Jeremy Corbyn

teamhurtmore - Member
Chris Giles piece in the FT today

Do you feel if you mention the FT every 4 posts it adds more or less weight to your arguments? 😆

The FT can be a pretty good source of news, yet somehow I arrive at completely different conclusions to THM 😀

You could create an online generator to write THM's posts:

Reference to an FT article
Reference to the SNP and how awful they are
Condescending comment about how misguided everyone else is except him
Economics jargon used in a deliberately unclear way
Comment about how the Tories aren't really right wing at all (which he understands but no-one else does)
Pepper in a few names of people/references to articles you haven't bothered to identify, and a few nonsensical 'jokes' and there you have it.

I'm sure he and his cheerleader allthepies would love to claim it's because we're all too thick to get it, but I've read books by actual economists and i could understand them just fine.

Here's a key concept for you THM: writing/language is about communicating ideas. You're a very bad communicator judging by your posts on here. You'd get very poor marks for your standard of writing/argument in an academic context, which is ironic as I believe you work in education?

Any chance of an on-topic post grum?

"All too thick" - where has that been mentioned? That's quite some complex....

No Joe, but if people are asking what you are talking about, it's only fair to be clear ie the article in the FT. But to be fair, it is the first thing I read in the morning. I like it for the variety of comments and commentators. You got lots of different perspectives - quite refreshing as opposed to the hard-fixed perspectives elsewhere.

Grum (hint) re your Tories aren't RW point. You will notice the recommendation to look at what people do, not what they say. So the reference today is to the fact that the actual policy being implemented is hardly right wing at all. Just a pity that it doesn't fit into the lazy narrative of petty politics. But tie yourself to one party and its hard to see that.

Grum, thanks for the advice BTW. Very helpful, you're too kind.

😆

You still got some smug condescension in there but at least that post was mostly coherent, so thanks for that.

FWIW I think you make a reasonable point about looking at what people do rather than what they say, but you exaggerate the extent to which this is actually the case.

been mentioned? That's quite some complex....

I've seen the argument made before, perhaps by one of your cheerleaders not by you, I can't remember. And I'm not tied to one party - I've voted Labour, Green and Liberal Democrat at various different levels in different elections.

And I still don't see why you have such a problem admitting that you are generally right wing in your political/economic outlook, which would make you a natural Tory supporter (or perhaps New Labour). This really is very obvious to everyone here.

which is ironic as I believe you work in education?

Although he hints heavily that he works in education I don't think he does. I have no idea what he does for a living but my guess would be something like traffic warden, or some other job which leaves the person feeling somewhat inadequate.

Andy Burnham comes across as an entirely value-free carpetbagging opportunist.

Rubbish. I'm sure Andy Burnham has got principles. And if you don't like them... well, I'm sure he has others. (G Marx)

You still got some smug condescension in there

I've seen the argument made before, perhaps by one of your cheerleaders

my guess would be something like traffic warden, or some other job which leaves the person feeling somewhat inadequate.

Breathtaking.

Woppit if you are accusing me of having a smug condescension attitude towards THM then I am completely guilty as charged. He can kiss my hairy proletarian arse.

In contrast I have immeasurably more respect for someone like Mefty who often puts forward a conservative point of view in an intelligent manner and without the need to insult people's intelligence.

Was the irony unintentional do you think, woppit!?! 😉

mostly coherent...reasonable point...exaggerate...one of your cheerleaders etc

Sorry, who is condescending?

And I still don't see why you have such a problem admitting that you are generally right wing in your political/economic outlook

Not that it is any of your business, but since you labour the point (weak joke, sorry) because its true. On the old 4x4 matrix I was classified as a "LW libertarian" which is not too far off, but frankly the LW v RW is of little relevance to me - like some of Jezza's policies, its an outdated (Jurassic) way of thinking about things IMO.

He can kiss my hairy proletarian arse.

You are a real charmer, Ernie. probably the best offer of the weekend

Yeah well I'm not sure you're worthy THM, I might change my mind.

Shucks and I so wanted to see your Maggie posters too. Still another time, eh?

ernie_lynch - Member
Why epicyclo? Are you claiming that the choices are false and that all the candidates are ultimately the same ?

Ah no, just the potential result.

The other candidates all equal more of the same. Promise anything but proceed as normal.

If Corbyn gets in, they're going to gang up on him to make him ineffective or get rid of him. Which equals more of the same.

The only hope is that as soon as he is leader he behaves like a traditional tyrant and [s]executes[/s] expels any Red Tories who have smeared him.

Sorry, who is condescending?

Play the ball not the man THM. 😉

Whether I am condescending or not is of little relevance to whether you are.

Breathtaking.

Thanks!

Woppit if you are accusing me of having a smug condescension attitude towards THM then I am completely guilty as charged. He can kiss my hairy proletarian arse.

In contrast I have immeasurably more respect for someone like Mefty who often puts forward a conservative point of view in an intelligent manner and without the need to insult people's intelligence.

