Jeremy Corbyn

A start would be stop looking at what the party membership wants

start looking what the rest of the country wants.

[i]Just toddle off and join the Tories[/i]

That seems to be the attitude of all the Corbynites to anyone who disagrees with the Glorious Leader. Without stopping to think that once you've told everyone to **** off and join the Tories, there's nobody actually left to vote for you.

A slight hitch in the masterplan

500,000 delusional lefties waving placards with their cult leader on aren't going to win a general election I'm afraid

I find it staggering how delusional some on the left are.

Delusions are in no way limited to the left!

It is genuinely a laughable, sub-6th form common room level of political analysis

With all respect due I don't think it's helpful to keep referring to criticisms of Labour's very real Tory-centric shift of those years as 6th form analysis.

start looking what the rest of the country wants.
So they need to become tories then?

Shouldn't think so. The rest of the voting public aren't "tories"

They're just, for the most part, not likely to vote for a bunch of clowns...

So they need to become tories then?

You've got 7 million people who voted Lib Dem in 2010. I suspect a chunk of those don't want to vote Tory but sure as hell won't vote Labour in its current form. How about you target those?

With all respect due I don't think it's helpful to keep referring to criticisms of Labour's very real Tory-centric shift of those years as 6th form analysis.

Nail. Head. Hit. Hammer. The. On.

Binners: you don't like Corbyn. Fine, we get it.

Now, which of these two outcomes do you think would have been better:

1) The parliamentary party learns to deal with its unexpected new leader, but does so in good grace for the immediate good not only of the party but for the country as a whole and allows him to propose his own policies while providing staunch opposition to the government, or;

2) Large portions of the parliamentary party constantly and actively foster disunity to try to undermine a leader they know has a powerful mandate from the people who select their leader, and decide that a guaranteed to fail coup is a better option than sticking it to what appeared to be a mortally wounded Tory party after the referendum?

One might just have resulted in a Labour government a few years from now, and if not, it would have had a strong effect on redefining the centre somewhere more towards the um, centre. The other has resulted in zero opposition, a whole load of navel gazing, and the apparently accurate impression that the Labour party is an absolute shambles

If I was leader of the opposition I would hope my PA would have a copy of my diary, would have booked my tickets in advance and made sure I had reserved seats. If a PA can't manage that then there is a question mark regarding his/her ability. Personally I would have far more faith in a leader of this country paying the extra and sitting in first class than choosing to sit on the floor!

Why don't the green target them then or UKIP or the BNP?

Its almost like parties have principles[good bad, woful, repellent whatever], they stand on a platform and the electorate decide

So many of you think the goal is JUST to win and you do whatever is required to win. No wonder you admire tony so much 😉

I get why you argue this I dont understand why you dont get the alternative view/approach.
The reality is it requires both an alternative to the tories and the mass appeal as those disillusioned with politics are not rushing out i their droves to vote for not quite Tory and those not voting wont turn out in enough numbers to win an election [ probably]

Zokes nails it with his 6th form analysis

it only lacked the intellectual rigour of Binners mature name calling to earn a like from me

sticking it to what appeared to be a mortally wounded Tory party after the referendum?

Mortally wounded? Sorry fella, but you really are delusional. They had their internal squabbles done and dusted in a matter of days, with typical ruthless businesslike efficiency, and are right now drawing up their agenda for the next 4 years of totally unopposed rule

No, but they need to appeal to people who may once have voted Tory and perhaps are looking for another option.

Or they could appeal to the 34% of the population that didn't bother to vote, possibly because they're fed up with tories wearing blue, red or yellow ties. They could also appeal to the 4 million who voted for UKIP through a demonstration that there is another way - Labour has lost a lot of its vote in the last NuLab years to UKIP. They could appeal to the 1 million who voted Green by taking on some of their more socially progressive policies while also providing a realistic chance of them actually being made law.

FWIW, I voted LibDem in 2010 and voted Labour in 2015. Had there been a Green candidate I would have voted for them in 2015. If there was a Greens candidate in 2020 but Labour have managed to throw off their NuLab dalliance with the neoliberal status quo, I'd vote Labour. If Corbyn hadn't happened, I can't imagine me voting Labour except as a least worst option.

I get why you argue this I dont understand why you dont get the alternative view/approach.

Because they secretly want to live in a one-party state under the cloak of 'democracy'? The Chinese must think all this is hilarious. To think we go round the world telling everyone how great democracy is, and even start wars to force it on people who don't want it, and yet we don't seem to understand it ourselves, and make a complete pigs ear of implementing it.

