so I overlooked payment of my council tax, a total of £433.43.
on the first notice I received from Chandlers Ltd (Bailiffs) I paid £301.00 and gave my mobile number, advised that as a chef I was working very long hours and its hard to meet up but I'd pay ASAP.
just got home after my car broke down on the way to work to discover a note from Chandlers advising that I owe £351.93, I called and questioned this and he said it was charges, I asked for a breakdown/statement of the account and he said that they couldn't send it as it was "for his eyes only", We established that the outstanding Council Tax amounted to £133.xx I said I'd pay that immediately over the phone but that I couldn't cover the charges as I didn't have the cash available and I would also like to see a statement of my account detailing all the alleged costs. He then refused to take payment stating that he would be at my house at 6am tomorrow to take property and that anything taken would be at 15% of its value and that I would be charged £50.00 per item per day whilst its stored until public auction, as well as all the other visiting costs etc.
I remembered that the £300 or so I paid was done on an automated line and I dug out that number and paid off the remainder amount of the Council tax but not his charges.
He then called back and said he'd had another look and would reduce his charges by £70-£80 if I made payment before 9:00pm, I told him that I'd just paid the amount equal to the outstanding council tax and I was very concerned at what seemed his unreasonable charges.
He then continued in his aggressive manner that he would be seeing me at 6am regardless and it was going to cost me even more.
This seems very wrong, I'm in no way flush with cash, very distressed and shocked that a Council Representative would seek to profiteer in such an unscrupulous manner from someone in obvious financial hardship.
STW Massive, what's your views on this? should I be at the door with my 66's tomorrow morning?
he seems to be acting illegally. If you know what time he's going to be coming round I would make myself scarce at that time as they can't break and enter. inform the council of this thug and see if they can put a leash on him as you have paid.
http://www.insolvencyhelpline.co.uk/debt_basics/bailiff-guide.php
http://www.debthelpuk.co.uk/bailiffs.html
Check the law very carefully on this, labour changed the law on balifs a couple of years ago, and they do basicly have cart blanch to force entry. If you feel threatened call the police, and although the police will probably side with the balliff, make sure they record everything that happens so a lawyer can go over it later (if it comes to that).
Agreed, speak to the council ASAP, get them to confirm that the debt is paid. Be incredibly polite with them and I'm sure they'll do what they can. I've had dealings with unpaid council tax and they've always been willing to help/remove fees and the like, especially now you've paid.
You've paid up to the council, ignore him and move on.
Have a look [url= http://www.singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/bailiffs-at-your-door-quick-question ]here[/url]
good advice, but it seems the baliff can use reasonable force to get in, be if forcing his way past you or coming in through an open window. DON'T open the door to them in the morning
Check the law very carefully on this, labour changed the law on balifs a couple of years ago
Got a link for that?
My understanding was that the only people allowed on your property without your consent are the Royal Mail and people with court orders. Bailiff or no, if some thug turned up on my doorstep without a court order I'd be seeking to have the police remove him under trespass laws.
Either way, he absolutely cannot remove property without a court order, so you can add theft to his charges.
If this has changed, it'd be good to know.
How long has this been going on? Seems odd that the council would send in the heavies for a missed payment. Are you sure he's not just a chancer?
From the link above,
"There are fixed fees for bailiffs collecting council tax; for example, from 1 April 1998 fees for the first visit by a bailiff are £20 and £15 for a second visit, where no levy or seizure is made."
I think he's taking the p155, and needs reporting immediately.
My understanding was that the only people allowed on your property without your consent are the Royal Mail and people with court orders.
I can, if I suspect a fire.
"he would be seeing me at 6am" - he's legally bound to come at a "reasonable" time. That sounds unreasonable to me.
I can, if I suspect a fire.
I'm guessing you're a fireman or some such? So, what, you can enter my house without my consent if you 'suspect' a fire? Is there anything you have to do to qualify that? Seems awfully convenient if you want to have a sideline as a cat-burglar.
Anyway. I need to look this up again I think. I'm working from memory and it's a couple of years since I last read up about it all. (We had a run-in with a debt collector chancer of the 'threatening letters / non-existent debt' variety.)
they never did. a bailif cannot break and enter, only the police have that right and then only with a court order.
Do your homework on this, not usual for this kind of thing ime...How many letters have you had from the council? I would do my upmost to keep him out of my house if i were you...it don't ring right to me...and i have been in the same position, albeit 13 years ago, but still, seems well suspect.
Ring the Council direct and pay them!!
I think he is trying to play you, call his bluff, but make a complaint in writing to the council tax office, also report his threatening behaviour to the police, you could always try the clerk of Courts for advice.