Exactly - I disagree with mefty about virtually everything politically but I respect his arguments/opinions and the way they are presented. And crucially they make sense.

Trying to pick apart what THM is actually on about in amongst all the pompous put-downs is really quite tedious.

Whether I am condescending or not is of little relevance to whether you are.

😀 M7:5 might help 😀

Have a good weekend and find some time for a ride. Weather looks crap though.

Breathtaking... hypocrisy, I mean.

Interesting that earnest has abandoned his attempts at dull exposition and is resorting to even duller arse references.

I see that Chukkup Da Money is going to form a guerilla underground to fight Jeremy's army on the event that he gets elected. You couldn't make it up.

Anyone for Dennis?

Breathtaking... hypocrisy, I mean.

He says without betraying a hint of irony as he proceeds to insult people.

Back on subject. While all the focus has been on Corbyn's alleged popularity among Labour Party members and supporters, it appears that he might have some significant wider support among ordinary voters in London at least.

[url= http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/jeremy-corbyn-is-vastly-more-popular-with-londoners-than-his-rivals-poll-finds-10455830.html ]Jeremy Corbyn is vastly more popular with Londoners than his rivals, poll finds[/url]

[i]But the pollsters found that Mr Corbyn had the support of 46 per cent of the capital’s residents, who thought he would make the best Labour leader.

Andy Burnham was a distant second place in the survey on 21 per cent, Yvette Cooper third on 20 per cent, with Liz Kendall, the Blairite candidate, trailing on 12 per cent.

The results suggest the views of the public – at least in the Capital – are broadly in line with those of Labour supporters, who also back Mr Corbyn by a landslide.[/i]

Oh? How so? I don't see any insult? Just a descriptive of your style and a commentary on the Labour comedy.Which is the subject, apparently. I thought you'd approve.

Blair ups the ante

[IMG] [/IMG]

If Corbyn is in on the first vote as a clear winner(presuming majority votes from long standing party members too) I wonder what the dissenting anti Corbyn MPs will do? Would the Conservatives want them as defectors once the publicity value of their disloyalty to Labour faded? Do they have any other career left to go to?

Perhaps more interestingly, what sort of protest might anti left MPs get from annoyed voters who feel voting has been undermined by a coup or similar poor behaviour?

There is a lot of potential for an internal party protest from even say a quarter of 600,000+ voters. There is a lot of writing about how the MPs may split the party but no one seems to be saying how the electorate of the party might respond to anti left MPs after the leader is announced. Hey, its almost like only the MPs response is of any value!

I think you might be surprised how many Labour MPs who are anti-Corbyn now that will end up fully accepting his leadership should he win.

There aren't that many free-thinking Labour MPs, most are careerists who go with the flow. When after John Smith's death Tony Blair became leader most Labour MPs accommodated the party's dramatic lurch to the right with a minimum of fuss.

The reason many Labour MPs express an anti-Corbyn stance now is simply because they feel it is expected of them, they do what they think is expected.

On the other hand imo a minority on the hard-right probably won't accept the result of the leadership election if it goes against their personal preferences. They with backing from the media, specially the Tory press, will have the capacity to cause some significant damage and possibly reverse it.

The sensible thing to do imo would be for Corbyn should he win to quickly call an emergency party conference. The emergency conference could pass rule changes to reestablish democratic control of the party thereby minimising the power and influence of the anti-democratic hard-right.

I heard Liz Kendall on the radio predicting doom and gloom. With her apparently trailing, would she not have been better stepping down and pledging support for another candidate if she did not want Corbyn to win.

Yep. Yet somehow, all three are stumbling on as if they can win against Corbyn and each other.

Wow, long thread! I'm sure I have nothing useful to add that hasn't been said and said again, but I'd just like to state for the record that as someone who has been completely disenchanted and disenfranchised by the politics of this country since I could first vote in '98, Jerermy Corben has sparked my interest like nobody else in that time. He seems honest. He says what a great deal of working people are thinking. He represents a complete sea change from business as usual corporate politics. I would vote for him. I doubt very much he can win an election; should he win the leadership contest it will be open season for the likes of Murdoch and other manipulators public opinion to destroy his popularity, and they'll have nigh on five years to do so. But at least he'll be a principled, dignified and inteligent OPPOSITION, rather than the weasly 'we'll just say what we think you want to hear' brigade that we have at present. For the first time in my entire life, I have a political leader who I can actually get excited about supporting, rather than just having to look for the least worst option.

v8ninety - Member
...should he win the leadership contest it will be open season for the likes of Murdoch and other manipulators public opinion to destroy his popularity, and they'll have nigh on five years to do so...

For decades the mainstream media owned mainly by tax evading non-dom billionaires has helped to hold down the cause of independence in Scotland and in particular, the SNP, by using fear, smear, and sneer methods.

But the rules of the game have changed thanks to social media, and despite a massive effort by the media, support for the SNP has surged massively.

