[Closed] Is my only option a Mac?

Why do yours have a short life expectancy? A good laptop can easily last 5+ yrs if pushed hard and looked after, and double that for lighter duties but still looked after.

I have a laptop that must be 15 years old now, still works fine. What are you doing to them? 😉

IBM Thinkpads last a long time IME.

ever used a Mac before? if you don't like win8, you prob won't like the Mac learning curve. I find macs a pita...

there are plenty of well built windows based laptops around. if you throw Mac level amounts of money at one, you'll have a much better specced and solidly built windows laptop compared to a mac, and you can always drop win 7 on it if you insist...

Dell's here that last really well, win 7 still available. A mac is just the same bits put together in a shiny box 🙂
What exactly are you doing to it?

I suppose your other options are a quality windows laptop e.g. Lenovo or business level HP and installing ClassicShell or Start8 to make Win8 bearable, or installing Mint or Ubuntu if those do what you need.

Our 6 yr old £300 laptop is the only computer in the house, apart from the tablet I'm using now. It gets used and in the case of my 6 yr old - abused on a daily basis. It has a key missing now but is otherwise perfect. What on earth are you doing? 🙂

You can still get Windows 7, so you do have options. Don't understand the short life.

Can't get on with Macs either. Just can't get on with the OS operating system so if you do go the Mac route have a play before you commit.

Bear in mind there are some fantastically made Win powered Ultrabooks whose spec generally spank that of any Mac and are generally cheaper.

Cheers

Danny B

You using them in the bath?

Regardless of manufacturer, you should be getting more life out of them.

A mac is just the same bits put together in a [s]shiny[/s]brushed aluminium box

But in terms of laptop longevity, I generally treat mine roughly flying all the time and working in the field, and the MBA I'm using now has lasted the longest of mine.

There is, of course, nothing to stop you putting your existing copy of W7 on any new laptop you buy, Macs included, assuming you can get all the drivers.

In all honesty I take good care of them, they only come away with me on short jobs and stay on the desk the rest of the time.

These are the answers I was hoping for as spending a grand on a computer has me nearly in tears. That's my envy rim funds gone in a heartbeat. 🙂

Macbooks are very well made compared to a normal laptop eg they run much cooler thanks to the solid case. I rarely hear or feal the fan on mine whereas my old Toshiba laptop is blowing like a trooper all the time. As for OSX, I think Win 7 is way better, so my ideal machine would be a MBP with Win7 on it.

In all honesty I take good care of them

the 3rd going kapput in 3 years

[img] [/img]

[quote=mactheknife ]In all honesty I take good care of them, they only come away with me on short jobs and stay on the desk the rest of the time.
These are the answers I was hoping for as spending a grand on a computer has me nearly in tears. That's my envy rim funds gone in a heartbeat.
Buy a desktop PC then and cheap laptop for when your out?

As mentioned above, throw Macbook level cash at a Windows machine and you'll get a quality device that'll last years. The new ultabooks are worth a look.
Also, I think the new update to Widows 8, Blue, might address some of your user experience issues of Win 8.

Jamie, I know 😮 if I knew the problem I would fix it. Trust me.

Ok then, next question. As I want the next one to last are there any manufacturers or models that are generally accepted as a better standard. I don't intent to go to PC World so happy to order online.

As laptops in my house appear to be disposable items at the moment with the 3rd going kapput in 3 years

You need to figure out what you are doing with them that's causing so much damage.

Something to consider - more expensive laptops (such as this Lenovo) have a metal frame inside, that helps to stop the laptop flexing when you handle it and pick it up by the sides etc. This flex can cause tiny cracks in things and end up damaging it. The heavier the laptop the worse this is.

Also - they may be getting overly hot somehow. Your house may be especially dusty or something, or you use them where they can't be properly venilated like on a duvet say.

What do you mean by 'kaput' anyway?

piece is software from hell

Just because it's new, doesn't mean it's bad. Get used to it and you will have one less problem. It works fine.

