Jeremy Corbyn

Good to see Labour are aligning north and south of the border with two new leaders who both share a complete absence of any meaningful work experience outside of the political bubble - isn't it about time that "Labour" was rebranded to reflect that most of its senior leaders have never had a job in the way most of the population would recognise?

Trump/Corbyn. Now that's what I call a "special relationship". Surpassing even:

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just5minutes - Member

Good to see Labour are aligning north and south of the border with two new leaders who both share a complete absence of any meaningful work experience outside of the political bubble - isn't it about time that "Labour" was rebranded to reflect that most of its senior leaders have never had a job in the way most of the population would recognise?

What a strange thing for a Tory to say.

Most of the senior Tory leaders have had no meaningful work experience outside of the political bubble and have never had a job in the way most of the population would recognise.

And btw Labour haven't got a new leader "south of the border", just north of the border. Pay attention.

ninfan - Member
...At the same time, the SNP can't afford to be anything but a paper tiger, because if they were, then they would have to take responsibility for the results, rather tha keeping on blaming the Tories for everything because 'they hold the purse strings'

But that is the problem, the UK govt does hold the real purse strings. Pocket money isn't quite the same thing.

The electorate here are well aware of the scam. It's why despite continuous negative media bleatings about the SNP, the support for the SNP continues to grow.

Looking at Labour in Scotland, has there ever been a case of a political party which got so much uncritical media support, and yet crashed *so badly in the polls?

*(Went from 41 seats to just 1 in the last election, and is getting hoovered up in all the council elections).

😆 @ Scottish Labour new leader ... Crikey, talking about first impression.

Just been catching up, a most entertaining thread.

Of course Corbyn isn't going to agree to another Scottish referendum, no Labour leader is going to do that. Only the Tories will agree to one and like Salmond said it was a once in a lifetime opportunity. Corbyn believes it will be easier to win seats in Scotland than the South/Midlands hence his stance.

Go Jeremy go, his campaign looks unstoppable. Truly excellent news. I very much hope I'm right on this one and I can maintain my track record.

Jeremy is/should be a more credible candidate over the other clowns contesting for leadership as he seems to be a genuine guy.

jambalaya - Member
...Corbyn believes it will be easier to win seats in Scotland than the South/Midlands hence his stance.

He's just blown that opportunity.

BTW, just in case you don't realise it, Salmond isn't king of Scotland. We decide when we want another referendum.

But let's keep this thread focused on Corbyn.

He's just blown that opportunity.

He's perhaps banking on the idea that a lot of the support for independence was a reaction against right-wing Tory and Labour parties, he's maybe hoping a left-wing Labour party will attract enough of those people back to Labour.

Problem is, for that to work, Scottish people need to believe that Corbyn could win the next election. Not sure that's going to happen.

epicyclo
Corbyn certainly has not missed the boat in Scotland. I know that the potential of a Labour leader that may appeal to people on both sides of the "border" you hold dear as though it is the iron curtain may be anathema to you and your wish for a one party state.

Also get over the media. People of all political persuasions read mainstream media for a variety of reasons. Some may follow the politics, many probably like the sports coverage or the crossword, or a bit of a window on the world, or out of habit. You, however seek social media to be told the BS you want to hear.

f the "border" you hold dear as though it is the iron curtain may be anathema to you and your wish for a one party state.

athgray - Member
epicyclo
Corbyn certainly has not missed the boat in Scotland. I know that the potential of a Labour leader that may appeal to people on both sides of the "border" you hold dear as though it is the iron curtain may be anathema to you and your wish for a one party state.

...You, however seek social media to be told the BS you want to hear.

One party state?

Stop dribbling. It's free elections, with a rabidly anti-SNP media, so very much not controlled by the state. It illustrates how much on the nose the other parties are to have only only 3 seats between them in Scotland.

Labour Party membership in Scotland is now down to about 7,000 apparently from over 20,000 before the referendum. Corbyn isn't going to pull any of them back by promising more of the same, which from Scotland's point of view is what we'll get.

Right now there are moves to form another independence party with a UDI agenda because some people feel the SNP are not radical enough. While it is unlikely to get much support, let's not forget it was only a few years ago there were only 5 SNP MPs and Labour ruled Scotland, so who knows where that will end up.

This issue is not going away, and if Corbyn doesn't recognise it, he'll not regain Scottish votes. It looks like he won't because he recognises that playing the stomp on Scotland card plays well in England.

As for social media, well for example, tell me which papers have published the full voting records of the MPs.
Yet that was available on social media, and also the information on how to check it. That's the strength of social media - you get information you'd never hear on the controlled media, and it is simple enough to check and follow it up. Every time a politician gave us BS, someone would post a link that enabled it to checked. The media don't give us that - unless it's an SNP politician.

There are plenty loonie tunes on it as well, but it's easy enough to spot them, and a quick check eliminates them.

This issue is not going away, and if Corbyn doesn't recognise it, he'll not regain Scottish votes. It looks like he won't because he recognises that playing the stomp on Scotland card plays well in England.

