Jeremy Corbyn

Just read this article by Rafeal Behr in the Grauniad

[url= https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/aug/24/labour-complains-tories-govern ]While labour complains, the Tories simply govern.[/url]

Its the most concise appraisal yet of the difference in view between the evangelical Corbynites and your average voter, and perfectly sumarises why he hasn't a hope of winning a general election.

[i]To pack a venue with hundreds of people chanting in unison, declaring their allegiance on T-shirts, is an achievement matched by non-league football clubs that never win trophies and indie bands that never top the charts. It is politics as a serious hobby, leaving serious politics to the professionals.

The Tories understand this.[/i]
[i]
A historic failure of Labour has been the inability to challenge an unspoken cultural presumption – internalised even by many of the party’s supporters – that Tory rule is Britain’s default setting, interrupted only by episodes of leftward correction. Tony Blair unsettled that view, then his party disowned the achievement. May is now the happy beneficiary of a return to the traditional roles: Tories govern; Labour complains. [/i]

I'd be interested to hear your thoughts no that comrade?

No, not extreme left - just normal left

That is fine, he is well within his rights to be, but you can't expect anyone to win an election with views on the extremes of the countries political spectrum.

Edit, good article Binners.

but right now, in today's UK political landscape he is extreme

I still disagree with even that, tbh.

Ah, Corbyn now admits the train wasn't "full" but that he wanted "two empty seats together"

Well, we'd all like that, wouldn't we snowflake 😆

I still disagree with even that, tbh.

Out of interest, who else is further left?

Extreme ? Not sure, hard left by today's standards definitely. Europe's most left leaning government after Greece has just announced tax cuts for small business to try and boost employment. Corbyn has many views / "policies" not seen anywhere in European Government aside from Greece :- NATO, Trident/Nuclear weapons, Armed Police, Nationalisation (not really possible in the EU anyway), Middle East

Ah, Corbyn now admits the train wasn't "full" but that he wanted "two empty seats together"

Well, we'd all like that, wouldn't we snowflake

😀

Reserve two seats together then you muppett. All Corbyn and his cronies wanted to do was make a film.

I am a difficult so and so but if it where me I would have sued him for liable misrepresenting my business. Made him climb down formally with a grovelling public apology, and a travel ban too.

Ah, Corbyn now admits the train wasn't "full" but that he wanted "two empty seats together"

Well, we'd all like that, wouldn't we snowflake - if only someone invented a system where you could book ahead !

Also: its considerably more expensive if you just rock up instead of booking in advance. Where does that fit with the 'man of the people' schtick? Just looks like he was deliberately trying to make a point. But like everything else he does, did it it spectacularly incompetently and ended up shooting himself in the foot, and looking like a political amateur

Has binners ever liked a politician, ever?

Apart from odd balls who does? Most people vote for the least bad option, not one they like.

Funny Jambs you say that I'd been thinking he was luck not to have Virgin going after him legally.

Also oddly if he wanted to make a film about full trains a quick ask would have thrown up daily rammed commuter trains up and down the country, he could have taken his pick. Mind most wouldn't have had space for him to sit on the floor and be filmed.

Also: its considerably more expensive if you just rock up instead of booking in advance. Where does that fit with the 'man of the people' schtick?

Sometimes you don't know when you want to travel in advance. I don't always.

Sometimes you don't know when you want to travel in advance. I don't always.

I laughed when I heard the Virgin rebuttal had suggested he book in advance. I suppose the leader of the opposition knows exactly when he needs to travel months in advance. "Sorry Mrs May, I'm going to have to leave this meeting early, my train ticket's for a specific train and non-refundable."

Imagine if he'd sat in someone elses reserved seat!!!

Imagine if he'd sat in someone elses reserved seat!!!

His predecessor as leader did that right in front of me at Lords the other day!

Just looks like he was deliberately trying to make a point. But like everything else he does, did it it spectacularly incompetently and ended up shooting himself in the foot, and looking like a political amateur

This.

Defending JC's actions is incomprehensible.

Sometimes you don't know when you want to travel in advance. I don't always.

The hustings in Gateshead was published ten days in advance:

http://labourlist.org/2016/08/labour-leadership-hustings-dates-and-times/

Given that he was one of the two people whose attendance was pretty vital, you would have to assume that he checked his diary before agreeing to it

Just looks like he was deliberately trying to make a point. But like everything else he does, did it it spectacularly incompetently and ended up shooting himself in the foot, and looking like a political amateur

This is true of most "leading" politicians when they try the "Average Man/Woman on the Street" gag, it never works, because they aren't, generally. They're either genuinely that awkward (see bacon or Pasties) or they've been in the rarefied atmosphere of politics so long it looks as false as it is.