As I want the next one to last are there any manufacturers or models that are generally accepted as a better standard

No, but there are different standards within each manufacturer's range. But they aren't that good at telling you which ones are the well made ones. I'd guess that the more expensive ones are the ones with the metal chassis, which should be more durable.

I generally buy dell laptops. I keep them for 3 years then pass them on. Generally they'll do a few more years.

I had to get a MacBook for work. As a windows user I have to say it's a hateful piece of crap. A view shared by the 3 of us that have had to use the horrible things.

Windows 8 is lovely by-the-way, well it is if you have a touch screen. Not tried it without.

I would buy from a shop, if it died in 3 years I would take it back in

Myself and the family have had numerous dell laptops over the years, they last and work very well. We also exclusively use them at work and they're very reliable. My Precision laptop is 6 years old and going strong - that's been hammered and abused. My home desktop is a Dell GX620 (ex work) from 2006 and is still going strong - pimped with a dual core processor and a decent graphics card recently, it still runs Lightroom and Photoshop very happily.

If you can get your head around models & specs, then as I always recommend, the dell outlet is great. The business machines are good for outright robustness, but the consumer machines are good too.

[url= http://outlet.euro.dell.com/Online/InventorySearch.aspx?brandId=7&c=uk&cs=ukdfh1 ]home outlet[/url]

[url= http://outlet.euro.dell.com/Online/InventorySearch.aspx?brandId=3&c=uk&cs=ukdfb1&l=en&s=dfb ]business outlet[/url]

I've never had a laptop die on me. My other half is using my 6 yr old Toshiba. I have an ex-work 8 yr old tiny 11" Sony Viao still going as a spare. My work laptop is a 5 yr old Dell.

Yeah. Just get a Mac.
You'll spend a few days getting used to it, then the next time you have to use a mouse on Windows you'll realise how cumbersome it really is.
I think it's W7 we have at work and the whole experience of using it from the cheap bits of plastic you have to touch to use it to the crashing and over complicated illogical software is truly nasty.

All good advice and thanks for steering me away from an impulsive Mac buy.

On 2 of them they just died and when they were checked out by the shop I was told the motherboard had gone. The last died last night and I'll have to have it looked at to determine the problem. lights are going on but no screen and no noises to indicate anything is working inside.

Cheers all for the help, much appreciated.

footflaps, I dream of kit working that long here. 😯

Could a 'spiky mains supply' - cause premature laptop death ?

The other thing is what are you using it for?
I do all my heavy lifting (video editing/3d simulation/Data stuff) on my desktop, not that expensive and just keep baning more/bigger discs into it, more ram and swap the MB/GC/Chip every few years. Small incremental spends and good performance.

after that the laptop does the mobile stuff and some hard work when I need it, couple of Dell's in the house working fine.

It's just for general family browsing along with office based report writing.

The good lady uses Photoshop for her work but not too often. That's about it really.

You're a delicate flower, aren't you Pete 🙂

5+ year old laptop here. it's been dropped countless times and probably as a result the battery connection is a bit flakey now. Other than that it works perfectly still. cost me £300.

Glad I didn't waste my money on a mac 😉

Dell seem pretty reliable. I manage a few IT departments at work and we all use Dells. given the few thousand we have in use we have very few issues and w7 is very stable.

You using them in the bath?

Regardless of manufacturer, you should be getting more life out of them.

I use my chromebook in the bath. Part of the reason I'm always posting on here!

Could a 'spiky mains supply' - cause premature laptop death ?

I was just wondering that. - But I would imagine the PSU would die 1st.

I think the most use we can be here to the OP is to find out WTF he's doing to kill laptops in a year. Dude - what happens to them!?

EDIT: I'm starting to think this might be the only option:
[img] [/img]

I was told the motherboard had gone.

Ah, the old motherboard gone excuse for not finding the real reason.

Laptops are pretty immune to power supply spikes as they charge from their DC power supply which will smooth any spikes out.

