[Closed] If you were born in Scotland but your parents were English....

Would you be Scottish or English?

I would be Scottish.

Mrs G's friends parents are English but were living in Edinburgh when daughter was born. Is she Scottish or English?

Whatever she wants to be.

Mrs G's dad was Proper Glaswegionic, so does that make her more Scottish than her friend? (Mrs G's paternal grandma was a McDonald & her Dads middle name was Lennox)

Can only be settled with a fight.

Can only be settled with a fight.

In pure Glaswegian styleee!? 😀

Whichever you prefer, I've two cousins - born in Germany, but technically on US soil as it was a US Airforce base. Mum Welsh, Dad English, lived in North of England since about 5 when they left Germany. They were Welsh last time we spoken a few years ago.

It might be a bit odd to perhaps be born in NI to Northern Irish Parents and declare yourself Scottish but there's no real difference to being English, Welsh, Scottish, Cornish, Northern Irish etc - subtlety different laws but that's based on where you are and where you live.

Sports have there own rules of course.

In pure Glaswegian styleee!?

Of course, and if the friend refuses then she must be from Edinburgh and then Mrs G (and Glasgow) wins by default.

It's her choice to what she identifies with. If it was my daughter I'd hope she shunned nationalism, but wouldn't be for me to dictate her.

The argument is that Mrs G's friend reckons she's more Scottish cos she was born there. Mr's G reckons she's more Scottish cos of the lineage.

If it was my daughter I'd hope she shunned nationalism,

Whoaa boy, too serious. (are you actually 'Neutral')

Which one likes mince an tatties more?

Are you good at any sports?

(this joke has 2 different punchlines, it's very efficient)

Which one likes mince an tatties more?

Mrs G's Dad loved tripe & whisky (maybe not together) 😀

Would you be Scottish or English?

Would you be civic or joyous?

I'm English , wife from New Zealand . Son born in Glasgow . His accent at 3 years old is best described as confused .

Follow the parents.

If both parents are English then regardless of where they are in the world she is English. (Vice versa for Scottish)

If parents are from both locations then she is both.

If she is born in third country say Nigeria then she can be Nigerian by nationality but she is British/English/Scottish Nigerian.

I don't actually think national identity should necessarily based on who your parents are or where you were born. Where you were born and who your parents are isn't your choice. But you can choose to live somewhere and become an active part of that society and culture.

I'm Scottish by birth (or the grace of God!) My wife has lived here for 15 years and has chosen to have a life and raise a family here. She's here by choice so as far as I'm concerned she's welcome to adopt a Scottish identity if that's what she wants.

I think you need to be three generations along before declaring what nationality you are, or at least long enough for it to show in your DNA and bones.
Otherwise you're just another incomer.

If both parents are English then regardless of where they are in the world she is English. (Vice versa for Scottish)

In which case we must all be African.

Would you be Scottish or English?

You would be British 😀

You'd be British, which is what you put on any forms in the nationality box. My mum was born in Glasgow and dad England and I'm British and proud. I never consider myself to be English or Scottish. I consider the home nations in the same way I do counties. I can't get too excited about it apart from at 6 Nations time.

Incidentally my brother has married a Russian and his son has dual Russian/British nationality and was born in Africa. What does that make him?

Apparently if you hold a rugby ball, you can choose whichever nationality you want.....

also applies to whichever way you kick a football too.. it also says British on my passport too

There are " the people of scotland" - the people that live here and have made scotland their home and there is " the scots people" - those who are ethnically scots.

I'm English as I was born in England

But as my grandfather was Irish my dad who was born in England has an Irish passport and my younger brother who was also born in England has an Irish passport and claims to be Irish, worse still his kids think they are Irish too and hold Irish passports

Me and my Sisters, my mum and my grandmother are all English

Baffles me tbh

I was born in England but we moved up to fife when i was less than a year old.

I identify myself as scottish as i know nothing else, its my home and i love it.

Sonetime i even play the fifer card.

I'm not some mad nationalist though its purely geographical. Half and half in regards to parents and all four nations if i go back a couple of generations.

British on my passport is not an issue for me its just a bit clunky . North British?

those who are ethnically scots.

