Jeremy Corbyn

Perhaps because they need them

And to be fair to them, no other nation in Europe has as much experience in transporting and processing large numbers of ethnic minorities in a short period of time.

poor taste ninfan

thats what they said about the soap 😉 (too soon?)

And to be fair to them, no other nation in Europe has as much experience in transporting and processing large numbers of ethnic minorities in a short period of time.

Although to be fair, the British did a great job in earlier centuries, shipping humans to the "West Indies" for some new work opportunities...

In [url= https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Shock_of_the_Old ]Shock of the Old[/url] the author argues (in a rather grim chapter) that they weren't that efficient.

mefty - Member
...The Tories would have had lines of attack against all of them, but there is no doubt Corbyn is the easiest. His extraordinary unwillingness to seek some sort of modus vivendi with the media is only going to make it easier.

It may be his strength. The more the media attack, the stronger his support will become.

What is being forgotten is that the MSM is thoroughly discredited now. With the ability to quickly fact check using the internet, lies quickly get exposed and the liar broadcast on social media.

For example in Scotland, many of the Labour MPs were claiming to have stood up against austerity. What happened was one or two individuals checked the voting records, spread the word, and soon the whole of Scotland knew how their MP actually voted. Barefaced political lying is getting much more difficult. (Ask Alistair Carmichael 🙂 )

The Yuppies are finally on the run.

I don't think social media is as important as you make out. The Tory support held up in Scotland, yet in England it is that support that has to move to Labour for them to win.

Plus not many old people get their news from Twitter or Facebook.

The Tory support held up in Scotland

Just when you thought it couldn't get any lower Tory support in Scotland fell last general election to what must be its lowest level ever - less than 15%.

In the 1950s the Tories were polling more in Scotland than anywhere else in the UK - over 50%
About the same as the SNP receive now in Scotland.

The SNP had a pretty substantial press operation - they certainly didn't ignore the MSM.

What is being forgotten is that the MSM is thoroughly discredited now. With the ability to quickly fact check using the internet, lies quickly get exposed and the liar broadcast on social media.

Aye right

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2015/09/16/jeremy-corbyn-refuses-to-say-if-he-will-sing-national-anthem-in-future_n_8144668.html?utm_hp_ref=uk

I take it back.

The man's a weasel. Caves in at the first bit of pressure. A disaster (if you care about it) for the Labour Party and a risible joke in the rest of the country.

Aye right

On the odd occasion I bother to get into an argument on Facebook there does seem to be a generational split.

"The dad's" (say anyone over 35) will post something from the Mail, which will then be immediately countered by "the yoof" (say anyone under 30) with a neat info-graphic showing how it was at best a heavily twisted truth.

I suppose the Huff Post qualifies? 🙄

[url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-34267755 ]Shadow Front Bench disagreement already?[/url]

I'm looking for an opposition that can do it's own thinking and has a clear strategy and direction, getting phone-in style questions is none of those.

The Tory support held up in Scotland

There's ways they can do this- he can easily carry off "personally, I wouldn't sing it but I can see that some people expect it of the leader of the party and so I am prepared to do so for their sake, even if I think it's a bag o shite. I don't think it's a big deal but apparently some folks do, no idea why, but we've already wasted too much time on it", it'd be a sensible option. But if they fluff their way through it and he looks like he's just folded, that's bad.

I think he should sing the words to Angels by Robbie Williams over the top of it.

Corbyn doesn't sing national anthem = burn him
Wiggins doesn't sign national anthem = Hero, rising against the regime

@ NW Alos dont get the reaction. Personally I am not into god or the queen why would I ask the thing that does not exist to help the thing i dont support reign over me. FWIW he is better than me as he was standing.

If that upsets folks then may I be the first to welcome them to freedom of choice.

No I'm looking for an opposition that can do it's own thinking and has a clear strategy and direction

Hah.. if Corbyn is anything, it's exactly that. You might not agree with his thinking, but it's very clear and definitely his own.

He may well not succeed due to the games politicans play, but we can hope.

But if they fluff their way through it and he looks like he's just folded, that's bad.

I think they've played it well. As I said earlier, whether he sung "God Save The Queen" or not he would have been criticized.

It was never claimed that he refused to sing it on a point of principle, the claim was made that he simply stood in 'respectful silence'.

