not yet....
The more I read of this online I think he's acting fraudulently,
I have paid the original amount outstanding of £434.43
They have never gained entry to my home nor have they ever met with me to discuss any form of repayment.
The only notice of Bailiffs attendance I have received is the one that came through yesterday which implied that I owe £351.93.
Simple math says that they are trying to recover an additional £217.93 which I must assume are their charges.
Original debt: £434.43
less payment 13th May: £301.00
26th May visit letter stated: £351.93
less payment 26th May: £134.00
This leaves a "balance" of £217.93 which must be their charges?
now then...
Looking on the National Debt Helpline (Gov. source) it clearly states the following:
For a visit to your home where no entry is made and a list of goods is not made (i.e. a levy is not made)
£24.50 for a first visit
£18.00 for a second visit
No further charges for further visits
well no Levy has been made, no walking agreement has been made, I have no record of any visit apart from yesterdays one has occurred. This all seems to be very untoward and suspect no?
where on earth can these £217.03 charges have come from?
I didn't get a mail Mr Nutt, so i guess you have sorted it.
If you want to read about this , its all on the Shelter website, link below
http://england.shelter.org.uk/get_advice/paying_for_a_home/council_tax/council_tax_arrears
I'm guessing at the moment, there is no liability order and Randalls are just harassing you to pay in full.
They will continue to do this until they get the money in full including any costs they have added on, or the Council tell them you have paid.
They won't negotiate, they won't listen, they just want money, in full, now. They will try to get into your property, and they may try to take your goods.
so the easiest way to deal with this is to pay the bill in full (the full liability, not with additional fees) direct to the Council, or contact the Council to discuss a repayment plan and request they call off Randalls. but tbh if Randalls have been called, this suggests you have not paid what you owe and the Council have called Randalls as you have not paid what you owe...
posted after yours. Mr Nutt, if you have paid the full liability, then you do not owe Randalls anything.
I would suggest you call the Council ASAP Even call their out of hours number.
like i've said Randalls will keep trying to recover the money until the Council tell them to stop, or you give them money
if you have paid the bill in full to the council, you do not owe any further money. and Raqndalls are harassing you
Hi Steve, sorry Its not Randalls its Chandlers Limited, I appear to have paid the Liability of £434.43 but I just don't understand where this additional £217.03 could have come from?!? I paid Chandlers Ltd on their automated payment line I wish I'd paid the council direct!!
chandlers, randalls, they are all the same!
So if you have paid the full Ctax liability to the Council, then you are not liable for anything further, unless its court costs (which it isn't)
you really need to call the Council. it wouldn't be unheard of, for someone to have paid a debt in full, and the bailiffs not be informed.
alternatively, the bailiffs may be trying it on. Tell them to take the debt to court, they won't win.
Alex (& Steve Austin)
He's almost certainly not acting fraudelently and there very definitely WILL be a liabilty order. They can send it to bailifs or carry out any other recovery without the L/O from the magistrates.
If the years charge which has been passed on the bailifs (I'm guessing previous year(s) as we've only just completed our first summons run for 2010 - court date 10/06/2010 - we have just over 1500 accounts having L/O's granted on that day) has been paid in full BEFORE the bailif company made contact, the council are obliged to recall it and the bailif company have no costs incurred to recover.
If you've paid directly to the council AFTER the bailif company have made contact. they will still chase you for fee's.
I have to go to work now....yes, to the Recovery/Bailif dept. Stockport Council.
so they can chase me for the fees? but how can the fees be £217.03 when they've only visited once to put a Notice of attendance through my door?
surely the maximum they can persue is:
For a visit to your home where no entry is made and a list of goods is not made (i.e. a levy is not made)
£24.50 for a first visit
£18.00 for a second visit
No further charges for further visits
that would be the sum total of: £42.50
where could they get this £217.03 from?!? it doesn't make sense!!
I've paid Chandlers £434.43, they have never made a 'Levy' or listed my items etc, I just don't get it!