Ethnic scots are surely Irish?

also applies to whichever way you kick a football too

Not really, there has to be some lineage in football, rugby at the moment would make Jackie Charlton blush...

The true answer to the OP's question is:

unlucky 😆

I suspect that for the most part if you were brought up in Scotland and speak with the local accent then even those born and raised there wouldn't know the difference unless you told them.

When asked what nationality I am or where I'm from I will usually reply with the least confusing answer so it could be England/English, Britain/British, occasionally UK as country. It's just a label, it only really matters to those who want to create divisions.

There are " the people of scotland" - the people that live here and have made scotland their home and there is " the scots people" - those who are ethnically scots

There is a single Scot ethnicity?

Grandad on my mums side, born in Wiltshire of Italian parents.
Nan on mums side, of Scottish parents, born in Sunderland and raised in Sheffield

Grandad on dads side, from Larne in NI before moving to Birmingham
Nan on dads side, born in Shropshire before moving to Birmingham

My uncle was born in Sunderland, raised in Sheffield and now lives in Grays, Essex which makes for a great mash-up of an accent.

I was born in Portsmouth, lived up in North and West Yorkshire for long time, worked extensively in Spain and Morocco and now live in Norfolk...

I have absolutely no idea about where i should call "home" but i think that is what has always made me have a huge Wanderlust!!

[img] [/img]

English parents then english by lineage. But a person of scotland in terms of culture etc.

If a cats born in a kennel it doesn't make it a dog, does it?

Everyone who's English will say you're Scottish, and everyone who's Scottish will say you're English 🙄

Everyone who's English will say you're Scottish, and everyone who's Scottish will say you're English

am i 'more indian' than my indian mate? His grandparents all born in Uganda. My grandfather born in Raipur.

doesn't make him african, nor me indian IMO.

If a cats born in a kennel it doesn't make it a dog, does it?

You are the nationality of where you were born you can have affinity to anywhere you like

Scottish with english kids

I don't think it matters a jot where you or your parents happened to be born. I see myself as a citizen of Scotland, I chose to live here, I contribute to society and pay tax here and I'm committed to the place. I've been In Scotland longer than anywhere else.
Then you get the likes of Sean Connery, batters on and on about Scotland but loves the place so much he would do anything for Scotland except actually live and contribute there.

My mum was born in India where she lived until she was 18 when she moved to Greenock. She then joined the army and lived in a variety of places in England and settled down in Kent. She's definitely completely English but is always apologising for what the English have done around the world (despite her forebears in India being Scottish Fergusons).

My brother's children are Welsh despite being born and living in St Albans.

My son was born in Aberdeen and has a Welsh Mother. He got right into footy last year and supports his Mums country as they are better...Kids at school now call him Squelchy 😆

My dad is Irish and my mum a Londoner and i was born in Gloucestershire.

Got informed more than once growing up that i was a f***ing Paddy

I got round the identity issue by being British or European...That is what is on the cover of one passport, the other says Irish but i can't really say i am.

You can claim whatever you want, does it really matter or make you a different person? That said I did have some genealogy stuff and a DNA test info via family member which showed male line roots in SW England going back at least 4500 years. Female line all from SW Wales similarly back donkey's years. All interesting to find out for sure. Brought up by Welsh side and everything about being this instilled from an early age including language, rugby etc. But born and lived in London for years. So at various times can lay claim to being a Londoner, a taff, a yokel etc whatever suits the situation.

Actually it's probably all pretty meaningless, I guess virtually everyone is a mixture of backgrounds and has moved about these days and we are all related anyway not that far back, or if the royal family / landed gentry still very much are.

Did have a weird situation though a few years back though when speaking to a Moldovan priest (long story) who was really having a go and giving me a stern lecture about mixing blood not being good when he found out Mrs is Scottish. I didn't think people like that really existed anymore.

sweepy - Member

I don't think it matters a jot where you or your parents happened to be born. I see myself as a citizen of Scotland, I chose to live here, I contribute to society and pay tax here and I'm committed to the place.

This.

You can think you are whatever you like/be whatever you like deep down, but to me you'll be whatever your accent says you are.