Therefore by now announcing that he will sing the anthem in the future he is not reversing a point of principle and it will make any "Comrade Corbyn Sings 'God Save The Queen'" newspaper headline appear to be petty and negative - they can't have it both ways, the public won't let them.

Bearing in mind that he would have been criticized for singing God Save The Queen and criticized for not singing it I think it's been well played as any further comment on the issue by the Tory press just makes look like the hypocrites that they are.

molgrips I was talking about the Labour party not Corbyn, they are two separate entities. See that BBC link up there oldbloke posted currently different bits of the Labour party are saying different things. It is clear Corbyn hasn't outlined his vision and strategy to the Labour party and got buy in yet.

Your full quote though i have emboldended what Molly [ and others] quoted

[b]No I'm looking for an opposition that can do it's own thinking and has a clear strategy and direction[/b], getting phone-in style questions is none of those. Corbyn has known for weeks he'd win, yet now he is leader seems to not know what his policy or direction is. At present he is letting others define it such as Tom Watson on EU and Trident or his PR team saying he will sing the national anthem from now on. Reminds me of Yes Prime Minister.

newspaper headline appear to be petty and negative - they can't have it both ways, the public won't let them

There's enough internal conflict to resolve within Labour at present that the press doesn't need to resort to underhand tactics (yet, anyway).

There's ways they can do this- he can easily carry off "personally, I wouldn't sing it but I can see that some people expect it of the leader of the party and so I am prepared to do so for their sake, even if I think it's a bag o shite. I don't think it's a big deal but apparently some folks do, no idea why, but we've already wasted too much time on it", it'd be a sensible option. But if they fluff their way through it and he looks like he's just folded, that's bad.

Spot on - it gets even worse when you see him trying to hedge round the issue and not answer the question (which his 'straight answer' approach was repeatedly pointed to as a breath of fresh air by his supporters)

only to then a few hours later release a statement that he would sing it after all

the public gets what the public wants/if we will put our leaders under this much scrutiny, whatever the hue or party, they will all end up acting like this
We want people of principle then when we get them we get upset about it so they try to be all things to all people

Dave pretends to care [ or like football] and Corbyn pretends to like the Queen
Our expectations need to change of we expect them to act differently

I don't think he has released a statement saying he will sing it, the Labour party PR machine did.

who gives a flying ****?
I mean really?

only to then a few hours later release a statement that he would sing it after all

You obviously think there's a problem with that Z-11, I don't. In the video he defends his decision to stand in 'respectful silence' during the Battle of Britain ceremony but doesn't claim that it will be appropriate in all future event when the national anthem is played. Perfectly reasonable imo.

Doesn't it sum it all up when when ranting right-wingers create a song and dance about singing God Save The Queen in the desperate hope that it will distract attention away from real issues ?

Deviation has always been your favourite tactic Z-11.

the desperate hope that it will distract attention away from real issues ?

Like tax credits & Union laws?

As I said earlier - all the more reason why resorting to feel-good left wing protest politics rather than a cold, hard focus on winning elections is so damaging

Corbyn & his shadow cabinet members are becoming the story - one of the most fatal mistakes in politics.

RW liek you and dragon are certainly trying your best to make this happen

Come the revolution, eh brother?

[img] [/img]

rather than a cold, hard focus on winning elections

Erm, Corbyn and his team have just won an election. He won 50% more votes than all his opponents put together. He won 40% more votes than his nearest rival. He won more votes than there are Tory Party members in the UK.

And this was in an election which they said he stood no chance at all of winning.

Exactly the same people are now saying that he stands no chance at all of winning the general election in 5 years.

We'll see.

But I can't see any evidence at all that the man who has caused a political earthquake and has received the largest mandate ever of any Labour Party leader isn't interested in "a cold hard focus on winning elections"

Perhaps we should start a new thread to give Jeremy some questions for next week?

This ones from Sadiq, currently on the Hungarian border -[i]"When do the buses arrive and where are my benefits?"[/i]

Vladimir of Moscow writes in suggesting [i]"wouldn't it be a jolly good idea to get rid of all those nasty nuclear weapons?"[/i]

Maybe Arthur from Barnsley will write in, wanting to know when he will get his OAP's bucket of coal?

I imagine he will probably not be asking the ones from Daily Mail readers

Perhaps we should start a new thread to give Jeremy some questions for next week?

