[Closed] idiet = science?

if you practice running slowly, that's what you get good at. Sprinting's where it's at 😈

Banging away like a sex pest I'd imagine!

Now if anyone else had wrote that....

[i]is it important?[/i]

Probably not, although iDave will be able to explain in more detail.

I'm just interested.

I'm interested to see peoples HR when they do all this runnig malarkey.

[img] [/img]

From a local xc race.
I came last 🙂

HR is one way of knowing what your body is doing so you can try to do certain things with your training. Possibly one of the least useful ways, but one of the easiest to measure.

i hate sprint sessions/hill reps

Then do them. There's a reason you hate them, it's cos your bad at them 🙂

Soobalias, it takes a long warm up, and TBH that's pretty much my limit ATM, I was nearly puking at the end, and jelly legs for the rest if the day. Sprints for deffo, ive been running like a crim for short distances, and knocked longer distances on the head, yesterday was the longest run I've done for weeks and weeks.

I ache today LOL

Ian.

Interesting. What is your maximal HR ?.

And just incase I'm mistaken for just being nosey.
My Maximal is approximately 184 bpm, which was observed on an uncalibrated Garmin.

My last run before finally giving into the fact I actually had a chest infection, and MTFU was not helping for once.

All off road as usual.

[img] [/img]

[img] [/img]

Solo - Member
Any idea of your heart rate during your run ?

emsz - Member
Banging away like a sex pest I'd imagine!

pmsl!

imagines emsz jogging in a dirty mack.

Well now I'm inspired to do my local 10km route tonight in my new shoes. So far it's been a pacing exercise so I don't end up hurting that annoying spot on the outside of my knee - I've never managed to run the whole thing as hard as I can.

I'll see if my new shoes help.

Jamie.

You got upto running a mile in just over 5 mins.
Thats some going.

Jamie that's pretty fast for off road and not feeling v well! My route has one gentle hill with a short steep bit and the rest is flat as!

Soz for sex pest comment, ignore me, I'm not getting any, and I'm more than a little bit frustrated!!

Solo, I guess my max is about 190-192ish (as opposed to 177 from the standard formula), but I think my heart is probably the equivalent of one of those noisy gutless 2 stroke moped engines 🙂

Hardly any of my local route is flat, which makes my times look bad 🙂

Can you all see this? It was the last time I did the route.

http://www.endomondo.com/workouts/30998517

Ah bugg*r. I then go read (skim over the complex bits) something like this...

http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2011/08/carbohydrate-hypothesis-of-obesity.html

and wonder whether or not the whole thing is tosh or not. He seems to be saying
- you can't just focus on insulin as there's lot of other interactions going on
- carb restriction will most likely reduce weight but you can't escape the laws of thermodynamics - balancing calories in v calories out...

so difficult to know which is right!

Rich

My gut and puny legs makes my times look bad 🙂

I guess my max is about 190-192ish (as opposed to 177 from the standard formula)

Sorry, the hightlighted bit was a bit of a mistake, that's the HR for the last 10 feet 🙂 , the average was 184.

soobalias - Member
oh and to the poster above who has lost nearly 5lbs of belly and moobs in a week...... Make sure you are drinking enough water.

Yep drinking plenty, and everything is clear so to speak 😉

I just went for a run so used my 30 min window to have chocolate cake for lunch.

That's alright, yeah?

Sounds awesome! I had a boiled eggs, crisps, and some chicken scraps.

Anyone had a play with the [url= http://www.geek.com/articles/mobile/zombies-run-iphone-app-will-keep-you-running-literally-20110914/ ]'Zombies, RUN!'[/url] App?

TSY, fancy a gym challenge tonight? See who gets best times on the KB workout? 🙂

Are you telling me to check hotmail?

Yes. Yes I am. Nothing like a bit of competition to help improve a workout 😀

Ah bugg*r. I then go read (skim over the complex bits) something like this...

http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2011/08/carbohydrate-hypothesis-of-obesity.html

and wonder whether or not the whole thing is tosh or not. He seems to be saying
- you can't just focus on insulin as there's lot of other interactions going on
- carb restriction will most likely reduce weight but you can't escape the laws of thermodynamics - balancing calories in v calories out...

Wanderer,

I haven't read the whole article , but from skimming the start I think I agree with most of it. The Carbohydrate Hypothesis of Obesity is just wrong. But that doesn't mean diets like iDave don't work, or that insulin response isn't important - they are, but not for the reasons given in the Carbohydrate Hypothesis of Obesity.

iDave works because you don't get hungry and you cut out a lot of calorie dense foods (dairy, starchy foods, and sugary foods). You don't get hungry because you don't have wildly swinging blood glucose levels. You don't have wildly swinging blood glucose levels because after a few days on these diets you end up with stable and generally low insulin levels.

More to it than that, but its really an unrestricted calorie diet that works because you don't feel the need to eat so many calories.

Colin

Why is that carbohydrate theory wrong?

Does elevated blood insulin not promote fat storage?

[i]You don't get hungry because you don't have wildly swinging blood glucose levels[/i]

Aren't you overlooking the part played by Grehlin ?.

I do not see how blood sugar level directly stimulates the feeling of hunger ?.
I was under the impression blood sugar levels effected how [i]energetic[/i] one may feel.
Not how hungry they may feel.

Not forgetting that idave and 4 hour body diets are not low carb. I think it is more accurately called a low insulin inducing diet.

Whatever the theory, it seems to work fairly well although I stopped losing weight well at about 15% body fat and I don't have the motivation at the moment to get it lower. When the race season is closer, I'll put some more effort into it although it seems rather complicated to get the right amount of carbs at the right time to be able to train and recover well without over eating.