The main stream media are being sidelined by folk networking between themselves, and I expect this to work in favour of a Corbyn led Labour Party. Once the media loses the trust of its gullible audience, they have Buckley's chance of regaining it.

picyclo - Member
v8ninety - Member
...should he win the leadership contest it will be open season for the likes of Murdoch and other manipulators public opinion to destroy his popularity, and they'll have nigh on five years to do so...
For decades the mainstream media owned mainly by tax evading non-dom billionaires has helped to hold down the cause of independence in Scotland and in particular, the SNP, by using fear, smear, and sneer methods.

But the rules of the game have changed thanks to social media, and despite a massive effort by the media, support for the SNP has surged massively.

The main stream media are being sidelined by folk networking between themselves, and I expect this to work in favour of a Corbyn led Labour Party. Once the media loses the trust of its gullible audience, they have Buckley's chance of regaining it.

For decades the mainstream media owned mainly by tax evading non-dom billionaires has helped to hold down the cause of independence in Scotland and in particular, the SNP, by using fear, smear, and sneer methods.

But the rules of the game have changed thanks to social media, and despite a massive effort by the media, support for the SNP has surged massively.

The main stream media are being sidelined by folk networking between themselves, and I expect this to work in favour of a Corbyn led Labour Party. Once the media loses the trust of its gullible audience, they have Buckley's chance of regaining it.

During the indy ref social media was the place where people went to be told what they want to hear. It was a massive bubble. I perused WOS for a laugh. Plenty of gullible people there wanting their pro indy fix.

The SNP will not be happy at the thought of a Jeremy Corbyn led Labour party.

If Corbyn is in on the first vote as a clear winner(presuming majority votes from long standing party members too) I wonder what the dissenting anti Corbyn MPs will do?

They should respect the result and votes of their members and align themselves fully to the principles and values of their new leader. Honesty comes first and his example of how to behave is clear and should be followed.

"Do as I do.." because that is why I have been chosen democratically as your leader. 500 to beat....The clock is ticking.

THM and earnest (sort of) agree! THM reckons they're obliged to and earnest reckons they will because they always go with the flow.

Left and right unite and fight!

"It is a new dawn, is it not?"

athgray - Member
During the indy ref social media was the place where people went to be told what they want to hear. It was a massive bubble. I perused WOS for a laugh. Plenty of gullible people there wanting their pro indy fix.

The SNP will not be happy at the thought of a Jeremy Corbyn led Labour party.

Aye, we users of social media are all stupid. Our stupidity is the only reason the SNP now dominates the political landscape in Scotland. But we're not as stupid as the folk who swallow everything published in the media owned by the foreign billionaires.

seosamh77 - Member
...ultimately labour got shafted because the SNP went back to boots on the ground and chapping doors and getting the grass roots motivated.

It definitely helped, but it had nowhere near the frequency of exposure compared to social media. My belief is that the boots on the ground came about because of the support generated by social media.

The sensible thing to do imo would be for Corbyn should he win to quickly call an emergency party conference. The emergency conference could pass rule changes to reestablish democratic control of the party thereby minimising the power and influence of the anti-democratic hard-right.

I would think it's rather simple to bring the rightwing rebels into line, just give local constituency parties the power to democratically de-select their MPs if they fail represent the constituency party adequately.

I'm sure I have nothing useful to add

That's Labour in Scotland stuffed then, no change.

[img] [/img]

That's Labour in Scotland stuffed then, no change.

why so ? the idea that the snp did so well in the general election due to a wave of nationalism makes little sense when the snp couldn't inspire a wave of nationalism just a short while past in the referendum.
the snp did so well in the general election because of it's stance on austerity. a labour party offering socialist ideals will always do well in scotland, imho.

The "no more devolution / powers" thing only works if folk in Scotland think there will never be another UK Tory government. As long as that is a realistic prospect, the SNP will attract the votes of those wishing to negate the more right-wing policies.

The "no more devolution / powers" thing only works if folk in Scotland think there will never be another UK Tory government. As long as that is a realistic prospect, the SNP will attract the votes of those wishing to negate the more right-wing policies.

Surely it only works if they think the SNP can deliver an end to austerity better than a Corbyn led Labour Party?

Once it dawns on them that the SNP in opossition is a paper tiger and that the Tories still hold the purse strings, the appeal wears off. As Sarah Palin said, "How's that hopey, changey stuff workin out for ya?". At the same time, the SNP can't afford to be anything but a paper tiger, because if they were, then they would have to take responsibility for the results, rather tha keeping on blaming the Tories for everything because 'they hold the purse strings'

Link to the Blair CIF piece?

Ninfan - you misunderstand how it's working. Not for the first time.

[quote=gofasterstripes said]Link to the Blair CIF piece?

😯 😆

Yeah, well, I did look through the website....

ninfan - Member

As Sarah Palin said, "How's that hopey, changey stuff workin out for ya?".

Only you would quote Sarah Palin.

I expect you think it was a great loss for the American people that she didn't become vice president ?

Not as much of a loss as it would be if either Trump or Clinton became PUSA next year 😯