And... really... whats there anyway? Apart from the oil, obviously? A lot of sand? Some mosques? Olive trees? Humous?
dont forget the dates, figs and shwarma!!
I tell you... if I were running the planet, we'd all be better off...
no we wouldn't...you'd make us all shop at Greggs!! 😆
@gonzy the UN school full of people was hit by a Hamas rocket. The more recent school event the IDF killed three Hamas on a motorcycle which did result in some deaths of people in the immediate area including at the school. The UN has discovered weapon stores in 3 UN schools. Hamas claimed to have captured the soldier and then retracted it knowing it would backfire, either way they killed two soldiers via a suicide bomber emerging from a tunnel after the ceasefire.
You've said yourself many times the BBC was biased, so that basis I am not surprised you think most of what Israel says is lies. How you can post that the BBC is pro-Israeli I'll never understand. Anything that doesn't suit your point of view is a lie.
Hamas builds it's attack tunnels and stores weapons in and under residential properties (and mosques) and then tells the residents to stay put. That's a human shield in my book.
ISIS is a far bigger threat to Palestinians than Israel.
But Gonzy... no two countries with a Greggs have ever gone to war with each other. Food for thought indeed 😉
i think ISIS is a big threat to Israel too.
We do agree on this point. I mean ISIS is a bigger threat to the whole region than is the US or Israel is. ISIS will focus on controlling the other Muslim states where it assumes the West, ie the US, doesn't care. The West was not going to intervene on the side of Syrian Government and nor where the Russians. ISIS took the view, correctly IMO, that the US would not defend the Iraqi government. ISIS knows the US will defend Israel and Saudi Arabia so I suspect it will focus it's attention elsewhere until it feels strong enough. I suspect this will include Palestinians living in Syria who will have to comply, leave or face death and in far great numbers than we have seen in Gaza.
But Gonzy... no two countries with a Greggs have ever gone to war with each other. Food for thought indeed
true..but unless one country has better pasties than the other, or one sells veg pasties and the other doesnt...then they'll be lobbing stale pasties at each other...and those badboys can do some serious damage!!
jambalaya - Member
the UN school full of people was hit by a Hamas rocket.
Source?
jambalaya - Member
The more recent school event the IDF killed three Hamas on a motorcycle which did result in some deaths of people in the immediate area including at the school
Source?
jambalaya - Member
Hamas claimed to have captured the soldier and then retracted it knowing it would backfire,
Source?
This be the ISIS thread not the Gaza thread.
You've said yourself many times the BBC was biased, so that basis I am not surprised you think most of what Israel says is lies. How you can post that the BBC is pro-Israeli I'll never understand. Anything that doesn't suit your point of view is a lie.
i accuse the BBC of bias because that is what it is doing...every report i have been made aware of has had commentary from individuals who are aligned to Israel...there has no commentary made from the Palestinian point of view.
a few weeks ago nearly 100,000 demonstrators descended on London to demonstrate of the conflict and speak out against Israel...the BBC failed to report on this...not even a snippet.
when thousands of demonstrators marched on Media City in Manchester to demonstrate against the BBC...again this was not reported by them
This be the ISIS thread not the Gaza thread.
true, this is what i meant by the whataboutery.
it is leading us off topic...even i've been caught up in it.
this thread is for ISIS
talk about Palestine/Israel on the other thread please.
I'd like his sources on this thread please, as the statements were made here.
Ask the people in these countries Iraq , Syria , Lybia etc if things are better now or were they better before. It might have been bad but nothing can compare to this. Ime pretty sure if they could turn back the clock they would.
What on earth are you going on about. Its all going great!!!
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@lifer - I don't recall exactly you can look up the chart I posted. Clearly the IDF and their systems track the missile launches. The IDF publish on twitter etc and the siren alarms are logged. Various blogs and forums discuss the amount of missile launches and siren warnings.
Guardian reports 300,000 Iraqi's have fled the ISIS Jihadists and 40,000 risk death or dying from thirst as they are stranded on a mountain top.
So where do people stand on this ?
[url= http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/06/40000-iraqis-stranded-mountain-isis-death-threat ]ISIS in Iraq[/url]
That's a bit unfair binners, the Middle East Peace Envoy is too busy throwing expensive parties to have time to place himself in a war zone.
