[Closed] I think I want a Hilux.

Pickups are great. (in places where it hardly ever rains) 😉

I reckon this would be more fun for the school run and a bit of green-laning

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Get one with 3 litre engine.

3.0L Manual Invincible is on the radar at the moment.

They are proper workhorse so if you find one in good condition go for it. You will not be disappointed with it's reliability but the rear seats can be a steep i.e. 90 degree ish. The front is ok but then I have not sat in the latest model so they might have improved it.

The front is ok but then I have not sat in the latest model so they might have improved it.

don simon - Member

The newer models seem to be more car like in the comfort stakes, or that is to say less industrial.

Go for it if you are not bothered about bullying other road users ...

I want one too but not sure how to justify one.

Pickups are great. (in places where it hardly ever rains)

Do you go off road?

I want one too but not sure how to justify one.

You will either need a tray top (less storage than a small car)
or a cover which makes storing anything a PITA.

Do you go off road?

Use one every day for work (exploration geo in aussie bush)....Hilux are the business, tough as nuts, great on fuel (compared to other utes)

Pickups are great. (in places where it hardly ever rains)

Or where stuff gets nicked.
You will either need a tray top (less storage than a small car)
or a cover which makes storing anything a PITA.
Do you go off road?

Exactly.

Pickups create more problems than they solve I reckon.

They look good, but for me at least, it was the least convenient way of being able to carry 4/5 people and some kit I've come across.

if you need to move 4/5 people and kit you def need the full double cab

if you need to move 4/5 people and kit you def need the full double cab

That's what I had. Hated it.

Now have a T4 Multivan. Far more practical for carrying people and kit I reckon.

Stick a .50 cal or a rocket launcher in the back, and you can start your own insurrection! Truck of choice for freedom fighters the world over. 😀
Top Gear tried to destroy one once, you may recall.

They are bloody awful on the road, amazing off road though. They are agricultural, with a jiggly and very fidgety ride, the older ones are renowned for falling over when going round bends too!! Oh and the dual cabs are also very uncomfortable.

They are obsessed with them over here (Australia) and are the weapon of choice if you plan to go off road, if most of you travel is on the road though they are extremely compromised! They are also bloody big so not ideal for UK roads and parking spots!

Must admit I don't get the fascination with them, if you go offroad a 4x4 will offer comparable performance with more comfort and security and if you spend most of your time on the road get a van or big estate car.

They are obsessed with them over here (Australia) and are the weapon of choice if you [s]plan to go off road,[/s] need to add more girth

Also, off road, unless you are carrying weight in the back, the rears can struggle for grip as there's not much pressing them down. Also the rear suspension is from a Roman chariot in terms of sophistication.

Tis true, always a few pictures floating around of Hiluxs that have flipped or crashed on pit ramps at mine sites.

Also the rear suspension is from a Roman chariot in terms of sophistication

Only get one if you intend to use it properly

Don't blame Hilux blame the unskilled drivers. 🙄

So what 4x4 do you propose in the jungle of Borneo for illegal loggers? 😆

Chap who prepared the artic TG challenge one commented that they had to carry out bulkhead strengtheninetc g whereas the older version alreasy had it.

I work for a company that runs a fleet of them for work (agriculture).

It puts me in the unfortunate position of having to use one a few times a week.

Where to start. The ride can only be described as appalling at best. It is 'better' (I use that word in the loosest sense) when it's got half a ton's worth of ballast in the back, but then it handles like an ocean liner due to it's COG being up in the clouds. Tow's like a turd as well.

The interior is dire. It is evident that this is where the plastic from Honda's in the 80's ended up.

Wind/Road noise is very high. Chose to be deafened by either that, or poor stereo.

Rear bench seats. No other word than useless.

Storage. Laughably bad considering the thing is actually bigger than my LWB T5 Transporter. I think I could actually get more in my wife's Seat Ibiza.

Flatbed - need a lockable roller really unless you want stuff nicked every time you stop.

Engine/Fuel. We have a collection of 3.0 & 2.5(?). Stunningly slow in all capacities, have a drinking ability similar to George Best on his best form. Our accounts team have MPG checked them for the 2 years we have run them so far. Not one has averaged over 21mpg in a combined 350,000 miles.