Moral of the story? Would have been less hassle just to pay your council tax on time?
Hilarious Pawsey_Bear, I do hope you've not been up all night thinking of that.
Can they not charge interest on the debt? That could add up quite quickly, firstly interest on the whole amount, then on the outstanding. But I would guess they have to tell you the rate beforehand?
(Haven't a clue by the way, just adding my two pence as to what the charges [i]could[/i] be)
I don't know, I've never been informed of any interest charges, when I spoke to him (the bailiff) yesterday he said that they were charges for is visit, he later called back when I'd said these charges seem unreasonably high and said that he would knock off £70-80 pounds if I paid in full before 21:00hrs, when I asked for a statement or a formal breakdown of these costs he said he couldn't give it to me as it was "for his eyes only". He also went on to imply that it "sounds like there will be a breach of the peace then" when I said "if you return tomorrow I would want the police to be in attendance", he then said "sleep well and I'll see you in the morning" in a very menacing tone.
I get the impression that his intention was that to cause me as much distress as possible, well he's succeeded in that!
They are a private bailif company, not county court bailifs. They have to go to the county court to be assesed as 'fit and proper' persons to be bailifs and get the court seal on their license before they can be employed by the commercial bailif company.
The company then set their fee's per letter, visit etc.
Dukes and Marstons bailifs charge £125:00 per visit (per bailif) and £150 if they bring a van. It is rare that they will take goods (see previous post on here and email to you "Nulla Bona") but if they do, that visit alone is £150 per person (2 people) and £150 for the van. £450.
One of out bailif company's is based on Merseyside, we're in Cheshire. They wouldn;t even submit tender for the work if they could only charge county court bailif fees.
The council(s) are obliged to ensure that the bailifs they put under contract keep their fees reasonable. I suspect the bailfs would like to charge a whole heap more.
He does however have to give you evidence of how the costs have mounted up.
One other thing you can do is contact the council and ask them for dates of when the initial bill was issued and and when the reminder(s) and summons was sent. They have to prove issue but not receipt ALTHOUGH I am aware that we **sometimes** reset recovery back to reminder stage from summons if somebody kicks up a real fuss. I believe there is yet to be a test case on whether proof of issue and NOT receipt is valid for recovery action. It's an area that councils don't want pushed as if it's ruled proof of receipt is required, that will mean recorded delivery for summons notices and a big increase in costs. That means higher council tax, more people going in to recovery....not really much help to you Mr Nutt but you never know.
I'm now officially late for work.
PS. No, they (council or bailif) can't apply interest to council tax debt.
Check with the CAB. One of the links I read said that they have to provide a breakdown of costs when asked (passed through the letterbox, don't open the door), BUT as always this is the internet - check with real people
I think the general advice here is to disregard anything that contradicts Mr Monksie 🙂
I think it just shows that the whole system is based on an asumption of avoidence (which I have no doubt does happen), rather than the fact that many people can be in hardships or that the system can make mistakes.
I think the whole system is morrally corrupt and frequently targets the most vulnerable.
It is also this kind of actions by the mechanisms of government that contributes to the createan of the "broken socioty" that is much publicised. It is this kind of treatment that leads people to say "fork them if thats how I get treated I will take what I can from now on".
I think it just shows that the whole system is based on an asumption of avoidence
Actually, I think it's the assumption that if you don't contact the council that you are avoiding it.
I don;t know the specific circumstances but I'm sure most councils will accept a 'I'll give you what I can - how about 'x' per month?' it's when there's no communication at all fromt he person owing money that the system just chugs along to the point it has.
And as above - I think private bailiffs can charge pretty much what they like...
Whether he can charge 20 quid for a visit or £150 - he's not actually made a visit yet has he? So what are the charges for?
Actually, I think it's the assumption that if you don't contact the council that you are avoiding it.