He's also too scared.
Have you not seen his latest wheeze Ernie?
[url= http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/aug/02/tony-blair-gas-pipeline-italy ]Just when you think you can't hate the money-grubbing charlatan more, he pulls something else out of the bag[/url]
Jambalaya - we're all agreed. Its a shite state of affairs. Yet another tragic chapter in the present sorry Middle East saga.
But I've asked you this before, and you've never seen fit to answer me: what on earth are the we in the west supposed to do about it? We've hardly covered ourselves in glory with our interfering, have we? Its all been an unmitigated disaster!
Syria is a war zone between a bunch of hardline Islamic nut-jobs (who are rich and tooled up to the teeth), and an equally psychotic dictator (also rich and tooled up to the teeth, and backed by Russia). It was our stupidity that created the chaos in Iraq in the first place, by toppling that particular psychotic dictator, which went really really well. The whole region is ablaze with proxy wars being played out by rival factions, funded by the Saudi's or Iran, or the Americans, or whoever's getting their oar in this week. Libya is the latest to dissolve into factional anarchy
So... what exactly do you suggest we do? That won't just make everything even worse?
And what do you see as the least worst outcome? Because none of the outcomes look particularly palatable.
Well, except the preference I've already expressed, which is surely the only solution we'll inevitably reach.....
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So the Middle East Peace Envoy isn't just busy partying, he's also busy making staggering amounts of even more money from dodgy deals ?
Well I guess the Middle East can wait and be left on the back burner until the Middle East Peace Envoy gets a bit of spare time to deal with it.
Sorry Jambalaya - not my place to back up your claims. That chart is worthless.
@lifer - IMO the chart is genuine, I posted its sometime ago having looked it up. Clearly the IDF and their systems track the missile launches. The IDF publish on twitter etc and the siren alarms are logged. Various blogs and forums discuss the amount of missile launches and siren warnings. The UK government spoke about the amount of missile attacks the Israelis had been subject to before July. @gonzy and others reference the kidnap as being the reason for the conflict but the Israelis have consistently said its about the tunnels and the missiles.
@gonzy, well the BBC reports I see are 80% footage from Gaza and 20% commentary from Israel. The only Hamas commentary I see is from their leader who is in Qatar. I would strongly suspect no one form Hamas in Gaza will show their face on TV nor indeed even meet journalists as they will give away their whereabouts and/or confirm their identity to the IDF.
As an aside to your lies lies lies post the Israeli strategy in the event of kidnap is to ensure the kidnappers cannot get to a safe place even if that means endangering the captive. I think there is a possibility he was killed along with his captors by Israeli fire even if he was taken alive which is questionable as they where attacked by a suicide bomber wearing an explosive belt.
It's a genuine chart, for sure. Axis and everything.
The figures used to create it, however...
I've not seen one report to suggest Hamas took responsibility for the alleged kidnapping.
Ask the people in these countries Iraq , Syria , Lybia etc if things are better now or were they better before. It might have been bad but nothing can compare to this. Ime pretty sure if they could turn back the clock they would.
I've worked with 3 Iraqi scientists and 1 Kurd, all of whom were in Iraq when it kicked off in 2003.
None of whom blame the Americans for the country devolving into chaos, they blame the Saudis and think that the American invasion was their only chance of ever having a normal functioning democracy. Hundreds of thousands of people were murdered under Saddams rule and that's not including casualties from the Iran-Iraq war. To say that what is happening now is worse than the combined effects of that war and Saddams genocidal campaign of murder and torture is a half-truth at the very least. When you count all of Saddams wars with his neighbors and his massacres the death toll is well over 1 million+.
People forget that.
@lifer - all that info I posted is from the IDF including videos I've watched from aircraft including material and in a number of cases backed up by journalists. As far as I am aware no journalists have witnessed casualties on any of these sites as they are forbidden from travelling to them. I would imagine if you had been following the conflict carefully you would have known this. You seem to have a deny everything approach here.
I have total confidence that the IDF is releasing correct data for missile launches, iron dome responses etc.