Take my wife: claims to identify with yorkshire having lived most of her life brought up three kids, yadda yadda. Accent says scouse. Next!

(Right then. off to the sexy accents thread it is.)

Are they GOOD PEOPLE?

if the answer is yes - it does not matter.
They are still good people

if the answer is no - it does not matter.
you get c**** from everywhere

simply_oli_y - Member
English parents then english by lineage. But a person of scotland in terms of culture etc.

If a cats born in a kennel it doesn't make it a dog, does it?

They could change into a big elephant, yes? 😆

thomthumb - Member
am i 'more indian' than my indian mate? His grandparents all born in Uganda. My grandfather born in Raipur.
doesn't make him african, nor me indian IMO.

You are Indian. You are British Indian or Indian with British Nationality. Me mates (Gujarati) from Kenya all consider themselves Indians rather than Africans. i.e. Kenyan nationality but ethnicity Indian. They always see themselves as Indians.

Just like Chinese all over the world. They are all Chinese but may be Italian Chinese, French Chinese etc but bottom line is that they are Chinese. Regardless of what they say about their fancy nationality if they are Chinese they are, unless they breed themselves out.

Phil_H - Member
Born in Scotland, lived here all my life but because my parents were born in England I spend the first half of my life being told I didn't belong.
This probably explains my deep distrust of Scottish nationalism

That's fairly similar to my early experiences. It's pretty painful to be told that you're not a part of the country into which you were born and where you've always lived, especially to be told that more than once as a child.

My personal sense of national identity is pretty evenly balanced between being Scottish and British, probably due to those early experiences. I can't think of myself as English at all though, despite my parentage. It's a place I've visited, but it's never felt like a homeland to me.

My mum was researching our family tree a few years ago and discovered that ironically my dad's family actually moved to Yorkshire from Huntly, which is only about 30 miles from where I grew up, a few generations ago.

There are different technical rules about nationality for sport, etc, but I think it is about residency and where you build your life and identity. That might be during your formative years (so some people will retain their original national identity even when they move to another country) or you may choose to adopt a new nationality if you put down roots elsewhere.

I live and work with lots of English-born people who have made their permanent home in Scotland and I would regard them and their kids as Scots (I won't speak for how they view their own nationality).

I'm not sure about the idea of "people of Scotland" and "ethnic Scots" either. How would you define an "ethnic Scot"?

I think regarding yourself as Scottish or English just by parentage is pretty tenuous, if you are actually brought up in a different place and have no significant interaction with the country of your assumed identity.

I'm Scottish, the wife's English.

During the Independence referendum a card carrying SNP member, a "friend of a friend" called my kids "half breed little bastards" Make of that what you will

My grandma was Welsh, I was born in India to English parents, my kids were born in People's Republic of South Yorkshire, but have lived most of their lives in Scotland....

Is thier a nationality for 'Mongrel'?

matt_outandabout - Member

Is thier a nationality for 'Mongrel'?

Aye- British

My father is from Manchester, mother is American - I was born here so I'm Scottish.

proud to be a mongrel here

I'm Scottish, the wife's English.

During the Independence referendum a card carrying SNP member, a "friend of a friend" called my kids "half breed little bastards" Make of that what you will

I'd say you were pretty unlucky to meet such an unpleasant person. What's the relevance of the SNP membership?

During the Independence referendum a card carrying SNP member, a "friend of a friend" called my kids "half breed little bastards" Make of that what you will

Nationalist scum, they exist, unfortunately, and the talk of Brexit and Scottish independence only makes them think such attitudes are acceptable. As i said above, i am not English and never will see myself as such because i was on the receiving end of the abuse many years ago.

Place of birth or sense of belonging should be borderline irrelevant sideshows imho, it's whether you're a **** or not that counts.

I agree with you about place of birth Piemonster but I think a sense of belonging is pretty important. It can make a place feel like home, helps people to feel part of a community. A lack of that sense of belonging might contribute to a sense alienation with all that entails

A lack of that sense of belonging might contribute to a sense alienation with all that entails

I would word it slightly differently, treat some one as an outsider and that is how you get issues. People are always part of a society and can have many ideas of self. The school, the job, the hobbies, the town, religion, etc there is rarely a conflict between identities unless someone wants to create an issue. This person can be within the group or without.