See my previous post. IME council’s are disorganised inefficient animals which make wholesale mistakes and cock ups, but will never admit liability and would rather turn their customers into victims in order to cover up. I know the majority of the population will think this is nonsense, but a significant minority have felt the effects of the stupidity and bureaucracy of the "the state", and the quite horrendous impact it can have on your life.
ps. MrNutt, if you can lay your hands on a muckspreader, I would pay the council a visit.
muckspreader? I'm feeling more blowtorch inclined!
well still not a knock at the door, is this usual procedure? I'm going to call them...
not read all this, but ill chip in with my experiences,
same position once, didnt pay, went to court and bailiffs
i paid the council via cheque
bailiff added on £200 as i didnt pay him
i went to the local CAB office
they rang the bailiff company
all sorted, never heard from them again
The council here are pretty reasonable TBF.
Many years ago I was self employed and waiting for money to come in I waited and waited in the mean time I omitted to Pat my C/Tax they sent the letters etc etc When I got the final reminder I rang them they let me pay a nominal sum 20 quid of something as a gesture........and I payed the arrears in full when I got paid.
They will help you if you ring them......
Mr Nutt you need to contact the council asap by phone and follow it up in writing.
well I've just spoken to the Bailiff (on phone) I asked for a breakdown of the charges and he told me the following:
£42.50 Standard fee when passed from Council to Bailiffs (schedule 3 & 5, regulations 14,39,45) "charges connected with distress" (I guess thats how much it costs to distress someone?!?)
then there's a Levy fee of: £26.00
and an attendance fee of £150.00 (so that was his visit yesterday)
he then said (he spoke with quite a different attitude from yesterday) "as you seem a genuine kind of bloke I'll knock off £70.00 if you make the payment today and I'll phone the van and tell them not to come around now cos they've bigger fish to fry anyway"
so I now have to pay £149.43 immediately, which I'm going to do.
so that's me completely cleaned out, my cars ****ed and I can't afford to fix it which means I'm screwed for getting to work (its an hours drive each way). What a horrible shit state of affairs.
So its pay up, then I'm getting straight on to the bastards at Wat Tyler House (Swindon BC head office, oh the irony!) to sort out both this years CT and also any benefits I'm due from last year, whilst I'm at it I'm gonna get on to the Inland Revenue to see if they can give me a rebate (which I think I'm probably owed) and then looking at selling all my worldly possessions, turn into a 15 yr old female chav, get up the duff and then spend the rest of my life on the social!
GGGRRRRRRRRRRRRRHHHHHH!! *gritted teeth*
right then, where's the nearest dairy farm/oxyacetylene store!
Probably the wisest course of action fella, end of the day even if the charges seem excessive I doubt the council would be shipping off debt collection work to people who act illegally...hope you get stuff sorted!
Business concluded but it's never a happy story.
Just in case anybody else is heading toward a similar situation, CALL YOUR C/TAX OFFICE if you even think you may have a bit of a problem. Even if you've not had a bill and are thinking you've got away with it or it will arrive soon. It could be lost in the system and ultimately, if the computer is registering issue and payments not being made, it's going to get messy.
I've just read the comment about CAB and bailifs dropping their fee's and not pursuing.
That's almost certainly because the bailifs for what ever reason have decided not to pursue (although I'd want that confirming by them if I was you) and I very strongly suspect it has very little to do with CAB. They're about as much use when it comes to the nitty gritty of stuff as Christians Against Poverty.
it has very little to do with CAB. They're about as much use when it comes to the nitty gritty of stuff...
But their info. is still good - no?
Mostly staffed by (very well meaning) volunteers with very little specific training in any area but access to a heap of books on various legislations, rules, terms and conditions etc.
I don't doubt they can help in various ways to some degree but the amount of times they've been on the phone to us while they have a customer on another line who have called them urgently because they have a bailif at the door asking us what the customer can do to stop the bailif.
In the first instance, why would I nake my job harder by saying don't answer the door, close all windows and doors AND curtains (they can't do a sneaky valuation of property then) pray you haven't left the car on the drive etc. and in the second instance, shouldn't you already know this if you're a CAB?
