MegaSack DRAW - This year's winner is user - rgwb
We will be in touch
Hi from Belgium 🙂
Option 4 all the way : best compromise !
i have yet to meet a person who would prefer to live in ignorance
You've yet to meet a person who believes that they'd prefer to live in ignorance. Yet what if not knowing = blissfully unaware and happy with their lot, whereas knowing = life suddenly fallen apart, divorce, custody battles, etc. I'm sure that most people if asked would prefer to know; but are they better off for knowing?
(Speaking hypothetically, so we're clear. I still think the answer to the moral dilemma is whether the affected party is a friend or a complete stranger.)
I'm sure that most people if asked would prefer to know; but are they better off for knowing?
Who knows.
One may live a very happy lie but one is still living a lie
IMHO no one really wants to spend their live betrothed to an adulterer/ complete liar/deceiver. Even the perpetrator knows this hence why they keep it secret.
I think the being involved in it alters it form friend to stranger but yes there will be a cut off point at which we go Mleh to the news
The other person deciding horse as well and truly bolted when her husband was found out having an affair with someone else "bird".
Obviously it didn't since the op has not decided to tell anyone yet.
"Living a lie " - what does that actually mean, and who decides for someone else if they should do so or not?
Human relationships are complex and may have different geometries. Trying to judge them all according to some soap opera set of "morals" will not end well.
He is not a complete stranger in the sense his "bird" is having an affair with her husband but I have worded that poorly.
As for live a lie - really you need that explaining to you?
You live a lie when they no longer hold the vows you took sacred and keep this from you, this really did not need explaining.
Most folk would act differently if they knew their partner was unfaithful
Most folk would want to know
To insinuate that those who disagree with you have soap opera morals is a weak ad hom.
IMHO no one really wants to spend their live betrothed to an adulterer/ complete liar/deceiver.
Aren't there stats suggesting that around 50% of people are unfaithful at some point? I think there must be quite a few people who've found out and decided to still live their lives betrothed to an adulterer. Whether those people are suckers or what who knows.
I used to be very black and white and moralistic on this issue and my opinion has mellowed somewhat (and no I didn't if that's what you're thinking). I think it's the deception/trust bit that's the key though.
retreat to a safe distance, if you found out i'm sure the wife will. Sit back and watch it all blow up in their faces, you walk away, karma intact.
I'm sure if it was me I wouldn't be that calm, you could always tell the "bird" that you are going to tell his wife, watch the pair of them sweat for a bit.
It was the first time I'd seen "soap opera morals" and it made me smile.
I admire people who are prepared to put pragmatism before morals if the world is a better place for it. Singing a royalist anthem even if you are a republican for example:
One couple I know lived in the same house for five years after their divorce bringing up their kids very well (the husband was serial adulterer which provoked the divorce)
I also know couples that have split due to infidelity and the kids have suffered.
And couples that have split and brought their kids up well.
There are no hard and fast rules, I wouldn't want to be the one who rocked the boat if it subsequently sank.
I recall watching Phoenix Nights and seeing a man frantically scrubbing graffiti off a wall that said something along the lines of 'JOHN SMITH S*****D MY WIFE'
Although you would have to replace WIFE with BIRD clearly
Outofbreath- you must be the only other person I know of who's seen 'Mr Jolly Lives Nextdoor'.
Nice quote.
'JOHN SMITH STUFFED MY [s]WIFE[/s] BIRD'
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[b]JY[/b]you are being a bit of a moral absolutist here. I get to talk to people in this situation, have been in this situation myself, and know that infidelity is not only not always a deal breaker, sometimes it can lead to positive changes in a marriage. Often not.
Most marriages are touched by infidelity. To view it as an marriage extinction level event, and encourage strangers to get their pitchforks ready, rather than being a painful point in a relationship, which might be better handled in private, is to make a judgement of a complex situation you may not actually understand.
[quote=Junkyard ]Most folk would want to knowUnless you can back that up with some statistics, it remains an assertion.
I know of couples who've had long and happy marriages despite one of the partners having a brief fling some time in the past. Given how many marriages break up these days, I reckon quite a few would he happy for that trade-off.
I have not said they would all end the marriage i am saying the majority would want to know the partner was cheating/the truth.
Yes scots its an assertion that most folk want fidelity and the truth from their partners. Please forgive this wild stab in the dark [ which is what caused all the problems in the first place].
Most marriages are touched by infidelity
Last stats i saw said 1 in 3 so I accept its alot but its not the majority
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If the OP lives in Inverness his Bird would be having A Highland Fling !
[b]JY[/b] 42% of marriages end in divorce, and then there are the marriages where infidelity does not end marriage. Do the Mathis....