They had their internal squabbles done and dusted in a matter of days, with typical ruthless businesslike efficiency, and are right now drawing up their agenda for the next 4 years of totally unopposed rule

And why did they get away with it? Could it have been because the self-obsessed PLP decided that rather than shoot at an open opposition goal, they chose to take out their own keeper with a two-footed sliding tackle, then fail to even score in their own net?

Or are you saying that even with your Messiah, Blair, at the helm of the PLP the Tories would have been able to dust themselves off just as quickly? Because you seem to be conceding that the Tories would have sorted themselves out regardless of whether the opposition was pursuing them effectively or not.

3) Work towards effectively removing a leader who clearly can't lead, manage or seeming do anything useful. While continuing to represent the constituencies that elected them as Labour MPs under the manifesto.

When your own MPs who have a wide spectrum of backgrounds, personalities and views are almost to a man against you, then the only common theme is you.

I don't think Corbyn advocating triggering article 50 straight away, did his own or his party any help with credibility. That was an own goal right there, the PLP's ineffectual bungling then just the compounded it.

We are where we are. Whats absolutely certain is that you'd have been able to hear the laughter echoing round Downing Street at the bearded messiahs latest PR suicide attempt, and a little moment of delight at the thought that that is the 'opposition' she'll be facing for the next 4 years.

She's just been handed a free pass to do what she bloody well likes.

No doubt the bearded ones poll ratings will continue in freefall after this latest farce, with all but the cult members in the bunker, who will, somewhat inexplicably, take this as further proof of how great he is!

Labour's very real Tory-centric shift

Corbyn was always on the left of Labour, even in the eighties

In fact he was so far to the left of the Labour party that the Tories used him as an example of the hard left in a 1987 advert:

[img] [/img]

So, are you staying that Corbyn has moved to the right as well? Or is he still the hard left loony Labour **** that he was back then?

Or they could appeal to the 34% of the population that didn't bother to vote

Well Corbyn tried to unseat Kinnock as the party wasn't left enough under Kinnock's leadership.

Fact Corbyn wants to re-open the mines makes you wonder what decade he is living in.

Lib Dems be trolling like
[img] ?w=620&h=463&crop=1[/img]

binners - Member
Just toddle off and join the Tories

That seems to be the attitude of all the Corbynites to anyone who disagrees with the Glorious Leader.

Obviously, that is how cuckoos work. Take over the nest and kick the incumbents out.

When can we get past ideology and back to the crux of the issue - competence?

binners - Member

"Just toddle off and join the Tories"

That seems to be the attitude of all the Corbynites to anyone who disagrees with the Glorious Leader. Without stopping to think that once you've told everyone to **** off and join the Tories, there's nobody actually left to vote for you.

There you go again with your ridiculous pretense that you are a typical voter. You are no more a typical voter than I am binners. I meet "typical voters" all the time I never hear anyone rant about the Left the way you do.

If I heard someone ranting about the Left the way you do I would assume that they were a member of the Tory Party, or the BNP, or the English Democrats, or some other right-wing party (although TBH I think your anti-Left rants are a bit too extreme for the Tory Party).

It is not the job of the Labour Party to attempt to attract people like you who despise the Left. What do you think the Tory Party is there for?

Th Corbyn quote of the day below, which begs the question whether threatening companies is now Labour policy?

I do by the way look forward to meeting Virgin Trains to discuss these issues because I do think that there are – even before we take them back into public ownership - regulatory issues that need to be discussed and I’m very happy to do that.

And Virgin Trains have been in touch, I’m happy to meet them. We don’t have closed door or closed minds.”

1) The parliamentary party learns to deal with its unexpected new leader, but does so in good grace for the immediate good not only of the party but for the country as a whole and allows him to propose his own policies while providing staunch opposition to the government,

Some tried. Have you read the accounts of ex-shadow cab members? Are they all lying? Really? What if they're telling the truth and he's not up to the job? Is that a possibility?

Binners - time for a check

1. Are you a typical voter - if no, stop posting and go away, if yes proceed
2. Are you a real person - if no, stop posting and go away, if yes procees
3. Are you prepared to give unwavering support to cult led by someone not fit-for-purpose - if no, go back to (1), if yes proceed

You are free to keep commenting, but you are being monitored closely, so watch it....

