Yesterday's TV opportunity balls-up around the trestle tabling was interesting.
In the first bit, Watson was sitting (uncomfortable and embarrassed) on Corbyn's left. At the second clip, he suddenly wasn't there anymore.
There's been nothing from him since. Was he called away, or has he now given up on the Mad Hatter completely, I wonder?
You know - what with him being a Blairite Traitor and all...
10/6 this style. 😀
I did. So Labour are going to get wiped out in the North by UKIP.
Yes. Put simply. The writing has been on the wall for quite some time. Its just that Jeremy and comrades don't want to read it. So therefore the problem doesn't exist. Same as with the votes of no confidence, us coming out of the EU, the establishment of a right wing tory hegamony
It'll all be just fine if we all link arms, sing the Red Flag, and repel the Blairites. The bright socialist uplands are just round the corner Comrade!!!!
Yes. Put simply. The writing has been on the wall for quite some time. Its just that Jeremy and comrades don't want to read it. So therefore the problem doesn't exist. Same as with the votes of no confidence, us coming out of the EU, the establishment of a right wing tory hegamony
and mostly as the demographics of people has changed so much, the working man who once was everywhere is very different these days. The strong union culture in big job for life employers is gone. Labours low hanging fruit has all been picked.
Now here is the challenge, you can either do what you always did and head to the socialist dream and see who follows or try and get elected and do what you can, caught between a Blair and a hard place really.
Since he was elected anyone want to list his top 5 achievements?
Top 5 achievements.
1. Survived an attempted coup.
2. Survived an attempted coup.
3. Survived an attempted coup.
4. Survived an attempted coup.
5. Survived an attempted coup.
Top 5 achievements.
1. Making the Labour Party a pointless electoral irrelevance
2. Making the Labour Party a pointless electoral irrelevance
3. Making the Labour Party a pointless electoral irrelevance
4. Making the Labour Party a pointless electoral irrelevance
5. Making the Labour Party a pointless electoral irrelevance
in stubbornly refusing to go, he's demonstrating not only his total failure as a politician, but that in reality he's as self-serving and entitled as Boris Johnson on the other side of the fence. Just with less ambition.
binners, are you sure you don't need grief counselling at this point? 😯 😐
1. Listened to the members (aka formed a cult)
2. Ignored the PLP
3. Developed distain for electorate
4. Survived Coup
5. Campaigned for remain (appeared on one late night chat show)
Wopster... I keep hoping I'm going to wake up at some point, and this whole last week was just a terrible nightmare
Don't worry, nursey Kitten Heels will be along soon to make it all better...
Edit: suddenly realised that's probably not helping. Sorry.
How about
It's the thought that all this shithousing could result in nothing more electable than Angela 'Why won't Jez ring me? Sob' Eagle and The Noncefinder General himself that is so, so depressing.
Is this really it? The need for worthwhile opposition rather than gesture politics has never been greater and the pointlessness of the current Labour Party never more evident.
Was going to say...
Oh bum. Can't get the picture of the little fluffy kitten up. 😥
The noncefinder General 😆
Sad and worrying times. Feels like a big opportunity for a new progressive party though. Not sure Tim Farron has the chops to do it with elements of the Labour Party and SNP though.
I think everyone is forgetting how right of centre Labour had become.
There was really no point in having them as opposition as everything bad the Tories were doing Labour had done before/ started.
This shitstorm needed to happen.
Binners is upset because of brexit but its not Corbyns fault. Was Tristram Hunt wanting Corbs to come to stoke and do his job for him? Alan Johnson was in charge of the campaign FFS. Media only interested in blue on blue gossip.
I will vote for Corbyn whatever but it would be goid if the PLP could come up with a decent candidate. I'd never heard of Jo Cox so there might be another in there!
Watson, Eagle, Cooper, Burnham all crsp.
SNP are to make an application to be the official oppostion as Angus Robertson has more loyal MPs than Corbyn
Its a PR stunt as it won't happen but all the same more embarrasment
@ctlk my view is the electorate have moved to the centre / right. The core vote for genuine left wing politics has evaporated
Well, they would be a more effective opposition.
I must admit, the thought crossed my mind that, were it not for the obvious 'brand' restrictions, An expansion of the SNP could actually attract voters in the north of England and beyond.
Perhaps they could rebadge themselves and launch down south for a pop at the big time? They've got Scotland sewn up.
Genuine question. what exactly is the "new kind of politics" Corbyn keeps talking about. So far I've not seen anything new
Binners is upset because of brexit but its not Corbyns fault.
Of course not. He tirelessly campaigned for remain, by disappearing from view for weeks, then emerging to 'say? Europe? S'alright, I suppose?" like a surly teenager. He bares absolutely no responsibility for us leaving the EU, and ushering in the most triumphantly right wing administration this country has ever seen, who are about to throw workers rights and human rights out of the window
You're absolutely right. I mean... why would the leader of the labour party have any interest in preventing that?