Council tax may be different but with any other debt is it not a case of
1 - You don't pay
2 - They chase you for the money and you ignore them
3 - They take you to court and win
4 - You refuse to pay and after 28 days they can send the bailiffs in
So unless you missed all of those steps, it sounds very dodgy
Read the op and spoke to my wife shes a housing officer she says that your unpaid council tax has been passed on to the bailiff as an unpaid debt this is only done after severall letters asking for payment have been sent and all of this information is passed on to the debt company baliffs don't have any legal right to enter your property unless you leave a door or window open but and it's a big bad but they do have the legal right to recover cost from you so the advice is get on the phone to the debt company and sort out some kind of arrangment.
no good going to the council they have passed on this debt and as far as they are concerned its old news and dealt with sorry to be the bearer of bad tidings but thats the way it is from the info surpplied.
Cougar - MemberCheck the law very carefully on this, labour changed the law on balifs a couple of years ago
Got a link for that?
[url= http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article5375668.ece ]http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article5375668.ece[/url]
It's not worth anything if it's not in writing.
Get address of the bailiff and write to them stating that you have paid all arrears. Request that they send a breakdown of their costs and without this you will pay nothing. Don't let them bully you, it's just intimidation.
Don't open the door to them or leave any windows open. Pull the curtains if you like.
that link sais "proposing" did they do it?
Oh and councils screw up all the time on this kind of thing, when I left the UK, I got a rebate of the council tax I had already paid. I got my mail forwarded to my brothers, and when I returned to visit after a few months I opened it to find threatening letters from a bailiff. I phoned the council to explain the situation, and they washed their hands of it saying it was down to the bailiff company. Phoned the bailiff company (squires I think, but that could be wrong) and they got all heavy and demanding, so told them to fork off.
Hope it causes me no problems if I ever return to the UK, but my experience is that bureaucracy has a total failure to apply common sense, and will go to any length to cover up its mistakes. I used to see these stories where some farmer sprayed the town hall with muck and think what a nutter, but I have had several experiences that now makes me understand the frustration, and I dare say if I had access to a muck spreader could see myself doing the same.
Do you have a few well-sized mates who fancy a very early pint in your front garden? Some body who plays rugby and enjoys the scrum? An Aussie-rule footballer? A bare-knuckle cage fighter? 😉
You get the gist, good luck!
I'd suggest to him he seems to have a faulty calculator. First off he can only charge £24.50 for a first visit, £18 for a second visit (usually if he doesn't see any payment), a walk around/listing your items can be £49, and that's it. No more charges can be added. You can in fact claim back charges from a bailiff if he over charges you.
You can also make an official complaint against the bailiff addressed to the court that issued his certificate. Phone the Ministry of Justice Public Register of Bailiffs on 020 3334 6355 and ask which court issued his certificate, then download the complaint form
Whatever you do though if he calls tomorrow, DO NOT OPEN THE DOOR
happen to own any bombers?
MSP > interesting. Ta.
I'm guessing you're a fireman or some such? So, what, you can enter my house without my consent if you 'suspect' a fire? Is there anything you have to do to qualify that? Seems awfully convenient if you want to have a sideline as a cat-burglar.
Normally we have a big white, yes white fire engine with us.
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I could also quote you this...
CHAPTER 5
POWERS OF EMPLOYEES AND CONSTABLES
Powers in emergencies
25 Powers of authorised employees in relation to emergencies
(1) An employee of a relevant authority who is authorised in writing by the authority for the
purposes of this section (an “authorised employee”) and on duty may—
(a) if the employee reasonably believes that a fire has broken out, do anything the
employee reasonably believes to be necessary for the purpose of—
(i) extinguishing the fire; or
(ii) protecting life or property;
(b) if the employee reasonably believes that a road traffic accident has occurred, do
anything the employee reasonably believes to be necessary for the purpose of—
(i) rescuing people; or
(ii) protecting them from serious harm;
Part 2—Fire and rescue services
Chapter 5—Powers of employees and constables
(c) if the employee reasonably believes that an emergency other than a fire or road
traffic accident has occurred, do anything the employee reasonably believes to be
necessary for the purpose of carrying out any function conferred on the authority
in relation to the emergency; and
(d) do anything the employee reasonably believes to be necessary for the purpose of
preventing or limiting damage to property resulting from action taken as
mentioned in paragraph (a), (b) or (c).
(2) An authorised employee may in particular under subsection (1)—
(a) enter premises or a place (by force if necessary);
(b) move a vehicle without the consent of its owner;
(c) force open and enter a lockfast vehicle;
(d) close a road;
(e) stop and regulate traffic;
(f) restrict the access of persons to premises or a place.
In Scotland there's an accelerated process for getting a court order from a council tax debt.
How did you overlook to pay?
Why not pay over 10 months like the majority of us do and then this won't happen again
One of the few debts you can go down for so I wouldn't piss about too much if I were you
He'll park round the corner, get someone to clamp the prick,
Mr Nutt - chuck me an email. He's NOT acting illegally (used to be barca2 but I forgot my log in).
Don't chuck stones at me but I spend half my week sending bailifs after people for unpaid c/tax.
Incorrect/unqualfied but well intended advice on here can cost you a lot of money.
"You've paid up to the council, ignore him and move on." Please don't tell him that.
"My understanding was that the only people allowed on your property without your consent are the Royal Mail and people with court orders. Bailiff or no, if some thug turned up on my doorstep without a court order I'd be seeking to have the police remove him under trespass laws.
