know its me saying it 😯 ]I won't be long before some people (including on here) will be crying out about people sitting next to other people without consent
Fair point i shall say no more on it and lets get back to the proper issue which is can we sit next to each other in pubic apparentlyThen a week later we're debating whether Adam Sandler's tactility is a problem or not...
FFS