This ones from Sadiq, currently on the Hungarian border -"When do the buses arrive and where are my benefits?"

Vladimir of Moscow writes in suggesting "wouldn't it be a jolly good idea to get rid of all those nasty nuclear weapons?"

Maybe Arthur from Barnsley will write in, wanting to know when he will get his OAP's bucket of coal?

You are Richard Littlejohn and I claim the froth for the corners of my mouth.

[img] [/img]

Well the last few days have been eye-opening. It would appear that Corbyn's greatest enemies are not going to be the tories, but the media, and not just the tory leaning lot. It's not a surprise, but even so it's disappointing to see the likes of the BBC and the guardian falling over themselves to highlight and gossip over trivial and unimportant issues. He's not playing the game he's supposed to in a 24 hour news cycle. Apparently he has no media 'strategy', which I read to mean he doesn't give priority access to hacks for little snippets of info about what he's up to or going to say. Does he not realise that it's his job to fill the airwaves and newspapers with reams of pointless 'analysis' about bugger all?

[i]Doesn't it sum it all up when when ranting right-wingers create a song and dance about singing God Save The Queen in the desperate hope that it will distract attention away from real issues ?[/i]

Come on Ernie, you can do better than that!

Jezza would have been relieved that the attention was on the anthem - just think it could have been on the shifting Labour tectonics re Europe and Trident. Deputy briefs against him on day 1 and the EU grumblings are sounding at least as indigestible as the Tory version.

Thank goodness that the rabid papers will concentrate on singing and badly fitting suits (did today's one come from Prescott's 70s retro collection?). Bloody biased LW media 😉

Ernie- he entered thinking that he had no chance of winning so don't blame the others!

you have to hand it to old Jezza though - despite the very retro look - he/his advisors know how to tune into social media plus the crowdsourcing stunt today. Novel stuff. Now he just needs advice on the mainstream media before they engulf him.

just think it could have been on the shifting Labour tectonics re Europe and Trident. Deputy briefs against him on day 1 and the EU grumblings are sounding at least as indigestible as the Tory version.

I'm not sure if this would particular disturb him. He'd be pretty daft to not expect dissent given both his history and the method of his rise to leadership. Maybe the media know this and don't see it as news. 'Labour MPs Disagree with Corbyn' isn't exactly a headline that's going to sell newspapers is it?

Ernie- he entered thinking that he had no chance of winning so don't blame the others!

What am I blaming anyone for ?

I also said that he stood no chance at all of winning when he first threw his hat in the ring.

I am not making any prediction for the 2020 general election, although some people are, firm predictions at that.

I said......"we'll see".

SOH....SOH

True Daz - the shaky foundations are well known and hardly a headline!

Still we get the media and the politicians we deserve (except the poor Scots who deserve much, much better 😉 )

I so hope this is true:
[img] ?oh=54eaadc6832369e72707bd4e7f1937c7&oe=5662B6C6[/img]

^^ I like 🙂

If, as looks possible, Corbyn got in like Milliband did, without the support of his MPs because the voting system was gamed (Milliband using the Union vote, Corbyn by either the same or Tories trying to sabotage Labour) then expect chaos rather than a decent opposition at a time when we really, really need proper questions being asked of government policy.

Reading serious financial press e.g. FT, Economist + speaking to people I know working in the City and we are so not out of the 2008 mess - if anything the underlying problems are worse and debt levels are so much greater, and the 'slow and steady recovery' narrative being spun by the Tories is balderdash and otherwise known as 'jacked up house prices cos you think that makes you rich'

This narrative needs challenging, properly. If Corbyn's in without the support of his MPs then Labour will just spend the next couple of years in an internal mess trying to oust him instead of doing their job of being a proper opposition

brooess - Member

If, as looks possible, Corbyn got in like Milliband did, without the support of his MPs because the voting system was gamed (Milliband using the Union vote, Corbyn by either the same or Tories trying to sabotage Labour) then expect chaos rather than a decent opposition at a time when we really, really need proper questions being asked of government policy.

Dude... There's no gaming here, no question of entryism or Tory sabotage or Teh Unions, just look at the vote share. Literally every part of the voter base chose him, overwhelmingly. Members, union affiliates, £3 voters. Support of MPs is a different issue but they never get to choose the leader.