Jeremy Corbyn

i actually think there is a similarity between Corbyn and the Trump campaign. We might see him as a deranged moron trying to be as offensive as possible, but in certain sections of the Republican right, that IS someone straight talking. Shooting from the hip. Saying the stuff that everyone thinks but is too afraid to say out loud. It's anti-politics, anti-politician, anti-media trained drone.

Politically yes, Corbyn is much closer to Sanders. But i think there's definitely a comparison with Trump too. Just as there is with Nigel Farage.

jebus...

Corbyn isn't even vaguely anti-politics.

And there isn't any comparison between Corbyn and Nigel Farage.

Despite having been in the limelight for just a few weeks there is widespread recognition of Corbyn's policies, Trident, tuition fees, railways, austerity, etc.

In contrast despite having been in the limelight for literally years most people haven't got a clue what Nigel Farage policies are beyond leaving the EU.

Mr Woppit - Member

The joy of uniformity.

Corbyn isn't even vaguely anti-politics.

no but he has appeal to those who are fed up with the current crop of politicians. The people who say they're not interested because all politicians are basically the same. Corbyn is a clear alternative to that, and that is part of his appeal

Corbyn isn't brilliant on the Scottish question, really - sure, he's anti-Trident, but he also thinks that benefits and welfare are devolved and it's up to the SNP to counter the Tories' welfare cuts.

They're not devolved, they're reserved to Westminster. It's a continuation of the "SNP Bad" strategy that's worked so badly for Scottish Labour.

I now see the Labour leadership campaign - in fact wider Westminster politics in general - the same way I see the US elections. Very important for us, but also happening somewhere else.

Labour senior leaders wear bow ties as well. What inference are we supposed to draw from the photo above?

[img] [/img]

as much as i agree with corbyns stance on several issues

I think his appeal is that he is anti establishment

but as the last election shows ultimately turkeys end up voting for xmas and we just get more of the same

farige and the kippers, while claiming plenty of votes, didnt change anything, despite having the same antiestablishment aura

<placeholder for next ad-hom on THM>

THM invites 'ad-homs' with his pompous condescending tone despite posts that make little sense and his refusal to accept the strange coincidence that the vast majority of his prolific bile/scorn is reserved for the SNP, Labour, the Lib Dems and the Green Party.

But he's definitely not a Tory supporter, oh no, perish the thought!

And by the way:

[b]When used inappropriately[/b], it is a fallacy in which a claim or argument is dismissed on the basis of some irrelevant fact or supposition about the author or the person being criticized.[2]

[b]Ad hominem reasoning is not always fallacious, for example, when it relates to the credibility of statements of fact or when used in certain kinds of moral and practical reasoning.[/b][3]

I'd vote for Liz because she is almost attractive

Burnham speaks...

"Jeremy’s plans lack credibility. It’s not possible to promise free university education, re-nationalising the utilities, without that coming at a great cost and if you can’t explain how that is going to be paid for then I don’t think we’ll win back the trust of voters on the economy.

So there is a real choice here. There are two big visions for Labour going forward. Mine has credibility at its heart, and I believe that is essential if Labour is to win the next general election. As ballot papers land, that is the decision that members of the party have to make."

Am I missing something here as I haven't seen or heard his 'big vision'? Unless 'credible economic policies', whatever they are, amount to it. Interesting how we can't afford free university education when we could find the money in the past, and Scotland can still afford it now.

but as the last election shows ultimately turkeys end up voting for xmas and we just get more of the same

Well, I would say that turkeys vote for Xmas when they've been persuaded that they're not actually turkeys. That again is where an effective opposition is necessary to challenge and inform.

farige and the kippers, while claiming plenty of votes, didnt change anything, despite having the same antiestablishment aura

I don't know about that - both Labour and the Tories have seemingly shifted their position much more towards UKIP in a few key areas.

dazh - Member
Am I missing something here as I haven't seen or heard his 'big vision'? Unless 'credible economic policies', whatever they are, amount to it. Interesting how we can't afford free university education when we could find the money in the past, and Scotland can still afford it now.

The posse in full flow is a joy to watch. Not trhe full team yet.....

Careful Doris, they will be in to you next but good that you understand the difference between a noun and an adjective. Lost on the clever ones, that!!!

ATP 😉 all funny to watch and a nice occasional distraction from doing a 2016 budget!!