However, that being said, as an agricultural vehicle a lot of the issues are for that reason, they are designed to be used, abused and wrecked around the farm. It's somewhat ironic they arn't very good offroad though (I mean proper offroad rather than farm tracks).

So, unless you're a farmer, no.

When hitching in Canada once I got a lift with an old boy in one of those BIG pickups. He asked me if we had such things in the UK and I told him I used to drive a Hilux at work to which he responded:

"Son, over here we call that half a truck."

IanMunro - Member
I reckon this would be more fun for the school run and a bit of green-laning

I had no idea those things actually existed other than as RC cars. Looks like great fun!

Got a Ford Ranger - <keegan> love it </keegan>
Hilux is probably the best out there.
For kit / bike carrying there's nothing better IMHO - I've got a canopy on it.
I don't need it as a daily driver, but I do use it for airport commutes, collecting firewood, lugging bikes/kayaks and towing the caravan. Mrs J has a normal car if we need to go posh.
Rear seat spice isn't great, but the kids are only young and I don't have to sit in it 🙂
Certainly the most versatile of my recent vehicles - Landrover 110 and LWB High-Top Ducato.

We have them at work, awful things. The load space in the flatbed is a manual handling nightmare and the racking and extendy shelf thing they've fitted to get around this loses a large chunk of the load area. Ride is terrible on-road and our lot saw fit to get them with faux wheel drive tyres so they are absolutely shite in muddy fields.

The old landrovers were much better, if a bit more maintenance intensive.

I'd much rather have a BRAT or a caddy, don't get the obsession with being jacked up to the moon.

Thanks all, handlingwise, are they better or worse than flatbed Transits?
Spacewise, I'm lost as to how a Seat Ibiza can have more space.
I can't help thinking that many complaints are borne from trying to drive a 4X4 in the same manner as driving a sports car.
In regard to photos of rolled cars, the internet will throw up evidence to support any argument I have for or against.
The Ford Focus is pretty unsatble too.
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😯

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Guy here at work has a HiLux and swears by it - he loves it

I currently have an L200 - top of the range with every extra, it's crap!

Just ordered the VW Amorak - makes the HILux look tiny 😈

They have their drawbacks - parking in town, doing a weekly shop and having to put everything on the back seats, no matter how refined they are they drive like a truck - but for all the faults I do like owning one........although if I had the choice I'd be thinking about a Vito kitted out!

More refined than a transit, plenty of torquem plenty of speed, fairly comfy, just don't expect to driuve it round corners like you would a normal car - but I think you know that already

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It has to be a back to the future one!!! One of the guys in the Dragon DH races had one similar for a while. Beast

From doing lots of motorway miles, they are the one vehicle on the motorway that I keep a big big distance from as they always appear to be very unstable when having to take evasive action or brake hard, I've seen some very scary things with them.

I know its pretty much all down to tyres, but there were certainly a few a Moutain Mayhem that were struggling in the mud where normal cars were doing ok!

What do you actually want to use it for ?

Do you actually need a flatbed load space.

From doing lots of motorway miles, they are the one vehicle on the motorway that I keep a big big distance from as they always appear to be very unstable when having to take evasive action or brake hard, I've seen some very scary things with them.

I know its pretty much all down to tyres, but there were certainly a few a Moutain Mayhem that were struggling in the mud where normal cars were doing ok!

What do you actually want to use it for ?

They are very popular in New Zealand, the land where it's nearly impossible to fail a warrant of fitness, and there are no motorways. Need a couple of sheepdogs in the back to complete the image. And some shotgun mounts on the front. And a dead bush pig strapped to the front grill.

"Both elements there would appear to be down to diver error. "

Which rather confirms my thought that they tend to be driven by kn@bs 😆

In fairness if people want one then get one, but personaly I think they are dangerous, not very practical and dont do any one thing particularly well (apart from carrying sheep or dogs)

TYres make a huge difference - the standard Bridgstones that came on mine wree rubbish, back end used to be all over the show - replaced with Goodyears and transformed it

based on 6 months driving them - last truck id buy would be a hilux

if the old shape hadnt rusted to nothing by now id entertain that if i wanted something to drive 10 miles with a decent load in

new shape no way.

the L200 with koni coilovers i had in ukraine shit all over it - didnt feel so high and much more car like , comfortable and felt no where near as sea sick from the leafer bob.

as for the yank pick up trucks - "most" are RWD - was hillarious when we entered a muddy oil field in bakersfield and my colleague said "we are gonna get stuck here" - i said yeah the tires are a bit weedy even the 4wd might not help- he laughed and said "son this aint a 4wd"

even Land rover moved on from leafers in 1984 !