Fact remains you and others are judging what is good for people in a relationship of which you know very little other than the reports of a spurned lover.
infidelity is one thing, we're all human, we make mistakes or have bad/unusual episodes that can make us act differently, but a protracted affair or a series of them is a bit different. Its hardly an indiscretion and I'd have thought its a bad sign for the marriage.Most marriages are touched by infidelity. To view it as an marriage extinction level event,
I'd take her back, but she's definitely now getting any pudding for a while.
If the OP lives in Inverness his Bird would be having A Highland Fling !
Add in this;
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and this
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and it would be a highland fling a ling a ding dong!
Ok [b]DONK[/b], what if one partner has, with no medical or emotional reason, completely lost interest in sex, yet they have a successful child raising companionate marriage? What if the relationship the other person (woman or man) develops, keeps the marriage together?
These things happen. You just don't learn about them. Life and marriage and truth involve white lies and selected fictions. But that's more complex than simple internet morality.
Whilst what you state will undoubtedly occur its an outlier/uncommon in terms of marriage and infidelity
IMHO they still need to discuss this with their partner and I am not sure you can call a marriage successful when its built on a lie that would,quite probably, end it.
JY 42% of marriages end in divorce, and then there are the marriages where infidelity does not end marriage. Do the Mathis.
There are readily available statistics on infidelity rates and the maths do not support the claim that its a majority affected by infidelity- a quick google suggest the figure I gave is still true.
Marriages end for a multitude of reason of which infidelity is but one so you do the maths.
Reference to save some time
http://www.statisticbrain.com/infidelity-statistics/
[b]JY[/b] know many marriages that ended [i]without[/i] infidelity? I don't. Another reason may get tagged to it. And irritreviablel breakdown is often be given as a reason for divorce rather than adultery in a divorce petition. But usually there has been infidelity. Thing is you are, not for the first time, being very rigid and judgmental. the simple answer isn't always right.
But I'm not going to persuade you, so I'm out.
Your stats are American, Junkyard. Soap opera morals! 😉
And also very dodgy stats. The last figure of 2.5% of children having a father other than their legal father is based on genetic testing for genetic illness. What mother in her right mind would take her kids for a voluntary genetic test knowing she'd had sex with another man to conceive?
A blood bank in the Paris region has quoted 10% of children not being from their official father - genetic tests would have no doubt revealed more. Some women chose a husband for his social position and have another lover for his genes. Others are told it's probably their husband that can't conceive and chose a donor themselves rather than go for artificial insemination. Some are raped, some just want a fling. Anyhow those stats aren't like any I've seen in France or even the UK.
know many marriages that ended without infidelity? I don't
Most of the marriages that I've seen break down are because they ****ing hate each other.
JY know many marriages that ended without infidelity? I don't
Irrelevant the point is that your claim is not correct
I know I do insist the things we say are actually correct.Thing is you are, not for the first time, being very rigid and judgmental.
But I'm not going to persuade you, so I'm out.
All you have done is repeat your point without presenting any evidence. Obviously I am not going to be persuaded without some facts but I am not going to argue against facts either. The question remains have you any facts to prove your point?
Anyhow those stats aren't like any I've seen in France or even the UK.
Still happy to see some actual stats then
25.4% of married men and 18.3% of married women and have cheated on their current partners at least once
UK
http://www.yourtango.com/experts/miss-rosie-freeman-jones/uks-largest-survey-infidelity
Still happy to see some actual facts from better sources but i thought i would use a dating website to keep the soap opera meme alive 😉
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Here are some stats about how many children are "illegitimate". If 10% of kids are illegitimate, how many extramarital affairs does that extrapolate to? Certainly not a statistical outlier.
http://canadiancrc.com/newspaper_articles/Globe_and_Mail_Moms_Little_secret_14DEC02.aspx
I think other similar studies say the same thing more or less.
Anyway, this is irrelevant, as for me marriage is not about "sacred vows" - such things belong to an artificial code I can't relate to, so there's no point prolonging that angle of discussion.
know many marriages that ended without infidelity? I don't
Most of the marriages that I've seen break down are because they **** hate each other.
And a lot of marriages that are dead in the water, are kept together for the sake of the kids.
Everything gets complicated by having children. Their lives will be affected by the revelations. Personally, I wouldn't want to have a hand in that.
Rather than saying together for the kids, my mum and dad got divorced for the kids.
The new they couldn't stay together so split up so as not to put us through the shit.this was in the 80's and they are still friends to this day!!
I understand this doesn't always happen, but people should think of the kids and separate sometimes!!
Someone on here once said 'you only ever hear about the affairs that destroy marriages, not the ones that save them'.
I understand this doesn't always happen, but people should think of the kids and separate sometimes!!
Yup - my parents should have split up long before they did. Much of my teenage years were fairly unpleasant as a result.
Staying together for the kids isn't necessarily a good thing, and I speak from personal experience.
Not that they were much better apart!
Still, to stay on topic, if I don't know what my parents should have done about their own marriage, then meddling in a strangers is deluded.