Does he know who Ant & Dec are yet?

You can't arrange yourself a seat on a train for a journey you knew about weeks in advance? And you want to run the countries economy?

Or you were just intending to pull a cheap political stunt of the type you've been so loftily disdainful of?

What would your ideal candidate be like, binners? Seriously? What would his/her policies be?

I blame Fatcha!

Ah, Corbyn now admits the train wasn't "full" but that he wanted "two empty seats together"

Well, we'd all like that, wouldn't we snowflake

What a flake!

Pathetic.

Any comments from the comrades?

Well I'm a Tory apparently Molls, (or traitorous scum) so ask Theresa whether she's got any policies yet?

Actually...Blair without the craven American Bomby stuff, the unquestioning indulgence of the shysters in The City, and...well... Blair, and his messiah complex.

I think its pathetic that everything else other than Iraq is glossed over by the left as they re-write Jeremy's fairy-tale history. Those labour administrations were genuinely progressive and did a lot of good. Achieved a lot more than Jeremy has in his 30 years shouting from the back-benches. But you're not allowed to say that. You have to shout 'WAR CRIMINAL' from the common room, and leave your political analysis at that

Sometimes you don't know when you want to travel in advance. I don't always.

and those trains are priced so you'd have to be pretty desperate to book last minute.

And considering the number of their party they could have hired a people carrier and drove up for les than the tickets.

Or maybe even a taxi.

Wouldn't have made such good movie material though.

Actually...Blair without the craven American Bomby stuff, the unquestioning indulgence of the shysters in The City, and...well... Blair, and his messiah complex.

Having had the "pleasure" of working for a state controlled bank for 9 months I can safely say politicians and banks are the absolute worst combination.

Well, given that you still have a bank to work at, and wouldn't have if you'd not been bailed out by the taxpayer, it seems fairly obvious to me that the worst combination is still better for you than the government not stepping in at all.

I think its pathetic that everything else other than Iraq is glossed over by the left as they re-write Jeremy's fairy-tale history. Those labour administrations were genuinely progressive and did a lot of good

Is the minimum wage, Scottish devolution and the independence of the Bank of England more or less important than the killing of 100s of thousands of innocent people, hundreds of british servicemen, and the destabilisation of an entire region resulting in widespread terrorism, the destruction of entire countries, and the displacement of millions of refugees? I don't really think anything Blair's administration did can even come close to compensating for Iraq. Blair always said history would be his judge, so it must be comforting for him to see his legacy being so quickly forgotten.

I think its pathetic that everything else other than Iraq is glossed over by the left

I agree. As I've been saying all along, we need to have a proper debate about what policies we want - not just scream and shout, which is what everyone does and it ruins the whole process.

I don't really think anything Blair's administration did can even come close to compensating for Iraq.

Yet you lot all voted for him again...

Nobody is endorsing it Daz. Or putting it in a league table.

But to refuse to acknowledge any other policy, and accept any other more nuanced view is just juvenile. What do you think the country would have looked like after 13 more years of the Tories?

Well... looks like we're about to find out

Yet you lot all voted for him again...

Not me. I didn't vote labour again until the last election.

I don't really think anything Blair's administration did can even come close to compensating for Iraq.

This isn't about exonerating Blair, it's about policies that we like, and would like to see continued under a new government headed by someone else.

Corbyn has many views / "policies" not seen anywhere in European Government aside from Greece :- NATO, Trident/Nuclear weapons, Armed Police, Nationalisation (not really possible in the EU anyway), Middle East

This'll be like shooting fish in a barrel...

1) NATO: Austria, Sweden, Finland, Ireland, Malta and Cyprus are all in the EU but are not members of NATO
2) Nukes: Aside from the UK, only France has nuclear weapons in the EU
3) Armed police: Try talking about "shoot to kill" with Jean Charles de Menezes' family...
4) Nationalisation: France, Germany, Italy, Spain and Ireland have nationalised railways. France has a nationalised energy company
5) I think all European countries want peace and justice in the middle east

Nobody is endorsing it Daz. Or putting it in a league table.

Not saying anyone is endorsing it (although Hilary Benn is doing a bloody good job of showing that the labour right is back on message with the militarists), but you shouldn't underestimate just how many labour supporters are still scarred by it. I know many people who still won't even consider voting labour because of Iraq, even under Corbyn.