We've just got an Amarok with a hard top that sit flush with the cabin roof. It handles pretty well for the size of it, the ride is a bit crashy on country roads but very smooth on decent surfaces. One of our kids was a serial puker and she doesn't get sick in it. Its very quiet on the motorway and will sit in sixth at 80 or 90 no problem. We're just back from a trip, it did 29mpg with out any effort to conserve fuel. We had 4 big kit bags, a double pram, a high chair and 2 bikes in the back, and it was just about half full. It costs us the same as a van in BIK and fuel benefit. They're not for everyone but if you want 4x4 and serious load caacity they can make a lot of sense.

I've had 2 x L200's and use it as an everyday vehicle and family car. The main reason I went for the L200 was that it had more usable space inside and the rear doors are full size which is handy with kids. I drive to the Alps a few times a year and load it to the roof, 5 bikes and 4 people. No one seems to complain. On a long run, loaded I'll get around 30mpg.
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Get a proper 4x4. A Land Rover Defender.

[url= http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/land-rover-defender-aas-every-day-caryes-or-no ]Not too sure about a Defender.[/url]
Thanks for the pic, RV.

For load capacity my LWB transit was great - 6 bikes + sleeping in
Bikes inside and locked away. Had 1.5t of firewood in there couple of times too.
Pickup/ute etc bikes outside and nickable (1-0 I reckon)

Handling the transit has some even Med High/LWB was better than a hilux

Off roading
If we mean fields,lanes and snow covered road transit was v good. Hi lux may be a bit better but for my money not worth the other crap.

If you actually want to go proper off road get something cheap and keep it off the tarmac

Farm I work on have an old shaped version and a new turbo Diesel version.

Prefer the old shape for all the off road use and the new shape for on road.

Both Feel like boats on the motorway, you tend to guide it in the right direction, rather than steer it 😉

Load weight capicity has changed too, so worth checking if you are planning to lug heavy stuff with it.

for what he suggests i wouldnt have a land rover either.....

[url= http://www.dacia.co.UK/ ]suprisingly affordable utility 4*4[/url] FTW.....

If you actually want to go proper off road get something cheap and keep it off the tarmac

Sounds like you would be better off with some other vehicle for what your requirements are to be honest. A 4WD van or some other SUV I'd say.

A 4WD van or some other SUV I'd say.

id certainly look at a kangoo/berlingo/partner estate 4x4 with a 2.0 HDI a set of winter tires and a towbar.

I have a set of winter tires for my FWD partner and because of the high ground clearance its very good in winter

but depends what you want and what you expect from a car.

At least the Duster's a *bit* more modern than the Lada..... And cheap..... And roomy..... And 4WD..... And did I mention it's cheap? You could get one *and* a nice car too for the same money as a hilux....

Here you go: The ultimate lifestyle pickup:
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Estate car-like to drive, but without the boot!

You don't necessarily need a 4wd for "a bit of off-road".
The forestry commission use(d) these:
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Berlingo XTR. 2wd, but with an LSD, raised suspension and decent tyres.

Get a car for driving on the road, a Van(or trailer) for carting stuff about and a proper off-roader for off-roading.

We've has various 4wd pickups at work and I've driven (mainly towing) them quite a lot: Mitsubishi L200 - dire in all respects.
Hi-Lux 3 litre - pulls well, interior awful, handling, noise etc awful
Nissan Navarra - best of the bunch but still woeful compared to any car.
We've recently got a VW transporter van with 4wd. Much better than any of the pickups, but still noisy and fairly crude.

If you need a pickup, get a pickup.

If you just 'fancy the idea' of a pickup as some sort of open-range-cowboy-lifestyle statement or otherwise, get a pickup.

If you're looking at it practically, get a van and a car or a large MPV.

ps. I wanted to hire a Hilux Crew-cab to drive around the Andes (for open-range-cowboy reasons 😉 ). There were none available so I ended up with a little 1.6litre petrol Ford 2wd SUV(South America market only) which was actually quite capable on dirt roads at 4000m.

toyota tundra........
great mpg if you get this one!