Some things that might actually cause a MoBo to fail:

Heat/heat cycles - blocked vents/poor design/soldering [Apple I'm looking at you here]
Flex - holding [url= http://www.homestarrunner.com/sbemail.html ]lappy386[/url] by e.g. the front edge only and letting the screen flex the bodywork when lifting
Other roughness - not opening the screen from the middle/both sides at once, not avoiding all sharp shocks [even a rough [url= http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/hide-and-seek/201302/how-deal-insults-and-put-downs ]put-down[/url] ] from a coupla cm

I know exactly how you feel! When I worked for a blue chip I had expensive IBM and then Lenovo laptops which were bombproof. I then entered the world of budget laptops and they drove me mad with reliability issues - plus it feels like Windows has gone backwards since XP. Last year I bought a MacBook Pro and it just works! I put more RAM in because it never felt as fast as I was expecting and now I can't really fault it. Took a while to get used to it but I'm now using OS X, Windows 7, Windows XP and a CNC specific Linux version on a daily basis and swap between them fine.

I have Windows XP running in VMWare (parallel operating system) for the engineering software that doesn't run on a Mac and can just four finger swipe between operating systems.

NB: These are the views of a non-IT person!

Just in the interests of balance...
My Macbook went kaput! (well the battery did)
Got it replaced/
My Macbook went kaput again (well the battery again)
...
It's now EOL well before the point I'd expect it to be. Superb build quality - new batteries don't line up properly with the rest of the case if you've removed the bracket to change the RAM chips.

My Vaio lasted best part of a decade before I sold it, and my Netbook I bought about the same time as that Macbook. I use that Netbook every other day still.

My £500 HP laptop is still going almost 6 years on. It's been all over the shop and been banged about and stood on. The battery is dead after the humidity in Oman trashed it but I just use it plugged in. I would have another HP for sure.

But to answer the question: yes.

Tuff book is the solution if you're realy hard on your laptop. Otherwise don't use your laptop placed on cusions / bed duvets e.t.c. as is causes overheading issues due to vent holes blocking up and the thermal stress can cause conection to brake on the fine pitch chip sets many of which are attached via ball grid array of solder. If you know which chip set is dodgy and the laptop if throw away it can be worth having a go at reflowing the solder to repair. I've never tried this but a college at work who used to do this as part of his business sweared by it.

Regarding power supplies aome laptop are mains earth refference, these easily idenfied bu a micky mouse connection to the power brick, most have a floating ground and are electrically isolated from the mains supply, either way after the transformer there is a swich mode voltage regulator to smooth out the power to the laptop. I'm a long way from an expert here but I think as long as you're not recuiveing really big spikes from a near by lightning strike whcihc would damage the power supplu as well you should be ok.

I got some of those vent ball things that Velcro under the laptop. They give a decent gap underneath so there's a better airflow.

Take a look at a Thinkpad - the X series are well built and portable. They aren't the cheapest of laptops, but they do last very well, and will save you from having to spend more than you need to on a proprietary system.

As for OSX, I think Win 7 is way better, so my ideal machine would be a MBP with Win7 on it.

I currently run XP under Parallels, but it's a poor second choice and runs very slow. Disk access seems to be poor under Parallels.

Got a 6 year old MacBook here, still runs perfectly and not got a single issue with it.

Only upgraded in the last six months with a MacMini as a desktop, laptop is still in regular service but lacked the oomph that I requires as my needs have moved on. Can't see it going anywhere for quite some time, although the battery life on the new MacBook Air has me tempted…

I'm on my first MacBook here...it isn't perfect and I've been back to the 'genius' bar twice (with associated frustrations with the appointment system). I've also had to reformat / reintsall my hard disk on another occasion (which is all the genius bar did the first time it screwed up). I'm not convinced that they are any more reliable than windows laptops in general but I would't buy either without at least a 2 year warranty as I've learnt that all laptops can go wrong.

danielgroves - Member
Got a 6 year old MacBook here, still runs perfectly and not got a single issue with it.