Labour senior leaders wear bow ties as well. What inference are we supposed to draw from the photo above?

the SNP have bigger problems than Corbyn. after a landslide victory, the tide always turns to sweep away the marginal winners and no-hopers. (mixed metaphor). they need to focus on delivery in government and internal discipline. a donkey with a red rosette could win seats for labour from the SNP at the next election.

So basically, 'think of the children' and I'm 'I'm a woman'. I suppose at least she's leading by example on the role-reversal front, with Ed at home looking after the kids. Not sure that was quite the plan though.

they need to focus on delivery in government and internal discipline

After 8 years in government in Scotland, the SNP are more popular than ever - so peoiple seem to like what they're delivering.

a donkey with a red rosette could win seats for labour from the SNP at the next election.

Latest Holyrood poll:

[img] [/img]

A donkey with a red rosette might do better, couldn't do much worse. Oh, and the SNP keep winning by-elections - that's not what happens when a party is losing support.

I'll tell you what was an obnoxious piece of lazy sexism konnabunny, Yvette Cooper last night on Newsnight claiming that all the talk on transport, cars and trains, was about “toys for the Boys”, and that she wanted a feminist infrastructure. Truly cringeworthy it was.

BTW Woppit well done for making the comparison between Jeremy Corbyn and Kim Jong-un, it's been several days since a Tory knuckle-dragger has done it on this thread.

By the way earnest, that's not what I did.

Do pay attention.

The Labour leadership race is currently looking like this...

[img] ?oh=96a2fc8c4d5799c8a1c885842b45be08&oe=5676D932[/img]

Why epicyclo? Are you claiming that the choices are false and that all the candidates are ultimately the same ?

A donkey with a red rosette might do better, couldn't do much worse. Oh, and the SNP keep winning by-elections - that's not what happens when a party is losing support.

Hey Ernie

Woppit 😀

Any labour leader essentially has the backing of Scotland regardless of how we vote

Not at all. Jeremy Corbyn could be robbed of a parliamentary majority to increase corporation tax by the SNP, for example.

A genuinely social-democratic government led by Jeremy Corbyn could not rely on support from the SNP. How Scots vote can indisputably dictate the character of the Westminster government.

what an obnoxious piece of lazy sexism

I must have missed something but I'm not sure what's sexist about pointing out that the only reason Cooper can put forward for people to support her is the fact that she's not a man and that she'll try to help families with some extra childcare. Very feminist indeed. Of course, the only thing women care about is childcare and the raising of children isn't it? If she really was a feminist, rather than just claiming to be one to garner some votes, she'd be shouting very loudly about how she was going to enforce equal pay and working rights across all sectors, forcing all public and private organisations to have equal numbers of men and women in leadership positions, providing equal maternity and paternity rights and benefits, refusing to do business with countries which persecute women and a whole host of other things. Strangely though I've not heard any of that. Maybe she'll get round to it tomorrow?

Ernie, fair comment. I'm well with you on distrust of the SNP. But I'm not campaigning for them just explaining the attraction of alot scots to them. The SLP have a bigger task than corbyn IMO to gain back credibility, question is whether scots labour MP's will fight for Scotland or just be compliant. Public opinion is very much with the latter at the moment. This obviously becomes less of an issue if Westminster is acting correctly

nemesis - Member
As I see it, if he is elected Labour leader, at least there's some chance of an effective opposition. I might not particularly agree with many of the things he proposes but at least I feel that he'll hold the Tories to account rather than just try to look more and more like them but as a weak, ineffective facsimile.

That's how I see it. Realistically I don't see him as PM, rather as a very effective opposition leader. And as we have nearly five years of Tory rule ahead of us I don't feel that's a bad thing.

As for the next election, unless things radically change I'd predict another coalition due to the mixed-up politics of the current time; just between who, I don't know.

I just scanned some £5 notes and then printed them out (double sided and everything...), before going to Boots to try to spend them on my lunch.

They wouldn't accept them, but I thought that Corbyn was planning to do something similar.

How is that going to work if Boots wouldn't play ball with me ?

Careful Doris, they will be in to you next but good that you understand the difference between a noun and an adjective. Lost on the clever ones, that!!!

but I thought that Corbyn was planning to do something similar.