Someone quoted a statistic about 90% of Israelis living in the cities, I imagine that's because that is where they are safe and protected by iron dome. Iron dome tracks likely landing areas for missiles and shoots down the ones which will hit a city/town, so it's safer to live in one.
no two countries with a Greggs have ever gone to war with each other
Too fat lazy and ****less to kick off. Hmm, not a bad thing really. Maybe the idea could be exported. But do Greggs do kosher and halal?
@Tim, interesting. I worked with an Iraqi (he was the sole compnay representative in the country) who said life under Sadam was terrible but the country was under a degree of control however unpleasant and after he was deposed the situation was far worse and he sadly correctly predicted the infighting which would follow and gravely feared the day the Americans would leave.
Jambalaya, I guess it depends on who you speak to. Academics were repressed so they dislike Saddam more than others I guess.
The deaths caused by Saddam far far outweigh that of Isis, people forget how ferocious the Iran-Iraq war was. It included WW1 levels of destruction and trench warfare.
jambalaya FFS!!! You go on and on and on with your constant whataboutery on every Israel thread, about ISIS and Syria. So this is a thread about Syria and ISIS
So I'll ask you yet again, but it really is getting repetitive, and boring now .... what on earth do you suggest anyone does about it?
I'm genuinely interested, as you seem so exorcised about the subject, what do you propose? Any answers?
But do Greggs do kosher and halal?
er...no...cue the start of another conflict in the "democratic" state of Binners!!
These are the 'moderate' rebels which the Obongo administration wanted to (and did) arm.
Primarily Wahhabist / Salafist Arabs and brainwashed young lads (and a few girls) from Europe, bankrolled by wealthy Emirates businessmen and preachers (ISIS even have their own glossy brochures) with the full backing of Amerika and Isreal.
The whole Middle East thing was orchestrated from the beginning by Washington, the Federal Reserve, and the Military Industrial Complex. Perpetual world war is great for business; oil prices go up, weapons get sold etc.
What is scary about this whole thing is the current reignition of the Cold War with Russia. The mainstream media is keeping a hell of a lot of info about Ukraine under the radar, bar the usual anti-Ruskie propaganda.
A little-publicised bill is currently going through the US Senate which would pave the way for a military conflict with Russia, which the whole of Europe would be drawn in to via NATO.
Decimated Europe = good for US business.
History is full of cases of psychopathic / sociopathic leaders. The problem with our present time is that we truly believe, in our heart of hearts, that we have 'changed'.
👿
@gonzy and others reference the kidnap as being the reason for the conflict but the Israelis have consistently said its about the tunnels and the missiles.
If you are going to so blatantly rewrite history Jambalaya then at least have the decency to wait more than just one month to do it.
[url= http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/.premium-1.602235 ]Netanyahu on murders of three Israeli teens: Hamas is responsible and Hamas will pay[/url]
In the entire article in the Israeli newspaper there is plenty of mention of retribution but not a single mention of rockets or tunnels.
Quote :
[i]Peres says Israel's retribution will be harsh; other members of Israeli government call for tough responses
Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said Monday evening that "Hamas is responsible, and Hamas will pay."
Alongside this heavy sorrow, we are determined to punish the wicked terrorists with a strong hand.
Right-wing members of the Israeli government called for the destruction of Hamas following the discovery of the bodies of the three kidnapped teenagers on Monday.
"This tragic ending must also be the end of Hamas! The nation is strong and ready to absorb [attacks] for the sake of striking a mortal blow against Hamas," said Deputy Defense Minister Danny Danon (Likud).
"[W]e have to destroy the homes of Hamas activists, wipe out their arsenals everywhere, and stop the flow of money that directly or indirectly keeps terror alive," Danon added.
The government of Israel must declare a war to the death on Hamas, which is responsible for the murders, and return to the policy of assassination."[/i]
There will be none of that democracy nonsense when I'm running the planet (not long now). I'll be making Ghengis Khan look like Nick Clegg
There will be plentiful delicious, if slightly greasy, pastry products though. So everyone's happy 😀
These are the 'moderate' rebels which the [b]Obongo [/b]administration wanted to (and did) arm.
hmmm
@binners I do not have an answer to ISIS, not one which doesn't involve a military commitment on a huge scale which is not going to happen. I personally think Iraq is being abandoned, the scale of death and destruction will be a multiple of that seen in Syria (170,000). I just want to see what all those who are so vocal and focused on Israel and Gaza have to say about this situation which is many many times more grave for the region's population.