Only upgraded in the last six months with a MacMini as a desktop, laptop is still in regular service but lacked the oomph that I requires as my needs have moved on. Can't see it going anywhere for quite some time, although the battery life on the new MacBook Air has me tempted…

Six years is nothing, I have a thirteen year old thinkpad still in regular use. Thing is nails. In fact I reckon you could use it as a hammer so maybe it's tougher than nails. 😆

If your macbook from six years ago is still on its original PSU and case, it must have had a very easy life. Mine's on about it's third or fourth palm rest and second or third charger. No strain relief on wire = guaranteed failure, and everybody i know who actually uses a macbook out and about has had the same issue. Plus the hinge is on its way out, fan keeps getting blocked, display has lost a lot of its brightness etc.

That's not to say it's a bad computer, it's not, it's really good. But it's not really sturdy. The only reason I keep it going is because it was expensive, I have all my stuff installed on it and I like the keyboard.

I have a MacBook Pro, a nice bit of kit, that said I installed Ubuntu for my neighbour (50+) and he's really happy with it, it's like windows used to aspire to be before it got all "new"

If your macbook from six years ago is still on its original PSU and case, it must have had a very easy life. Mine's on about it's third or fourth palm rest and second or third charger. No strain relief on wire = guaranteed failure, and everybody i know who actually uses a macbook out and about has had the same issue. Plus the hinge is on its way out, fan keeps getting blocked, display has lost a lot of its brightness etc.

Those people clearly don't look after their kit then. It's all original, bar an SSD and maxing out the RAM. It most definitely hasn't had an easy life either… I take it pretty much everywhere with me and push it pretty hard.

I'm not saying 6 years is a [i]lot[/i], but it's certainly good. Still in near daily service, so who knows how long I'll still be using it for?

Got first mac, a macbook ( white one) 7 years ago, still going strong. Got a mac mini in 2009 likewise (I did put more memory and a bigger hd in recently though). I find the OS and whole usability just light years ahead of Microsoft rubbish which id been using since the early 80's. In my experience dell / HP kit used to die in 2 or 3 years. Sony Viao lasted well but cost same as a mac and the Microsoft OS was out of date within 2 years, compare that to MacBook above which was bought by wife at the same time.

If you buy a mac and don't like it you can sell it, used windows machines are worthless.

My laptop (Sony Vio) is 8 yrs old and going okay still - never broken. Saying that, my weapon of choice is my work Mac Air. Beautiful. Could start it up, check email, BBC and STW website, shut it down and make a coffee in the time the laptop takes to think about starting up and then proceeding to make the latest set of software updates...

fwiw my mates macbook broke at the charger port and it would cost pretty much a new macbook to fix it as it required the motherboard changing or something. Better to just get a sturdy windows one with as little non-proprietary components as normal. Should've been a £1-2 fix on a normal laptop!

johndoh - Member
My laptop (Sony Vio) is 8 yrs old and going okay still - never broken. Saying that, my weapon of choice is my work Mac Air. Beautiful. Could start it up, check email, BBC and STW website, shut it down and make a coffee in the time the laptop takes to think about starting up and then proceeding to make the latest set of software updates...

The modern laptops I have all boot/open fairly fast, I don't really bother shutting down much these days - just at airports really.

I'd be looking at a high-end Lenovo or Toshiba: proper metal chassis and well thought out specs. HP are quite nice but I have ethical issues with them, having worked at their Bangalore site for a couple of weeks.

Avoid Dell, as the components aren't necessarily designed to work well together at a driver level. Our Dell Precisions (£3500 with the spec I get) don't like being on the road for very long before suffering from rover SD1-esque trim failure issues (disk drives that fall out of the bays, screen bezels that disintegrate, power cords that magically lose their insulation or in one case, suffer random spontaneous combustion). Mine has taken to ejecting its batery on being moved from the coffee table to my lap. There's also a big likelihood that once they go private the hardware business will be wound down to nothing or flogged off for pence.