I know you are in a hurry for another ref. I admit I did not expect the clamour to be so strong less than a year down the line. You can't accept that the decision made less than a year ago was made by Scots.

Bring on Corbyn.

athgray - Member
Do you honestly think people in England give a toss about stomping on Scotland?...

Of course not, why should they?

And that is why I believe the best thing for Scotland is to be able to determine it's own affairs. Simple.

WTF are you on about? You just said Corbyn recognises stomping on Scotland plays well in England.
Which is it. Do people in England care about stomping on Scotland or not?????

?

I awake to the news that Gordo (for it is he) has announced that Labour needs a "credible economic policy". Who'd a thunk it?

Not his, presumably.

. I very much hope I'm right on this one and I can maintain my track record.

Troll. Do not feed.

Yes Act 3 Scene 3 starring Gordin on economics (no to joining Euro apart) is a fitting climax to the Panto. But then again you have to respect a man who saved the world from financial meltdown (single-handedly)

It's all about independence, it's all about anti-austerity, it's all about sectarian hatred off the Tory (do you remember that tax they introduced 20 odd years ago?!?!). Who's gullible? If the SNP are one thing they are pragmatic and sensitive to subtle shifts in wind direction - the ends justify any means. Anything from extreme Austrian economics (no lender of last resort), RW tax competition, a falling education policy and social policy.

At least Jezza is now talking tax cuts for SMEs - if he keeps going along that route he might even get my vote!!

I think it was epicyclo that previously mentioned the clearances as an argument for Scottish independence!

I awake to the news that Gordo (for it is he) has announced that Labour needs a "credible economic policy". Who'd a thunk it?

Not his, presumably.

Oh please go on about him selling off all our gold again. I love that.

Do you honestly think people in England give a toss about stomping on Scotland? You love playing a victim.

DrJ I feel on pretty solid ground that a Corbyn win will be electoral disaster for the Labour Party and that there is a very very good chance that if he wins he won't last 3 years as leader. With Corbyn as leader Labour will lurch left and fragment. This will allow the Lib Dems and the Tories to further entrench themselves in the middle ground and I'm a firm believer that the middle ground is basically where you need to be to win UK elections.

Oh please go on about him selling off all our gold again

In his favour he introduced the minimum wage, gave the Scottish Whisky industry some significant tax breaks and helped swing the referendum to a No. Edit: as tmh pointed out he did say no the the euro, so a huge thumbs up to that one. Saved us €50-75bn in loans (gifts) to Greece

How about declaring the end of boom and bust ?

Crivvens man, don't you listen - Gordon promised an end to Boom [b]and[/b] Bust - he ended Boom, and he replaced it with Bust, [i]just like he said he would...[/i]

How about saying he would run a balanced budget over the economic cycle ?

Again, another promise delivered, as long as you define the economic cycle as being from 1999 to 2005!

athgray - Member
Do you honestly think people in England give a toss about stomping on Scotland?...Of course not, why should they?
epicyclo
And that is why I believe the best thing for Scotland is to be able to determine it's own affairs. Simple.

i understand the meaning of my post could be misconstrued. I meant that the people of England IMO do not wish to stomp on on Scotland, which you clearly believe.

Your sad narrative, of victimhood and "us up here, against them down there" will unfortunately be prominent post indy. I want little to do with it when the history books are written.

Mr Woppit - Member

I awake to the news that Gordo (for it is he) has announced that Labour needs a "credible economic policy". Who'd a thunk it?

Not his, presumably.

Nor the Tories who managed to oversea 2 crippling recessions during their 18 years in power, record levels of government spending and income inequality, the highest levels of unemployment since the 1930s, and the highest tax burden and home repossessions in UK history.

Morning earnest. Clumsy misdirection in a bit early for a Sunday....

Coffee up!

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/jeremy-corbyn-would-reduce-labours-chances-of-winning-the-next-election-poll-reveals-10457458.html

😀

athgray - Member
Your sad narrative, of victimhood...

Nah, it's about wanting to live in a democratic state where the issues being dealt with are relevant to my country.

As for victimhood, it's about making sure it doesn't happen again and fixing up the imbalances. We can't change the past, but we can do something about the future.

We're fed up of colonial rule by a festering corrupt oligarchy with its supervised "democracy".

I was hoping Corbyn was a fresh breeze that would sort it out. It seems he supports a united independent Ireland, but is not keen on an independent Scotland.

grum - Member
I think it was epicyclo that previously mentioned the clearances as an argument for Scottish independence!

Isn't it? Do you regard genocide as a good thing?

epicyclo - Member
It seems he supports a united independent Ireland, but is not keen on an independent Scotland.

btw you should chill out on the colonial rhetoric a little! 😆 It's ridiculous and makes you sound like a nationalist yahoo.

seosamh77 - Member
There's not really any contradiction there.
btw you should chill out on the colonial rhetoric a little! It's ridiculous and makes you sound like a nationalist yahoo.

I've lived in a colony. It had a democratically elected parliament, and overseeing that was an office of the crown with a governor appointed by the UK govt (ie not elected to that office or accountable to the people).