As I posted IMO the West will stand firm on Israel and Saudi as/when the ISIS threat comes but they are "kicking the can down the road" until that time. In the meantime 100,000's of people are going to die in sectarian violence.
@Tom yes you are right on the Iran / Iraq war in terms of casualties but that was primarily a military conflict I believe (7 years long I think) so whether you say Saddam was responsible for those deaths I don't know. I think ISIS has killed less people than the Syrian government but is far more dangerous given their pan-region objectives and the number of casualties for which they are responsible may well surpass those in Syria and it could happen fairly soon.
@binners there is no "better" system than a benevolent dictatorship. Certainly cuts out all the government bureaucracy.
I'll go along with Totalitarianism in exchange for pastries. Providing there is good quality whipped cream.
@Tom yes you are right on the Iran / Iraq war in terms of casualties but that was primarily a military conflict I believe (7 years long I think) so whether you say Saddam was responsible for those deaths I don't know. I think ISIS has killed less people than the Syrian government but is far more dangerous given their pan-region objectives and the number of casualties for which they are responsible may well surpass those in Syria and it could happen fairly soo
Mate, something like 600,000 civilians died in the first round of the Iran-Iraq war. My point however is that I don't think the Americans can be blamed for the current round of destruction, if anything the level of destruction now is no worse than it was before. The blame for what is going on lies firmly with the Saudis and certain groups within Iraq. You might have a point about the long term danger of Isis though.
A little-publicised bill is currently going through the US Senate which would pave the way for a military conflict with Russia
I think you owe it to us to publicise it just a [i]little[/i] more than it has been. Even just providing a link to a deranged article on the website of a tinfoil-hatted racist would do...
EDIT: [url= http://www.globalresearch.ca/preparing-for-war-with-russia/5393375 ]Here's one...[/url]
Are their BB's still rubbish?
As I posted IMO the West will stand firm on Israel and Saudi as/when the ISIS threat comes but they are "kicking the can down the road" until that time. In the meantime 100,000's of people are going to die in sectarian violence.
I think you're right on that score. ISIS will carry on entrenching its brutal caliphate. Ignoring the supposed government of Iraq. As Sharon was fond of saying... facts on the ground. And the west will do nothing because it can't. Its installed a divisive sectarian regime which is looking less palatable by the day, so it doesn't want to give it any more support. The west is indeed washing its hands of Iraq. The Irony of it all being, that they've created exactly the terrorist training ground they wanted to destroy in Afghanistan, and might have been able to do if they hadn't been pointlessly distracted with Iraq. There was one, now there's two. Result!!!!
But I don't think ISIS are daft enough, no matter how fanatical they are, to go anywhere near the Israli or Jordanian border. Because the second they do, the Israli air force will unleash something that would make Rumsfelds Shock and Awe look like a provincial fireworks display
There will be plentiful delicious, if slightly greasy, pastry products though.
slightly greasy i can handle as it would mean that they are soft enough to bite...Binners have you tried some of the pasties they bake at the Rawtenstall branch of Greggs? you could knock an Israeli tank out with one!!
if you want to rule the world Binners you need to get your administration in order first...make sure there is a set standard of baking quality/practice for all Greggs outlets!
I personally think Iraq [s]is being[/s] [i]has been[/i] abandoned
Gonzy - My own personal Sharia law will deal harshly with those responsible for inadequate consistency in sausage rolls
The UN are "extermely concerned" regarding reports that 40 children where killed as a direct result of action by ISIS and that a further [b]25,000[/b] are at risk.
I was not aware of this history until I read the piece below
[url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-28663926 ]BBC News: UN reaction to ISIS[/url]
[i]Many Muslims and other groups view Yazidis as devil worshippers
There are estimated to be around 500,000 Yazidis worldwide, most living in Iraq's Nineveh plains
In August 2007 jihadists attacked Yazidi villages in Nineveh, killing between 400 and 700 people[/i]
@gonzy perhaps we can agree on the fact that the invasion of Iraq should never have happened and that the population there is paying a dreadful price for this misguided intervention.
Personally I'd place a good bet, judging by his track record that Saddam would have killed at least as many people as Isis by now.