Either way, he absolutely cannot remove property without a court order, so you can add theft to his charges.
If this has changed, it'd be good to know.
How long has this been going on? Seems odd that the council would send in the heavies for a missed payment. Are you sure he's not just a chancer?"
Sorry Cougar, for the most part, you're wrong. The court order has been obtained. That would have been the liability order the council obtained at Magistrates Court before they were able to instruct the bailif company.
'caps lock' THE ONLY BAILIFF WHO HAS THE RIGHT TO ENTRY IS A COURT BAILIFF WITH A COURT WARRANT 'caps lock'
its is extremely unlikely that the bailiffs from chandlers has such a warrant nay its impossible as ...can you guess the answer?... yes, he is not a court bailiff, therefore he has no powers of entry.
he could stroll through an open door, or if you are daft enough to let him in, then he is then in. then he can take goods.
i suggest you do not let him in
happy to give you real proper advice, but you'll have to mail me.
Having read some of the well meanng advice on this thread I'd strongly advise everyone to pay their council tax without fail at each and every statutory payment date. You could get yourselves in a whole heap of bother :-}
The court order has been obtained
Do we know this for sure?
bruneep > that's a bit impressive.
yes, the council can't instruct a bailif company, apply for attachment of earnngs, attachment of benefts, place a charge on the property, begin bankruptcy proceedngs or do anythng other than send letters without issuing a summons and obtaining the liability order first. Even after the summons is issued, the council would MUCH prefer to reset a payment plan directly with the liable person.
Council tax may be different but with any other debt is it not a case of
1 - You don't pay
2 - They chase you for the money and you ignore them
3 - They take you to court and win
4 - You refuse to pay and after 28 days they can send the bailiffs in
So unless you missed all of those steps, it sounds very dodgy
is the same as I was thinking - is this the first you have known about a 2010/11 bill or a very late 2009/10?
I seem to recall that the balif has to come on their first visit and make a note of your contents then giving you 7 days to pay the debt before returning to seize the goods. IIRC on the second visit they are allowed to use whatever means they need to use to gain access.
too much time watching daytime tv while searching for a job!!
I'd been signed off work, receiving only SSP, the council were aware of this and said that they would look into it and that I would be eligible for benefits. The council said they would let me know.
Then I got a letter from said firm, I spoke with one of their 'bailifs' a guy who said that I was going to be due benefits and he was surprised that it had got this far, I gave him my mobile number, he never called or left any messages. I then phoned them and paid the £300.00 The next I hear is this letter coming through the door and this guy being threatening today!
I shall not be opening the door, all windows will be closed, I'll be calling the council, the court and perhaps the papers.
I'm astonished that he was claiming £200+ in charges and didn't want to provide any statement or offer an arrangement to pay any charges over the original sum owed.
Good amount of stuff on the web on this but I'm sure you've already seen it. I was amazed to see that once they had been in your house once, even for a pee, that they can then break in again in the future. Although as always with web stuff it is difficult to know if it is up to date with current rules.
I would put CAB top of the list to call as there does seem to be some rules on what they can charge and what they have to tell you
Alex, got your email. You shall have a reply as soon as I get chance.
Magistrates Court will refer you to the council (they have no dealngs what so ever with the bailif company), the council will pass you over to the bailif company, the bailf company will ask you "have you got the money?" and all they want to hear is "yes". Anything else is white noise.
I take no pride in how I earn one half of my living.
cheers for that, can they force entry with a magistrates liability order? what about all the stuff that doesn't belong to me?
They can only gain entry by peaceful means i.e. open door or window (see small window comment in the email I've just sent). Once they've been in, they have carte blanche.
Theoretically, they can only take what's yours but they will assume it's all yours unless you can prove otherwise. They'd REALLY rather not get in to taking goods though as it's loads of hassle, unprofitable in most cases and could end up with it being Nulla Bona (see your email again).
The best bit of advice I can give you is pay him in full if you can but keep all doors and windows tightly closed. Peaceful entry is the undoing of most liable people when bailifs come calling.
Check to see if you submitted a c/tax ben claim. The council should have inhibted the account if you did but then the inhibit would only cover the days where benefit was entitled. If the amount outstanding is for a period where benefit was not entitled, you'll be knackered. C.tax is calculated and charged on a daily basis.
They can't break in but if there is an open door or window that they can get through, they can and will.
My understanding was that the only people allowed on your property without your consent are the Royal Mail and people with court orders.
This is a side note to the rest of the thread but: Royal Mail don't have any special status. What actually happens is that there is an assumption that landowners give an "implied licence" (permission) for people to use their drives/ paths/ doorsteps for legitimate business. This is why posties, meter readers, doorknockers etc are not trespassers. However, the implied licence won't exist if there's something to suggest that it doesn't exist e.g. a sign that says "absolutely no entry" or something. Whatever is reasonable under the circs.
There is no implied licence from the occupier to enter someone's house - but of course if you have a search warrant or a statutory right etc you don't need permission.
So any rude awakenings this morning MrN?