Windows 8 is indeed pants, but the latest update with a proper start menu and non-hidden off button is supposedly quite good. With most manufacturers though you can still spec windows 7.

Macs are really very cool. If I could, I'd have one for work but ist verboten 🙁

Sony Vaios seem to last forever. I hate my mac pro, i wish it would die so I have an excuse to buy a new Vaio.

Conversely in this household Macs last an average of 6-8 years, Vaios last <6 months.

Meh

I don't really bother shutting down much these days - just at airports really.

Why would you need to shut it down at an airport?

Another +1 for buying a good quality Dell/Lenovo business class machine. If two motherboards have gone (even on cheap machines) you have either been very unlucky, or your doing something bad to them.

A big problem with lower grade PC's is amount of junk installed when you buy them, which can cause problems and poor performance. With the business class machines, they come with less junk and sometimes a copy of the OS which allows the machine to be reinstalled cleanly.

I recently bought a new PC for use with my TV, and until all the junk was removed, it was unusable (that's not overstating it). I don't think you have problems like that with a Mac.

Although I can see some advantages with Apple, unless AppleCare covered 5 years, there is no way i'd consider one, they are just too expensive to risk having a brick after 3 years if something fails.

Why would you need to shut it down at an airport?

danielgroves - Member
Those people clearly don't look after their kit then. It's all original, bar an SSD and maxing out the RAM. It most definitely hasn't had an easy life either… I take it pretty much everywhere with me and push it pretty hard.

I'm not saying 6 years is a lot, but it's certainly good. Still in near daily service, so who knows how long I'll still be using it for?

I simply can't believe that a Macbook which has seen any real use is still on its original palm rest. That and the PSU cable fraying dangerously are known issues which Apple replace for free. It is not from maltreatment, they are design flaws, same with the hinge cracking. The plastic goes brittle over time, it is not strong enough.

And again, it isn't just me with these issues, we have 5 in my family, they ALL suffer the same issues and some have had a very easy life never leaving the house. All the ones I see at work are the same also. Apple value aesthetic over functionality, and this is one negative aspect of that.

"The motherboard's gone" is tech speak for "it's broken and we don't know why." The last one I had on the bench with a PC World-diagnosed motherboard fault needed a new fan.

Motherboards of a certain vintage were prone to failure due to a very widespread batch of faulty capacitors; google "capacitor plague". This might have been a cause of failure on your earlier laptops, but a modern board shouldn't be affected in this way.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitor_plague

The first flawed capacitors were reported in September 2002.
...

As of 2013 the problem seems to have receded, with the last major surge of complaints being reported in 2010.

http://www.badcaps.net/forum/

@retro in the family (inc adult kids) we have 4 MacBooks, the eldest 6yr old machine has had one new battery, frayed power cable and damaged palm rest, the 5 yr old machine had a new power supply and the two MacBook,pros have had no issues. No issues with mac mini. Overall Im happy enough with that and the other benefits far outweigh these issues, IME the apple batteries have lasted much better than cheap windows laptops which is fair enough as they cost less.

My 2 failed MacBook batteries lasted about 18 months and 6 months respectively. And I mean complete failure. Right down to 0% charge, not just degradation. Unplug (or just knock) the power lead and on a good day it may last as much as 2 sec before instant power-off.

Vaio lasted about 8 years at which point I sold it. I know the guy used it for another year before sticking it on eBay.

Would never buy Dell. Plasticky rubbish that weighs a ton.

Lenovo Thinkpad is on my shortlist for when the eeePC dies, and that's outlasted the Macbook (and it's replacement batteries) by a factor of 2 so far.

Hi guys, just reading all this with interest. As was painfully aware from my first post I am pretty clueless when it comes to the inner workings of computers. And thankfully this hasn't turned into a Mac / Windows bitch fest.