Some tried. Have you read the accounts of ex-shadow cab members? Are they all lying? Really? What if they're telling the truth and he's not up to the job? Is that a possibility?

John, we stopped being serious on page 15. But nice point.

Binners - time for a check

1. Are you a typical voter - if no, stop posting and go away, if yes proceed
2. Are you a real person - if no, stop posting and go away, if yes procees
3. Are you prepared to give unwavering support to cult led by someone not fit-for-purpose - if no, go back to (1), if yes proceed

You are free to keep commenting, but you are being monitored closely, so watch it....

All irrelevant, I'm afraid. He went to a posh school, almost Eton, so he's clearly traitorous nazi scum. Etc.

If Wykehamists are in the middle of the nest, surely there's room for binners?

Anyway, to the cultist telling pragmatists to bog off, we may lose the vote, and the result may deal this party a grave blow. It may not be possible to prevent it, but there are some of us, I think many of us, who will not accept that this blow need be mortal: who will not believe that such an end is inevitable. There are some of us who will fight, and fight, and fight again, to save the party we love. We will fight, and fight, and fight again, to bring back sanity and honesty and dignity, so that our party – with its great past – may retain its glory and its greatness.

I think if I was sitting alone at a table & 4 seats on a train and Corbyn and his crew came looking for a seat I think my answer might be "Sorry mate, somebody's sitting here".

😀

Anyway, to the cultist telling pragmatists to bog off, we may lose the vote, and the result may deal this party a grave blow. It may not be possible to prevent it, but there are some of us, I think many of us, who will not accept that this blow need be mortal: who will not believe that such an end is inevitable. There are some of us who will fight, and fight, and fight again, to save the party we love. We will fight, and fight, and fight again, to bring back sanity and honesty and dignity, so that our party – with its great past – may retain its glory and its greatness.

CaptainFlashheart - Member

He went to a posh school, almost Eton

You could be onto something there Flashheart. Our working-class hero's hatred of the Left is only matched by his hatred of the middle-classes. On this thread :

binners - Member

It's no wonder they've come out against Corbyn. He's as terrifying and alien to them as someone northern, working class, or scottish. They like to stay in their nice, comfortable, upper middle class, bollocks-talking, London-centric metropolitan bubble

binners - Member

Because they're awful middle class lefties, who will stand by and moan about equal rights for one-armed, free range, organic hermaphrodite marriage, while the Tory party take a torch to workers rights
They are the very worst human beings on the planet

Perhaps this deep hatred for what he is himself causes an inner turmoil for which the only release is unrestrained ranting and rage ?

@5thElement - not milibd. Bit earlier.

Perhaps like lots of typical Labour Party voters he is dismayed at how things have turned out with Jezza in charge (or not in charge, to be more precise)

Wild shot I know......

@5thElement - not milibd. Bit earlier

@5thElement - not milibd. Bit earlier.

Indeed - best PM we never had?

edit:

Never heard of that fella.

:shocked:

Though I suppose this wider lack of knowledge of LP history (that people like me who grew up with shop steward for a dad maybe take for granted) may reveal why Corbyn has such a following amongst the Yoof.

Fantastic blast from the past here:

Dear Nicola must be counting her lucky stars - all this Corbyn nonsense means she escapes too much focus on the GERS data. She is one lucky lady.....

3) Work towards effectively removing a leader

That went well, didn't it. Unfortunately your 3) would always result in my 2).

Anyway Binners, what policies would you like to see from the Labour party?

What policies of Corbyn's don't you like?

What makes you think wassisface who's challenging Corbyn is more electable?

Do you not think the drop in polls is at least in part due to the PLP's narcissistic and myopic infighting?

If Corbyn wins, and it's likely he will, will you then want the PLP to in good faith rally behind the leader who would then have been democratically elected twice, or would you prefer the infighting continue until the Lib Dems are more popular than Labour?

Competency, zokes, competency - stay focused on the issue at hand. He will compromise on policies like they all do - so focus on the things that matter - is he up to the job?

in good faith rally behind the leader

Yep, rallying behind the leader, that's the Corbyn way!

is he up to the job?

If that's the bar then I think we'd better hand the reigns back to good Queen Bess...

There are some of us who will fight, and fight, and fight again, to save the party we love. We will fight, and fight, and fight again, to bring back sanity and honesty and dignity, so that our party – with its great past – may retain its glory and its greatness.

Shall we take that as an "obviously not"?