What do you think the country would have looked like after 13 more years of the Tories?

Broadly similar to what it does now. Tories wearing red ties are still Tories.

Broadly similar to what it does now. Tories wearing red ties are still Tories.

And its precisely that type of dismissive, mindless, reactionary, student common room, lefty cobblers that have led the labour party to its present shambolic, totally unelectable state. As a silly, shouty, juvenile little protest group, waving its placards and chanting its slogans from the political wilderness.

And until the more left leaning members of the labour party ****ing grow up, stop being so bloody stupid and acknowledge how ridiculous statements like that are, then they won't get so much as a sniff at a general election

What do you think the country would have looked like after 13 more years of the Tories?

it's about policies that we like, and would like to see continued under a new government headed by someone else.

Indeed. I'm generally of the opinion that people are a lot more radical than politicians and the media will admit. A party with genuinely radical (that doesn't mean extreme), innovative policies which address obvious problems would do very well I think. Policies like:

- Making the rich and corporations pay their tax (all of it)
- Universal basic income
- A nationwide integrated public transport system with affordable fares
- Real affordable housing both to buy and rent.
- Legalisation/decriminalisation of drugs (we're ready now I think)
- Free higher/post-school education or training

I don't even think Corbyn is suggesting half of those above. Quite frankly I (and I think many others) would vote for any party which implemented just one or two of them.

edit: *awaits flaming by everyone as some nutcase ideologue*

is it public services paid for by PPI, a messy middle eastern war with a terrible "peace" and shed load of academy schools?

A government able to organise a [s]seat on a train[/s] pissup in a brewery would be nice though.

In the last 4 general elections I have voted for Labour, Lib Dem and Tory (and yes, one of them twice).

I voted for Blair as I felt he was a good balance between left and right and had policies that both sides could embrace. Because of that, he got into power and stayed there. No Labour leader since then has come close to making me vote for them.

Yes, Blairs legacy should rightly be the war/Middle East problems. But, as Binners says, he got into power by making large swaths of people think Labour were a viable option to run the country. Corbyn can't do this. If Labour want to be in power again they could do worse then steal some of Blair's policies.

I find it staggering how delusional some on the left are. Saying that the Labour Party under Blair was just the same as the Tory party is absolutely ridiculous. And if you can seriously be maintaining that, (as those around The Glorious Leader, and his mindless acolytes seem to be), then you can't expect many people to dignify your opinions with the remotest shred of credibility.

It is genuinely a laughable, sub-6th form common room level of political analysis

And its precisely that type of dismissive, mindless, reactionary, student common room, lefty cobblers that have led the labour party to its present shambolic, totally unelectable state. As a silly, shouty, juvenile little protest group, waving its placards and chanting its slogans from the political wilderness.

And until the more left leaning members of the labour party ****ing grow up, stop being so bloody stupid and acknowledge how ridiculous statements like that are, then they won't get so much as a sniff at a general election

Look chum, it's you who's been the shouty one. I made a simple remark that has more than just a little fact to back it up.

And as for growing up, how about accepting a mandate that 65% of your party membership voted for the current leader as their first preference and concentrating on being the opposition to the government, rather than the opposition to themselves? Also, holding the government to account for possibly the most damaging domestic decision made in recent times, rather than using it as an excuse for a childish coup that if they'd read their own party rule book they would have known had no chance of success.

If Corbyn's only success is to drag the centre of British politics back somewhere towards the left of Thatcher, even from opposition, then that's still a better outcome than him never having bothered and some red Tory cardboard cut-out pretending not to be Tory while governing on a manifesto based mainly on Tory policy.

I find it staggering how delusional some on the left are.

Given you're allegedly a Labour man, I think you demonstrate the delusion of some on the left perfectly. Just toddle off and join the Tories - you appear to be one - you just appear delusional that neoliberalism is a policy of the left.

how about accepting a mandate that 65% of your party membership voted

It is genuinely a laughable, sub-6th form common room level of political analysis

Its not really ludicrous to say tony was not very labour/left wing and was a bit tory/rw centrist. I assume all but the most fervently polemic would see this.

Jeremy's description of what happened:

"But, let's get to the details of it. Yes I did walk through the train. Yes I did look for two empty seats together so I could sit down with my wife to talk to her.

"That wasn't possible and so I went to the end of the train. The train manager, who was a very nice gentleman, came along and we had a very nice chat about the problems of overcrowding... he then very kindly did find some seats and after 42 minutes I went back through the train to the seats he had allocated."

Must've forgotten the bit where he sat down on the floor and talked bollocks.