Luckily this week I only have to submit a couple of invoices which I can do at the library so I'll be doing a fair bit of research on high end business laptops as advised. Doubt I'll go down the Mac route just yet :-).

We all have Dell laptops at work. Have to same I'm quite impressed with them. They run hotter than a MBP, but are lighter and seem fine to me. Not that I really care what's under hood....

That and the PSU cable fraying dangerously are known issues which Apple replace for free. It is not from maltreatment, they are design flaws, same with the hinge cracking. The plastic goes brittle over time, it is not strong enough.

Thats a simple misunderstanding then, mine is the first of the aluminium unibodies. They don't suffer from the issues the plastic ones had. 🙂

danielgroves - Member

That and the PSU cable fraying dangerously are known issues which Apple replace for free. It is not from maltreatment, they are design flaws, same with the hinge cracking. The plastic goes brittle over time, it is not strong enough.

Thats a simple misunderstanding then, mine is the first of the aluminium unibodies. They don't suffer from the issues the plastic ones had.

Ah, I see - you said 6 years old which would make it a plastic one. You're right, those are a lot better built - unfortunately the strain relief on the cables is still not good even on the brand new ones, and those are almost completely non-serviceable as well. Can't even change the disk or RAM. Planned obsolescence.

non-changeable discs and RAM is acceptable, unless maybe you're using it as a desktop replacement, with shed loads of video files etc.

non-replaceable batteries is definitely planned obsolescence, imho.

If the battery will tank within 3 years, then I see the whole laptop as a throw away device, not something that might fetch a good price on ebay. In which case... buy cheap, and dispose in 2-3 yrs.

Typing this from my BBC Micro, still going strong after 30 years.

Hang on - in Macs you can't change the disk, ram or battery?

FFS!

That's flat out disgraceful, Apple don't deserve a penny of my money or anyone else's.

Hang on - in Macs you can't change the disk, ram or battery?

You can in my MBP.....

CaptJon - Member
Typing this from my BBC Micro, still going strong after 30 years.

Pfft, my Toshiba MSX pwns your BBC Micro

molgrips - Member
Hang on - in Macs you can't change the disk, ram or battery?

FFS!

That's flat out disgraceful, Apple don't deserve a penny of my money or anyone else's.

Only on the Retina and Air models. The MBP is user serviceable. I've changed the HDD to SSD in mine and upgraded the mem.

Hang on - in Macs you can't change the disk, ram or battery?

You can in my MBP

Luckily this week I only have to submit a couple of invoices which I can do at the library so I'll be doing a fair bit of research on high end business laptops as advised.

Rather than spend a load on a laptop get a desktop, they are cheaper, more powerful for the money and much more robust, spend the change on something portable 🙂

oooh, can i get my case fixed FOC on my macbook?

I thought it had cracked from general abuse...

(3.5 year old macbook here, never missed a beat, with no maintenance needed, i.e no disk frag, anti virus, spybot nonsense)

To be honest I can understand the Airs being non user serviceable, when you're going for the absolute smallest possible enclosure, there's going to be some compromises. If you want to upgrade etc, just get a MBP rather than an Air.

So comparing an 8 year old laptop to something new and work supplied is a fair comparison?

oooh, can i get my case fixed FOC on my macbook?

I thought it had cracked from general abuse...

(3.5 year old macbook here, never missed a beat, with no maintenance needed, i.e no disk frag, anti virus, spybot nonsense)

Except that it is cracked and falling apart ?

I've never broken a laptop, always passing on my old models to others who have lesser requirements. My 2001 Dell is still working, having been passed to my mum and then on to my aunt and uncle to use to look at their photos. My 2004 Dell is parked in a cupboard but still working, having been retired because my mum got a tablet. My 2006 Dell gets used in my workshop.

Thinking about it, in the last 13 years the only laptop of mine that has failed, out of 3 Dells and 3 Thinkpads, is an X60 that I sold to a friend and died when he nearly burnt down an airliner.