Let's take a hypothetical stance here:
Supposing the wife is going along, partly in denial but holding it together to keep a roof over her and the kids' heads. You make a big revelation that forces the issue, he moves out and the wife and kids become homeless as she can't pay for the house on her income alone. Did you do the right thing? I'd say very clearly not.
I don't understand some of the Kant stuff mentioned earlier but it's clearly flawed as it doesn't factor for the consequences of it's approach.
I'd suggest that as I and many others have said, OP should walk away, count it as a lucky escape and play no part in potentially making a woman and her kids homeless. It's not your business, you gain nothing, but the wholly innocent kids potentially lose lots.
As others have said run...
My ex, who I've finally managed to put behind me was married and went back to her husband.
A recent stalk and some texts have revealed that she has no sex drive just now and is actively seeking someone for her husband. She's also seeking a woman for herself and someone to give her what she got from me.
From the outside they look like a happy family, these guys might be the same, you don't what people do in their private lives to make their relationships work.
and how many infidelities came about after the marriage was dead in the water but neither party had the bottle or are too lazy to end it? As per hugo and grum's example parents staying together when they don't like each other can be badknow many marriages that ended without infidelity?
Would you let a friend go on in ignorance of their partner cheating on them? Would your friend considered you did the right thing if you kept quiet?You make a big revelation .... Did you do the right thing? I'd say very clearly not.
Someone said this was a flawed argument, dunno why, friend or stranger they're still human and it's highly likely view/hope their marriage to be monogamous. True you don't know the details of a strangers relationship but I don't know details of my friends relationships, do you? I'm pretty sure all of them would want to know if their partner was cheating tho. (whether they did anything about it is a different matter)
But still not sure what I'd do in OPs situation.
[i]I don't understand some of the Kant stuff mentioned earlier but it's clearly flawed [/i]
Philosophy 101?
Philosophy 101?
Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made. 🙂
[quote=D0NK ]
and how many infidelities came about after the marriage was dead in the water but neither party had the bottle or are too lazy to end it?know many marriages that ended without infidelity?
Or scared of being even more lonely. I've no idea if I'll ever work up the courage to do anything, but it doesn't seem likely it's ever going to end any other way - at least not from my side. Not that I'm suggesting I wouldn't if the opportunity ever came along now, but I'm not sure I have the confidence to seduce anybody who wasn't handing it on a plate.
Though at least we don't hate each other, so there isn't any of that sort of toxicity mentioned above, I do wonder how our kids will view relationships when they've never seen their parent having any sort of physical affection.
Not really sure what I'm adding to this thread, apart from that it's nothing like as black and white as a lot of people seem to think.
It's nothing like as black and white as a lot of people seem to think.
Some of the truest words spoken on this thread. Something that the armchair moralists would do well to remember, and until you've walked a mile in someone's shoes, it's best to reserve judgement and err on the side of caution.
it's best to reserve judgement and err on the side of caution.
It's not a black and white situation.
The whites believe that the truth must come out and the wife should be told.
The black isn't really black, it's just not white. We just don't know, and so don't feel it's appropriate to get involved. The black here is really grey.
It's a grey and white situation!
It's a grey and white situation!
I'd argue that those suggesting the OP 'revenge shag' the blokes wife are from a rather black viewpoint 😈
Fair enough, that's our black!
I'm in the grey.
in some minds its about 50 shades never mind black 🙂
I was feeling similar before I split from an ex GF (I don't think being in a "passionless" relationship does much for your confidence), we'd been together a while didn't hate each other but there wasn't anything there between us, didn't have kids to worry about, so was easier for me to take a chance. I hope things improve for you.Or scared of being even more lonely.
I believe the wife has reason to be told, still not 100% sure I would do the telling. So I guess I'm [s]light grey[/s] smudged white.The whites believe that the truth must come out and the wife should be told.
Dunno, if this is relevant, but a mate of mine did something similar,
Out on a Friday night in Luton and he comes across a man and a woman slugging it out, he decides to try and split them up and restore calm etc. They then BOTH turn on him and he was stabbed for his efforts.
Sometimes its best not to get involved.
Lots of this stuff would go on when I was serving abroad, really didn't want to know, just happens I guess.
it's nothing like as black and white as a lot of people seem to think.
I dont think anyone thinks its a black and white issue as none of us are Kants,, we can see both points of view but we pick one
I pick the "white" as I believe most folk would want to know. those who disagree seem to want to shoot me for having morals they disagree with.
either side could do gentle name calling if they want but its neither helpful or relevant and I think everyone can see all views but we all have to pick one side or the other.
Can i suggest ultra black then.
Revenge shag the wife, and the eldest daughter providing she is 18 or over
Revenge shag the wife, and the eldest daughter providing she is 18 or over
Is that the Clarkian path, as trod by statesman Alan Clark?
It has to be better than the glitter route