"So far I've not seen anything new"
You have got to be kidding! 😀
Workers rights are not reliant on Europe and frankly they need improving. I'd trustCorbyn to do this over Blair.
Brilliant! All he has to do is get elected and he can usher in this new dawn of improved workers rights.
Should be a doddle given his universal popularity with the electorate, which is bound to have been massively increased by most of his own MP's saying they wouldn't trust him to run a bath
Meanwhile... back in the real world......
Should be a doddle given his universal popularity with the electorate, which is bound to have been massively increased by most of his own MP's saying they wouldn't trust him to run a bath
He had the mandate - if Labour fumble this open goal they've been gifted, the rebels can take a big share of the blame for arguing about who taps it in.
I think everyone is forgetting how right of centre Labour had become.
No smiley?
Media only interested in blue on blue gossip.
Really? Tbe Labour meltdown seems to be getting more coverage than the Tory one.
I will vote for Corbyn whatever but it would be goid if the PLP could come up with a decent candidate. I'd never heard of Jo Cox so there might be another in there!
It a pretty shallow talent pool, true. How many of the shadow cabinet have you heard of?
Watson, Eagle, Cooper, Burnham all crsp.
And yet perceived as better than the incumbent. But cheer up, the Tories have to chose between a clown and a token who cannot implement anything.
Happy Days for UK politics.
So the main criticism of JC seems to have become 'because he can't win' or 'because he isn't a good leader'.
So name me someone in the country who has similar socialist values that [i]can[/i] win?
When you realise there isn't one, you realise that criticism of JC on those grounds is pointless.
So you have to compromise and wonder which left-leaning centerist could win. I haven't found one yet. People say David Milliband, but I have absolutely no experience what so ever of him and find it hard to believe when his brother was so easily rubbished. Surely it would be seen as a backwards step.
jambalaya - Member
SNP are to make an application to be the official oppostion as Angus Robertson has more loyal MPs than CorbynIts a PR stunt as it won't happen but all the same more embarrasment
You have to smile at the SNP - they are like the typical snarling Scottish flanker, always niggling away and getting under your skin. And Roberston even delivers this with a slight smile!
@ctlk my view is the electorate have moved to the centre / right. The core vote for genuine left wing politics has evaporated
The electorate have barely changed. We have not had extremes of any wings in recent history. UK politics is moderate and centrist. That is the major parties are so similar. They are broadly representative.
One of the reasons for the current shock, however, is that behind this, there is a solid xenophobic and often racist element that the base parties and individuals can tap into
what exactly is the "new kind of politics" Corbyn keeps talking about.
There is nothing new in politics it is over 2000 years old, all been tried before.
Although trying to hold on to power long past your sell by date, is politics more often seen in places like the old Eastern block or South America, so I guess he is bringing something new to the UK electorate at least!
Did anyone hear his interview on R5 the morning after the EU result, it was hilarious as when they asked him why he wasn't more prominent during the campaign, he started talking about how active he'd been during the local elections 😯
He's stood by and watched UKIP become, in the former labour 'heartlands' of the North, what the SNP have become in Scotland.
Can a pro EU party offer these regions anything they actually want?
As far as I can see they'd rather starve to death than accept immigrants.
😀 sadly
It's clear that the Socialist Worker's Part.... sorry, Labour Party is only interested in turning itself into an ideologically pure flag-waver for the "left". I expect that, following the second triumph for Comrade Jeremy,the membership will open up to include all the other rag-bag of navel gazers from across the spectrum of Maoists, Trotskyites, Stalinists and so on who can then tie the Party up in years of wrangling amongst themselves about which bit of the left is the proper bit of the left, whilst in the meantime, the Conservative Party have a free pass to govern the country far into the future because middle England, as it showed last time, will only vote for The Labour Party if it attaches the word "New" and is headed by a plausible snake oil salesman. The anti-Corbynistas will probably have to decide between a SDP 2.0 or joining the Liberals.
Agreed that it's pointless to criticise the 'job' JC is doing of leading the labour party. Like, if you all agreed to put George from Rainbow in charge of something, you don't then get to turn around and say 'I can't believe what a bad job this guy is doing'.AlexSimon - MemberSo the main criticism of JC seems to have become 'because he can't win' or 'because he isn't a good leader'.
So name me someone in the country who has similar socialist values that can win?
When you realise there isn't one, you realise that criticism of JC on those grounds is pointless.
You can, though, criticise his personal lack of leadership. This has been a real surprise for me. For a reputedly kind, fair-minded and good-humoured man, he does an excellent impression of a bitter, curmudgeonly arl ****. Horrible communicator.
As many have said, it just shows the absolute sterility of protest 'politics'. 30 years of JC spent saying no to everything means he's no longer a politician, if he ever was in the first place, and can't get anything done.
Much as I hate to agree with you Wopster - you're absolutely on the money! Sadly!
As the Tory party veers rabidly to the right, there lies a golden opportunity for a centrist party to build up a Blair style hegamony for a few terms.