Good to see some excellent advice for the OP from those in the know. Not a sterling outcome but sounds as if it's sorted at least.
I was harassed by a debt collection agency for a couple of years. Long story short - basically I bought my way out of my car insurance contract after being messed around for months. I'd paid up and sent through all documentation several times but never got a certificate of insurance.
I got a three day producer from the traffic cops - the insurance co claimed I'd never been insured with them and denied ever having received any money / documentation from me. I faxed through bank statements showing the payment and copies of the letters thanking me for my payment but just came up against a brick wall.
The cops turned up at my work (I drove for a living back then) and shouted the odds in front of my boss and colleagues - called me a liar and much worse.
Eventually the insurance co sent out a temporary cover note for the day I got stopped by the police. Needless to say, after I'd paid my late fees to the police I immediately wanted to cancel my 'non-existent' policy. It was at that point I had to buy myself out of the contract - a one off payment of £100 which I made over the phone under heavy duress.
Two weeks later a letter came through the door demanding "the outstanding balance of £420". Phone calls only resulted in the same demand for cash and a complete denial of any payment from me. I swore at them horribly and vowed they wouldn't get another penny from me.
Another week and the letters started arriving from a debt collecter, threatening all kinds of unpleasantries should I choose not to pay the original sum plus added fees of another couple of hundred quid. I just kept ignoring them all and a year later moved away. The collecters then managed to get a hold of my elderly mother (unbeknownst to me) and threatened to empty her house unless she coughed up, which she did!
That did solve the problem but left me in the same mood as Mr Nutt in terms of considering flame throwers. Had to pay my mum back almost a grand too. GRRRR!
Unrelated rant over, sorry....
"The collecters then managed to get a hold of my elderly mother" - That's well below the belt and I strongly suspect they had no right to even mention the debt. DPA and all that plus it was your (assumed) debt, not your mother's.
I've just got a trace result back which I requested earlier this week. The guy is Spain (I have his rather nice sounding full address), he's getting a bailif warning letter :-}
I have his rather nice sounding full address
It's not got "Galapagar" in it, has it? Much as I like meeting new people...
I've just got a trace result back which I requested earlier this week. The guy is Spain (I have his rather nice sounding full address), he's getting a bailif warning letter :-}
I didn't realise that Spain came under the jurisdiction of Stockport MBC
You think if you move out of the area you are no longer required to pay any outstanding council tax?
I'm trying not to giggle.......no, failed, I truly guffawed :-}
I've just gone back over the thread and I saw your post about owing council tax and being abroad MSP. The bailif will return the account to c/tax after three failed visits and if c/tax can't trace you, they'll let it go for now but they will periodically carry out a new Experian and LOCKTOR trace and if you're located in the UK or overseas, depending on the amount outstanding and the council's policy on recovery, they may begin recovery again on you, Council tax debt is not Statute Barred. It's like murder, never closed.
Just to be clear, I don't owe any council tax, in fact the council gave me a rebate because I had already paid the full years due. After doing this someone has screwed up and tried pursuing me for money that I clearly do not owe, but as is usual with bureaucracy and authority they are unable to understand the reality of the situation, and refuse to use common sense.
well that's them paid off, actually it turns out I've3 just overpaid by about seven quid the following conversation transpired:
Him: "oh hang on, that means we owe you now then"
Me: "you've got until nine o'clock tonight to pay or I'll be around your house at 6:00am then"
Him: "well I'm staying at the Premier Inn at the moment, would you like my room number?"
Me: "nah its ok, you're not my type"
Him: "eer, um"
Me: "well that's our business concluded then, apart from the money you owe me of course"
Him: "yeah, well I did let you off some charges, ask your mates how many bailiffs they know that would do that"
Me: "yeah, very kind of you mate, try not to ruin anyone else's day today eh"
Him: "yeah ok, cheers"
Me: "cheers, have a good day"
FIN.