Drive several for work, most used one has 260'000km on the clock now. Suspensions pretty much shagged but it keeps on trucking.

Handlings not great with off road tyres on, its pretty good with road based tyres, the comfort increases too.

Off road ability is pretty good. Don't need to turn the front hubs when you shift into 4wd which is an advantage. Has low range 4wd as well.

If you stick a moderate amount of weight on the back, be prepared to pay out for a new clutch as they don't like it.

Ours are all the 3l diesel ones, don't seem too bad on fuel, but them i'm not paying the bill, from memory, 400-500km from about 50-60L of fuel, with a load on the back of 300kg approx.

The biggest con are the Series 70 Land Cruisers, $80'000 gets you a great big V8 turbo diesel, electric windows, a cd player with 2 speakers, 1 cup holder, 2 seats, couple of airbags and thats about it. Substantial drinking habit, manage on average about 18L per 100km, good job it has two 90L tanks! Great off road ability, but terrible on road and pretty uncomfortable.

I can't speak for other pickups as I've only ever had limited use of them.

But I spent 5weeks driving around the proper back country mountain towns/villages/mining communities in Peru last year.

3 of us, with stacks of gear, twin cab 4x4 hilux with the D4D (?) 3.0l 4pot TD engine. At sea level, enough power, and in 2wd handles like the average 4x4 chelsea tractor, nothing special, but even when badly loaded was stable enough to keep up with cars on pan america around the twisty bits. Gearing was a little ambitous though (more down to the extra massive wheels fitted to that one though), about 1700rpm at 60 mph lol

It was mildly tuned up on the engine dept. (NEEDS IT at high altitude otherwise it simply will not generate enough power to move the thing, even in low range!), was jacked up about 4" over standard, and had an internal roll cage and tower behind the cab for extra lights (needs it!).

Most of Peru is pretty rough road wise, but we were literally driving for days at a time on the surface of the moon, sometimes wise 2-400kg of equipment in the back + a few locals wanting a free lift**

**its the most comfortable way to ride is standing/squatting with bent knees hanging off the roll cage off back of twin cab as your right in centre of vehicle.

We found it was more than capable off road, locking difs would have been GREAT, and if they are an option, I would spring for them as even on loose gravel/ rocky river crossings its really really a requirement.

At high altitude (4000m+) the power drops off so much that on a cold morning, you need WOT and low range 1st or 2nd just to get any movement out of it. As it warms up (takes ages) you can eventually get into high range, but don't expect to be able to climb in anything other than 1st.

I think I WOULD have one as an everyday vehicle if I lived in the UK and had a genuine requirement for it. (I.E live on a farm with rough access), but if I didn't and just liked the scale of a pickup, I'd be looking at a Mitsu Animal pickup, as they are MUCH more suited to the road and a lot more refined on the driving side of things.

++ we got around 30-32mpg average over 2000km in Peru, about half of that on the Pan America @ 50-60mph unloaded, the other half mud plugging and rock bashing up mountains that make the alps look like telly tuby land.

ALso on the running cost front, if you are a regular vehicle abuser, it has the most rugged suspension out there (but not sophisticated in any way), and cheapest to replace.

That Duster looks alright!

Don't get a hilux, look what will happen 🙂

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At high altitude (4000m+) the power drops off

Isn't that true of all cars? I had some crappy Saturn big SUV in the USA which although overall crappy had a really nice 3.5l V8. Loads of power and torque at low altitudes, but even at 1500m I noticed a little less power; at 3000m or above it needed its nuts revved off to get anywhere.

Ive just sold a 2010 3.0 ltr invicable auto,& i can tell you unless you a specific job for one,abeit Farmer,Horses etc,do not buy one,the ride is bouncy & harsh,as its sprung to carry a ton,they're too long to park,they're not easy to park either full stop,fuel is 20/25 mpg,i am a very experienced driver,of many large & awkward vehicles,& they are a pig,no lock etc,& L200's are worse,had wanna them too,so tread carefully,if its a lifestyle vehicle you want,buy a VW Transporter,job done..

Its a major purchase you may live to regret !.