And the PLP sees this. But what does Jeremy see.? Obviously not this. He thinks what the country is crying out for is some leftist socaialist workers party. The fact that the electorate has consistently rejected this is a minor ssue of no consequence. Like I said earlier - The Corbynites need to start seeing the world as it actually is, rather than how they'd like it to be from their 6th form common room bunker.
The PLP sees that Corbyn stands as a hulking great 1970's style roadblock to the greatest electoral opportunity it has had since 1997
As far as workable government in what will remain of the UK is concerned, he's irrelevant and has brought his Party along with him to that happy state.
He's already in the past.
Sorry, binners. I'm sure the coming years of internal arguments will keep ernie engaged, though. 😉
As the Tory party veers rabidly to the right, there lies a golden opportunity for a centrist party to build up a Blair style hegamony for a few terms.
Surely that is now the LibDems?
Although that hasn'y worked out too well either....
The far left want to turn the Labour Party into something it is not interested in becoming, its moved on and understood winning elections is not possible with a hard left agenda. Those on the far left are well aware that any new party is doomed to long term isolation, for the same reason the Blairites aren't going to break away. The Labour Party is going to be the party of the left. As we've seen in Scotland Labour's demise has lead to the rise of a centre/centre right party in the SNP who talk a lefty game but olay in the centre/centre right
True- Cleggy must be turning in his political grave right now.
Wrong time, wrong place - the quick path to power is not always the best!!
@footflaps Lib Dems are mortally wounded - they have become a party of local government, the parosh council. Tories will continue to broaden mixing minimum/living wage increases with higher personal allowance with Brexit opening horizons to the East. The Tories know how to win they will not vacate the centre ground and aloow easy pickings for Labour/Lib Dems
Wrong time, wrong place - the quick path to power is not always the best!!
Sold his party out for a Referendum on a "grubby little compromse" 😐
The Tories know how to win they will not vacate the centre ground and aloow easy pickings for Labour/Lib Dems
Have you been on Holiday for a couple of weeks Jammers? You not noticed which right wing tail is presently wagging the Tory dog?
Just because you don't regard rabid anti-EU/we hate everyone rhetoric as particularly right wing, doesn't mean anyone else shares your opinion
Apart from Bill Cash, and John Redwood, obviously.
What the Tory party is engaged in at the moment could not in anyones book be described as the "Centre Ground'. They've just kicked the 'Centre Ground' out. He resigned last Friday. And his allies will shortly be purged from the front bench. How attractive to centrist voters do you think thats going to look once IDS gets the 'Nasty Party' back into full swing, without the Daves to reign him in?
Jambas - your confidence may well be misplaced. The Tories are in a mess - torn apart on Europe and with a new leadership team who will fail to deliver on the [s]lies[/s] promises that got them to their new roles. That this is being hidden is simply a reflection of the astonishing own-goal being scored by the opposition whose disarray is the only thing that makes the Tories "appear" in good shape.
This is very difficult. I've already put on record my view that Corbyn should step aside. But Angela ******* Eagle? Are we really going through all this pain for Angela Eagle?
A couple of points...
1. However much labour MPs and people think Corbyn is useless, you still have to respect the wishes of labour members.
2. The failure of labour to engage working class voters in the north goes much further back than Corbyn so he can't really be blamed. I'm not sure how anyone could expect him to win back the idiots in the north (which I'm now calling them after the brexit vote) in 9 months.
3. He may have been ineffectual but you have to look at this in the context of working against a biased media and more importantly a PLP which has consistently worked against him at every turn. How anyone could do anything remotely like a competent job in this environment is beyond me.
1) and 2) Points well made @dazh
As for 3 the BBC is clearly left leaning
As for the Brexit vote in the North thats related to 2). Labour recognised immigration was a problem but quashed campaigning on that at GE 2015. Maybe Corbyn can win them back by confirming he voted Leave 😉
I'd agree on that Daz. If the labour party thinks merely changing leader - again -will change their electoral fortunes, they're living on planet penis.
The whole party needs fundamental reform, from the ground up. But thats not going to happen under Comrade Corbyn. The first step has to be ushering him back onto the backbenches he should never have left.
As for 3 the BBC is clearly left leaning
Bloody communists!!!!!
As for 3 the BBC is clearly left leaning
No it really isn't.
And in the case of the brexit it has focused on the leave campaigners, because they are "characters". The BBC now very much concentrates on "magazine journalism" it has moved very far from its journalistic roots (or had them poisoned).
This is very difficult. I've already put on record my view that Corbyn should step aside. But Angela ******* Eagle? Are we really going through all this pain for Angela Eagle?
what's the expression - you couldn't make...... 🙂
But the Eagle hasn't landed yet - more names to come surely?
He may have been ineffectual but you have to look at this in the context of working against a biased media and more importantly a PLP which has consistently worked against him at every turn. How anyone could do anything remotely like a competent job in this environment is beyond me.
(partly) True - he was doomed from the start. That WAS obvious.
A lot of shouting coming from binners but not many ideas....
Pat Glass has resigned. 8 hours into the job...