The less grounded a person the easier it is to make them feel that they have no place in the greater whole and the more likely they are to lash out.

English parents but I was born in Glasgow

Apparently it is an individual decision

I'm English

I was born in Canada to British parents. I have dual nationality and get to cherry pick all the best parts of each. Love it! 🙂

I have two friends.
One born in London to English parents, raised in Glasgow & a staunch Rangers fan, speaks with a broad Glaswegian accent & identifies as Scottish.
Other bloke, born in Rochdale of Scottish Parents, speaks with the same accent as me. Staunchly Scottish.
Basically its down to cultural exposure, you are what you feel yourself to be.

Me? Scottish & Welsh heritage on my maternal side, but i know/feel naught of that. My fathers side have been here since before the Conquest, we are in the Domesday book & our name comes from a place four miles from where i sit now. Guess which side i identify with?
My maternal grandparents were all miners who moved from Wales/Scottish borders to look for work in the mills in the C19th, but i know almost nothing if them as people, which is a real pity. I dunno, how do you quantify a feeling?

but I think a sense of belonging is pretty important

I have a sense of belonging and grounding for sure, it's just that the "community" is only limited by how many people there are and not what behaviours those people exhibit. There's no us and them for me, just us.

Basically its down to cultural exposure, you are what you feel yourself to be.

Which will be down to this and especially childhood experiences. Fair to say I've found Brexit a challenge.

you would be English

Excuses, excuses.
🙂

Your official nationality should be your country of birth.

Any difficulties that arrise from this are the fault of chance or sloppy parenting.

Your official nationality should be your country of birth.

So no one is English then, there is no such country.

Your official nationality should be your country of birth.

The only time in my adult life I declared myself as Indian, was to become the only Indian to enter the world stone skimming championships, so becoming Indian national champion by default....

🙂

Back to great grandparents I'm English, French, Scottish, Irish,
and Spanish .
Possibly Belgian too, but she might originally have been from somewhere else.

I was born in Lancashire.
To a Yorkshire father.

Rusty wins the Heinz award for biggest mongrel....

Makes you think.
🙂

Nightmare when watching Eurovision though.

KCR I think the guys SNP membership is very relevant. During a discussion about the referendum he bitches about English folk living in Scotland, has a go at my wife & calls my kids half breed bastards.

I'd say his membership/support of said party is very relevant. There's some real racist ****ers in their ranks.

There are. They get kicked out when they're caught but there's 120000 members so it's no wonder there's some scumbags (and sadly, this particular sort of scumbag is likely to be drawn towards the party. Not that they're made welcome, it's just an obvious tie-in)

dahedd - Member

KCR I think the guys SNP membership is very relevant.

not really, you could be a member of the conservative party in Scotland and still make the same comment or just some scumbag from the council estates.

You should be able to choose whatever nationality you want / feel most comfortable with.

You didn't choose your parents, their nationality or where they had you born - why should you be saddled with them?

Nationality, like nations, is an overrated concept.

I'm Scots by the way. From Yorkshire these days.

llama - Member
English parents but I was born in Glasgow

Apparently it is an individual decision

I'm English

May I offer my condolences

Edit - 😉

Born and lived in Scotland my whole life, English parents. I'm Scottish.

When I say my parents are English, my old man's parents were a geordie and a glaswegian, my mum's parents were Polish....so it's all nonsense trying to assign some kind of reasoning to it if you keep working back....

I'd say his membership/support of said party is very relevant. There's some real racist **** in their ranks.

Xenophobic, perhaps? Neither English or Scottish are races.

I don't see anti English rhetoric coming from the SNP (in fact they go to some lengths to stress their position is not anti English) so I don't see why you are conflating the offensive behaviour of some individual members with a party whose official position is clearly opposed to such behaviour.
Contrast that with the nationalism of UKIP, where leading figures in the party talk in a way that I regard as overtly xenophobic, and sometimes racist.

engish and scottish are races under the various laws around discrimination

Yes anti English racism is present in the SNP ranks, its a tiny amount and they are kicked out when discovered. Its not a core part of the ~SNP philosophy unlike UKIP