+1 the 4wd varients do have very poor steering lock (the one we did had buffers installed to prevent the much larger than std wheels/tyres fowling the archs & brake lines etc), and heavy!

the 4x4 one we had actually had softer springs and longer dampers than stock, as yes your right they are usually set up with the arse way high up the air so that when you have a 1t water cube on there + bunch of animal feed they actually ride properly, as lets face it, that is their intended use!

don simon - Member

I can't help thinking that many complaints are borne from trying to drive a 4X4 in the same manner as driving a sports car.

Exactly. You drive a car if you want creature conform. I will find out a bit more when I visit my friend in the jungle of Borneo in two months time but generally speaking for those off road use most prefer Hilux but there are some Land/Range Rover too but not common.

Another L200 owner here. Dreadful heap of crap. By far the worst thing I've owned. If I could get my money back it would be gone.

Isn't that true of all cars? I had some crappy Saturn big SUV in the USA which although overall crappy had a really nice 3.5l V8. Loads of power and torque at low altitudes, but even at 1500m I noticed a little less power; at 3000m or above it needed its nuts revved off to get anywhere.

Yes and no, it depends on the ECU. Naturally there's some reduction in power due to the fact that air is thinner so can only support combustion of a lower amount of fuel and with D's that changes slightly too. But early ECUs working on speed density calculations only checked ambient air pressure at start-up, driving to any high altitude cocks up the calculations. modern SD systems can constantly correct for atmospheric pressure, but most OEM petrol systems are flow-based and as such can identify the thinner air.

It was a pretty high tech engine - direct injection petrol. It was the same on the day we drove up to altitude as it was every subsequent day we started at altitude. I think the lambda sensor would cater for altitude changes, no?

Even if you do get the fuel right, you still can put less fuel in under WOT. The car drove okay when you were being gentle - you only noticed it when overtaking or climbing hills.

Carrying me on a day to day basis in relative comfort.
Carrying the bike and me on weekend camping expeditions.
Ocassional European trips to pick up stock, which is bulkier rather than heavy and ocassional trailer duties.
Not having to worry about getting stuck in the snow.
Keeping hold of my point free licence, too many speed cameras in this country.
Future: Off road camping trips to Spain/North Africa.
I used to commute 140km a day in one of these, so my eyes are quite open.

Personally I would be looking for the Newest and Lowest mileage 2.5TDi T4 Synchro Caravelle I could find.

It does all the above (better than the Hilux in my opinion)

Great to drive.
Eats European miles (I have done many Alps trips in one hit without a problem (one driver) and a few times to Poland and back from Calais, one my own in one day!)
Good on fuel.
Holds value well.
Loads of room for kit and people.
Can remove read triple seat if you want to carry a BIG load of kit and still carry 5 passengers.
Etc etc etc.

^^ yes but lower oxygen, a lot lower. With petrols, yes, it can be catered for up until a point. With diesel there is a glass ceiling, and when you go past it, you just get a tonne of extra diesel being thrown into engine, it doesn't burn (not enough oxygen to work with it) and then throws heaps of fuel out back end. And don't even try to rev it, you just get knock which wrecks the head.

Also on higher powered models, EGT's start to get lethal. Every time were climbing for more than 5/10mins straight (and anything required WOT) the stench of hot metal and burning under side protection.

Oh, we did have one breakdown, one of the cold side boost hoses went, leaving us with not enough power to actually move, so had to be recovered to next town, where they made one from a chinese truck fit with some epic sized turbo clips / jubilee clips

I think a turbo can compensate for altitude up to a point. Most turbos can put through more air than they are programmed to do, and I would expect the ecu would maintain boost by adjusting the vanes up until the thing's maxed out, then you'd see performance fall off quickly. Our Passat's been up to about 2000m I think, and I didn't notice anything.

I see what your saying Neal, but the Syncro needs to recognise its limitations. 🙁

To avoid anyone else having to waste 5 minutes of their time, that van does not end up rolling down a hill or doing anything else interesting.

Just like all of life you may just need to compromise. We needed a large 4x4 for towing a horse trailer ended up with a Nissan Murano, large, comfy, cheap (nobody wants a large petrol 4x4) and well spec'd. compromise for us was poor mpg but we got a good warranty from a nissan dealer, it is an 05 car so it falls outside those stupidly big road tax bands of newer cars. have a look they might appeal, but just make sure you save up all those 5p off a litre of fuel voucher!