Not quite. He's planning to do it electronically, you know, like the government are doing right now. No need to scan and print.

http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/monetarypolicy/pages/qe/default.aspx

EDIT : Perhaps I should say that the Bank of England are doing it. Because of course Gordon Brown made the Bank of England "independent" and it has nothing to do with the government. Apparently.

Not quite. He's planning to do it electronically, you know, like the government are doing right now. No need to scan and print.

I give it about an hour before someone uses the phrase 'national credit card'.

does anyone understand what this meant?

It means that THM's pretence of knowledge is being seen through by more people so he is now trying to also pretend that he was just joking all along. He has tied himself in so may knots he is even trying to obfuscate the Edinburgh defence.

but I thought that Corbyn was planning to do something similar.

Makes you think doesn't it? An anti-austerity left wing politician and a pro-austerity right wing nasty Tory have essentially the same core policy and the heart of their strategy - QE v PQE - how very odd.

Meanwhile in Greece - odds on a snap election in the next month?

Not at all MSP - Doris and I were noting the similarities between the panto or campaigns not the individuals. So the posse's retort was misplaced as it confused a noun with an adjective. Any way can't claim any credit for the idea, the post was promoted by the FT article this morning. So no defence needed, the point stands here as it does in the FT.

Before jumping in with studs up, always better to check where the ball actually is

It means that THM's pretence of knowledge is being seen through by more people

I learnt a long time ago on here that it's best to just have a good laugh at THM's self-appointed superiority and not bother arguing against him. I don't know how Ernie has the energy. I especially like his deliberate misspelling of people's names, quite a nice touch I think 🙂

EDIT: Although I do agree with him on the left v right thing being a fantasy.

I'll admit to just giving up and blocking THM and Ninfan. I don't understand how people can be so wrong about everything and selfish. So I stopped trying fathom it out and now I don't have to see their posts.

And not a single reference to the points. Keep playing the man!

EDIT: Although I do agree with him on the left v right thing being a fantasy.

Why thank you!! And the proof - look at QE. The presses get turned on, the proceeds used to buy up government debt, yields stay low, government borrows more, runs larger than expected deficit and reduces spending cuts.

And how is this described? RW austerity!!! You have to laugh. And then Jezza's mate presents largely the same thing with a new nickname and its radical LW think. And whose gullible?

So the economy rebounds partly due to an expansionary fiscal policy and stealing money of savers and mispricing government bonds. Really RW that!!

Outstanding.

Back on topic...

[url= http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/aug/14/liz-kendall-choosing-jeremy-corbyn-labours-resignation-letter ]Looks like Burnham has finally given up the pretence of civility and joined in the gutter politics.[/url] Think I'll have to retract my earlier comments of him being able to hold his head up high. Not exactly surprising but disappointing all the same. Seriously though, he's going to have to think of a better reason to vote for him that 'John Prescott and Neil Kinnock agree with me'.

I don't read THM's post because largely they make no sense...for instance...

And then Jezza's mate presents largely the same thing with a new nickname and its radical LW think. And whose gullible?

...appears to be a cryptic crossword clue

[quote=nickc said]I don't read THM's post because largely they make no sense...for instance...
And then Jezza's mate presents largely the same thing with a new nickname and its radical LW think. And whose gullible?
...appears to be a cryptic crossword clue

It ain't too difficult 🙂

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/aug/03/economist-defends-corbynomics-criticism-richard-murphy-jeremy-corbyn-qe

We had moved on to printing presses....

X-post actually more to do with Chris Giles piece in the FT today than the Guardian one. But same topic really.

Key question, how much difference is there in reality between what a nice honest left winger is proposing and what an evil nasty Tory Chancellor is executing? Answers on the back of a stamp......

Also funny to see Murphy's comments on how Peston explains what he (Murphy) is proposing. That's the problem with and economics editor not really be an expert in that field. 😉

dazh - Member
Back on topic...

[url= http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/aug/14/liz-kendall-choosing-jeremy-corbyn-labours-resignation-letter ]Looks like Burnham has finally given up the pretence of civility and joined in the gutter politics.[/url]

If he's resorting the 'silent majority' argument, things are pretty bleak already. Not really looking forward to seeing what three weeks of desperation and infighting will do to them all.

Key question, how much difference is there in reality between what a nice honest left winger is proposing and what an evil nasty Tory Chancellor is executing?

He is alternatively schooled and speaks with a different accent.