Scotland has a democratically elected parliament, and overseeing that is an office of the crown, the Scotland Office which is a UK Government Department headed by the Secretary of State for Scotland who is appointed by the UK govt (ie not elected to that office or accountable to the people).

The similarities are plain to see. If Scotland wasn't a colonial administration, the elected head of state in Scotland should hold that position.

yahooo!

Nah, it's about wanting to live in a democratic state where the issues being dealt with are relevant to my country.

You do, your country is the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

[i]That the Two Kingdoms of Scotland and England shall upon the first day of May next ensuing the date hereof and forever after be United into One Kingdom by the Name of Great Britain[/i]
Act of union, 1707

Just like Texas is no longer a Country, and people born there are from the 'United States of America', rather than being from the 'Republic of Texas'.

Isn't it? Do you regard genocide as a good thing?

Jebus.

bainbrge - Member
"Isn't it? Do you regard genocide as a good thing?"
Jebus.

Check the definition.

But it is relatively minor compared to the 4 million or so Indians deliberately allowed to starve to death by the UK in WW2.

ninfan - Member
You do, your country is the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

When we start calling England South Britain, you may persuade me of that.

"I think it was epicyclo that previously mentioned the clearances as an argument for Scottish independence!"

Isn't it? Do you regard genocide as a good thing?

Have I got this right - you want 'Scottish independence' to stop further genocides ?

Isn't it? Do you regard genocide as a good thing?

Oh wow - really, again?

How would an independent Scotland have stopped the Scottish clan chiefs and landowners who carried out the clearances?

And that is probably the worst straw man argument I've ever seen on here, which is really saying something.

But it is relatively minor compared to the 4 million or so Indians deliberately allowed to starve to death by the UK in WW2.

Some classic whataboutery too. My logical fallacy bingo score-card is getting ticked off rapidly.

And I bet not a single Scottish person as involved in any of that were they, just the evil English right? And people claim Scottish nationalism has nothing to do with blind illogical bigotry against the English....

Strange whataboutery at that, since presumably Scots were part of the leaving to starve thang.

Oh look...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victor_Hope,_2nd_Marquess_of_Linlithgow

A Scot was viceroy of India at the time....

I would put in a lol smiley but it seems a bit inappropriate when talking about a famine. Classic though epicyclo - loving your work!

Could somebody please explain why the right wing chuggers z11, Jam( who started a thread slagging AS for giving his salary to charity) and "sweaty isn't an insult" hurtmore care so much about Scotland? While claiming they don't...

The Telegraph has produced a handy guide to comradely language to allow people to understand what the Corbynites actually mean:

[url= http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/11804199/How-to-speak-like-a-Corbynite-a-helpful-guide.html ]http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/11804199/How-to-speak-like-a-Corbynite-a-helpful-guide.html[/url]

[b]Blair, Tony[/b]. Genocidal Right-wing dictator who led Labour to three disastrous election victories.

[b]Compassion[/b]. What Corbynites’ political views are inspired by, along with empathy, kindness, decency and fellow feeling. That and Aneurin Bevan’s dictum that all Tories are “lower than vermin”.

[b]Foot, Michael[/b]. Visionary thinker who led Labour to triumphant defeat.

[b]Hatred[/b]. What Tory scum are full of.

 

It might be worth pointing out that things similar to the Highland Clearances happened in other parts of the UK as well. Yes there were lowland Scots involved in the Clearances they along with colleaguesfrom elsewhere in the UK acted on the behalf of the many (but by no means all) clan chiefs who colluded in what Marx described as an act of terrorism. They also acted with the support and encouragement of the British Government who were anxious to wipe out gaels in order to prevent another jacobite rebellion.The Clearances lasted for about a century and in my opinion it is a period from which few of the so called great men of the time emerge with any credit wherever they may have come from. I have to disagree though grum in my experience anti English prejudice is not a defining characteristic of Scottish nationalism nor is anti Scottish prejudice a common characteristic of English people

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/11804199/How-to-speak-like-a-Corbynite-a-helpful-guide.html

The Daily Telegraph really has given up all attempts to remain a serious newspaper as it descends to puerile levels of the gutter press.

It's sad as I once used to occasionally buy the Daily Telegraph when I wanted a sensible alternative to the Guardian.

Now however I wouldn't be surprised if Richard Littlejohn became a regular columnist for the Daily Telegraph, that pathetically childish piece provided by cranberry could have come straight from Richard Littlejohn. Very sad.

EL - Michael Deacon, the author of the article, is the Telegraph's parliamentary sketch writer, so what he writes is supposed to be humorous and not be taken too seriously.

Well obviously it's not supposed to be taken seriously! 🙂

In the same way that Richard Littlejohn's recent comment that he would rather trust Jimmy Savile to babysit than the Labour Party wasn't supposed to be taken seriously.

But it's still puerile and tasteless nonsense which I wouldn't expect to see in a quality newspaper.

is supposed to be humorous

aye side splitting stuff 🙄