[i]Does elevated blood insulin not promote fat storage[/i]

From what I've read, insulin is released in order to remove excess sugar from the blood.
Thats blood sugar (glucose) that isn't being used in real time by the body, during physical activity.

Insulin sends the glucose in the blood, off to the liver, where it is conveted to glycogen, etc, etc.

I do not see how blood sugar level directly stimulates the feeling of hunger ?

It does, at least that's how I understood it. Kind of obvious from an evolutionary perspective, no?

From what I've read, insulin is released in order to remove excess sugar from the blood.

That's one of the things insulin does. It does loads of other things.

I do not see how blood sugar level directly stimulates the feeling of hunger ?.

Low blood sugar => hunger

More later
Colin

[i]That's one of the things insulin does. It does loads of other things[/i]
I was keeping with context.

[i]Low blood sugar => hunger[/i]

Not directly, I thought.
However, LBS may trigger the release of Ghrelin ?.
However, if the body felt its BS to be low, then surely fat metabolism would occur ?.

Low blood sugar levels have been linked with switching off the bit of the brain which controls willpower - specifically the willpower to resist sweet and fatty foods.

[url= http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/blood-sugar-crashes-weaken-willpower-2358954.html ]So it said in the Independent[/url] a few months ago. I guess that makes sense in times of famine, but not so good these days.

Fat metabolism occurs all the time anyway, it's the body's preferred source of fuel. However, I thought it used some carbs to metabolise fat.

[i]Fat metabolism occurs all the time anyway, it's the body's preferred source of fuel. However, I thought it used some carbs to metabolise fat.[/i]

Not so convinced of that.
I believe the body will happily ask for and run on simple sugars.
Metabolising fat requires more work.
So the body asks for sugar.

This is the cycle to be corrected, to get the body to happily run on fat for all but high intensity activity.

All those graphs showing people's HR at ~ 90 percent MHR, are running on sugar, not their fat stores, as the fat can not be metabolised quickly enough.
As far as I know...

If you don't have enough sugar in your blood, during your high intensity activity, then the body scavenges the fastest carbs it can from other sources within the body ?.
While making you really, really want something sweet to eat or drink.

Sprints for deffo, ive been running like a crim for short distances, and knocked longer distances on the head, yesterday was the longest run I've done for weeks and weeks.

Be careful with this emsz, you'll get faster quickly but plateau early.

Metabolising fat requires more work.

It requires more oxygen for a given amount of energy expenditure, but if your expenditure is low (ie now I am sat at a desk) there is plenty of oxygen.

When running at 90% max HR you might be getting 40% of your calories from fat, when running at 75% you might be getting 65% from fat.

[i]When running at 90% max HR [b]you might be getting 40% of your calories from fat[/b], when running at 75% you might be getting 65% from fat.[/i]

But the fat is converted to glucose ?.
Cells don't burn fat, they [i]burn[/i] glucose, no ?.

However, if you shovel in tons of glucose, gels, energy drinks, whatever. Then the body just goes straight to them and doesn't touch the fat.

Fat is precious to the body, its worked to store it and its survival depends on it.
Furthermore, it takes every opportunity to make it and store it.
Which is why those on high sugar diets just keep getting heavier.

Which brings us back to our evolutionary past, when food wasn't as widely, abundantly, available.
As we know.

Let us also not overlook the role and effect of cortisol, when it is released. Typically when the body is under stress.
one effect of cortisol is the suppression of the immune system.
And here, some folk are reporting chest infections, etc.
Is this linked ?.

Cells don't burn fat, they burn glucose, no ?

No I think they burn adenosite triphosphate...? But I suggest if you want to be sure of this stuff then hit the library.

However, if you shovel in tons of glucose, gels, energy drinks, whatever. Then the body just goes straight to them and doesn't touch the fat.

Because of the insulin. And don't overlook the fact that shoving the gels in might result in higher overall levels of exertion and hence more calories burned 🙂

[i]Because of the insulin. And don't overlook the fact that shoving the gels in might result in higher overall levels of exertion and hence more calories burned[/i]

Yes, so like I was suggesting earlier, the body would prefer sugar for fuel ?.
But plan [i]B[/i] is to use fat.

So leading on from that.
If you eat stuff that doesn't elicit fat production via the insulin response, etc.
Food that isn't high in sugar.
Then the body is inclined to turn to metabolising its fat reserves in addition to the cals from your food.

I don't feel the craving for sugary stuff now anywhere near as much as I use to.
I believe my body has adjusted to more readily go to any stored fat for energy.
Which is what I want it to do.
I don't want to be pestered by my body for sugar all the time, and I prefer to be leaner.

iDave said he was [i]leaning out[/i] for mid Jan, IIRC.
I wonder how thats going ?.

the body would prefer sugar for fuel ?.

If you have carb stores and fat stores (as you do) then sitting at your desk you will be burning almost all fat. Your body keeps the carbs for when you need to hunt a mammoth or run away from a sabre toothed tiger.

When running at 90% max HR you might be getting 40% of your calories from fat, when running at 75% you might be getting 65% from fat.

Wiki says 5-10% from fat at 90%
35%-50% at 75%
[url] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exercise_intensity [/url]

Obviously too be taken with a pinch of salt (10% of RDA)

[i]Your body keeps the carbs [/i]

Yeap, as glycogen, in your muscles.
And removes sugar from the blood that isn't being consumed for energy at the time.

[i]for when you need to hunt a mammoth or run away from a sabre toothed tiger.[/i]

Fight or flight. But our ancestor didn't run at max HR for hours on end to avoid becoming lunch/dinner for some other beasty.
Chases didn't last that long, did they ?.
So running for hours, at very high HRs doesn't make loads of sense to me.

But I am thick, so what do I know.
🙂

[i]Obviously too be taken with a pinch of salt (10% of RDA)[/i]
😆